EPTI don't intend to stray from the original point, that calling something economic imperialism cannot just be based on a hierarchy of economic powerhouses. It robs imperialism of meaning.
US Politics Mega-thread - Page 463
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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
I don't intend to stray from the original point, that calling something economic imperialism cannot just be based on a hierarchy of economic powerhouses. It robs imperialism of meaning. | ||
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sam!zdat
United States5559 Posts
the fact that lenin argued it doesn't invalidate it. In fact, it's rather obviously true. You must have export markets to be capitalist. In order to have secure export markets, you cannot be reclusive and isolationist. If you think something which has never existed could exist, lets hear your thinking, smartass edit: those institutions you mention produce a system which has a certain dynamical structure. That structure cannot exist in an isolationist state. Of course, I'm also talking to a man who thinks that unemploymentt is caused by the moral turpitude of individuals, so there may be limits to the progress we can make in this discussion | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
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sam!zdat
United States5559 Posts
I do like however how you put in the cyrrilic. Sends a cold war shiver down the spine. Nice touch Mr. D | ||
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JonnyBNoHo
United States6277 Posts
On September 21 2013 10:46 oneofthem wrote: empire is autocratic. what the u.s. has is, if you are talking about culture etc, is a sphere of influence. play some civ yo I've always preferred Alpha Centauri, esp. Alien Crossfire. Usually roll with Aki Zeta Five. Free Drones were pretty good too. Never could win with Morganites a kid. Can now as an adult. *sigh* Edit: @ Danglars below: thanks for that link, it was good to hear. | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
I wonder if the fact that Lenin argued it makes it a dummy, since according to you it was obvious in the first place. I am accustomed to any suggestion of welfare reform to be met with accusations of poor bashing. Keep drinking the Kool Aid that poorly designed aid can never encourage dependency. That's the current political reality in America. I already linked Jonny the state of useful reforms and you can review my thoughts on unemployment in the last three posts. | ||
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sam!zdat
United States5559 Posts
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
Frankly, the reasons for war weren't as homogenous economic as you make it out. Set down you "No Blood for Oil" sign and realize that we almost did military action in Syria just to help out some oppressed peoples. Hussein made Assad's atrocities look like a little dictator playing kind of the sandbox. War's a messy thing. Iraq isn't proof that capitalist economic policies directly result in imperialism. | ||
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sam!zdat
United States5559 Posts
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Sprouter
United States1724 Posts
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On September 21 2013 11:38 JonnyBNoHo wrote: I've always preferred Alpha Centauri, esp. Alien Crossfire. Usually roll with Aki Zeta Five. Free Drones were pretty good too. Never could win with Morganites a kid. Can now as an adult. *sigh* Edit: @ Danglars below: thanks for that link, it was good to hear. Who would've thought that someone like Jonny could have read news stories I don't see it in their current legislation. Maybe I'm missing something (if so point it out), but even if that's the case it means that they aren't communicating their intentions / plans well enough with the public. and not known what was in the bill? Listen to Ted Cruz talking about it, listen to others in the House of Reps and the Senate. Frankly, and pardon me, they did communicate it. There's some division in message, and clowns like Boehner and McConnell could do more to pound it home in multiple speeches. If you use the mainstream media as your only means to hear the Republican's plans, the message will be squelched. Obviously, if you had actually seen the legislation, you would've seen it in their current legislation. | ||
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WhiteDog
France8650 Posts
On September 21 2013 10:55 BioNova wrote: Mr. Krugman received his B.A. from Yale University in 1974 and his Ph.D. from MIT in 1977. Wut? I suppose suppose the next step is to slander where he graduated. Once again Try not to generalize. Economics is pretty specific, so the slander should be too. You know. More than a feeling? Also from the 70's So many people have come and gone Their faces fade as the years go by Yet I still recall as I wander on As clear as the sun in the summer sky It's more than a feeling More than a feeling!!! Krugman's work on international trade and economic geography is pretty brilliant and revigorating for economy as a "science" (trying to take into consideration history through the variables of the model for exemple). People who refuse to see his value as an economist are pretty blind or just plain ignorant imo. | ||
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BioNova
United States598 Posts
On September 22 2013 00:12 WhiteDog wrote: Krugman's work on international trade and economic geography is pretty brilliant and revigorating for economy as a "science" (trying to take into consideration history through the variables of the model for exemple). People who refuse to see his value as an economist are pretty blind or just plain ignorant imo. I directly focused my critic in that post on the assertion that we should not believe some old fogey from the 70's(obviously must have caveman views) who presents his work for profit. Is Krugman Mother Teresa? Bring me the best argument against Shadowstats methodology versus the 28ish some modifications made since the 70's to what it has become today. Chained CPI and all. Where we end up will be limbo. I have spent too many hours on my own reading both sides. Critics and complaints. Krugman doesn't help his cause by being a egocentric jerk who relies on browbeating and snarky remarks rather than laying it out in clear and comprehensible language. His mannerisms remind me less of a scientific doctor telling me I have cancer and more of a salesman trying finalize a sale. Aziz'onomics logic gaps are more infuriating(in a class warfare sense). The question on the entire subject matter boils down does one method perform better as in accuracy. The assertion that Mr. Williams is 'gaming' people with 'alternative" and entirely doctored information is on the accuser to prove. The best I have seen is it costs 175 dollars. Money that Mr. Williams will never get from me under any scenario despite my personal position, his data on inflation is more accurate. I must be ignorant. | ||
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DoubleReed
United States4130 Posts
