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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
On June 08 2016 07:00 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2016 06:32 Doodsmack wrote:On June 08 2016 06:24 oBlade wrote:On June 08 2016 06:06 Doodsmack wrote:On June 08 2016 05:47 josephmcjoe wrote:On June 08 2016 05:29 Doodsmack wrote:On June 08 2016 04:02 SK.Testie wrote:Bad La Raza! Bad! Again! MSM: They have no connection! oh shit. They do but surely it's meaningless! + Show Spoiler + Trump's argument is not concerned with La Raza (even if his surrogates or spokeswoman brought up La Raza after the fact - "only Trump speaks for Trump", as he says). His argument is very simple, the judge is Mexican and therefore biased against Trump. Which I guess is an admission that Mexican voters will be, too. On the plus side, if it weren't for Testie this thread would probably have about 1,000 less pages. It's all about that mischievous fun though  . I too think it's pretty simple, but not even close to your take. The judge belongs to group called the Hispanic National Bar Association that called for a national boycott of Trump's various enterprises in 2015. Trump didn't feel he could get a fair shake from this judge, and he said so. Trump's own stated reasoning does not involve any groups the judge belongs to. His stated reasoning is actually that the judge is Mexican, and therefore biased due to Trump's wall plan. That's it, it's straight from Trump's mouth. Here he is mentioning it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDxlMelzl10#t=3m34sHere's the call for boycott that guy was talking about: http://us4.campaign-archive2.com/?u=df9a27c10b6d6ba38ba001440&id=f8a4a02241&e=cd8fc1ccd9 Watch that video starting at 5:08. Also starting at 6:45 LOL. Why is he talking about ethnicity? Why not just mention the groups? Trump's first and main argument is that because of the judge's ethnicity, he's biased due to Trump's wall plan. And that argument is part of the video you posted. + Show Spoiler +4:43 - 5:08 in this one It's explicit and complete - because of the ethnicity and my wall plan, there's bias. Look, you said Trump wasn't talking about the groups, that's what I mainly wanted to point out. Why talk about ethnicity? Because that's what the groups are based around. To use an accessible example, the KKK is pretty clear what race they're about. Being white seems to factor into it. What he's saying goes like this 1) It seems like I'm being untreated unfairly in the case, which suggests bias on the part of the judge, so 2) What would explain that... probably the judge's background, including his connections and how he feels about Trump's politics. The argument is not 1) Look, it's someone with the wrong skin color, so 2) That means he can never be a true American or do his job. The way you can tell is when he's asked about whether a Muslim judge would be biased, he says "it's possible." Right? I hardly think it's a less than 1 in a million shot that the judge could have some kind of bias. I doubt it meets any legal standard for recusal, and that's completely normal; it's not something I'm worried about (all the "woe is me" rich people still have roofs over their heads). But the hysterical reaction from people like this is so unfathomable is what's most interesting.
"We're building a wall. He's a Mexican. We're building a wall between here and Mexico." That's from your video and it does not have to do with any groups. At the very least, it is one line of reasoning being used by Trump (and at first it was the only one). Which is to say, Trump is a racist.
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On June 08 2016 09:12 Doodsmack wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2016 07:00 oBlade wrote:On June 08 2016 06:32 Doodsmack wrote:On June 08 2016 06:24 oBlade wrote:On June 08 2016 06:06 Doodsmack wrote:On June 08 2016 05:47 josephmcjoe wrote:On June 08 2016 05:29 Doodsmack wrote:On June 08 2016 04:02 SK.Testie wrote:Bad La Raza! Bad! Again! MSM: They have no connection! oh shit. They do but surely it's meaningless! + Show Spoiler + Trump's argument is not concerned with La Raza (even if his surrogates or spokeswoman brought up La Raza after the fact - "only Trump speaks for Trump", as he says). His argument is very simple, the judge is Mexican and therefore biased against Trump. Which I guess is an admission that Mexican voters will be, too. On the plus side, if it weren't for Testie this thread would probably have about 1,000 less pages. It's all about that mischievous fun though . I too think it's pretty simple, but not even close to your take. The judge belongs to group called the Hispanic National Bar Association that called for a national boycott of Trump's various enterprises in 2015. Trump didn't feel he could get a fair shake from this judge, and he said so. Trump's own stated reasoning does not involve any groups the judge belongs to. His stated reasoning is actually that the judge is Mexican, and therefore biased due to Trump's wall plan. That's it, it's straight from Trump's mouth. Here he is mentioning it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDxlMelzl10#t=3m34sHere's the call for boycott that guy was talking about: http://us4.campaign-archive2.com/?u=df9a27c10b6d6ba38ba001440&id=f8a4a02241&e=cd8fc1ccd9 Watch that video starting at 5:08. Also starting at 6:45 LOL. Why is he talking about ethnicity? Why not just mention the groups? Trump's first and main argument is that because of the judge's ethnicity, he's biased due to Trump's wall plan. And that argument is part of the video you posted. + Show Spoiler +https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJ76-WfCkxY 4:43 - 5:08 in this one It's explicit and complete - because of the ethnicity and my wall plan, there's bias. Look, you said Trump wasn't talking about the groups, that's what I mainly wanted to point out. Why talk about ethnicity? Because that's what the groups are based around. To use an accessible example, the KKK is pretty clear what race they're about. Being white seems to factor into it. What he's saying goes like this 1) It seems like I'm being untreated unfairly in the case, which suggests bias on the part of the judge, so 2) What would explain that... probably the judge's background, including his connections and how he feels about Trump's politics. The argument is not 1) Look, it's someone with the wrong skin color, so 2) That means he can never be a true American or do his job. The way you can tell is when he's asked about whether a Muslim judge would be biased, he says "it's possible." Right? I hardly think it's a less than 1 in a million shot that the judge could have some kind of bias. I doubt it meets any legal standard for recusal, and that's completely normal; it's not something I'm worried about (all the "woe is me" rich people still have roofs over their heads). But the hysterical reaction from people like this is so unfathomable is what's most interesting. "We're building a wall. He's a Mexican. We're building a wall between here and Mexico." That's from your video and it does not have to do with any groups. At the very least, it is one line of reasoning being used by Trump (and at first it was the only one). Which is to say, Trump is a racist.
Jake Jake.. are you ready ?
Im building a wall.. A walll... hes mexican... Im building a walllll...
