EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 3930
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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23930 Posts
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SK.Testie
Canada11084 Posts
On June 03 2016 15:40 Slaughter wrote: We are in the middle of trying to balance the relative power in our society. It will get messy at times and people will fuck up and go top far. There is some merit to making sure we don't go too far in the opposite direction in the name of being PC. That being said, in the larger picture it hasn't yet but people are reacting as if we are in the liberal version of 1984. People react very viscerally to a few anecdotes and it just creates a mess with two sides who think the other side is causing all the problems in society. Nuance is lost because they are issues that have a large number of complex interactions that are all tied together so its easier for people to grasp onto smaller and simpler views of a particular subject. Everyone just latches on to whatever example is floating around the internet for "their side" and think "Aha! this example proves that this is a widespread thing!" It's no longer an "a ha" or "their side" argument. The right is also voting for their preferred culture. A culture where you're not attacked for supporting the opposing side. I'm not going to say they weren't violent in the past either. When the far left gets in power, people are going to get hurt. When the far right gets into power, people are going to get hurt. That's why Trump for his many, many, many, many faults at least has appeal to both parties. Socially quite liberal, but not going to sell the country out like the old corrupt republican guard. The vast majority of the violence is coming from the left right now. Every violent threat and action is coming from the far left. And the real democrats are too spineless to disavow these pricks publicly because they are so desperate for the vote. There are massive protests everywhere Trump goes. And in each one, we know who the perpetrators are. Major media needs to do a far better job at showing the violence these guys are displaying. This should be headlining every major outlet, because it's beyond fucked up that a man was hit in the head today with a bag of rocks from behind for supporting the opposing candidate. + Show Spoiler + There's a lot of reasons why people are voting for Trump. The right is under an actual attack and democrats see them as the enemy. Samples of today's violence. Anti-trumps attack one of their own + Show Spoiler + https://twitter.com/DefendWallSt/status/738574855206010880 And some high energy: + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](https://i.sli.mg/qbqV79.png) It'll be any day before the left stages a false flag to pretend the violence is even 10% going in the other direction, but it's not. | ||
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NukeD
Croatia1612 Posts
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NukeD
Croatia1612 Posts
On June 03 2016 17:24 SK.Testie wrote: It's no longer an "a ha" or "their side" argument. The right is also voting for their preferred culture. A culture where you're not attacked for supporting the opposing side. I'm not going to say they weren't violent in the past either. When the far left gets in power, people are going to get hurt. When the far right gets into power, people are going to get hurt. That's why Trump for his many, many, many, many faults at least has appeal to both parties. Socially quite liberal, but not going to sell the country out like the old corrupt republican guard. The vast majority of the violence is coming from the left right now. Every violent threat and action is coming from the far left. And the real democrats are too spineless to disavow these pricks publicly because they are so desperate for the vote. There are massive protests everywhere Trump goes. And in each one, we know who the perpetrators are. Major media needs to do a far better job at showing the violence these guys are displaying. This should be headlining every major outlet, because it's beyond fucked up that a man was hit in the head today with a bag of rocks from behind for supporting the opposing candidate. + Show Spoiler + https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmBXNE8gZvI There's a lot of reasons why people are voting for Trump. The right is under an actual attack and democrats see them as the enemy. Samples of today's violence. Anti-trumps attack one of their own + Show Spoiler + https://twitter.com/DefendWallSt/status/738574855206010880 And some high energy: + Show Spoiler + It'll be any day before the left stages a false flag to pretend the violence is even 10% going in the other direction, but it's not. As an outsider I got this immpression aswell. I think its only making Trump stronger however. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23930 Posts
On June 03 2016 17:24 SK.Testie wrote: It's no longer an "a ha" or "their side" argument. The right is also voting for their preferred culture. A culture where you're not attacked for supporting the opposing side. The vast majority of the violence is coming from the left right now. Every violent threat and action is coming from the far left. And the real democrats are too spineless to disavow these pricks publicly because they are so desperate for the vote. There are massive protests everywhere Trump goes. And in each one, we know who the perpetrators are. Major media needs to do a far better job at showing the violence these guys are displaying. This should be headlining every major outlet, because it's beyond fucked up that a man was hit in the head today with a bag of rocks from behind for supporting the opposing candidate. + Show Spoiler + https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmBXNE8gZvI There's a lot of reasons why people are voting for Trump. The right is under an actual attack and democrats see them as the enemy. Samples of today's violence. Anti-trumps attack one of their own + Show Spoiler + https://twitter.com/DefendWallSt/status/738574855206010880 And some high energy: + Show Spoiler + https://i.sli.mg/qbqV79.png It'll be any day before the left stages a false flag to pretend the violence is even 10% going in the other direction, but it's not. Let's be real, the candidates have little to do with these confrontations once they happen. 