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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

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DickMcFanny
Profile Blog Joined September 2015
Ireland1076 Posts
December 11 2015 11:15 GMT
#52961
Bergdahl is on this week's Serial Podcast. Listening to it right now.
| (• ◡•)|╯ ╰(❍ᴥ❍ʋ)
m4ini
Profile Joined February 2014
4215 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-12-11 14:02:36
December 11 2015 13:28 GMT
#52962
Sharia Law calls for a theocracy, it calls for violently pushing it's views on others. Apostasy is punishable by death under Sharia Law. I'm not entirely sure why m4ini seems to be trying to defend it, or at least that's what I felt following this conversation. Sharia is a guideline that spreads religion through violence.


Please. Don't talk to me about ignorance, if you don't even realize what sharia law actually is. I don't want to come off as an asshole, especially since we never argued before, but arguing in your case without having a borderline understanding what sharia law actually is, is stupid.

I don't defend sharia law. At least not the punishment part of it. Because, and there's the funny part, sharia law is very, even by fucking definition, interpretable. Hell, if you're lazy af, you can just read the wikipedia page about sharia law, and you'll understand that.

Sharia law is already used in the UK to govern certain things (legally binding), not to spread religion through violence. That by itself should tell you that your representation of what you think sharia law is is just utter bullshit, and pretty much goes hand in hand with what ISIS thinks sharia law is. Now, you can call me ignorant, but fact of the matter is, you have the same understanding of sharia law as the ISIS, where the rest of the muslim world for the most part disagrees with that view. Including, as i directly quoted, the Lord Chief of Justice (just using the full title because it actually sounds cool) of the UK. And again, don't think i'm ass, but i will take his word over yours and especially eskandiotyas every day. Any day. At all times. Because, and here's the funny part, he had to actually get familiar with sharia law and how it was implemented in the UK.

edit:

I just don't understand how you think the two things practically match in sentiment if you think Sharia law is an actual religious legal system when 41% of those polled in the Center for Security Policy poll thought that Shariah is a guide to the personal practice of Islam, 25% thought it was a comprehensive program governing all aspects of a faithful Muslims' life, and only 11% said that it was the Muslim god Allah's law that must be followed and imposed worldwide.


Here's a good example of what people thought they vote about. Sharia law for example "governs" things like Ramadan, pilgrimages, the direction and frequency of prayers, etc. That's one part. The other is that it's clearly stated that almost all muslims in the western world want sharia law as an option for family disputes. You know, something christians already have, because most laws in regards to for example marriage are based on definitions of the bible.

51% want sharia law!!!11 is only a big deal if you don't add what they actually mean by sharia law. It's like me saying 95% of americans are totally fine with mass killings, and support them heavily!!!11, and leaving out the fact that the poll was about meat production. It's sensationalist.

edit: to be clear (and i understand now what Kwark meant), i don't support the views or actions of ISIS, that'd be stupid. Neither do i condone corporal punishment, btw not only in sharia law (yeah, looking at you, americans). But if someone religious says "i want my marriage problem solved in accordance to my beliefs", he certainly should have the option of arbitration (in the legal frame of the country he lives in), for example. And that is what the majority of those polls said (the PEW poll actually clarifies that too).
On track to MA1950A.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
December 11 2015 14:00 GMT
#52963
High-stakes climate talks aiming to craft a global accord to combat climate change stumbled Friday with China and many other nations refusing to yield ground, forcing host France to extend the international summit by a day to overcome stubborn divisions.

The difficult talks will continue as diplomats try to overcome disagreements over how — or even whether — to share the costs of fighting climate change and shift to clean energy on a global scale.

Negotiators from more than 190 countries are trying to do something that's never been done: reach a deal for all countries to reduce man-made carbon emissions and cooperate to adapt to rising seas and increasingly extreme weather caused by human activity.

U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry zipped in and out of negotiation rooms as delegates broke into smaller groups overnight to iron out their differences. After talks wrapped up at nearly 6 a.m. (0500 GMT) Friday, French Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius said he is aiming for a final draft Saturday.

"There is still work to do ... things are going in the right direction," Fabius said." This represents all of the countries in the world and it's completely normal to take a bit of time, so we will shift it."

The two-week talks, the culmination of years of U.N.-led efforts for a long-term climate deal, had been scheduled to wrap up Friday. U.N. climate conferences often run past deadline, given the complexity and sensitivity of each word in an international agreement, and the consequences for national economies.