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representative Louis Gohmert of texas is an ignorant asshole. (observation of him on cspan)
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United States7226 Posts
On June 08 2016 08:59 kwizach wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2016 08:49 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On June 08 2016 08:40 Rebs wrote:On June 08 2016 08:37 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On June 08 2016 08:30 KwarK wrote:On June 08 2016 08:14 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On June 08 2016 08:05 KwarK wrote:On June 08 2016 08:02 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On June 08 2016 07:58 KwarK wrote:On June 08 2016 07:57 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
[quote]
Every white male is a racist to the left That's not how it works, only the ones who say and do racist things are. He got called a racist for saying we should halt immigration from muslims. They just want to make everything about race when it has nothing to do with race it has to do with facts and national security. I honestly think race-baiting is a bigger problem in the west at this point than actual racism. You do understand that your argument was that "the left call all white males racist, that means that if a white male is called a racist by the left then no matter what he has said or done, he must not be racist", right? An argument that incidentally also exonerates Hitler. Now I'm not saying that Trump is Hitler, just that maybe instead of going "the left calls all white males racist" and dismissing it based on that, you should actually look at what Trump has said and done and base the decision upon that. Because otherwise we have to dismiss a lot of charges of racism and some of them will cover racists, like Hitler, and Trump. I have never made that conclusion. I'm sure some whites are dirty racists in our country but widespread or dangerous? I think not. Western white countries are literally the least racist countries in the world and that's not a racist thing to say that's a fact. How many refugees has the West taken in just from this Syrian conflict compared to actual Middle-Eastern countries like Saudi-Arabia or Bahrain or UAE? The west is so anti-racist places like the UK and Germany are literally passing authoritarian laws to censor any sort of criticism of immigration because they're too afraid of 'looking racist'. Nowhere else in the world would you get the amount of humanitarian aid and tolerance shown by Western countries. The whole 'radical conservative backwards racist conservative' hoax is literally white guilt indoctrination. You're right, the liberal West is far more liberal than the rest of the world. But that's irrelevant to what you said. You responded to accusations of Trump being a racist by saying that the left thinks all white males are racists. That's enough to respond to an accusation rooted purely in his gender and ethnicity but people aren't calling him a racist because of that, they're calling him a racist because of all the racist things he says and does. Also I think looking at Saudi Arabia and saying "why should we do more than them?" is pretty silly. It comes down to "let's find the worst people we can so we can feel okay when we're as bad as they are". Just because someone isn't the worst doesn't mean they can't do better. I do not literally believe every leftist believes that every white male is a racist. I am sorry I gave that impression. I was bitterly mocking his conclusion that 'trump's a racist everyone has always known he was a racist' as if it's matter-of-fact. I simply disagree with the notion that Trump should be called a racist or sexist for the things he has said this election cycle. It's just racist scandal after racist scandal from the media and when you look at the actual things he says versus how the media portrays him as 'literally' hitler, it's no wonder he won the republican primary. People are fed up with this authoritarian political correct bullshit trying to police people. Yes I agree bigotry and actual racism and actual sexism and actual homophobia are all very terrible things so I am somewhat understanding of the passion with which the 'progressive left' wants to stamp them out. But the war is over we won it's pretty much dead in the West. Where oppression like this isn't dead is in places ruled by Islamic Law where you ACTUALLY get murdered for dissenting beliefs/behaviors. Trump takes some controversial positions on mexican illegal immigration. Is it nice to deport all the illegal immigrants back to their home country away from our richer welfare state? No. But is it racist? No. Is it racist to point out? No. The MSM would have you believe it is though. It is racist to say that a person by virtue of his ethnicity (and no other evidence) is not doing his sworn duty correctly. It is racist to question that the President of the United States by virtue of his heritage and no other evidence is not an American citizen. Yes it is racist to suggest that. I do not believe that is what Trump did . He has clearly stated motivations for believing that the trial was being conducted unfairly and offered the judge's 'perspective' or 'race' as a possible motivator for why it might be unfair. The organization the judge is a part of clearly indicates he has some stake in Trump's success or not and that his judgment of this trial will directly affect that success. Is that still controversial? Yes. Is it as simple as him judging the judge as being incapable due to his race? No. What narrative is the media selling? You guess How can you possibly still be pushing a narrative that is flat-out false at this point in the discussion? Trump did not mention the organization the judge is a part of to justify his position (an organization which by the way still in no way at all supports Trump's assertion). The organization was initially brought up by other parties, not by Trump. Stop mentioning it to explain Trump's reasoning. Trump made his reasoning explicit in several interviews. The reason why the judge was unfair to him was, in his eyes, that: 1. The judge was "Mexican" 2. Trump supports building a wall at the border with Mexico 3. Therefore, the judge is biased against him That's it. That's the extent of Trump's reasoning. He is unambiguously pushing the idea that because of the judge's ethnicity, he cannot be objective about Trump (due to Trump advocating for the construction of the border wall).
I'm not going to fight you on your worst-possible-interpretation of what he said.
You keep believing what fits your narrative to support he is Hitler 2.0.
Go ahead and cite this interpretation as evidence to support it. I'll chalk it up to cognitive bias.
Trump's by no means a perfect candidate but I genuinely do not believe he is a dangerous xenophobic racist who hates all mexicans and muslims. I think that's absurd.
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United States7226 Posts
On June 08 2016 09:02 CannonsNCarriers wrote:Trump just totally walked back his whole statements. That is an admission he was wrong previously. Thus, your collective efforts to justify his old statements have been invalidated by the man himself. "I do not feel that one’s heritage makes them incapable of being impartial, but, based on the rulings that I have received in the Trump University civil case, I feel justified in questioning whether I am receiving a fair trial." http://qz.com/701711/watch-donald-trump-simultaneously-walk-back-and-double-down-on-his-racist-comments/A profile in cowardice.
That is how you should have interpreted what he said to begin with.
So many people here would benefit from application of the 'principle of charity' in judgment of the candidates this election. It's a shame people just one to pick one side as a hero and the other as an evil villain and take the worst meaning possible from everything they say and do.
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On June 08 2016 09:11 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2016 09:04 Gorsameth wrote:On June 08 2016 08:58 oBlade wrote:On June 08 2016 08:53 Gorsameth wrote:On June 08 2016 08:49 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On June 08 2016 08:40 Rebs wrote:On June 08 2016 08:37 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On June 08 2016 08:30 KwarK wrote:On June 08 2016 08:14 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On June 08 2016 08:05 KwarK wrote:
[quote]
You do understand that your argument was that "the left call all white males racist, that means that if a white male is called a racist by the left then no matter what he has said or done, he must not be racist", right? An argument that incidentally also exonerates Hitler. Now I'm not saying that Trump is Hitler, just that maybe instead of going "the left calls all white males racist" and dismissing it based on that, you should actually look at what Trump has said and done and base the decision upon that. Because otherwise we have to dismiss a lot of charges of racism and some of them will cover racists, like Hitler, and Trump. I have never made that conclusion. I'm sure some whites are dirty racists in our country but widespread or dangerous? I think not. Western white countries are literally the least racist countries in the world and that's not a racist thing to say that's a fact. How many refugees has the West taken in just from this Syrian conflict compared to actual Middle-Eastern countries like Saudi-Arabia or Bahrain or UAE? The west is so anti-racist places like the UK and Germany are literally passing authoritarian laws to censor any sort of criticism of immigration because they're too afraid of 'looking racist'. Nowhere else in the world would you get the amount of humanitarian aid and tolerance shown by Western countries. The whole 'radical conservative backwards racist conservative' hoax is literally white guilt indoctrination. You're right, the liberal West is far more liberal than the rest of the world. But that's irrelevant to what you said. You responded to accusations of Trump being a racist by saying that the left thinks all white males are racists. That's enough to respond to an accusation rooted purely in his gender and ethnicity but people aren't calling him a racist because of that, they're calling him a racist because of all the racist things he says and does. Also I think looking at Saudi Arabia and saying "why should we do more than them?" is pretty silly. It comes down to "let's find the worst people we can so we can feel okay when we're as bad as they are". Just because someone isn't the worst doesn't mean they can't do better. I do not literally believe every leftist believes that every white male is a racist. I am sorry I gave that impression. I was bitterly mocking his conclusion that 'trump's a racist everyone has always known he was a racist' as if it's matter-of-fact. I simply disagree with the notion that Trump should be called a racist or sexist for the things he has said this election cycle. It's just racist scandal after racist scandal from the media and when you look at the actual things he says versus how the media portrays him as 'literally' hitler, it's no wonder he won the republican primary. People are fed up with this authoritarian political correct bullshit trying to police people. Yes I agree bigotry and actual racism and actual sexism and actual homophobia are all very terrible things so I am somewhat understanding of the passion with which the 'progressive left' wants to stamp them out. But the war is over we won it's pretty much dead in the West. Where oppression like this isn't dead is in places ruled by Islamic Law where you ACTUALLY get murdered for dissenting beliefs/behaviors. Trump takes some controversial positions on mexican illegal immigration. Is it nice to deport all the illegal immigrants back to their home country away from our richer welfare state? No. But is it racist? No. Is it racist to point out? No. The MSM would have you believe it is though. It is racist to say that a person by virtue of his ethnicity (and no other evidence) is not doing his sworn duty correctly. It is racist to question that the President of the United States by virtue of his heritage and no other evidence is not an American citizen. Yes it is racist to suggest that. I do not believe that is what Trump did . He has clearly stated motivations for believing that the trial was being conducted unfairly and offered the judge's 'perspective' or 'race' as a possible motivator for why it might be unfair. The organization the judge is a part of clearly indicates he has some stake in Trump's success or not and that his judgment of this trial will directly affect that success. Is that still controversial? Yes. Is it as simple as him judging the judge as being incapable due to his race? No. What narrative is the media selling? You guess If he has clearly states motivations for believing the trial is being conducted unfairly that do not rely on race why have his laywers not tried to have the judge replaced? Why did he take the argument to national tv by using his position as Presidential candidate instead? Is he going to make such statements about judges involved in his (former) business lawsuits when he is President? You keep asking this question, the reason is because standards in the legal system are different than someone's opinion, right? OJ Simpson is not legally a murderer, but a lot of people, when asked, think he killed two people. People attack him all the time for the cases about Trump U. What'd be an unobjectionable way for him to deal with that subject? An unobjectionable way to deal with it would be not abuse his positional as presidential candidate to publicly slander a judge with 0 proof that is making unfavorable rulings in a case he is involved in. The correct way to deal with questions on the subject is "No comment". "No comment," when people use fraud allegations as an attack strategy on one of two candidates for the highest office on the planet? What do you think about his tax returns, can he say "no comment" on that?
It is entirely normal for anyone to not comment on legal proceedings and leave such things to the lawyers.
