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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
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SK.Testie
Canada11084 Posts
"It's controversial". You will literally pay more just in damages on how much crime happens due to illegals and welfare than you will in the wall alone. "It's controversial". The cost of crime. Of which, illegals are highly complicit in especially with gangs making up 60% of some them like the 18th street gang. The cost of crime Germany greeting all the genders... now with subtitles! + Show Spoiler + | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23762 Posts
On June 11 2016 04:54 TheTenthDoc wrote: Testie already posted that in this thread. There's nothing in there about a border-long wall, nor is there anything about mass deportation. Those are the most controversial immigration positions Trump has. Unless you think the left's current position is that we shouldn't have borders. Which is not at all what the position of the left is. I agree that the mass deportation part of Trump's wall is the worst "solution" proposed by any leading figure, but it is pretty funny Hillary's campaign is based on removing "barriers" but her border policy quite literally advocates for placing "barriers" in peoples way. Also the whole sending children to almost certain death in order to send a message to their parents is not a whole lot better than Trump's mass deportation fantasy. We seriously just need to tear down the statue of liberty, she may stand as the most famous monument to mixed messages in American history. | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
On June 11 2016 04:54 TheTenthDoc wrote: Testie already posted that in this thread. There's nothing in there about a border-long wall, nor is there anything about mass deportation. Those are the most controversial immigration positions Trump has. Unless you think the left's current position is that we shouldn't have borders. Which is not at all what the position of the left is. Well there was the mass deportation of 11+ million some of may be legal, the setting up of camps for Muslims like those of Japanese Americans during WWII... One does not have to claim it as policy when he mentions it and his base who expect it of his administration. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On June 11 2016 04:54 NukeD wrote: Ooooh burned. Cant wait for Plansix's response. Trump is a racist asshole that defrauds the poor by offering them fake degrees and tells them to put the charges on their credit card? That number was inflated, but Trump is a flaming pile of garbage. | ||
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TheTenthDoc
United States9561 Posts
On June 11 2016 04:58 GreenHorizons wrote: I agree that the mass deportation part of Trump's wall is the worst "solution" proposed by any leading figure, but it is pretty funny Hillary's campaign is based on removing "barriers" but her border policy quite literally advocates for placing "barriers" in peoples way. Also the whole sending children to almost certain death in order to send a message to their parents is not a whole lot better than Trump's mass deportation fantasy. I guess it's funny from the perspective that barriers can mean two different things. But it's perfectly reasonable to facilitate paths to citizenship for people both inside and outside the U.S. while simultaneously advocating localized obstacles to unauthorized entry-in fact, that's really the most logical solution to the problem. Also, the video is so transparently edited and hacked together that I wouldn't interpret her final bit as saying all parents who commit crimes and their children should be deported. Hilariously hacked together, actually, given how often his supporters say Trump is taken out of context. | ||
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SK.Testie
Canada11084 Posts
On June 11 2016 05:00 Plansix wrote: Trump is a racist asshole that defrauds the poor by offering them fake degrees and tells them to put the charges on their credit card? That number was inflated, but Trump is a flaming pile of garbage. Hillary Clinton is going to kill far more people than Trump (and has!) Trump's the bad guy for saying mean or suspect things but not actually hurting anyone. I dunno, one of the candidates has actual blood on their hands. When you say racist, you're implying you care about people. Considering more people will die under Hillary than Trump, you clearly don't give a shit. | ||
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NukeD
Croatia1612 Posts
On June 11 2016 05:00 Plansix wrote: Trump is a racist asshole that defrauds the poor by offering them fake degrees and tells them to put the charges on their credit card? That number was inflated, but Trump is a flaming pile of garbage. Ya he sucks. So does Hillary. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23762 Posts
On June 11 2016 05:00 Plansix wrote: Trump is a racist asshole that defrauds the poor by offering them fake degrees and tells them to put the charges on their credit card? That number was inflated, but Trump is a flaming pile of garbage. And Hillary a travel sized bag of flaming garbage. It's really a choice between convenience and volume. Gotta love America giving us a choice between the two least liked/trusted candidates to run since modern polling. On June 11 2016 05:02 TheTenthDoc wrote: I guess it's funny from the perspective that barriers can mean two different things. But it's perfectly reasonable to facilitate paths to citizenship for people both inside and outside the U.S. while simultaneously advocating localized obstacles to unauthorized entry-in fact, that's really the most logical solution to the problem. Also, the video is so transparently edited and hacked together that I wouldn't interpret her final bit as saying all parents who commit crimes and their children should be deported. Hilariously hacked together, actually, given how often his supporters say Trump is taken out of context. The "barriers" thing is just a poor choice of rhetoric and planning. The deporting people I wasn't taking from the video, she said she would deport children into what are basically warzones to send a message to their parents (that escape to America isn't an option). Hence why she and Trump should both be campaigning on tearing down the statue of liberty. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