Negotiators from China, the U.S. and other nations are haggling over how to share the burden of fighting climate change. Some delegates said a new draft accord presented late Thursday by Fabius allowed rich nations to shift the responsibility to the developing world.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Jibba
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States22883 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-12-11 14:44:34
December 11 2015 14:34 GMT
#52964
On December 11 2015 15:01 writer22816 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 11 2015 14:35 KwarK wrote:
On December 11 2015 14:03 LuckyFool wrote:
Eskendereya, keep in mind you may be arguing with people who view basically all fundamentalist religion as an equal threat to secularism. Generally from a liberal/secularist standpoint, christian law, sharia law, any "religious" law can be viewed as an equal threat (for possibly different reasons) to secularism.

As a result of this (and maybe also just ignorance, or lack of real understanding or time spent in religious study) many secularists fail to properly identify that not all religions are the same, even though from their standpoint, all religions pose equal risk to secularism.

Sharia Law calls for a theocracy, it calls for violently pushing it's views on others. Apostasy is punishable by death under Sharia Law. I'm not entirely sure why m4ini seems to be trying to defend it, or at least that's what I felt following this conversation. Sharia is a guideline that spreads religion through violence.

Christianity calls for things that may remove personal liberty, making abortion illegal for example is something that is viewed as a threat to a secularist. But this is far from being as dangerous as someone who will kill you if you refuse to accept their belief system.

When the Smithsonian displays an urn with a portrait of Jesus in urine, you may find fundamentalist Christians praying for the people who came up with the display. When Charlie Hebdo publishes satirical cartoons of Mohammad, they get shot. Someone like Ayaan Hirsi Ali needs personal protection when she makes major public appearances criticizing Islam...

Muslims extremists seem to do more batshit insane things but as a group they have no power beyond that we grant them by grossly disproportionate responses to their acting out. Terrorists do something evil, we all agree it's evil, no real debate to have. If we had an "ISIS: Good or bad?" topic I would be all over that arguing bad but we don't.

Now Christian crazies, they actually control one of the major two parties in this country. Carson's beliefs are dangerous to the world in a very real way that ISIS could never rival. Rubio's belief that religious law overrides earthly laws is antithetical to everything I believe this country should be. Then there is the active campaigning from Federal all the way down to local to use government force to push beliefs, from bullshit local laws designed purely to fuck with planned parenthood to zoning complaints against mosques to Trump's xenophobia.

ISIS are cunts but they're not a threat. I'm not saying that individual Christian extremists are literally the same as ISIS, they're not, although I suspect a lot of them probably would act the same way if you separated them from the system and society that currently empowers them to act through other means. Christian extremism is a far more real threat because there are a lot of them and they have far more power due to being an entrenched part of the system. ISIS sympathizers can shoot up a school but they can't change the curriculum. That's the difference.

Christianity is the greater threat to secularism. ISIS will lose, Christian America has made huge strides over the last century as America became increasingly hostile and insular and in an effort to define itself and its place in the world picked Christianity, rather than secularism, as a key part of its national identity. Ground has been lost.


Everyone knows that the Christian right is a huge problem in this country, but some of your assertions are just baffling. Carson's beliefs are more dangerous than those of ISIS? Really? That evolution was inspired by Satan and that the earth is only 6000 years old are profoundly idiotic beliefs but they are not worse than thinking it's okay to rape women and kill infidels, not by any reasonable definition of 'dangerous'. Likewise Rubio's belief is remarkable in America but, as we've discussed over the last pages, is more or less the status quo in the Muslim world.

Also a big reason why the Christian right has been gaining ground is because people on the left have not only refused to address the problem of Islamic extremism but have steadfastly sought to silence any civilized discussion on the topic with cries of 'racism' and 'bigotry' and 'Islamophobia'. This leaves the field clear to people like Trump to mouth off with whatever garbage they want.

The death toll from ISIS is pretty minimal if you're not Syrian/Iraqi. It doesn't have much control of anything outside its borders, however, unlike AQ and groups in the past, it's willing to co-opt anyone else's work rather than just claim its own.

The threat to us comes from alienating young Muslims in western countries, who rebel against their parents' nationalistic views and take issue with our involvement in Iraq and Syria. They're idiots, but they're the ones threatening us. They exist, in large part, because we've built up such a moronic anti-terrorism view over the last 15 years. Going to war with ISIS itself isn't going to make us safer from that group.

I don't know what civilized discussions of religion you're talking about, but it hasn't existed in this country for 20+ years. The calls of bigotry come out because that's exactly what we hear from idiots like Beck, Hannity and Jones. They're bigots. They're not holding civilized and evidence-based discussions on anything, let alone religion. If you want to find a root of this, look no further than their brand of fear mongering, not the people who call them bigots in response.
ModeratorNow I'm distant, dark in this anthrobeat
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-12-11 14:56:24
December 11 2015 14:55 GMT
#52965
When he is president, Donald Trump declared upon receiving the endorsement of the New England Benevolent Police Association, a union representing police and corrections officers on Thursday, he will sign an executive order to make sure any person who kills a cop will get the death penalty.

