In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!
NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
On July 24 2016 13:28 Plansix wrote: It won't, because no one trusts that tabloid.
As I said, I understand the bias involved in documentaries and didn't go into watching this with a preemptive negative attitude towards Clinton. I also never read or watched things from this "tabloid", but the content is still adding to the already known corruption of the DNC.
Wat. I am sorry, but that is a ludicrous statement. You wear your biases out on your sleeve in this thread. Which is fine, everyone has a bias, but at least own it. Don't try to pretend to some kind of shallow objectivity to try to push whatever point you're trying to make.
I'm biased, no doubt about it. I'm also biased against propaganda pieces and documentaries too, so it kind of cancelled out. The facts still make her look really shady. Unless the facts presented were outright lies,I don't have the time to fact check everything in that documentary.
That's the virtue of spewing out a ton of lies in a short amount of time; something's bound to stick
On July 24 2016 13:28 Plansix wrote: It won't, because no one trusts that tabloid.
As I said, I understand the bias involved in documentaries and didn't go into watching this with a preemptive negative attitude towards Clinton. I also never read or watched things from this "tabloid", but the content is still adding to the already known corruption of the DNC.
Wat. I am sorry, but that is a ludicrous statement. You wear your biases out on your sleeve in this thread. Which is fine, everyone has a bias, but at least own it. Don't try to pretend to some kind of shallow objectivity to try to push whatever point you're trying to make.
I'm biased, no doubt about it. I'm also biased against propaganda pieces and documentaries too, so it kind of cancelled out. The facts still make her look really shady. Unless the facts presented were outright lies,I don't have the time to fact check everything in that documentary.
So you're saying that things you can't verify to be true make her look shady? Your bias against propaganda pieces isn't showing very strongly here lol
On July 24 2016 13:28 Plansix wrote: It won't, because no one trusts that tabloid.
As I said, I understand the bias involved in documentaries and didn't go into watching this with a preemptive negative attitude towards Clinton. I also never read or watched things from this "tabloid", but the content is still adding to the already known corruption of the DNC.
Wat. I am sorry, but that is a ludicrous statement. You wear your biases out on your sleeve in this thread. Which is fine, everyone has a bias, but at least own it. Don't try to pretend to some kind of shallow objectivity to try to push whatever point you're trying to make.
I'm biased, no doubt about it. I'm also biased against propaganda pieces and documentaries too, so it kind of cancelled out. The facts still make her look really shady. Unless the facts presented were outright lies,I don't have the time to fact check everything in that documentary.
So you're saying that things you can't verify to be true make her look shady? Your bias against propaganda pieces isn't showing very strongly here lol
Ofcourse you can. We built a legal system around that. Its the basis of any investigation. Reasonable doubt?
The discourse on immigration reform by the Republican party has fallen from grace. Not to mention Reagan literally saying "Rather than putting up a fence..." lmao.
On July 24 2016 22:44 Plansix wrote: "I know that source is not trustworthy, but I like what it says and some of it must be true. Please watch this and discuss."
"Wow, this is a pile of confirmed lies"
"Look, you can't expect me to fact check everything. The fact is it looks bad and I want to believe it"
- Election 2016
You are clearly an objective and reasonable voice in this thread. I should have known it was a pile of confirmed lies, and that you already fact checked the whole thing with objectivity in mind.
There is insufficient time available for everyone to fact check everything for themselves; so some level of filtering is necessary. Of course, if the filterers do a poor job, or people fail to select filters carefully; or there are simply several layers of filters, each with a small bias; you end up with a very inaccurate sense of things.
The discourse on immigration reform by the Republican party has fallen from grace. Not to mention Reagan literally saying "Rather than putting up a fence..." lmao.
This is how far the GOP has fallen. Reagan's FP and financial policy are shinning example of "at what cost". But on the issue like immigration, he was better than 99% of Republicans today.
Trump proposes extreme vetting of people coming even from European countries, but shows no such commitment to safety and security when it comes to mentally ill white males in the US. I guess he feels we only need to deal with the other tribe.
On July 24 2016 23:38 Doodsmack wrote: Trump proposes extreme vetting of people coming even from European countries, but shows no such commitment to safety and security when it comes to mentally ill white males in the US. I guess he feels we only need to deal with the other tribe.
Realistically, Trump needs to avoid blaming white men for anything and everything
Donald Told No Less Than 21 Fact Checked Proven Lies During His Acceptance Speech Thanks to the early leaking of Trump's speech transcript, it was easy for fact checkers to pre-debunk Donald Trump's acceptance speech lies.
Thanks to the early leaking of Trump’s speech transcript, it was easy for fact checkers to pre-debunk Donald Trump’s acceptance speech lies.
Trump Lie: President Obama has doubled our national debt to more than $19 trillion, and growing.