It is 'normal' for candidates to release their tax returns. There is no official rule so if he doesn't want to that sure, don't.
You suffer the consequence in people's mind all the same. Just like opening his mouth may well have done Trump more damage then if he said "I don't comment on open legal cases, I leave that to my lawyers".
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On June 08 2016 09:15 GGTeMpLaR wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2016 08:59 kwizach wrote:On June 08 2016 08:49 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On June 08 2016 08:40 Rebs wrote:On June 08 2016 08:37 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On June 08 2016 08:30 KwarK wrote:On June 08 2016 08:14 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On June 08 2016 08:05 KwarK wrote:On June 08 2016 08:02 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On June 08 2016 07:58 KwarK wrote:
[quote]
That's not how it works, only the ones who say and do racist things are. He got called a racist for saying we should halt immigration from muslims. They just want to make everything about race when it has nothing to do with race it has to do with facts and national security. I honestly think race-baiting is a bigger problem in the west at this point than actual racism. You do understand that your argument was that "the left call all white males racist, that means that if a white male is called a racist by the left then no matter what he has said or done, he must not be racist", right? An argument that incidentally also exonerates Hitler. Now I'm not saying that Trump is Hitler, just that maybe instead of going "the left calls all white males racist" and dismissing it based on that, you should actually look at what Trump has said and done and base the decision upon that. Because otherwise we have to dismiss a lot of charges of racism and some of them will cover racists, like Hitler, and Trump. I have never made that conclusion. I'm sure some whites are dirty racists in our country but widespread or dangerous? I think not. Western white countries are literally the least racist countries in the world and that's not a racist thing to say that's a fact. How many refugees has the West taken in just from this Syrian conflict compared to actual Middle-Eastern countries like Saudi-Arabia or Bahrain or UAE? The west is so anti-racist places like the UK and Germany are literally passing authoritarian laws to censor any sort of criticism of immigration because they're too afraid of 'looking racist'. Nowhere else in the world would you get the amount of humanitarian aid and tolerance shown by Western countries. The whole 'radical conservative backwards racist conservative' hoax is literally white guilt indoctrination. You're right, the liberal West is far more liberal than the rest of the world. But that's irrelevant to what you said. You responded to accusations of Trump being a racist by saying that the left thinks all white males are racists. That's enough to respond to an accusation rooted purely in his gender and ethnicity but people aren't calling him a racist because of that, they're calling him a racist because of all the racist things he says and does. Also I think looking at Saudi Arabia and saying "why should we do more than them?" is pretty silly. It comes down to "let's find the worst people we can so we can feel okay when we're as bad as they are". Just because someone isn't the worst doesn't mean they can't do better. I do not literally believe every leftist believes that every white male is a racist. I am sorry I gave that impression. I was bitterly mocking his conclusion that 'trump's a racist everyone has always known he was a racist' as if it's matter-of-fact. I simply disagree with the notion that Trump should be called a racist or sexist for the things he has said this election cycle. It's just racist scandal after racist scandal from the media and when you look at the actual things he says versus how the media portrays him as 'literally' hitler, it's no wonder he won the republican primary. People are fed up with this authoritarian political correct bullshit trying to police people. Yes I agree bigotry and actual racism and actual sexism and actual homophobia are all very terrible things so I am somewhat understanding of the passion with which the 'progressive left' wants to stamp them out. But the war is over we won it's pretty much dead in the West. Where oppression like this isn't dead is in places ruled by Islamic Law where you ACTUALLY get murdered for dissenting beliefs/behaviors. Trump takes some controversial positions on mexican illegal immigration. Is it nice to deport all the illegal immigrants back to their home country away from our richer welfare state? No. But is it racist? No. Is it racist to point out? No. The MSM would have you believe it is though. It is racist to say that a person by virtue of his ethnicity (and no other evidence) is not doing his sworn duty correctly. It is racist to question that the President of the United States by virtue of his heritage and no other evidence is not an American citizen. Yes it is racist to suggest that. I do not believe that is what Trump did . He has clearly stated motivations for believing that the trial was being conducted unfairly and offered the judge's 'perspective' or 'race' as a possible motivator for why it might be unfair. The organization the judge is a part of clearly indicates he has some stake in Trump's success or not and that his judgment of this trial will directly affect that success. Is that still controversial? Yes. Is it as simple as him judging the judge as being incapable due to his race? No. What narrative is the media selling? You guess How can you possibly still be pushing a narrative that is flat-out false at this point in the discussion? Trump did not mention the organization the judge is a part of to justify his position (an organization which by the way still in no way at all supports Trump's assertion). The organization was initially brought up by other parties, not by Trump. Stop mentioning it to explain Trump's reasoning. Trump made his reasoning explicit in several interviews. The reason why the judge was unfair to him was, in his eyes, that: 1. The judge was "Mexican" 2. Trump supports building a wall at the border with Mexico 3. Therefore, the judge is biased against him That's it. That's the extent of Trump's reasoning. He is unambiguously pushing the idea that because of the judge's ethnicity, he cannot be objective about Trump (due to Trump advocating for the construction of the border wall). I'm not going to fight you on your worst-possible-interpretation of what he said. You keep believing what fits your narrative to support he is Hitler 2.0. Go ahead and cite this interpretation as evidence to support it. I'll chalk it up to cognitive bias. Trump's by no means a perfect candidate but I genuinely do not believe he is a dangerous xenophobic racist who hates all mexicans and muslims. I think that's absurd.
At no point in my post did I present anything else but facts about what Trump said. That you're trying to present what I just wrote as an "interpretation" says all that needs to be said about your position. You're incapable of dealing with what Trump actually said his own reasoning was.
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On June 08 2016 09:15 GGTeMpLaR wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2016 08:59 kwizach wrote:On June 08 2016 08:49 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On June 08 2016 08:40 Rebs wrote:On June 08 2016 08:37 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On June 08 2016 08:30 KwarK wrote:On June 08 2016 08:14 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On June 08 2016 08:05 KwarK wrote:On June 08 2016 08:02 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On June 08 2016 07:58 KwarK wrote:
[quote]
That's not how it works, only the ones who say and do racist things are. He got called a racist for saying we should halt immigration from muslims. They just want to make everything about race when it has nothing to do with race it has to do with facts and national security. I honestly think race-baiting is a bigger problem in the west at this point than actual racism. You do understand that your argument was that "the left call all white males racist, that means that if a white male is called a racist by the left then no matter what he has said or done, he must not be racist", right? An argument that incidentally also exonerates Hitler. Now I'm not saying that Trump is Hitler, just that maybe instead of going "the left calls all white males racist" and dismissing it based on that, you should actually look at what Trump has said and done and base the decision upon that. Because otherwise we have to dismiss a lot of charges of racism and some of them will cover racists, like Hitler, and Trump. I have never made that conclusion. I'm sure some whites are dirty racists in our country but widespread or dangerous? I think not. Western white countries are literally the least racist countries in the world and that's not a racist thing to say that's a fact. How many refugees has the West taken in just from this Syrian conflict compared to actual Middle-Eastern countries like Saudi-Arabia or Bahrain or UAE? The west is so anti-racist places like the UK and Germany are literally passing authoritarian laws to censor any sort of criticism of immigration because they're too afraid of 'looking racist'. Nowhere else in the world would you get the amount of humanitarian aid and tolerance shown by Western countries. The whole 'radical conservative backwards racist conservative' hoax is literally white guilt indoctrination. You're right, the liberal West is far more liberal than the rest of the world. But that's irrelevant to what you said. You responded to accusations of Trump being a racist by saying that the left thinks all white males are racists. That's enough to respond to an accusation rooted purely in his gender and ethnicity but people aren't calling him a racist because of that, they're calling him a racist because of all the racist things he says and does. Also I think looking at Saudi Arabia and saying "why should we do more than them?" is pretty silly. It comes down to "let's find the worst people we can so we can feel okay when we're as bad as they are". Just because someone isn't the worst doesn't mean they can't do better. I do not literally believe every leftist believes that every white male is a racist. I am sorry I gave that impression. I was bitterly mocking his conclusion that 'trump's a racist everyone has always known he was a racist' as if it's matter-of-fact. I simply disagree with the notion that Trump should be called a racist or sexist for the things he has said this election cycle. It's just racist scandal after racist scandal from the media and when you look at the actual things he says versus how the media portrays him as 'literally' hitler, it's no wonder he won the republican primary. People are fed up with this authoritarian political correct bullshit trying to police people. Yes I agree bigotry and actual racism and actual sexism and actual homophobia are all very terrible things so I am somewhat understanding of the passion with which the 'progressive left' wants to stamp them out. But the war is over we won it's pretty much dead in the West. Where oppression like this isn't dead is in places ruled by Islamic Law where you ACTUALLY get murdered for dissenting beliefs/behaviors. Trump takes some controversial positions on mexican illegal immigration. Is it nice to deport all the illegal immigrants back to their home country away from our richer welfare state? No. But is it racist? No. Is it racist to point out? No. The MSM would have you believe it is though. It is racist to say that a person by virtue of his ethnicity (and no other evidence) is not doing his sworn duty correctly. It is racist to question that the President of the United States by virtue of his heritage and no other evidence is not an American citizen. Yes it is racist to suggest that. I do not believe that is what Trump did . He has clearly stated motivations for believing that the trial was being conducted unfairly and offered the judge's 'perspective' or 'race' as a possible motivator for why it might be unfair. The organization the judge is a part of clearly indicates he has some stake in Trump's success or not and that his judgment of this trial will directly affect that success. Is that still controversial? Yes. Is it as simple as him judging the judge as being incapable due to his race? No. What narrative is the media selling? You guess How can you possibly still be pushing a narrative that is flat-out false at this point in the discussion? Trump did not mention the organization the judge is a part of to justify his position (an organization which by the way still in no way at all supports Trump's assertion). The organization was initially brought up by other parties, not by Trump. Stop mentioning it to explain Trump's reasoning. Trump made his reasoning explicit in several interviews. The reason why the judge was unfair to him was, in his eyes, that: 1. The judge was "Mexican" 2. Trump supports building a wall at the border with Mexico 3. Therefore, the judge is biased against him That's it. That's the extent of Trump's reasoning. He is unambiguously pushing the idea that because of the judge's ethnicity, he cannot be objective about Trump (due to Trump advocating for the construction of the border wall). I'm not going to fight you on your worst-possible-interpretation of what he said. You keep believing what fits your narrative to support he is Hitler 2.0. Go ahead and cite this interpretation as evidence to support it. I'll chalk it up to cognitive bias. Trump's by no means a perfect candidate but I genuinely do not believe he is a dangerous xenophobic racist who hates all mexicans and muslims. I think that's absurd.