9/10 times it's a "You're an idiot", "F You" "No F You", "No F Your mother" type confrontation and those go both ways. It's more about people from both sides just being macho jerks most of the time combined with their respective crowds egging it on more loudly than the people trying to prevent it. Plenty of people at these things aren't even voters though, they are just people looking for a reason to get violent and/or just people prone to violence in the first place separate from any political affiliation. But you gotta be kidding me if you're expecting people to believe that Trump doesn't attract his own fair share of people prone to react violently to confrontation or inclined to intentionally try to provoke violence. | ||
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SK.Testie
Canada11084 Posts
On June 03 2016 17:42 GreenHorizons wrote: Let's be real, the candidates have little to do with these confrontations once they happen. 9/10 times it's a "You're an idiot", "F You" "No F You", "No F Your mother" type confrontation and those go both ways. It's more about people from both sides just being macho jerks most of the time combined with their respective crowds egging it on more loudly than the people trying to prevent it. Plenty of people at these things aren't even voters though, they are just people looking for a reason to get violent and/or just people prone to violence in the first place separate from any political affiliation. But you gotta be kidding me if you're expecting people to believe that Trump doesn't attract his own fair share of people prone to react violently to confrontation or inclined to intentionally try to provoke violence. Bullshit. The intimidation and violence is not remotely proportional. Words are not an excuse for fists, or bags of rocks. If Bernie & Hillary both came out publicly disavowing this violence and condemning it in full seriousness, there would be a serious drop off. Neither of them have done it. Zero Trump supporters have went to a Bernie rally to protest despite him wanting a system that could literally destroy the country and make a nice portion of your country Venezuela. And yes I'm pretty sure most of the people in there are Bernouts so Hillary shouldn't have to come out and say it. But I would argue it would look very good for her if she shamed these attackers outright and told them the way to winning is not through violence or intimidation. To basically grow the hell up. Also to NukeD: It's racist to uphold your laws shitlord. Didn't you know, DJT is a cracka ass nigga. -> + Show Spoiler + People who came here must be grandfathered in. #openborders #we'reallhuman #nohumanbeingisillegal This violence cannot stand. Thankfully, it is helping Trump. | ||
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CorsairHero
Canada9491 Posts
On June 03 2016 17:35 NukeD wrote: One thing I don't get is why people attack Trump on his position on illegal immigration. I mean its ILLEGAL, why on earth would you defend it. I think most of us here in europe don't understand the outrage on the idea of deporting ILLEGAL immigrants. What am I missing? they lean left prob nsfw, another normal day in life of the left + Show Spoiler + https://twitter.com/marcusdipaola/status/738572899808743424 disgusting. e: also nice to know r/politics deletes threads about rioters | ||
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WhiteDog
France8650 Posts
On June 03 2016 13:54 Nyxisto wrote: I wonder if Trump was beaten up by a Mexican kid when he was in school and hasn't yet worked it out. Is Trump honestly saying here that having a Mexican judge presents a conflict of interest because Trump happens to hate Mexicans? Isn't it comon fact in the US ? When a black has a trial, you find black people for the jury, and so on ... When a society accept/institute "race" - cultural of biological - as a reality, it create that kind of behavior. Trump is nothing special. | ||
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Fprime
Canada64 Posts
On June 03 2016 16:43 Wegandi wrote: I can't be the only person looking at this as lose-lose. This election is going to be Nero vs Caligula, and in the end we all end up losing. The Democrats and Republicans are god awful. How about we just skip to the end and let bygones be bygones and let the "red" states and "blue" states go their separate ways. Why would anyone want to be in a union with people they hate? This country is beyond dysfunctional. The results on an electoral map are misleading. It's not so much red state vs. blue state as much as it is urban vs. rural. It would not be easy to separate them. That said, given the extreme polarization of US politics (which is increasing), it's quite likely that there will be a breaking point in US society because the different visions for the country are just too far apart. | ||
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Surth
Germany456 Posts
The vast majority of the violence is coming from the left right now. Every violent threat and action is coming from the far left. Systemic violence is bodily violence. We're all being pretty violent right now.On June 03 2016 17:35 NukeD wrote: One thing I don't get is why people attack Trump on his position on illegal immigration. I mean its ILLEGAL, why on earth would you defend it. I think most of us here in europe don't understand the outrage on the idea of deporting ILLEGAL immigrants. What am I missing? I defend very many things that are illegal. Sometimes laws suck. | ||