Fact : “The total federal debt is at $19 trillion. But most of it was amassed before Obama took office.” [PolitiFact, 7/19/16]
Trump Lie: In 2009, pre-Hillary, ISIS was not even on the map. Libya was cooperating. Egypt was peaceful. Iraq was seeing a reduction in violence. Iran was being choked by sanctions. Syria was under control.
Fact : “The roots of ISIS trace back to 2004, when Bush was president and before Clinton was Obama’s secretary of state.” [PolitiFact, 7/20/16]
Trump Lie: My opponent has called for a radical 550% increase in Syrian refugees on top of existing massive refugee flows coming into our country under President Obama. She proposes this despite the fact that there’s no way to screen these refugees in order to find out who they are or where they come from.
Fact : PolitiFact rated Donald Trump’s claim that there was “no system to vet” refugees “False.” [PolitiFact, 6/13/16]
Trump Lie: Of all my travels in this country, nothing has affected me more deeply than the time I have spent with the mothers and fathers who have lost their children to violence spilling across our border.
Fact: Washington Post Fact Checker: “Data on immigrants and crime are incomplete, but a range of studies show there is no evidence immigrants commit more crimes than native-born Americans.” [Washington Post, 7/8/15]
Trump Lie: While Hillary Clinton plans a massive tax increase, I have proposed the largest tax reduction of any candidate who has declared for the presidential race this year – Democrat or Republican. Middle-income Americans will experience profound relief, and taxes will be simplified for everyone.
Fact: Moody’s Analytics report: Donald Trump’s tax plan would mostly benefit those at the very top of the income distribution, and job losses resulting from his economic policies would most affect lower- and middle-income households. [Moody’s Analytics report, 6/20/16]
Trump Lie: When the FBI Director says that the Secretary of State was “extremely careless” and “negligent,” in handling our classified secrets, I also know that these terms are minor compared to what she actually did.
They were just used to save her from facing justice for her terrible crimes.
In fact, her single greatest accomplishment may be committing such an egregious crime and getting away with it – especially when others have paid so dearly.
Fact: FBI Director Comey: “There’s all kinds of folks watching this at home or being told, ‘well, lots of other cases are being prosecuted and she wasn’t.’ I want them to know that’s not true!” [FBI Director James Comey Testimony , 7/7/16]
Trump gave a speech of lies based on Republican conspiracies, conservative media tall tales, and Fox News. Trump played to the angry and frightened base of the Republican Party. His lies are only convincing to those who want to be fooled.
Republicans used their convention to begin their campaign to undermine Hillary Clinton’s potential presidency. Trump represents the ugliness of the right. Donald Trump has conned the right by telling them what they want to hear.
Facts have no place in the current Republican Party, and GOP voters have rewarded Trump’s superior disregard for truth with the party’s presidential nomination.
On July 24 2016 22:59 zlefin wrote: There is insufficient time available for everyone to fact check everything for themselves; so some level of filtering is necessary. Of course, if the filterers do a poor job, or people fail to select filters carefully; or there are simply several layers of filters, each with a small bias; you end up with a very inaccurate sense of things.
or you can post a crap source and be butthurt about it when people call you out on it.
Donald Told No Less Than 21 Fact Checked Proven Lies During His Acceptance Speech Thanks to the early leaking of Trump's speech transcript, it was easy for fact checkers to pre-debunk Donald Trump's acceptance speech lies.
Thanks to the early leaking of Trump’s speech transcript, it was easy for fact checkers to pre-debunk Donald Trump’s acceptance speech lies.
Trump Lie: President Obama has doubled our national debt to more than $19 trillion, and growing.
Fact : “The total federal debt is at $19 trillion. But most of it was amassed before Obama took office.” [PolitiFact, 7/19/16]
Trump Lie: In 2009, pre-Hillary, ISIS was not even on the map. Libya was cooperating. Egypt was peaceful. Iraq was seeing a reduction in violence. Iran was being choked by sanctions. Syria was under control.
Fact : “The roots of ISIS trace back to 2004, when Bush was president and before Clinton was Obama’s secretary of state.” [PolitiFact, 7/20/16]
Trump Lie: My opponent has called for a radical 550% increase in Syrian refugees on top of existing massive refugee flows coming into our country under President Obama. She proposes this despite the fact that there’s no way to screen these refugees in order to find out who they are or where they come from.
Fact : PolitiFact rated Donald Trump’s claim that there was “no system to vet” refugees “False.” [PolitiFact, 6/13/16]
Trump Lie: Of all my travels in this country, nothing has affected me more deeply than the time I have spent with the mothers and fathers who have lost their children to violence spilling across our border.