"We're building a wall. He's a Mexican. We're building a wall between here and Mexico."
- Donald Trump
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United States7226 Posts
On June 08 2016 09:12 Rebs wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2016 09:09 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On June 08 2016 08:55 KwarK wrote:On June 08 2016 08:44 SK.Testie wrote:
So you're against the Migrant crisis? Or perhaps at least a far more sensible solution to it. Not this mass migration that is coming from WAY more countries than just Syria. Do you think Republicans have a point in saying, "accept Christians and families please! Muslims, no thank you?" Of all the Muslims I talk to they tell me the only hopeful country in the region is Iran. And judging from my own readings it seems to be the only one.
So why would the left keep forcing mass immigration against our will?
What of Mexico? It's full of beautiful and awesome people I agree and I loved my visit there. But I was also robbed within one day of being there which hadn't happened to me once in all my days of being in the west. So maybe.. republicans can say.. BUILD THE WALL? Everyone is "against" the migrant crisis in the sense that they'd rather people were staying back home in a stable country with jobs and prospects etc, hell, I think even the migrants would agree on that. What people disagree with is what to do about it. I'd rather secure borders with camps outside of the EU for processing, screening and so forth and ideally for getting them back home when shit stops hitting the fan there. As for the Muslims coming to the US, no, I don't agree. The hysterical claims of millions of ISIS members crossing into America are false, we are talking small numbers of heavily screened individuals to the point that I feel no more threatened by knowing they're a Muslim than I do by anything else. If there was a murderous army waiting to destroy America and Obama wanted to invite them in I'd object to that policy. But that isn't the reality of the situation, that's a propaganda piece that the far right tell themselves. I work with handful of Muslims day to day from all over the Middle East (foreign students doing their PhDs mostly) and the reality of the situation is that once they get their doctorates they will probably be denied the right to stay in the US due to their backgrounds. Which is insane, they're overqualified for their home nations, they're bright and motivated young men and they're very happy to be in the US. Hell, half of them eat pork. But this is where we end up from fearing the Muslim. The entire argument isn't that there's millions of bloodthirsty radicals that want to hurt us. It's that we don't feel comfortable with our vetting process to guarantee the safety of any given refugee when there's millions of them out there at this point. Do you know what the vetting process is ? I do, Ive been through it. Its not easy. Not at fucking all. Im talking years of my life gone not able to commit to shit waiting for bureaucracy to work long. Show nested quote +On June 08 2016 09:11 oBlade wrote:On June 08 2016 09:04 Gorsameth wrote:On June 08 2016 08:58 oBlade wrote:On June 08 2016 08:53 Gorsameth wrote:On June 08 2016 08:49 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On June 08 2016 08:40 Rebs wrote:On June 08 2016 08:37 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On June 08 2016 08:30 KwarK wrote:On June 08 2016 08:14 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
[quote]
I have never made that conclusion. I'm sure some whites are dirty racists in our country but widespread or dangerous? I think not.
Western white countries are literally the least racist countries in the world and that's not a racist thing to say that's a fact. How many refugees has the West taken in just from this Syrian conflict compared to actual Middle-Eastern countries like Saudi-Arabia or Bahrain or UAE? The west is so anti-racist places like the UK and Germany are literally passing authoritarian laws to censor any sort of criticism of immigration because they're too afraid of 'looking racist'.
Nowhere else in the world would you get the amount of humanitarian aid and tolerance shown by Western countries. The whole 'radical conservative backwards racist conservative' hoax is literally white guilt indoctrination. You're right, the liberal West is far more liberal than the rest of the world. But that's irrelevant to what you said. You responded to accusations of Trump being a racist by saying that the left thinks all white males are racists. That's enough to respond to an accusation rooted purely in his gender and ethnicity but people aren't calling him a racist because of that, they're calling him a racist because of all the racist things he says and does. Also I think looking at Saudi Arabia and saying "why should we do more than them?" is pretty silly. It comes down to "let's find the worst people we can so we can feel okay when we're as bad as they are". Just because someone isn't the worst doesn't mean they can't do better. I do not literally believe every leftist believes that every white male is a racist. I am sorry I gave that impression. I was bitterly mocking his conclusion that 'trump's a racist everyone has always known he was a racist' as if it's matter-of-fact. I simply disagree with the notion that Trump should be called a racist or sexist for the things he has said this election cycle. It's just racist scandal after racist scandal from the media and when you look at the actual things he says versus how the media portrays him as 'literally' hitler, it's no wonder he won the republican primary. People are fed up with this authoritarian political correct bullshit trying to police people. Yes I agree bigotry and actual racism and actual sexism and actual homophobia are all very terrible things so I am somewhat understanding of the passion with which the 'progressive left' wants to stamp them out. But the war is over we won it's pretty much dead in the West. Where oppression like this isn't dead is in places ruled by Islamic Law where you ACTUALLY get murdered for dissenting beliefs/behaviors. Trump takes some controversial positions on mexican illegal immigration. Is it nice to deport all the illegal immigrants back to their home country away from our richer welfare state? No. But is it racist? No. Is it racist to point out? No. The MSM would have you believe it is though. It is racist to say that a person by virtue of his ethnicity (and no other evidence) is not doing his sworn duty correctly. It is racist to question that the President of the United States by virtue of his heritage and no other evidence is not an American citizen. Yes it is racist to suggest that. I do not believe that is what Trump did . He has clearly stated motivations for believing that the trial was being conducted unfairly and offered the judge's 'perspective' or 'race' as a possible motivator for why it might be unfair. The organization the judge is a part of clearly indicates he has some stake in Trump's success or not and that his judgment of this trial will directly affect that success. Is that still controversial? Yes. Is it as simple as him judging the judge as being incapable due to his race? No. What narrative is the media selling? You guess If he has clearly states motivations for believing the trial is being conducted unfairly that do not rely on race why have his laywers not tried to have the judge replaced? Why did he take the argument to national tv by using his position as Presidential candidate instead? Is he going to make such statements about judges involved in his (former) business lawsuits when he is President? You keep asking this question, the reason is because standards in the legal system are different than someone's opinion, right? OJ Simpson is not legally a murderer, but a lot of people, when asked, think he killed two people. People attack him all the time for the cases about Trump U. What'd be an unobjectionable way for him to deal with that subject? An unobjectionable way to deal with it would be not abuse his positional as presidential candidate to publicly slander a judge with 0 proof that is making unfavorable rulings in a case he is involved in. The correct way to deal with questions on the subject is "No comment". "No comment," when people use fraud allegations as an attack strategy on one of two candidates for the highest office on the planet? What do you think about his tax returns, can he say "no comment" on that? So the answer to fraud allegations from other people is to attack the one in charge of your trial. Who by the by is completely unrelated to said allegations and is just doing his job. Clever strategy, Except not really.