‘‘I said that one of the first things I'd do in terms of executive order if I win will be sign a strong, strong statement that will go out to the country, out to the world, that anybody killing policemen, police woman, police officer, anybody killing a police officer, death penalty is going to happen, OK. Can't go. We can't let this go," Trump said at a hotel ballroom in Portsmouth, New Hampshire, after his meeting with the group, according to remarks and video posted by The Associated Press.

In an emailed statement released through his campaign after a private meeting with the New England group, Trump announced that he had won the association's support.

“I am incredibly honored to receive this endorsement. My entire life has been spent defending the police and the incredible job they do. Especially today, they will play an increasingly vital part in making our nation safe. With their support and hard work together we will Make America Great Again," he said.

His campaign's release stated that he "was the overwhelming choice by the entire association."


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
December 11 2015 15:16 GMT
#52966
I was already not a huge fan of police unions, but the fact that that one is based in my state and represents a lot of officers in my area makes me angry and concerned.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States44203 Posts
December 11 2015 15:25 GMT
#52967
You know I was planning on killing some police officers but that proposed law really acts as a deterrent. I guess I won't.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
December 11 2015 15:33 GMT
#52968
Remember, the lives of people who enforce the state’s will through the threat force are inherently more valuable than common citizens.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
OuchyDathurts
Profile Joined September 2010
United States4588 Posts
December 11 2015 15:36 GMT
#52969
How would that even work in states with no death penalty? lol.
LiquidDota Staff
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
December 11 2015 15:40 GMT
#52970
Murder and other crimes of violence are all handled at the state level. I would need to check, but I don't think there is even a federal law prohibiting murder in the 50 states. There could be laws for murders committed at sea or something that isn't covered by the states. Trump is talking out his ass as normal.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
December 11 2015 15:40 GMT
#52971
If Republican party bosses continue meeting to discuss how to derail Donald Trump at the convention, Trump won't be the only one to turn his back on the GOP. Now, retired neurosurgeon Ben Carson says he'll leave too.

"If this was the beginning of the plan to subvert the will of the voters and replace them with the will of the political elite, I assure you Donald Trump will not be the only one leaving the party," Carson said in reference to a private dinner attended in Washington by 20 party officials including Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell and RNC Chairman Reince Priebus.

According to the report in the Washington Post, Republican leaders are preparing now for what to do if they get to the convention in July and Trump is still holding on to a major chunk of the primary vote, but has not become the clear nominee. The topic of the dinner was peculiar as Trump has been the clear frontrunner in the GOP primary for nearly five months.

"I pray that the report in the Post this morning was incorrect. If it is correct," Carson said. "If it is correct, every voter who is standing for change must know they are being betrayed. I won't stand for it," Carson said.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain18387 Posts
December 11 2015 15:47 GMT
#52972
On December 12 2015 00:40 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Show nested quote +
If Republican party bosses continue meeting to discuss how to derail Donald Trump at the convention, Trump won't be the only one to turn his back on the GOP. Now, retired neurosurgeon Ben Carson says he'll leave too.

"If this was the beginning of the plan to subvert the will of the voters and replace them with the will of the political elite, I assure you Donald Trump will not be the only one leaving the party," Carson said in reference to a private dinner attended in Washington by 20 party officials including Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell and RNC Chairman Reince Priebus.

According to the report in the Washington Post, Republican leaders are preparing now for what to do if they get to the convention in July and Trump is still holding on to a major chunk of the primary vote, but has not become the clear nominee. The topic of the dinner was peculiar as Trump has been the clear frontrunner in the GOP primary for nearly five months.

"I pray that the report in the Post this morning was incorrect. If it is correct," Carson said. "If it is correct, every voter who is standing for change must know they are being betrayed. I won't stand for it," Carson said.


Source

You mean the GOP can get rid of both Trump AND Carson in one fell swoop? Any chance Cruz will join this list?
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
December 11 2015 15:51 GMT
#52973
Ted Cruz’s presidential campaign is using psychological data based on research spanning tens of millions of Facebook users, harvested largely without their permission, to boost his surging White House run and gain an edge over Donald Trump and other Republican rivals, the Guardian can reveal.

A little-known data company, now embedded within Cruz’s campaign and indirectly financed by his primary billionaire benefactor, paid researchers at Cambridge University to gather detailed psychological profiles about the US electorate using a massive pool of mainly unwitting US Facebook users built with an online survey.

As part of an aggressive new voter-targeting operation, Cambridge Analytica – financially supported by reclusive hedge fund magnate and leading Republican donor Robert Mercer – is now using so-called “psychographic profiles” of US citizens in order to help win Cruz votes, despite earlier concerns and red flags from potential survey-takers.