Fact: Washington Post Fact Checker: “Data on immigrants and crime are incomplete, but a range of studies show there is no evidence immigrants commit more crimes than native-born Americans.” [Washington Post, 7/8/15]
Trump Lie: While Hillary Clinton plans a massive tax increase, I have proposed the largest tax reduction of any candidate who has declared for the presidential race this year – Democrat or Republican. Middle-income Americans will experience profound relief, and taxes will be simplified for everyone.
Fact: Moody’s Analytics report: Donald Trump’s tax plan would mostly benefit those at the very top of the income distribution, and job losses resulting from his economic policies would most affect lower- and middle-income households. [Moody’s Analytics report, 6/20/16]
Trump Lie: When the FBI Director says that the Secretary of State was “extremely careless” and “negligent,” in handling our classified secrets, I also know that these terms are minor compared to what she actually did.
They were just used to save her from facing justice for her terrible crimes.
In fact, her single greatest accomplishment may be committing such an egregious crime and getting away with it – especially when others have paid so dearly.
Fact: FBI Director Comey: “There’s all kinds of folks watching this at home or being told, ‘well, lots of other cases are being prosecuted and she wasn’t.’ I want them to know that’s not true!” [FBI Director James Comey Testimony , 7/7/16]
Trump gave a speech of lies based on Republican conspiracies, conservative media tall tales, and Fox News. Trump played to the angry and frightened base of the Republican Party. His lies are only convincing to those who want to be fooled.
Republicans used their convention to begin their campaign to undermine Hillary Clinton’s potential presidency. Trump represents the ugliness of the right. Donald Trump has conned the right by telling them what they want to hear.
Facts have no place in the current Republican Party, and GOP voters have rewarded Trump’s superior disregard for truth with the party’s presidential nomination.
Donald Told No Less Than 21 Fact Checked Proven Lies During His Acceptance Speech Thanks to the early leaking of Trump's speech transcript, it was easy for fact checkers to pre-debunk Donald Trump's acceptance speech lies.
Thanks to the early leaking of Trump’s speech transcript, it was easy for fact checkers to pre-debunk Donald Trump’s acceptance speech lies.
Trump Lie: President Obama has doubled our national debt to more than $19 trillion, and growing.
Fact : “The total federal debt is at $19 trillion. But most of it was amassed before Obama took office.” [PolitiFact, 7/19/16]
Trump Lie: In 2009, pre-Hillary, ISIS was not even on the map. Libya was cooperating. Egypt was peaceful. Iraq was seeing a reduction in violence. Iran was being choked by sanctions. Syria was under control.
Fact : “The roots of ISIS trace back to 2004, when Bush was president and before Clinton was Obama’s secretary of state.” [PolitiFact, 7/20/16]
Trump Lie: My opponent has called for a radical 550% increase in Syrian refugees on top of existing massive refugee flows coming into our country under President Obama. She proposes this despite the fact that there’s no way to screen these refugees in order to find out who they are or where they come from.
Fact : PolitiFact rated Donald Trump’s claim that there was “no system to vet” refugees “False.” [PolitiFact, 6/13/16]
Trump Lie: Of all my travels in this country, nothing has affected me more deeply than the time I have spent with the mothers and fathers who have lost their children to violence spilling across our border.
Fact: Washington Post Fact Checker: “Data on immigrants and crime are incomplete, but a range of studies show there is no evidence immigrants commit more crimes than native-born Americans.” [Washington Post, 7/8/15]
Trump Lie: While Hillary Clinton plans a massive tax increase, I have proposed the largest tax reduction of any candidate who has declared for the presidential race this year – Democrat or Republican. Middle-income Americans will experience profound relief, and taxes will be simplified for everyone.
Fact: Moody’s Analytics report: Donald Trump’s tax plan would mostly benefit those at the very top of the income distribution, and job losses resulting from his economic policies would most affect lower- and middle-income households. [Moody’s Analytics report, 6/20/16]
Trump Lie: When the FBI Director says that the Secretary of State was “extremely careless” and “negligent,” in handling our classified secrets, I also know that these terms are minor compared to what she actually did.
They were just used to save her from facing justice for her terrible crimes.
In fact, her single greatest accomplishment may be committing such an egregious crime and getting away with it – especially when others have paid so dearly.
Fact: FBI Director Comey: “There’s all kinds of folks watching this at home or being told, ‘well, lots of other cases are being prosecuted and she wasn’t.’ I want them to know that’s not true!” [FBI Director James Comey Testimony , 7/7/16]
Trump gave a speech of lies based on Republican conspiracies, conservative media tall tales, and Fox News. Trump played to the angry and frightened base of the Republican Party. His lies are only convincing to those who want to be fooled.
Republicans used their convention to begin their campaign to undermine Hillary Clinton’s potential presidency. Trump represents the ugliness of the right. Donald Trump has conned the right by telling them what they want to hear.
Facts have no place in the current Republican Party, and GOP voters have rewarded Trump’s superior disregard for truth with the party’s presidential nomination.