I have a government security clearance so yes I've been through vetting processes and no they are not infallible.
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United States7226 Posts
On June 08 2016 09:16 kwizach wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2016 09:15 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On June 08 2016 08:59 kwizach wrote:On June 08 2016 08:49 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On June 08 2016 08:40 Rebs wrote:On June 08 2016 08:37 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On June 08 2016 08:30 KwarK wrote:On June 08 2016 08:14 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On June 08 2016 08:05 KwarK wrote:On June 08 2016 08:02 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
[quote]
He got called a racist for saying we should halt immigration from muslims. They just want to make everything about race when it has nothing to do with race it has to do with facts and national security.
I honestly think race-baiting is a bigger problem in the west at this point than actual racism. You do understand that your argument was that "the left call all white males racist, that means that if a white male is called a racist by the left then no matter what he has said or done, he must not be racist", right? An argument that incidentally also exonerates Hitler. Now I'm not saying that Trump is Hitler, just that maybe instead of going "the left calls all white males racist" and dismissing it based on that, you should actually look at what Trump has said and done and base the decision upon that. Because otherwise we have to dismiss a lot of charges of racism and some of them will cover racists, like Hitler, and Trump. I have never made that conclusion. I'm sure some whites are dirty racists in our country but widespread or dangerous? I think not. Western white countries are literally the least racist countries in the world and that's not a racist thing to say that's a fact. How many refugees has the West taken in just from this Syrian conflict compared to actual Middle-Eastern countries like Saudi-Arabia or Bahrain or UAE? The west is so anti-racist places like the UK and Germany are literally passing authoritarian laws to censor any sort of criticism of immigration because they're too afraid of 'looking racist'. Nowhere else in the world would you get the amount of humanitarian aid and tolerance shown by Western countries. The whole 'radical conservative backwards racist conservative' hoax is literally white guilt indoctrination. You're right, the liberal West is far more liberal than the rest of the world. But that's irrelevant to what you said. You responded to accusations of Trump being a racist by saying that the left thinks all white males are racists. That's enough to respond to an accusation rooted purely in his gender and ethnicity but people aren't calling him a racist because of that, they're calling him a racist because of all the racist things he says and does. Also I think looking at Saudi Arabia and saying "why should we do more than them?" is pretty silly. It comes down to "let's find the worst people we can so we can feel okay when we're as bad as they are". Just because someone isn't the worst doesn't mean they can't do better. I do not literally believe every leftist believes that every white male is a racist. I am sorry I gave that impression. I was bitterly mocking his conclusion that 'trump's a racist everyone has always known he was a racist' as if it's matter-of-fact. I simply disagree with the notion that Trump should be called a racist or sexist for the things he has said this election cycle. It's just racist scandal after racist scandal from the media and when you look at the actual things he says versus how the media portrays him as 'literally' hitler, it's no wonder he won the republican primary. People are fed up with this authoritarian political correct bullshit trying to police people. Yes I agree bigotry and actual racism and actual sexism and actual homophobia are all very terrible things so I am somewhat understanding of the passion with which the 'progressive left' wants to stamp them out. But the war is over we won it's pretty much dead in the West. Where oppression like this isn't dead is in places ruled by Islamic Law where you ACTUALLY get murdered for dissenting beliefs/behaviors. Trump takes some controversial positions on mexican illegal immigration. Is it nice to deport all the illegal immigrants back to their home country away from our richer welfare state? No. But is it racist? No. Is it racist to point out? No. The MSM would have you believe it is though. It is racist to say that a person by virtue of his ethnicity (and no other evidence) is not doing his sworn duty correctly. It is racist to question that the President of the United States by virtue of his heritage and no other evidence is not an American citizen. Yes it is racist to suggest that. I do not believe that is what Trump did . He has clearly stated motivations for believing that the trial was being conducted unfairly and offered the judge's 'perspective' or 'race' as a possible motivator for why it might be unfair. The organization the judge is a part of clearly indicates he has some stake in Trump's success or not and that his judgment of this trial will directly affect that success. Is that still controversial? Yes. Is it as simple as him judging the judge as being incapable due to his race? No. What narrative is the media selling? You guess How can you possibly still be pushing a narrative that is flat-out false at this point in the discussion? Trump did not mention the organization the judge is a part of to justify his position (an organization which by the way still in no way at all supports Trump's assertion). The organization was initially brought up by other parties, not by Trump. Stop mentioning it to explain Trump's reasoning. Trump made his reasoning explicit in several interviews. The reason why the judge was unfair to him was, in his eyes, that: 1. The judge was "Mexican" 2. Trump supports building a wall at the border with Mexico 3. Therefore, the judge is biased against him That's it. That's the extent of Trump's reasoning. He is unambiguously pushing the idea that because of the judge's ethnicity, he cannot be objective about Trump (due to Trump advocating for the construction of the border wall). I'm not going to fight you on your worst-possible-interpretation of what he said. You keep believing what fits your narrative to support he is Hitler 2.0. Go ahead and cite this interpretation as evidence to support it. I'll chalk it up to cognitive bias. Trump's by no means a perfect candidate but I genuinely do not believe he is a dangerous xenophobic racist who hates all mexicans and muslims. I think that's absurd. At no point in my post did I present anything else but facts about what Trump said. That you're trying to present what I just wrote as an "interpretation" says all that needs to be said about your position. You're incapable of dealing with what Trump actually said his own reasoning was.
You have not represented facts. You have represented your interpretation of what you believe to be his positions and beliefs and views and character. They are all very absurd and difficult sells to make. You should honestly be ashamed for high-school-level gossip slander at this point.
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United States7226 Posts
On June 08 2016 09:17 Doodsmack wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2016 09:15 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On June 08 2016 08:59 kwizach wrote:On June 08 2016 08:49 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On June 08 2016 08:40 Rebs wrote:On June 08 2016 08:37 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On June 08 2016 08:30 KwarK wrote:On June 08 2016 08:14 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On June 08 2016 08:05 KwarK wrote:On June 08 2016 08:02 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
[quote]
He got called a racist for saying we should halt immigration from muslims. They just want to make everything about race when it has nothing to do with race it has to do with facts and national security.