Documents seen by the Guardian have uncovered longstanding ethical and privacy issues about the way academics hoovered up personal data by accessing a vast set of US Facebook profiles, in order to build sophisticated models of users’ personalities without their knowledge.

In the race to advance data-driven electioneering strategies pioneered by successive Obama campaigns, Cruz has turned to Cambridge Analytica for its unparalleled offering of psychological data based on a treasure trove of Facebook “likes”, allowing it to match individuals’ traits with existing voter datasets, such as who owned a gun.

Analysis of Federal Election Commission (FEC) filings shows Cruz’s campaign has paid Cambridge Analytica at least $750,000 this year. The “behavioural microtargeting” company has also received around $2.5m over the past two years from conservative Super Pacs to which Mercer or members of his family have donated.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain18387 Posts
December 11 2015 15:55 GMT
#52974
I don't think Cruz is doing anything the other candidates don't. Mining facebook for data is kinda obvious.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
December 11 2015 15:58 GMT
#52975
That article is way longer and people should read it. It is a little unnerving how willing Cruz is to gain an edge in race and profile people without approval. I will be interested to see if Facebook shuts them down, because I know Facebook has talked about the servicing being used for political profiling directly hurts them in marketing and retention.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15743 Posts
December 11 2015 16:05 GMT
#52976
On December 12 2015 00:58 Plansix wrote:
That article is way longer and people should read it. It is a little unnerving how willing Cruz is to gain an edge in race and profile people without approval. I will be interested to see if Facebook shuts them down, because I know Facebook has talked about the servicing being used for political profiling directly hurts them in marketing and retention.


IMO, anything public on the internet has assumed permission. When someone decides to put something on the internet, it is essentially public record. And so ends the only point in my life that I can imagine myself defending Cruz.
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States46237 Posts
December 11 2015 16:10 GMT
#52977
On December 12 2015 00:47 Acrofales wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 12 2015 00:40 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
If Republican party bosses continue meeting to discuss how to derail Donald Trump at the convention, Trump won't be the only one to turn his back on the GOP. Now, retired neurosurgeon Ben Carson says he'll leave too.

"If this was the beginning of the plan to subvert the will of the voters and replace them with the will of the political elite, I assure you Donald Trump will not be the only one leaving the party," Carson said in reference to a private dinner attended in Washington by 20 party officials including Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell and RNC Chairman Reince Priebus.

According to the report in the Washington Post, Republican leaders are preparing now for what to do if they get to the convention in July and Trump is still holding on to a major chunk of the primary vote, but has not become the clear nominee. The topic of the dinner was peculiar as Trump has been the clear frontrunner in the GOP primary for nearly five months.

"I pray that the report in the Post this morning was incorrect. If it is correct," Carson said. "If it is correct, every voter who is standing for change must know they are being betrayed. I won't stand for it," Carson said.


Source

You mean the GOP can get rid of both Trump AND Carson in one fell swoop? Any chance Cruz will join this list?


If Trump and Carson both leave the Republican party and still run for president, then the Republicans have zero chance of winning the election, and I'd imagine that the Republican party candidate will not just get second place to Hillary/ Bernie, but possibly either third or fourth place after Trump and Carson too. Cue the Mr. Burns "Ehhhhhhxcellent!" cackle!
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
December 11 2015 16:13 GMT
#52978
On December 12 2015 01:05 Mohdoo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 12 2015 00:58 Plansix wrote:
That article is way longer and people should read it. It is a little unnerving how willing Cruz is to gain an edge in race and profile people without approval. I will be interested to see if Facebook shuts them down, because I know Facebook has talked about the servicing being used for political profiling directly hurts them in marketing and retention.


IMO, anything public on the internet has assumed permission. When someone decides to put something on the internet, it is essentially public record. And so ends the only point in my life that I can imagine myself defending Cruz.

Your opinion is noted, but not reality. Facebook owns that data, not the public. Public record is held by the state, not private companies that sell it.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Kickstart
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States1941 Posts
December 11 2015 16:38 GMT
#52979
Yeah. Trump or anyone leaving the party and running is going to take away any chance the Republicans had of winning the presidency.
*hopes they all do*
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
December 11 2015 16:39 GMT
#52980
On December 12 2015 01:05 Mohdoo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 12 2015 00:58 Plansix wrote:
That article is way longer and people should read it. It is a little unnerving how willing Cruz is to gain an edge in race and profile people without approval. I will be interested to see if Facebook shuts them down, because I know Facebook has talked about the servicing being used for political profiling directly hurts them in marketing and retention.


IMO, anything public on the internet has assumed permission. When someone decides to put something on the internet, it is essentially public record. And so ends the only point in my life that I can imagine myself defending Cruz.

This is pretty much correct. The data that Facebook collects could be considered proprietary trade secret data if it was kept confidential and secure. But because it's not, it's fair game for people like Cruz to collect.
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