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On May 05 2016 02:31 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2016 02:26 Nyxisto wrote:On May 05 2016 02:19 oneofthem wrote:
electorate is dumb enough to elect a populist. the most important short term issue is preserving the center against extremists purely on ground of not being entirely detached from reality. then the establishment should take seriously the economic drivers of discontent.
I really don't think that the drivers behind this discontent are economic in nature, just look at the same kind of populist movements in the economically stable European countries. The issues run much deeper and are more about increasingly nativist voterbases being fed up with the democratic parliamentary process as a whole. People are fed up with the people they elect not working. They have had it for 6 years since the tea party came along. People want leadership and for them to address critical issues like campaign finance, student loans, wage stagnation and so on. The problem is that both parties are leaned heavy into their base, the GOP a little more so. They dislike the system, but only because it isn't working for them right now. Edit: Without Nixon and the Southern Strategy, there would be no Trump. He is Southern Strategy's final form.
I mean the US is kind of extreme given the degree of obstruction but the democratic process by its very nature is slow as hell. That's how democracies work. When people call for "God emperor Trump" this isn't just a meme, they literally seem to want a savior that solves all their personal problems at a rapid pace. And this just isn't going to work in a democracy. That's why they have no problem with Trump lying to them because that's actually what they want to hear. You can not solve the fallout of the financial crisis, the refugee crisis, civil wars over the course of one or two presidential periods.
And this is a pretty big problem for democracy and I don't think some economic bandaid is going to solve that.
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So I just read Kasich dropped out of the race as well. Why so soon? Should've stayed in till the end imo.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
i would accept bernie as the white house gardener. maybe that's a ticket.
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On May 05 2016 02:37 RvB wrote:
So I just read Kasich dropped out of the race as well. Why so soon? Should've stayed in till the end imo.
Probably because Cruz dropping means that there's no way it will be a contested convention.
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Kasich fulfilled the role of spoiling some states, while doing nothing in the blue states he was supposed to hold Trump down in. His mission is accomplished, even if he didn't know what it was.
And Trump most vetted? Maybe, but the media hasn't even begun to share their findings yet. There is so much on him that they can keep his negatives sky high for months before Nov.
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On May 05 2016 01:37 zeo wrote:
So with Trump being the most vetted presidential candidate in history how does the Clinton campaign approach him? Literally everything has been thrown at him, people got so desperate that they resorted to using his great great grandfather (allegedly) changing his surname as a slur. Thats how desperate they got.
Every negative thing about him has been exposed and thoroughly talked about to oblivion and he has just gotten stronger and stronger. There will be nothing new and shocking, every negative thing has already been said and people have become numb to it.
Also he hasn't even started going after Hilary, and she barely held off Sanders. Hilary is basically the definition of 'skeletons in the closet'... there quite literally could be dead bodies in her closet and I wouldn't be surprised.
Clinton has been the Republicans target for decades, they did everything to discredit her and all we got was Benghazi and email-gate. Every dirt they could have found has been used already.
Nor does she need to dirty up Trump, she can run the entire campaign on "I am like Obama, and I am not Trump" because Trump will open his mouth and provide all the evidence that he would make a terrible president on his own.
He has the support of half the Republicans and is hated by everyone else.
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On May 05 2016 02:37 RvB wrote:
So I just read Kasich dropped out of the race as well. Why so soon? Should've stayed in till the end imo.
I was hoping he'll announce his VP soon
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And unlike the GOP, the Democrats don't need to be concerned with alienating Trump voters or his base at all. This is one of the larger problems the GOP and their super PACs faced.
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On May 05 2016 02:54 Sent. wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2016 02:37 RvB wrote:
So I just read Kasich dropped out of the race as well. Why so soon? Should've stayed in till the end imo. I was hoping he'll announce his VP soon
Good one. 
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On May 05 2016 01:40 Plansix wrote:
Most vetted president? We don't even have his tax returns.
And Hilary didn't barely hold off Sanders. The media played that race up to be a lot closer than it was, because no one watches if its not close.
Hillary is the only person who lost last night and didn't drop out 
If they made the D race "look closer than it is" (which is total non-sense) what do you call what they did with the Republican race? Remember they've spent months talking about a Republican contested convention when it's the Democrats who are going to one.
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On May 05 2016 03:06 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2016 01:40 Plansix wrote:
Most vetted president? We don't even have his tax returns.
And Hilary didn't barely hold off Sanders. The media played that race up to be a lot closer than it was, because no one watches if its not close. Hillary is the only person who lost last night and didn't drop out If they made the D race "look closer than it is" (which is total non-sense) what do you call what they did with the Republican race? Remember they've spent months talking about a Republican contested convention when it's the Democrats who are going to one.
how do you go to a contested convention with 2 candidates?
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On May 05 2016 02:31 pmh wrote:
Ok,after going through several scenarios I think there is one scenario that allows Clinton to beat Trump.
Sanders as vp with Clinton. It will allow to keep the support of young idealistic people while at the same time keep the fear that sanders will turn the usa into a socialist state at bay by having Clinton in charge.