Some of these are kind of silly...the bolded one in particular.
How do you "fact check" how a person states they were emotionally affected by an event like that? How do crime statistics in anyway prove/disprove the statement...
I concur with chewbacca; some of those are unsound fact-checks; and some are a bit iffy. And some are fully correct. I'd have preferred a fact-checker to be more thorough and careful about their claims. I know I would if I were in the fact-checking business.
The discourse on immigration reform by the Republican party has fallen from grace. Not to mention Reagan literally saying "Rather than putting up a fence..." lmao.
The immigration situation is completely different today then it was back then. Apples and oranges.
The discourse on immigration reform by the Republican party has fallen from grace. Not to mention Reagan literally saying "Rather than putting up a fence..." lmao.
The immigration situation is completely different today then it was back then. Apples and oranges.
What about the immigration situation is so different that Republicans should change their message from inclusivity and paths to citizenship to fear and hate and the idea that they're bad people?
On July 24 2016 23:40 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: On the subject of fact-checking...
Donald Told No Less Than 21 Fact Checked Proven Lies During His Acceptance Speech Thanks to the early leaking of Trump's speech transcript, it was easy for fact checkers to pre-debunk Donald Trump's acceptance speech lies.
Thanks to the early leaking of Trump’s speech transcript, it was easy for fact checkers to pre-debunk Donald Trump’s acceptance speech lies.
Trump Lie: President Obama has doubled our national debt to more than $19 trillion, and growing.
Fact : “The total federal debt is at $19 trillion. But most of it was amassed before Obama took office.” [PolitiFact, 7/19/16]
Trump Lie: In 2009, pre-Hillary, ISIS was not even on the map. Libya was cooperating. Egypt was peaceful. Iraq was seeing a reduction in violence. Iran was being choked by sanctions. Syria was under control.
Fact : “The roots of ISIS trace back to 2004, when Bush was president and before Clinton was Obama’s secretary of state.” [PolitiFact, 7/20/16]
Trump Lie: My opponent has called for a radical 550% increase in Syrian refugees on top of existing massive refugee flows coming into our country under President Obama. She proposes this despite the fact that there’s no way to screen these refugees in order to find out who they are or where they come from.
Fact : PolitiFact rated Donald Trump’s claim that there was “no system to vet” refugees “False.” [PolitiFact, 6/13/16]
Trump Lie: Of all my travels in this country, nothing has affected me more deeply than the time I have spent with the mothers and fathers who have lost their children to violence spilling across our border.
Fact: Washington Post Fact Checker: “Data on immigrants and crime are incomplete, but a range of studies show there is no evidence immigrants commit more crimes than native-born Americans.” [Washington Post, 7/8/15]
Trump Lie: While Hillary Clinton plans a massive tax increase, I have proposed the largest tax reduction of any candidate who has declared for the presidential race this year – Democrat or Republican. Middle-income Americans will experience profound relief, and taxes will be simplified for everyone.
Fact: Moody’s Analytics report: Donald Trump’s tax plan would mostly benefit those at the very top of the income distribution, and job losses resulting from his economic policies would most affect lower- and middle-income households. [Moody’s Analytics report, 6/20/16]
Trump Lie: When the FBI Director says that the Secretary of State was “extremely careless” and “negligent,” in handling our classified secrets, I also know that these terms are minor compared to what she actually did.
They were just used to save her from facing justice for her terrible crimes.
In fact, her single greatest accomplishment may be committing such an egregious crime and getting away with it – especially when others have paid so dearly.
Fact: FBI Director Comey: “There’s all kinds of folks watching this at home or being told, ‘well, lots of other cases are being prosecuted and she wasn’t.’ I want them to know that’s not true!” [FBI Director James Comey Testimony , 7/7/16]
Trump gave a speech of lies based on Republican conspiracies, conservative media tall tales, and Fox News. Trump played to the angry and frightened base of the Republican Party. His lies are only convincing to those who want to be fooled.
Republicans used their convention to begin their campaign to undermine Hillary Clinton’s potential presidency. Trump represents the ugliness of the right. Donald Trump has conned the right by telling them what they want to hear.
Facts have no place in the current Republican Party, and GOP voters have rewarded Trump’s superior disregard for truth with the party’s presidential nomination.
Some of these are kind of silly...the bolded one in particular.
How do you "fact check" how a person states they were emotionally affected by an event like that? How do crime statistics in anyway prove/disprove the statement...
I'm guessing that that particular fact check was more aimed as a response to Trump's focusing on the "across our border" part, implying that that violence is disproportionately higher/ stronger/ worse with immigrants than with native-born Americans (as in, why are you focusing only on the immigrant violence, Trump? Surely all families who have experienced tragedy- regardless of the nationality of the assailant- should affect you just as deeply?)
EPT