I am not the biggest fan. But I have voted for people I am not huge fans of before and I will do it again. Elections are not birthdays, its not all about getting exactly what I want. Edit: GH, your opinion has literally zero baring on my voting decisions and likely never will. | ||
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Surth
Germany456 Posts
On June 11 2016 04:29 SK.Testie wrote: "Shut up, I know better than you who lives there." Oh really? On that topic, please stop posting AfD videos, its embarassing us in front of the other countries. :X Also, your continued use of the word "nerf" in the context of economics is almost as great as when you started raving about commies a few days ago. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15742 Posts
On June 11 2016 05:03 GreenHorizons wrote: And Hillary a travel sized bag of flaming garbage. It's really a choice between convenience and volume. Gotta love America giving us a choice between the two least liked/trusted candidates to run since modern polling. If you want, we can get married so you can enjoy some Trudeau  My dual citizenship has helped make this election less painful for me. | ||
KwarK
United States43746 Posts
On June 11 2016 05:02 SK.Testie wrote: Hillary Clinton is going to kill far more people than Trump (and has!) Trump's the bad guy for saying mean or suspect things but not actually hurting anyone. I dunno, one of the candidates has actual blood on their hands. When you say racist, you're implying you care about people. Considering more people will die under Hillary than Trump, you clearly don't give a shit. And that is how you go full Benghazi. | ||
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biology]major
United States2253 Posts
On June 11 2016 04:48 Nyxisto wrote: You think being able to sum your policies up in a tweet is a good thing? "make deals not enemies" wtf does this even mean? Simple and honest is better than complicated bs. One of the most important character traits in any leader is integrity. The person who is what they say/think/feel. HRC has been shown to flip flop, to lie, and obfuscate truths to further her agenda: which I doubt has anything to do with a vision for the country but rather instead to become the first woman president of the USA. Her massive ego (Just look at the number of time's she says 'I' any time she speaks vs 'we') and duplicitous nature makes me reject any of her policies or notions outright. It does not matter what she says, a person without character cannot be trusted. So when you guys go into these lengthy discussions on her specific policies or stances, I fail to the see the point of even going that far and analyzing it because I have 0 understanding of her true intentions. Trump may say outlandish/brutish and say incoherent things a lot, but at least it seems that he is what we see. He is himself, very similar to Bernie. So I will always take a candidate I trust who may not be ideal vs someone who is just an empty shell running to be the first woman president. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On June 11 2016 05:11 biology]major wrote: Simple and honest is better than complicated bs. One of the most important character traits in any leader is integrity. The person who is what they say/think/feel. HRC has been shown to flip flop, to lie, and obfuscate truths to further her agenda: which I doubt has anything to do with a vision for the country but rather instead to become the first woman president of the USA. Her massive ego (Just look at the number of time's she says 'I' any time she speaks vs 'we') and duplicitous nature makes me reject any of her policies or notions outright. It does not matter what she says, a person without character cannot be trusted. So when you guys go into these lengthy discussions on her specific policies or stances, I fail to the see the point of even going that far and analyzing it because I have 0 understanding of her true intentions. Trump may say outlandish/brutish and say incoherent things a lot, but at least it seems that he is what we see. He is himself, very similar to Bernie. So I will always take a candidate I trust who may not be ideal vs someone who is just an empty shell running to be the first woman president. This right here is how W. Bush got elected. A simple man who didn’t cover complicate issues with complex ideas. You knew what you were getting and could understand him. All terrible traits for a President, it turned out. | ||
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NukeD
Croatia1612 Posts
On June 11 2016 05:07 Surth wrote: On that topic, please stop posting AfD videos, its embarassing us in front of the other countries. :X Also, your continued use of the word "nerf" in the context of economics is almost as great as when you started raving about commies a few days ago. Why? I tought that video was awesome. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22158 Posts
On June 11 2016 05:11 biology]major wrote: Simple and honest is better than complicated bs. One of the most important character traits in any leader is integrity. The person who is what they say/think/feel. HRC has been shown to flip flop, to lie, and obfuscate truths to further her agenda: which I doubt has anything to do with a vision for the country but rather instead to become the first woman president of the USA. Her massive ego (Just look at the number of time's she says 'I' any time she speaks vs 'we') and duplicitous nature makes me reject any of her policies or notions outright. It does not matter what she says, a person without character cannot be trusted. So when you guys go into these lengthy discussions on her specific policies or stances, I fail to the see the point of even going that far and analyzing it because I have 0 understanding of her true intentions. Trump may say outlandish/brutish and say incoherent things a lot, but at least it seems that he is what we see. He is himself, very similar to Bernie. So I will always take a candidate I trust who may not be ideal vs someone who is just an empty shell running to be the first woman president. Yes Trump is indeed himself. A shameless liar racist misogynist bigot. | ||
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KwarK
United States43746 Posts
