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On May 06 2016 05:22 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2016 05:08 WhiteDog wrote:On May 06 2016 05:00 Plansix wrote:On May 06 2016 04:53 WhiteDog wrote:On May 06 2016 04:50 Plansix wrote:
Oh, can we please have an in-depth debate of modern feminism with a bunch of dudes on an internet forum. I am sure the views on this shit will be enlightening and nothing I have not heard before. It will be a super productive discussion with zero women involved. Why do we need an in depth debate on modern feminism ? I was not, I was just pointing out the fact that the rather violent tone some of their members created a violent reaction defending "men" and whatnot. How is that discussing modern feminism, it's just a fact. Ok, so you do know that the phrase “kill all men” is a joke, right? It is a response to the 100 year old accusations that feminist hate men. That people have been accusing feminist of wanting to murder men and babies for over a century, ever since they started looking for the vote. So modern feminists started to say they need to Kill All Men so anti-feminist would, like the idiots they are, claim they had been right all along and that it was proof feminist were evil. Its not a great joke, but it is not something anyone should take seriously. None of this stuff is new. The arguments made against feminists are the same arguments that have been made since the term was coined. None of what you are saying is face. It is, in every way, your personal opinion on feminism. Do you know anything about modern feminism ? Like I don't know the idea of rape culture for exemple ? The concept of gender ? The valorization of non "cis" identities ? I'm not saying it's dumb nor unfounded, I actually value the concept of rape culture in some situation and I like Butler to a certain degree, just that the way it is used in actual debate / to describe actual interactions created a backlash, effectively enabling of giving credibility to some misogynist behaviors / theories. Whitedog, I avoid debating you on topics of high level economics simply because I acknowledge that you are better read than me on the topic. I sometimes question some of your assertions, but I keep them to myself simply because I acknowledge I don’t know what the fuck I am talking about. I feel safe in saying you should do the same for feminism in general. You sound like you got all your information and talking points from reddit memes and a 4chan. And with the standard “I support feminism, but not this kind that seems mean or makes me self conscious.” Edit: Um....you said that "modern feminism is part of the cause of the Trump support' and a couple equally dubious claims.
Well my point was that when you are too categoric and too violent in an idea, you enable an opposite reaction (whatever the value of that idea !). I was not discarding the BLM movement, nor feminism as a whole, just saying that the lack of nuance and the violence of some members are counterproductive. If you can't understand this... You, for exemple, point out 4chan, but the average people that do vote for someone like Trump are closer to 4chan than anything.
It's also funny what you say about economy, because my main discipline is actually sociology.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
i have a lot of problems with the tactics and presentation of cultural liberalism etc but at the end of the day it is a deeply humane plea for acceptance and whatnot good shit. have no sympathy for reactionaries to this
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On May 06 2016 05:42 oneofthem wrote:
i have a lot of problems with the tactics and presentation of cultural liberalism etc but at the end of the day it is a deeply humane plea for acceptance and whatnot good shit. have no sympathy for reactionaries to this
Yes, we're all drowning in the left's good intentions. It's the feel good thought that matters! Not the result!
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On May 06 2016 05:32 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2016 05:30 Godwrath wrote:
So, are you saying that fart rape is something of value that should be discussed ? Because that's the kind of stuff that we, the uneducated, actually end up reading. It is really unclear if that is a typo or you are simply a rhetorical question.
I am many things, but never been told to be a rhetorical question.
And no, it is not a typo. You can answer with a simple yes or no if you want to.
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Cultural movements aren't born and introduced into the public sphere with nuance, they become nuanced through continued deliberation that is exposed to public critique and comment. Historically maligned groups like those represented by BLM or "the idiot wing of the feminist movement" are are still learning how to communicate in majoritarian language, so the coarse grain of the message is practically unavoidable, particularly given the difficulty inherent to enforcing a group dynamic message hierarchy with shit like the internet at everyone's fingertips.
Furthermore, it's not as though the style or shape of the message of leftist movements actually matters in the eyes of a reactionary. Even if the BLM movement popped into being full of MLKs, scared white men who are seeing their demographic grasp on society shrink away would still find a way to excuse their refusal to "get with the times," so to speak.