I honestly think race-baiting is a bigger problem in the west at this point than actual racism. You do understand that your argument was that "the left call all white males racist, that means that if a white male is called a racist by the left then no matter what he has said or done, he must not be racist", right? An argument that incidentally also exonerates Hitler. Now I'm not saying that Trump is Hitler, just that maybe instead of going "the left calls all white males racist" and dismissing it based on that, you should actually look at what Trump has said and done and base the decision upon that. Because otherwise we have to dismiss a lot of charges of racism and some of them will cover racists, like Hitler, and Trump. I have never made that conclusion. I'm sure some whites are dirty racists in our country but widespread or dangerous? I think not. Western white countries are literally the least racist countries in the world and that's not a racist thing to say that's a fact. How many refugees has the West taken in just from this Syrian conflict compared to actual Middle-Eastern countries like Saudi-Arabia or Bahrain or UAE? The west is so anti-racist places like the UK and Germany are literally passing authoritarian laws to censor any sort of criticism of immigration because they're too afraid of 'looking racist'. Nowhere else in the world would you get the amount of humanitarian aid and tolerance shown by Western countries. The whole 'radical conservative backwards racist conservative' hoax is literally white guilt indoctrination. You're right, the liberal West is far more liberal than the rest of the world. But that's irrelevant to what you said. You responded to accusations of Trump being a racist by saying that the left thinks all white males are racists. That's enough to respond to an accusation rooted purely in his gender and ethnicity but people aren't calling him a racist because of that, they're calling him a racist because of all the racist things he says and does. Also I think looking at Saudi Arabia and saying "why should we do more than them?" is pretty silly. It comes down to "let's find the worst people we can so we can feel okay when we're as bad as they are". Just because someone isn't the worst doesn't mean they can't do better. I do not literally believe every leftist believes that every white male is a racist. I am sorry I gave that impression. I was bitterly mocking his conclusion that 'trump's a racist everyone has always known he was a racist' as if it's matter-of-fact. I simply disagree with the notion that Trump should be called a racist or sexist for the things he has said this election cycle. It's just racist scandal after racist scandal from the media and when you look at the actual things he says versus how the media portrays him as 'literally' hitler, it's no wonder he won the republican primary. People are fed up with this authoritarian political correct bullshit trying to police people. Yes I agree bigotry and actual racism and actual sexism and actual homophobia are all very terrible things so I am somewhat understanding of the passion with which the 'progressive left' wants to stamp them out. But the war is over we won it's pretty much dead in the West. Where oppression like this isn't dead is in places ruled by Islamic Law where you ACTUALLY get murdered for dissenting beliefs/behaviors. Trump takes some controversial positions on mexican illegal immigration. Is it nice to deport all the illegal immigrants back to their home country away from our richer welfare state? No. But is it racist? No. Is it racist to point out? No. The MSM would have you believe it is though. It is racist to say that a person by virtue of his ethnicity (and no other evidence) is not doing his sworn duty correctly. It is racist to question that the President of the United States by virtue of his heritage and no other evidence is not an American citizen. Yes it is racist to suggest that. I do not believe that is what Trump did . He has clearly stated motivations for believing that the trial was being conducted unfairly and offered the judge's 'perspective' or 'race' as a possible motivator for why it might be unfair. The organization the judge is a part of clearly indicates he has some stake in Trump's success or not and that his judgment of this trial will directly affect that success. Is that still controversial? Yes. Is it as simple as him judging the judge as being incapable due to his race? No. What narrative is the media selling? You guess How can you possibly still be pushing a narrative that is flat-out false at this point in the discussion? Trump did not mention the organization the judge is a part of to justify his position (an organization which by the way still in no way at all supports Trump's assertion). The organization was initially brought up by other parties, not by Trump. Stop mentioning it to explain Trump's reasoning. Trump made his reasoning explicit in several interviews. The reason why the judge was unfair to him was, in his eyes, that: 1. The judge was "Mexican" 2. Trump supports building a wall at the border with Mexico 3. Therefore, the judge is biased against him That's it. That's the extent of Trump's reasoning. He is unambiguously pushing the idea that because of the judge's ethnicity, he cannot be objective about Trump (due to Trump advocating for the construction of the border wall). I'm not going to fight you on your worst-possible-interpretation of what he said. You keep believing what fits your narrative to support he is Hitler 2.0. Go ahead and cite this interpretation as evidence to support it. I'll chalk it up to cognitive bias. Trump's by no means a perfect candidate but I genuinely do not believe he is a dangerous xenophobic racist who hates all mexicans and muslims. I think that's absurd. "We're building a wall. He's a Mexican. We're building a wall between here and Mexico." - Donald Trump
I bet you think you're being hilariously clever right now. It's almost cute.
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On June 08 2016 09:12 Rebs wrote:
So the answer to fraud allegations from other people is to attack the one in charge of your trial. Who by the by is completely unrelated to said allegations and is just doing his job.
Clever strategy, Except not really.
I was asking for an alternative way for him to respond, have you not got one to present? Because the only other suggestion was "no comment," and that doesn't seem like a response at all to me. I'd like to see if people could imagine something Trump could say that they wouldn't object to.
On June 08 2016 09:16 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2016 09:11 oBlade wrote:On June 08 2016 09:04 Gorsameth wrote:On June 08 2016 08:58 oBlade wrote:On June 08 2016 08:53 Gorsameth wrote:On June 08 2016 08:49 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On June 08 2016 08:40 Rebs wrote:On June 08 2016 08:37 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On June 08 2016 08:30 KwarK wrote:On June 08 2016 08:14 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
[quote]
I have never made that conclusion. I'm sure some whites are dirty racists in our country but widespread or dangerous? I think not.
Western white countries are literally the least racist countries in the world and that's not a racist thing to say that's a fact. How many refugees has the West taken in just from this Syrian conflict compared to actual Middle-Eastern countries like Saudi-Arabia or Bahrain or UAE? The west is so anti-racist places like the UK and Germany are literally passing authoritarian laws to censor any sort of criticism of immigration because they're too afraid of 'looking racist'.
Nowhere else in the world would you get the amount of humanitarian aid and tolerance shown by Western countries. The whole 'radical conservative backwards racist conservative' hoax is literally white guilt indoctrination. You're right, the liberal West is far more liberal than the rest of the world. But that's irrelevant to what you said. You responded to accusations of Trump being a racist by saying that the left thinks all white males are racists. That's enough to respond to an accusation rooted purely in his gender and ethnicity but people aren't calling him a racist because of that, they're calling him a racist because of all the racist things he says and does. Also I think looking at Saudi Arabia and saying "why should we do more than them?" is pretty silly. It comes down to "let's find the worst people we can so we can feel okay when we're as bad as they are". Just because someone isn't the worst doesn't mean they can't do better. I do not literally believe every leftist believes that every white male is a racist. I am sorry I gave that impression. I was bitterly mocking his conclusion that 'trump's a racist everyone has always known he was a racist' as if it's matter-of-fact. I simply disagree with the notion that Trump should be called a racist or sexist for the things he has said this election cycle. It's just racist scandal after racist scandal from the media and when you look at the actual things he says versus how the media portrays him as 'literally' hitler, it's no wonder he won the republican primary. People are fed up with this authoritarian political correct bullshit trying to police people. Yes I agree bigotry and actual racism and actual sexism and actual homophobia are all very terrible things so I am somewhat understanding of the passion with which the 'progressive left' wants to stamp them out. But the war is over we won it's pretty much dead in the West. Where oppression like this isn't dead is in places ruled by Islamic Law where you ACTUALLY get murdered for dissenting beliefs/behaviors. Trump takes some controversial positions on mexican illegal immigration. Is it nice to deport all the illegal immigrants back to their home country away from our richer welfare state? No. But is it racist? No. Is it racist to point out? No. The MSM would have you believe it is though. It is racist to say that a person by virtue of his ethnicity (and no other evidence) is not doing his sworn duty correctly. It is racist to question that the President of the United States by virtue of his heritage and no other evidence is not an American citizen. Yes it is racist to suggest that. I do not believe that is what Trump did . He has clearly stated motivations for believing that the trial was being conducted unfairly and offered the judge's 'perspective' or 'race' as a possible motivator for why it might be unfair. The organization the judge is a part of clearly indicates he has some stake in Trump's success or not and that his judgment of this trial will directly affect that success. Is that still controversial? Yes. Is it as simple as him judging the judge as being incapable due to his race? No. What narrative is the media selling? You guess If he has clearly states motivations for believing the trial is being conducted unfairly that do not rely on race why have his laywers not tried to have the judge replaced? Why did he take the argument to national tv by using his position as Presidential candidate instead? Is he going to make such statements about judges involved in his (former) business lawsuits when he is President? You keep asking this question, the reason is because standards in the legal system are different than someone's opinion, right? OJ Simpson is not legally a murderer, but a lot of people, when asked, think he killed two people. People attack him all the time for the cases about Trump U. What'd be an unobjectionable way for him to deal with that subject? An unobjectionable way to deal with it would be not abuse his positional as presidential candidate to publicly slander a judge with 0 proof that is making unfavorable rulings in a case he is involved in. The correct way to deal with questions on the subject is "No comment". "No comment," when people use fraud allegations as an attack strategy on one of two candidates for the highest office on the planet? What do you think about his tax returns, can he say "no comment" on that? It is entirely normal for anyone to not comment on legal proceedings and leave such things to the lawyers. It is 'normal' for candidates to release their tax returns. There is no official rule so if he doesn't want to that sure, don't. You suffer the consequence in people's mind all the same. Just like opening his mouth may well have done Trump more damage then if he said "I don't comment on open legal cases, I leave that to my lawyers".
Do you have a problem with the people who have been attacking him over Trump U for months, including HRC, they should be silent about that? It sounds to me like all you want to do is hamstring him. "No comment" is not a way to respond.
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Doom is doing a great job of proving Trump is racist. Which he is.