On September 22 2013 01:28 BioNova wrote: I directly focused my critic in that post on the assertion that we should not believe some old fogey from the 70's(obviously must have caveman views) who presents his work for profit. Is Krugman Mother Teresa? Bring me the best argument against Shadowstats methodology versus the 28ish some modifications made since the 70's to what it has become today. Chained CPI and all. Where we end up will be limbo. I have spent too many hours on my own reading both sides. Critics and complaints. Krugman doesn't help his cause by being a egocentric jerk who relies on browbeating and snarky remarks rather than laying it out in clear and comprehensible language. His mannerisms remind me less of a scientific doctor telling me I have cancer and more of a salesman trying finalize a sale. Aziz'onomics logic gaps are more infuriating(in a class warfare sense). The question on the entire subject matter boils down does one method perform better as in accuracy. The assertion that Mr. Williams is 'gaming' people with 'alternative" and entirely doctored information is on the accuser to prove. The best I have seen is it costs 175 dollars. Money that Mr. Williams will never get from me under any scenario despite my personal position, his data on inflation is more accurate. I must be ignorant. Presents his work for profit? What are you talking about? He doesn't work at a think tank or anything. He has a column in the New York Times. Hell, he just wrote an article about how he doesn't have to worry about trying to get any further in his career: Just a personal reaction: I’ve known Larry for all our adult lives, and looking at this sad play I realize how lucky I am to have reached a place where I’m no longer in the rat race. Obviously I’m plenty combative, and in a way still ambitious too; I do track my Twitter followers, wonder how each column will do on the most-emailed list, and all that. But there are no promotions I’m seeking, no honors I desperately desire that I don’t already have. Nobody’s life feels from the inside the way it looks from the outside. But at least as far as career goes, I’m wonderfully relaxed: no more steps to climb, no more boxes to check. I just do what I feel I should, and try to have some fun along the way. I’m a very lucky guy. Your characterization of krugman is just plain bizarre. And your criticisms are downright petty. | ||
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WhiteDog
France8650 Posts
On September 22 2013 01:28 BioNova wrote: I directly focused my critic in that post on the assertion that we should not believe some old fogey from the 70's(obviously must have caveman views) who presents his work for profit. Is Krugman Mother Teresa? Bring me the best argument against Shadowstats methodology versus the 28ish some modifications made since the 70's to what it has become today. Chained CPI and all. Where we end up will be limbo. I have spent too many hours on my own reading both sides. Critics and complaints. Krugman doesn't help his cause by being a egocentric jerk who relies on browbeating and snarky remarks rather than laying it out in clear and comprehensible language. His mannerisms remind me less of a scientific doctor telling me I have cancer and more of a salesman trying finalize a sale. Aziz'onomics logic gaps are more infuriating(in a class warfare sense). The question on the entire subject matter boils down does one method perform better as in accuracy. The assertion that Mr. Williams is 'gaming' people with 'alternative" and entirely doctored information is on the accuser to prove. The best I have seen is it costs 175 dollars. Money that Mr. Williams will never get from me under any scenario despite my personal position, his data on inflation is more accurate. I must be ignorant. I would be pretty mad and agressive if I was Krugman and forced to argue with nutjobs, so his tone or his "mannerisms" are quite understandable. Focussing on the personnality of someone is the best way to evade the core of the discussion : is he wrong ? Also, I don't believe Krugman would ever use an argument that revolve around class warfare, he is too liberal for that - and I'm using the european definition of liberal. About the shadowstat guy, I personally don't really care : indicators are all imperfects. People never understand that, and oppositions on indicators always becomes oppositions between what is "right" and what is "wrong", while in reality they are oppositions between two different indicators and thus two differents imperfect perspectives on the world. The main problem with our current way of evluating inflation is that we take a certain number of products and evaluate their price (like always) but that the number of product has become so big and wide in nature that it mix up products with greatly inflated price in the last 20 years (vital products like food or the rent of an appartment) with product where the price deflated quite a lot in the last 10 years (mainly technological products such as gaming station, TVs, DVDs, etc.). In France, the INSEE gives a personnal simulator of the inflation rate, where you make your preference and it gives you "your" inflation rate. If I set it so that my personnal consumption is close to the poorest people (which means most of my budget on alimentation, housing) the felt inflation goes up from 0,9 % to 1,7 % for the last 12 month alone. That the indicator isn't perfect doesn't mean that the state necessarily changed the indicator to fit their liking. Personally, I believe the potential inflation has been greatly reduced by globalisation (since inflation doesn't touch one country anymore but split itself between numerous locations). I don't even believe we have control over our inflation level anymore - well not entirely at least - unless the FED decide to make some drastic chance in its policy. | ||
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aksfjh
United States4853 Posts
On September 22 2013 02:12 DoubleReed wrote: Presents his work for profit? What are you talking about? He doesn't work at a think tank or anything. He has a column in the New York Times. Hell, he just wrote an article about how he doesn't have to worry about trying to get any further in his career: Your characterization of krugman is just plain bizarre. And your criticisms are downright petty. You're trying to argue with somebody that can't spell and will ALWAYS tote the anti-government stat line. If there had been no changes in the methodology for inflation since the '70s, we'd certainly be hearing about how backwards and incompetent the government is. No doubt, we'd be shown to Shadowstats, where the TRUE numbers can be found (for only a small fee of $175 a year)! For a real kick with Shadowstats though, take a look at this chart: ![[image loading]](http://azizonomics.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/alt-cpi-home2-1.gif) Looks like they're not even using old methodology for calculating inflation, just adding some constant to the CPI numbers (somewhere around 2.5-3.0 percentage points). | ||
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sam!zdat
United States5559 Posts
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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farvacola
United States18832 Posts
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sam!zdat
United States5559 Posts
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