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On May 06 2016 05:40 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2016 05:22 Plansix wrote:On May 06 2016 05:08 WhiteDog wrote:On May 06 2016 05:00 Plansix wrote:On May 06 2016 04:53 WhiteDog wrote:On May 06 2016 04:50 Plansix wrote:
Oh, can we please have an in-depth debate of modern feminism with a bunch of dudes on an internet forum. I am sure the views on this shit will be enlightening and nothing I have not heard before. It will be a super productive discussion with zero women involved. Why do we need an in depth debate on modern feminism ? I was not, I was just pointing out the fact that the rather violent tone some of their members created a violent reaction defending "men" and whatnot. How is that discussing modern feminism, it's just a fact. Ok, so you do know that the phrase “kill all men” is a joke, right? It is a response to the 100 year old accusations that feminist hate men. That people have been accusing feminist of wanting to murder men and babies for over a century, ever since they started looking for the vote. So modern feminists started to say they need to Kill All Men so anti-feminist would, like the idiots they are, claim they had been right all along and that it was proof feminist were evil. Its not a great joke, but it is not something anyone should take seriously. None of this stuff is new. The arguments made against feminists are the same arguments that have been made since the term was coined. None of what you are saying is face. It is, in every way, your personal opinion on feminism. Do you know anything about modern feminism ? Like I don't know the idea of rape culture for exemple ? The concept of gender ? The valorization of non "cis" identities ? I'm not saying it's dumb nor unfounded, I actually value the concept of rape culture in some situation and I like Butler to a certain degree, just that the way it is used in actual debate / to describe actual interactions created a backlash, effectively enabling of giving credibility to some misogynist behaviors / theories. Whitedog, I avoid debating you on topics of high level economics simply because I acknowledge that you are better read than me on the topic. I sometimes question some of your assertions, but I keep them to myself simply because I acknowledge I don’t know what the fuck I am talking about. I feel safe in saying you should do the same for feminism in general. You sound like you got all your information and talking points from reddit memes and a 4chan. And with the standard “I support feminism, but not this kind that seems mean or makes me self conscious.” Edit: Um....you said that "modern feminism is part of the cause of the Trump support' and a couple equally dubious claims. Well my point was that when you are too categoric and too violent in an idea, you enable an opposite reaction (whatever the value of that idea !). I was not discarding the BLM movement, nor feminism as a whole, just saying that the lack of nuance and the violence of some members are counterproductive. If you can't understand this... You, for exemple, point out 4chan, but the average people that do vote for someone like Trump are closer to 4chan than anything. It's also funny what you say about economy, because my main discipline is actually sociology.
Regardless if your specialty, I know when I haven’t done the required reading to debate someone. When it comes to the perception of feminism and BLM in the current era is also caused by a group of people deeply invested in discrediting both movements. Of course there are things to critique, but trust me that any complain you have is discussed within those groups. The key part is that the response is private and not out there to be retweeted or combed over by public at large.
On May 06 2016 05:47 Godwrath wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2016 05:32 Plansix wrote:On May 06 2016 05:30 Godwrath wrote:
So, are you saying that fart rape is something of value that should be discussed ? Because that's the kind of stuff that we, the uneducated, actually end up reading. It is really unclear if that is a typo or you are simply a rhetorical question. I am many things, but never been told to be a rhetorical question. And no, it is not a typo. You can answer with a simple yes or no if you want to.
I will not presume to tell a man how to feel on the topic of fart rape. It is to serious a topic for me to pontificate on.
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On May 06 2016 05:56 farvacola wrote:
Cultural movements aren't born and introduced into the public sphere with nuance, they become nuanced through continued deliberation that is exposed to public critique and comment. Historically maligned groups like those represented by BLM or "the idiot wing of the feminist movement" are are still learning how to communicate in majoritarian language, so the coarse grain of the message is practically unavoidable, particularly given the difficulty inherent to enforcing a group dynamic message hierarchy with shit like the internet at everyone's fingertips.
Furthermore, it's not as though the style or shape of the message of leftist movements actually matters in the eyes of a reactionary. Even if the BLM movement popped into being full of MLKs, scared white men who are seeing their demographic grasp on society shrink away would still find a way to excuse their refusal to "get with the times," so to speak.