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On June 08 2016 09:21 GGTeMpLaR wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2016 09:16 kwizach wrote:On June 08 2016 09:15 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On June 08 2016 08:59 kwizach wrote:On June 08 2016 08:49 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On June 08 2016 08:40 Rebs wrote:On June 08 2016 08:37 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On June 08 2016 08:30 KwarK wrote:On June 08 2016 08:14 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On June 08 2016 08:05 KwarK wrote:
[quote]
You do understand that your argument was that "the left call all white males racist, that means that if a white male is called a racist by the left then no matter what he has said or done, he must not be racist", right? An argument that incidentally also exonerates Hitler. Now I'm not saying that Trump is Hitler, just that maybe instead of going "the left calls all white males racist" and dismissing it based on that, you should actually look at what Trump has said and done and base the decision upon that. Because otherwise we have to dismiss a lot of charges of racism and some of them will cover racists, like Hitler, and Trump. I have never made that conclusion. I'm sure some whites are dirty racists in our country but widespread or dangerous? I think not. Western white countries are literally the least racist countries in the world and that's not a racist thing to say that's a fact. How many refugees has the West taken in just from this Syrian conflict compared to actual Middle-Eastern countries like Saudi-Arabia or Bahrain or UAE? The west is so anti-racist places like the UK and Germany are literally passing authoritarian laws to censor any sort of criticism of immigration because they're too afraid of 'looking racist'. Nowhere else in the world would you get the amount of humanitarian aid and tolerance shown by Western countries. The whole 'radical conservative backwards racist conservative' hoax is literally white guilt indoctrination. You're right, the liberal West is far more liberal than the rest of the world. But that's irrelevant to what you said. You responded to accusations of Trump being a racist by saying that the left thinks all white males are racists. That's enough to respond to an accusation rooted purely in his gender and ethnicity but people aren't calling him a racist because of that, they're calling him a racist because of all the racist things he says and does. Also I think looking at Saudi Arabia and saying "why should we do more than them?" is pretty silly. It comes down to "let's find the worst people we can so we can feel okay when we're as bad as they are". Just because someone isn't the worst doesn't mean they can't do better. I do not literally believe every leftist believes that every white male is a racist. I am sorry I gave that impression. I was bitterly mocking his conclusion that 'trump's a racist everyone has always known he was a racist' as if it's matter-of-fact. I simply disagree with the notion that Trump should be called a racist or sexist for the things he has said this election cycle. It's just racist scandal after racist scandal from the media and when you look at the actual things he says versus how the media portrays him as 'literally' hitler, it's no wonder he won the republican primary. People are fed up with this authoritarian political correct bullshit trying to police people. Yes I agree bigotry and actual racism and actual sexism and actual homophobia are all very terrible things so I am somewhat understanding of the passion with which the 'progressive left' wants to stamp them out. But the war is over we won it's pretty much dead in the West. Where oppression like this isn't dead is in places ruled by Islamic Law where you ACTUALLY get murdered for dissenting beliefs/behaviors. Trump takes some controversial positions on mexican illegal immigration. Is it nice to deport all the illegal immigrants back to their home country away from our richer welfare state? No. But is it racist? No. Is it racist to point out? No. The MSM would have you believe it is though. It is racist to say that a person by virtue of his ethnicity (and no other evidence) is not doing his sworn duty correctly. It is racist to question that the President of the United States by virtue of his heritage and no other evidence is not an American citizen. Yes it is racist to suggest that. I do not believe that is what Trump did . He has clearly stated motivations for believing that the trial was being conducted unfairly and offered the judge's 'perspective' or 'race' as a possible motivator for why it might be unfair. The organization the judge is a part of clearly indicates he has some stake in Trump's success or not and that his judgment of this trial will directly affect that success. Is that still controversial? Yes. Is it as simple as him judging the judge as being incapable due to his race? No. What narrative is the media selling? You guess How can you possibly still be pushing a narrative that is flat-out false at this point in the discussion? Trump did not mention the organization the judge is a part of to justify his position (an organization which by the way still in no way at all supports Trump's assertion). The organization was initially brought up by other parties, not by Trump. Stop mentioning it to explain Trump's reasoning. Trump made his reasoning explicit in several interviews. The reason why the judge was unfair to him was, in his eyes, that: 1. The judge was "Mexican" 2. Trump supports building a wall at the border with Mexico 3. Therefore, the judge is biased against him That's it. That's the extent of Trump's reasoning. He is unambiguously pushing the idea that because of the judge's ethnicity, he cannot be objective about Trump (due to Trump advocating for the construction of the border wall). I'm not going to fight you on your worst-possible-interpretation of what he said. You keep believing what fits your narrative to support he is Hitler 2.0. Go ahead and cite this interpretation as evidence to support it. I'll chalk it up to cognitive bias. Trump's by no means a perfect candidate but I genuinely do not believe he is a dangerous xenophobic racist who hates all mexicans and muslims. I think that's absurd. At no point in my post did I present anything else but facts about what Trump said. That you're trying to present what I just wrote as an "interpretation" says all that needs to be said about your position. You're incapable of dealing with what Trump actually said his own reasoning was. You have not represented facts. You have represented your interpretation of what you believe to be his positions and beliefs and views and character. They are all very absurd and difficult sells to make. You should honestly be ashamed for high-school-level gossip slander at this point.
I have seen at least 2 people link you to factual quote of what Trump said when he first mentioned the judge and his bias.
There is no interpretation to be had. His statement is entirely clear.
Except for you it seems.
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United States7226 Posts
On June 08 2016 09:24 Plansix wrote:
Doom is doing a great job of proving Trump is racist. Which he is.
"I love hispanics!"
-gets called racist-
You have all taken the meaning away from the word by your abuse of it.
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Trump falling back on the teleprompters he has demonized. Guess we aren't the only ones who know he says stupid shit when he's off the cuff, and tonight is not the night to say something stupid.
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On June 08 2016 09:15 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
your worst-possible-interpretation
"We're building a wall. He's a Mexican. We're building a wall between here and Mexico."
- Donald Trump
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United States7226 Posts
On June 08 2016 09:24 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2016 09:21 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On June 08 2016 09:16 kwizach wrote:On June 08 2016 09:15 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On June 08 2016 08:59 kwizach wrote:On June 08 2016 08:49 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On June 08 2016 08:40 Rebs wrote:On June 08 2016 08:37 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On June 08 2016 08:30 KwarK wrote:On June 08 2016 08:14 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
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I have never made that conclusion. I'm sure some whites are dirty racists in our country but widespread or dangerous? I think not.
Western white countries are literally the least racist countries in the world and that's not a racist thing to say that's a fact. How many refugees has the West taken in just from this Syrian conflict compared to actual Middle-Eastern countries like Saudi-Arabia or Bahrain or UAE? The west is so anti-racist places like the UK and Germany are literally passing authoritarian laws to censor any sort of criticism of immigration because they're too afraid of 'looking racist'.
Nowhere else in the world would you get the amount of humanitarian aid and tolerance shown by Western countries. The whole 'radical conservative backwards racist conservative' hoax is literally white guilt indoctrination. You're right, the liberal West is far more liberal than the rest of the world. But that's irrelevant to what you said. You responded to accusations of Trump being a racist by saying that the left thinks all white males are racists. That's enough to respond to an accusation rooted purely in his gender and ethnicity but people aren't calling him a racist because of that, they're calling him a racist because of all the racist things he says and does. Also I think looking at Saudi Arabia and saying "why should we do more than them?" is pretty silly. It comes down to "let's find the worst people we can so we can feel okay when we're as bad as they are". Just because someone isn't the worst doesn't mean they can't do better. I do not literally believe every leftist believes that every white male is a racist. I am sorry I gave that impression. I was bitterly mocking his conclusion that 'trump's a racist everyone has always known he was a racist' as if it's matter-of-fact. I simply disagree with the notion that Trump should be called a racist or sexist for the things he has said this election cycle. It's just racist scandal after racist scandal from the media and when you look at the actual things he says versus how the media portrays him as 'literally' hitler, it's no wonder he won the republican primary. People are fed up with this authoritarian political correct bullshit trying to police people. Yes I agree bigotry and actual racism and actual sexism and actual homophobia are all very terrible things so I am somewhat understanding of the passion with which the 'progressive left' wants to stamp them out. But the war is over we won it's pretty much dead in the West. Where oppression like this isn't dead is in places ruled by Islamic Law where you ACTUALLY get murdered for dissenting beliefs/behaviors. Trump takes some controversial positions on mexican illegal immigration. Is it nice to deport all the illegal immigrants back to their home country away from our richer welfare state? No. But is it racist? No. Is it racist to point out? No. The MSM would have you believe it is though. It is racist to say that a person by virtue of his ethnicity (and no other evidence) is not doing his sworn duty correctly. It is racist to question that the President of the United States by virtue of his heritage and no other evidence is not an American citizen. Yes it is racist to suggest that. I do not believe that is what Trump did . He has clearly stated motivations for believing that the trial was being conducted unfairly and offered the judge's 'perspective' or 'race' as a possible motivator for why it might be unfair. The organization the judge is a part of clearly indicates he has some stake in Trump's success or not and that his judgment of this trial will directly affect that success. Is that still controversial? Yes. Is it as simple as him judging the judge as being incapable due to his race? No. What narrative is the media selling? You guess How can you possibly still be pushing a narrative that is flat-out false at this point in the discussion? Trump did not mention the organization the judge is a part of to justify his position (an organization which by the way still in no way at all supports Trump's assertion). The organization was initially brought up by other parties, not by Trump. Stop mentioning it to explain Trump's reasoning. Trump made his reasoning explicit in several interviews. The reason why the judge was unfair to him was, in his eyes, that: 1. The judge was "Mexican" 2. Trump supports building a wall at the border with Mexico 3. Therefore, the judge is biased against him That's it. That's the extent of Trump's reasoning. He is unambiguously pushing the idea that because of the judge's ethnicity, he cannot be objective about Trump (due to Trump advocating for the construction of the border wall). I'm not going to fight you on your worst-possible-interpretation of what he said. You keep believing what fits your narrative to support he is Hitler 2.0. Go ahead and cite this interpretation as evidence to support it. I'll chalk it up to cognitive bias. Trump's by no means a perfect candidate but I genuinely do not believe he is a dangerous xenophobic racist who hates all mexicans and muslims. I think that's absurd. At no point in my post did I present anything else but facts about what Trump said. That you're trying to present what I just wrote as an "interpretation" says all that needs to be said about your position. You're incapable of dealing with what Trump actually said his own reasoning was. You have not represented facts. You have represented your interpretation of what you believe to be his positions and beliefs and views and character. They are all very absurd and difficult sells to make. You should honestly be ashamed for high-school-level gossip slander at this point. I have seen at least 2 people link you to factual quote of what Trump said when he first mentioned the judge and his bias. There is no interpretation to be had. His statement is entirely clear. Except for you it seems.