Now I don't know enough about this election to tell if this is a likely option for both Clinton and sanders.
Would sanders be willing to have a more or less symbolical role and would Clinton be willing to work with sanders.
Any insight on this is welcome, is this a likely combination for the democratic ticket?
That's actually the exact opposite, namely the scenario that makes Clinton the weakest for the general election. Not only would all of Sanders' glaring weaknesses be happily exploited by the GOP to bring down the ticket, but you would have even more ads quoting Sanders' attacks on Clinton on loop until November. It's the worst idea possible.
On May 05 2016 03:07 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2016 03:06 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 05 2016 01:40 Plansix wrote:
Most vetted president? We don't even have his tax returns.
And Hilary didn't barely hold off Sanders. The media played that race up to be a lot closer than it was, because no one watches if its not close. Hillary is the only person who lost last night and didn't drop out If they made the D race "look closer than it is" (which is total non-sense) what do you call what they did with the Republican race? Remember they've spent months talking about a Republican contested convention when it's the Democrats who are going to one. how do you go to a contested convention with 2 candidates?
Using Bernie math (and the Bernie definition of "contested").
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On May 05 2016 03:06 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2016 01:40 Plansix wrote:
Most vetted president? We don't even have his tax returns.
And Hilary didn't barely hold off Sanders. The media played that race up to be a lot closer than it was, because no one watches if its not close. If they made the D race "look closer than it is" (which is total non-sense) what do you call what they did with the Republican race? Remember they've spent months talking about a Republican contested convention when it's the Democrats who are going to one.
We all knew NY and the northeast would eliminate Bernie months ago. You and a few others were the only ones yelling about polls being inaccurate. Our goddess got 10% higher than she needed while spending her time in Ohio. They made both races out to be closer than they were. That's how news works.
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On May 05 2016 03:07 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2016 03:06 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 05 2016 01:40 Plansix wrote:
Most vetted president? We don't even have his tax returns.
And Hilary didn't barely hold off Sanders. The media played that race up to be a lot closer than it was, because no one watches if its not close. Hillary is the only person who lost last night and didn't drop out If they made the D race "look closer than it is" (which is total non-sense) what do you call what they did with the Republican race? Remember they've spent months talking about a Republican contested convention when it's the Democrats who are going to one. how do you go to a contested convention with 2 candidates?
When one of them has a 3 million vote lead and more delegates across the board.
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On May 05 2016 03:07 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2016 03:06 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 05 2016 01:40 Plansix wrote:
Most vetted president? We don't even have his tax returns.
And Hilary didn't barely hold off Sanders. The media played that race up to be a lot closer than it was, because no one watches if its not close. Hillary is the only person who lost last night and didn't drop out If they made the D race "look closer than it is" (which is total non-sense) what do you call what they did with the Republican race? Remember they've spent months talking about a Republican contested convention when it's the Democrats who are going to one. how do you go to a contested convention with 2 candidates?
Your talking to GreenHorizons, who thinks that the Super delegates, who's purpose is to protect he establisment, will go against the establisment and overturn both the popular vote and the delegate lead to vote Bernie Sanders as the next democratic presidential candidate.
Oh and please ignore the fact that Hillary leads 520 to 39 in super delegate pledges.
aka GH is delusional.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
the real ugliness is basically the misinformation trump will unleash on the liberal order of things. this is not easy to stop because of a combination of the likely attack being somewhat true and the difficulty of figuring out why this is, and why trump doesn't work. it's basically up to identity politics and minorities to save the day.
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On May 05 2016 03:07 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2016 03:06 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 05 2016 01:40 Plansix wrote:
Most vetted president? We don't even have his tax returns.
And Hilary didn't barely hold off Sanders. The media played that race up to be a lot closer than it was, because no one watches if its not close. Hillary is the only person who lost last night and didn't drop out If they made the D race "look closer than it is" (which is total non-sense) what do you call what they did with the Republican race? Remember they've spent months talking about a Republican contested convention when it's the Democrats who are going to one. how do you go to a contested convention with 2 candidates?
Neither candidate will have enough pledged delegates by the convention.
GH is delusional.
Pretty sure the same was said when I said Bernie wouldn't drop out early, guess we know who was right about that.
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On May 05 2016 03:07 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2016 03:06 GreenHorizons wrote:On May 05 2016 01:40 Plansix wrote:
Most vetted president? We don't even have his tax returns.
And Hilary didn't barely hold off Sanders. The media played that race up to be a lot closer than it was, because no one watches if its not close. Hillary is the only person who lost last night and didn't drop out If they made the D race "look closer than it is" (which is total non-sense) what do you call what they did with the Republican race? Remember they've spent months talking about a Republican contested convention when it's the Democrats who are going to one. how do you go to a contested convention with 2 candidates?
Bernie's definition of contested means that unless Hillary wins on pledged delegates alone, the convention is contested. She'll obviously go over the limit when they add in superdelegates, but I guess it's just a line of logic he wants to use to gain some leverage in the party.
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If Bernie wins the rest of the states by last night's margins ... he loses on the pledged delegates. Time to drop out.
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EPT