Personally, when I compare today's militantism to historical movements, I see today's movements as way more niche, way less diverse and inclusive (and more oriented toward social or economical theory than practical matters). Even the black panther party was more complex and diverse than anything I've come by in modern politics. Might be my own bias tho.
You might be entirely true about the second point. But I'm not sure you can label all potential Trump voters as "reactionary".
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Personally, I find reading up on the way MLK and other progressive movements were covered during their time provides a lot of insight into today’s media coverage. It is both encouraging how far we have come and depressing to see how little the talking points of the opposition have changed.
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On May 06 2016 05:30 Godwrath wrote:
So, are you saying that fart rape is something of value that should be discussed ?
I don't even dare to google that.
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Don't know what that is, don't care to google what that is. All I know is that Plansix visits a part of the internet that most of us don't visit and seems to be well acqainted with it to the point he does some sort of self referential conceptual meme or inside joke. Perhaps this is where he gets his idea of feminism from.
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This is what happens when feminism is brought up. Threads get really weird.
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On May 06 2016 06:17 DickMcFanny wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2016 05:30 Godwrath wrote:
So, are you saying that fart rape is something of value that should be discussed ? I don't even dare to google that.
When a guy named DickMcFanny says he won't Google it, it's probably bad
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I get my ideas of feminism from books, essay and most importantly, women who are feminist. And because of that, I am well acquainted with the standard MRA, anti-feminist talking points that are constantly regurgitated when the topic appears on the internet.
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I wonder if GH is actually sanders? The more apparent it is that sanders has lost, the more desperate and less factual his attacks become, and so too does GH start attacking Hilary more viciously and desperately, with even more conspiracy theories and even fewer facts.
User was warned for this post
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On May 06 2016 06:35 Plansix wrote:
I get my ideas of feminism from books, essay and most importantly, women who are feminist. And because of that, I am well acquainted with the standard MRA, anti-feminist talking points that are constantly regurgitated when the topic appears on the internet.
I think you are so well versed in common anti-arguments that your arguments went so far over my head that I didn't even know what was being discussed 0.0
On May 06 2016 06:37 hunts wrote:
I wonder if GH is actually sanders? The more apparent it is that sanders has lost, the more desperate and less factual his attacks become, and so too does GH start attacking Hilary more viciously and desperately, with even more conspiracy theories and even fewer facts.
You wanna make this thread the best fucking place on Earth? Imagine, as hard as you can, Bernie typing/saying everything GH says. Then imagine the same thing with oneofthem and Clinton. I need to hear Clinton say "Bernista" some time in my life. Followed by that fucking cackle. God damn.
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I'm actually David Brock and Huma Abedin, it just depends what day of the week it is
And I get paid by the Hillary Victory Fund
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On May 06 2016 06:38 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2016 06:37 hunts wrote:
I wonder if GH is actually sanders? The more apparent it is that sanders has lost, the more desperate and less factual his attacks become, and so too does GH start attacking Hilary more viciously and desperately, with even more conspiracy theories and even fewer facts. You wanna make this thread the best fucking place on Earth? Imagine, as hard as you can, Bernie typing/saying everything GH says. Then imagine the same thing with oneofthem and Clinton. I need to hear Clinton say "Bernista" some time in my life. Followed by that fucking cackle. God damn.
Which posters can I imagine as Trump or Lucifer?
And please let's not discuss feminism in this thread. We're all guys. The discussion gets extremely stupid when it's discussed with a 100% male group.
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On May 06 2016 06:56 andrewlt wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2016 06:38 Mohdoo wrote:On May 06 2016 06:37 hunts wrote:
I wonder if GH is actually sanders? The more apparent it is that sanders has lost, the more desperate and less factual his attacks become, and so too does GH start attacking Hilary more viciously and desperately, with even more conspiracy theories and even fewer facts. You wanna make this thread the best fucking place on Earth? Imagine, as hard as you can, Bernie typing/saying everything GH says. Then imagine the same thing with oneofthem and Clinton. I need to hear Clinton say "Bernista" some time in my life. Followed by that fucking cackle. God damn. Which posters can I imagine as Trump or Lucifer? And please let's not discuss feminism in this thread. We're all guys. The discussion gets extremely stupid when it's discussed with a 100% male group.
Trump poster is probably perm banned
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FWIW that vid is old and the guy asked a question that supported that inference
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EPT