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NukeD
Croatia1612 Posts
On June 03 2016 19:08 Surth wrote: Systemic violence is bodily violence. We're all being pretty violent right now. I defend very many things that are illegal. Sometimes laws suck. But there are legal ways of getting into a country. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On June 03 2016 20:02 NukeD wrote: But there are legal ways of getting into a country. Not for the people comming here illegally. There is demand for seasonal, temp and short term labor that the immigration system does not address. This has been a problem for nearly 30 years and our politicians refuse to fix it. Instead they promise shit like walls and that they will deport everyone, which will never happen. | ||
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NukeD
Croatia1612 Posts
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Surth
Germany456 Posts
On June 03 2016 20:02 NukeD wrote: But there are legal ways of getting into a country. There are also legal ways for me to watch The Americans and Battlestar Galactica online  And I'm guessing your friends from croatia dont get visas to pursue seasonal labor within californias agricultural system for a pittance. The states adjacent to Mexico actually need illegal immigration economically, because illegal immigrants are more docile. It is not for nothing that most of the "border control" today actually occurs not at the border but within the country, and in many cases has been handed over to local police departments. It is not actually about deporting these people but merely about making them scared and docile, so that they accept shitty, demeaning, underpaid work without even getting a healthcare plan. Making immigration "illegal" is basically just about 1) getting labour more cheaply than when hiring americans while at the same time 2) strengthening ones' political base by blaming unemployment amongst Americans on the evil immigrants that have come to steal your job. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_Reform_and_Control_Act_of_1986 The numbers of specific types of visa that are given out is controlled by congress through the immigration system. And how expensive specific types of visas are and how hard they are to get. The unskilled labor visa that most immigrants from south america are few and hard to get. The numbers do not meet demand. Weirdly enough, the difficulty of getting visas has always been most pronounce in visas that would be used by workers from south america. There are more than enough fashion model visas. And yes, we have a specific fashion model visa. And this problem has existed as long as I have been alive. The main problem with the system the GOP refuses to talk about reform without stepping up deportations before reforms and the DNC wants to provide a path to citizenship for the people who have worked here and paid taxes for decades. And the problem with mass deportations is we are pretty bad at it(we deport the wrong people some times) and it would be super expensive. And the GOP wants to do that before reforms, which will not solve the problem. So we have hit the final level of this political football, which is the wall and legal Hispanic citizens(who are overwhelmingly against mass deportations) being super pissed. This is the final form of a fight that has been brewing for 30 years because our politicians lack leadership. | ||
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Sermokala
United States14113 Posts
On June 03 2016 18:45 Fprime wrote: The results on an electoral map are misleading. It's not so much red state vs. blue state as much as it is urban vs. rural. It would not be easy to separate them. That said, given the extreme polarization of US politics (which is increasing), it's quite likely that there will be a breaking point in US society because the different visions for the country are just too far apart. http://media.hoover.org/sites/default/files/imagecache/large/images/huffmanfigure3.png I can't remember exactly what election this is from but yeah this is what a break up of the nation by politics would look like. | ||
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NukeD
Croatia1612 Posts
Is this acceptable under the current immigrantion requirement policies or do they still need a thorough change? | ||
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NukeD
Croatia1612 Posts
On June 03 2016 20:25 Surth wrote: There are also legal ways for me to watch The Americans and Battlestar Galactica online And I'm guessing your friends from croatia dont get visas to pursue seasonal labor within californias agricultural system for a pittance. The states adjacent to Mexico actually need illegal immigration economically, because illegal immigrants are more docile. It is not for nothing that most of the "border control" today actually occurs not at the border but within the country, and in many cases has been handed over to local police departments. It is not actually about deporting these people but merely about making them scared and docile, so that they accept shitty, demeaning, underpaid work without even getting a healthcare plan. Making immigration "illegal" is basically just about 1) getting labour more cheaply than when hiring americans while at the same time 2) strengthening ones' political base by blaming unemployment amongst Americans on the evil immigrants that have come to steal your job. No, actually they need legal immigration economically. The both sides are at fault then, the immigrants for not obeying immigration laws and the government for not making sensible changes to the system. Anyway I still think people are too outraged by Trump speaking against illegal immigration. | ||
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Blitzkrieg0
United States13132 Posts
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farvacola
United States18857 Posts
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