I've seen it a dozen times.
Nothing exists in a vacuum.
You're sorely mistaken to think you can just take what he said and objectively call him a racist and extrapolate the meaning behind it as if you're not making an interpretation of values here.
Facts are facts. Stating he said X is a fact. Stating him saying X means Y and that Y is racist and so he is a xenophobic racist for saying Y is a horrible interpretation given the alternative reasonable explanation that exists.
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Turns out Trump's lawyer in the case is a Clinton donor, and donated the legal max to her in January 2016 LOL.
Let's hear the conservative arguments distinguishing between Trump's own lawyer and the judge w/r/t potential bias.
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On June 08 2016 09:19 GGTeMpLaR wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2016 09:12 Rebs wrote:On June 08 2016 09:09 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On June 08 2016 08:55 KwarK wrote:On June 08 2016 08:44 SK.Testie wrote:
So you're against the Migrant crisis? Or perhaps at least a far more sensible solution to it. Not this mass migration that is coming from WAY more countries than just Syria. Do you think Republicans have a point in saying, "accept Christians and families please! Muslims, no thank you?" Of all the Muslims I talk to they tell me the only hopeful country in the region is Iran. And judging from my own readings it seems to be the only one.
So why would the left keep forcing mass immigration against our will?
What of Mexico? It's full of beautiful and awesome people I agree and I loved my visit there. But I was also robbed within one day of being there which hadn't happened to me once in all my days of being in the west. So maybe.. republicans can say.. BUILD THE WALL? Everyone is "against" the migrant crisis in the sense that they'd rather people were staying back home in a stable country with jobs and prospects etc, hell, I think even the migrants would agree on that. What people disagree with is what to do about it. I'd rather secure borders with camps outside of the EU for processing, screening and so forth and ideally for getting them back home when shit stops hitting the fan there. As for the Muslims coming to the US, no, I don't agree. The hysterical claims of millions of ISIS members crossing into America are false, we are talking small numbers of heavily screened individuals to the point that I feel no more threatened by knowing they're a Muslim than I do by anything else. If there was a murderous army waiting to destroy America and Obama wanted to invite them in I'd object to that policy. But that isn't the reality of the situation, that's a propaganda piece that the far right tell themselves. I work with handful of Muslims day to day from all over the Middle East (foreign students doing their PhDs mostly) and the reality of the situation is that once they get their doctorates they will probably be denied the right to stay in the US due to their backgrounds. Which is insane, they're overqualified for their home nations, they're bright and motivated young men and they're very happy to be in the US. Hell, half of them eat pork. But this is where we end up from fearing the Muslim. The entire argument isn't that there's millions of bloodthirsty radicals that want to hurt us. It's that we don't feel comfortable with our vetting process to guarantee the safety of any given refugee when there's millions of them out there at this point. Do you know what the vetting process is ? I do, Ive been through it. Its not easy. Not at fucking all. Im talking years of my life gone not able to commit to shit waiting for bureaucracy to work long. On June 08 2016 09:11 oBlade wrote:On June 08 2016 09:04 Gorsameth wrote:On June 08 2016 08:58 oBlade wrote:On June 08 2016 08:53 Gorsameth wrote:On June 08 2016 08:49 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On June 08 2016 08:40 Rebs wrote:On June 08 2016 08:37 GGTeMpLaR wrote:On June 08 2016 08:30 KwarK wrote:
[quote]
You're right, the liberal West is far more liberal than the rest of the world. But that's irrelevant to what you said.
You responded to accusations of Trump being a racist by saying that the left thinks all white males are racists. That's enough to respond to an accusation rooted purely in his gender and ethnicity but people aren't calling him a racist because of that, they're calling him a racist because of all the racist things he says and does.
Also I think looking at Saudi Arabia and saying "why should we do more than them?" is pretty silly. It comes down to "let's find the worst people we can so we can feel okay when we're as bad as they are". Just because someone isn't the worst doesn't mean they can't do better. I do not literally believe every leftist believes that every white male is a racist. I am sorry I gave that impression. I was bitterly mocking his conclusion that 'trump's a racist everyone has always known he was a racist' as if it's matter-of-fact. I simply disagree with the notion that Trump should be called a racist or sexist for the things he has said this election cycle. It's just racist scandal after racist scandal from the media and when you look at the actual things he says versus how the media portrays him as 'literally' hitler, it's no wonder he won the republican primary. People are fed up with this authoritarian political correct bullshit trying to police people. Yes I agree bigotry and actual racism and actual sexism and actual homophobia are all very terrible things so I am somewhat understanding of the passion with which the 'progressive left' wants to stamp them out. But the war is over we won it's pretty much dead in the West. Where oppression like this isn't dead is in places ruled by Islamic Law where you ACTUALLY get murdered for dissenting beliefs/behaviors. Trump takes some controversial positions on mexican illegal immigration. Is it nice to deport all the illegal immigrants back to their home country away from our richer welfare state? No. But is it racist? No. Is it racist to point out? No. The MSM would have you believe it is though. It is racist to say that a person by virtue of his ethnicity (and no other evidence) is not doing his sworn duty correctly. It is racist to question that the President of the United States by virtue of his heritage and no other evidence is not an American citizen. Yes it is racist to suggest that. I do not believe that is what Trump did . He has clearly stated motivations for believing that the trial was being conducted unfairly and offered the judge's 'perspective' or 'race' as a possible motivator for why it might be unfair. The organization the judge is a part of clearly indicates he has some stake in Trump's success or not and that his judgment of this trial will directly affect that success. Is that still controversial? Yes. Is it as simple as him judging the judge as being incapable due to his race? No. What narrative is the media selling? You guess If he has clearly states motivations for believing the trial is being conducted unfairly that do not rely on race why have his laywers not tried to have the judge replaced? Why did he take the argument to national tv by using his position as Presidential candidate instead? Is he going to make such statements about judges involved in his (former) business lawsuits when he is President? You keep asking this question, the reason is because standards in the legal system are different than someone's opinion, right? OJ Simpson is not legally a murderer, but a lot of people, when asked, think he killed two people. People attack him all the time for the cases about Trump U. What'd be an unobjectionable way for him to deal with that subject? An unobjectionable way to deal with it would be not abuse his positional as presidential candidate to publicly slander a judge with 0 proof that is making unfavorable rulings in a case he is involved in. The correct way to deal with questions on the subject is "No comment". "No comment," when people use fraud allegations as an attack strategy on one of two candidates for the highest office on the planet? What do you think about his tax returns, can he say "no comment" on that? So the answer to fraud allegations from other people is to attack the one in charge of your trial. Who by the by is completely unrelated to said allegations and is just doing his job. Clever strategy, Except not really. I have a government security clearance so yes I've been through vetting processes and no they are not infallible.
Its cute that you think the vetting process for you and me are the same. GSC isnt even something I could dream off.
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EPT![[image loading]](https://i.sli.mg/4lhmM0.jpg)