On June 11 2016 05:11 biology]major wrote: Simple and honest is better than complicated bs. One of the most important character traits in any leader is integrity. The person who is what they say/think/feel. HRC has been shown to flip flop, to lie, and obfuscate truths to further her agenda: which I doubt has anything to do with a vision for the country but rather instead to become the first woman president of the USA. Her massive ego (Just look at the number of time's she says 'I' any time she speaks vs 'we') and duplicitous nature makes me reject any of her policies or notions outright. It does not matter what she says, a person without character cannot be trusted. So when you guys go into these lengthy discussions on her specific policies or stances, I fail to the see the point of even going that far and analyzing it because I have 0 understanding of her true intentions. Trump may say outlandish/brutish and say incoherent things a lot, but at least it seems that he is what we see. He is himself, very similar to Bernie. So I will always take a candidate I trust who may not be ideal vs someone who is just an empty shell running to be the first woman president. Firstly, Hillary has policies. Raising the Federal minimum wage for one which is long overdue given how much the purchasing power of the minimum wage has declined over time. Secondly, why is "well we know what we're getting" a good thing by itself. You could apply that argument to "better the shit sandwich than the mystery sandwich which we've seen being consumed for the last 30 years". Now you might think Trump isn't a shit sandwich but if so, make that argument. But when other people think that he is a shit sandwich you can't address their concerns by going "but at least we know shit is in the sandwich, what about Hillary, nobody knows what's in that sandwich". Shit is still shit. Thirdly, Hillary is a career politician. She's been voting on shit for years, speaking on shit for years, how the hell is she an unknown? At a certain point it becomes your fault for not paying attention and that point was probably around 1993 when she became First Lady. | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
there are some places with highly kleptocratic marriage of political power with economic power, and these places have gained in global economic weight. if this trend continues the benign sort of liberal capitalism of the u.s. may be increasingly replaced by a value system that sees nothing wrong with power and corruption, but celebrate these values adn form foreign policy alliances in preservation of the class interest of the kleptocratic elite. russian security mobsters, chinese princelings, various dictator scions and arab princes etc. these people are getting more powerful and increasingly coordinated in preserving and expanding their values upon the world. there is not insubstantial import of this value system to the west. this import of values is really facilitated in two ways. the personal wealth of kleptocratic elites of the developing world money laundering their wealth in western real estate and businesses, and the increasing competitiveness and importance of businesses with connection to these states. fighting against this creeping feudalism is pretty important and there is no way in hell trump would be up for it. he is precisely the wrong guy. hillary on the other hand has been a consistent advocate for government transparency, although taking some personal steps to transgress that value. at the end of the day, it's the laws on the books that matter, and i think she would be able to prosecute a plan of building global transparency, continuing the effort of the current administration. | ||
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
On June 11 2016 05:11 biology]major wrote: Simple and honest is better than complicated bs. One of the most important character traits in any leader is integrity. The person who is what they say/think/feel. HRC has been shown to flip flop, to lie, and obfuscate truths to further her agenda: which I doubt has anything to do with a vision for the country but rather instead to become the first woman president of the USA. Her massive ego (Just look at the number of time's she says 'I' any time she speaks vs 'we') and duplicitous nature makes me reject any of her policies or notions outright. It does not matter what she says, a person without character cannot be trusted. So when you guys go into these lengthy discussions on her specific policies or stances, I fail to the see the point of even going that far and analyzing it because I have 0 understanding of her true intentions. Trump may say outlandish/brutish and say incoherent things a lot, but at least it seems that he is what we see. He is himself, very similar to Bernie. So I will always take a candidate I trust who may not be ideal vs someone who is just an empty shell running to be the first woman president. Everybody's senile uncle says whatever is on his mind at the time, that doesn't mean that I'd trust him running a nation. The whole lying thing is completely overplayed. Politicians and diplomats lie all the time, often for good reason. What's the big deal? Trump is bullshitting so hard that he isn't even aware that he's not telling the truth. Trump's followers don't have a preference for honesty, they just like the bs that Trump is feeding them better than anybody else's. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15742 Posts
On June 11 2016 05:13 Plansix wrote: This right here is how W. Bush got elected. A simple man who didn’t cover complicate issues with complex ideas. You knew what you were getting and could understand him. All terrible traits for a President, it turned out. What I think is most interesting is that these people want a president who is willing to make the world seem simple. They want someone who makes them feel like they are just as in the know as is necessary. They want someone who confirms the fact that they "understand things clearly enough". EDIT: If we were to use transistor physics/fabrication as an example, Trump declares that he will increase computing by making transistors faster. When asked how, he says our physicists/EE/Chemists/MechE/Mathematicians make things seem more complicated than it really is and that someone should step up and just make a better material. Why are we still using Si when we can get higher carrier mobility using other materials? Trump realizes how stupid we are! | ||
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