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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 1784

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
March 31 2015 17:19 GMT
#35661
On April 01 2015 01:13 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Except Cruz is already having an affect on the GOP primary race. Look at Rand Paul who now says Religion is needed in government and that gay marriage is a result of lost morality in the country, and Bush supporting Pence in Indiana.


Thats not really Cruz, its creepy Iowa. There's always a pre-primary season push by Republicans to try and strip Iowa and New Hampshire of importance, but it never pans out.
Freeeeeeedom
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
March 31 2015 17:51 GMT
#35662
WASHINGTON – The United States officially submitted its emissions-cutting target to the United Nations on Tuesday morning, formalizing its commitment to reducing emissions 26 to 28 percent below 2005 levels by 2025.

The Obama administration had previously announced the goal in its work with China on a bilateral climate agreement. The Tuesday submission makes the pledge official.

"With today’s submission of the U.S. target, countries accounting for more than half of total carbon pollution from the energy sector have submitted or announced what they will do in the post-2020 period to combat climate change," wrote Brian Deese, senior adviser to the president, in a blog post Tuesday morning.

Under a system established through the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change, individual countries are putting forward their own emissions commitments, referred to as Intended Nationally Determined Contributions, or INDCs. Countries are supposed to submit their INDCs to the U.N. by March 31. The submissions will be the basis for an international climate agreement, which leaders expect to reach at the upcoming negotiation session in Paris at the end of 2015.

The U.S. described its target as "fair and ambitious" in the U.N. document, and said that the country has already undertaken "substantial policy action to reduce its emissions." The submission says that the U.S. is already on a path to reach its previously submitted goal of cutting emissions 17 percent by 2020, and the new commitment will require the country to speed up its rate of emissions reduction.

The European Union, Norway and Mexico submitted their commitments last week.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
always_winter
Profile Joined February 2015
United States195 Posts
March 31 2015 18:56 GMT
#35663
On April 01 2015 01:13 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Except Cruz is already having an affect on the GOP primary race. Look at Rand Paul who now says Religion is needed in government and that gay marriage is a result of lost morality in the country, and Bush supporting Pence in Indiana.


Link on the Paul statement? That's a game-changer and a strong deviation from past remarks.
puerk
Profile Joined February 2015
Germany855 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-03-31 19:06:27
March 31 2015 19:03 GMT
#35664
http://cbn.com/tv/embedplayernews.aspx?bcid=4136727089001

He is doing the full dance with the dog whistle, and in my mind utterly failing.. portraying gay couples as amoral in the face of american politics is ridiculous beyond belief.
dAPhREAk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Nauru12397 Posts
March 31 2015 19:06 GMT
#35665
something i have been pondering for awhile. are the foreigners in this thread (i.e., people who list countries other than U.S.), expats? if not, i am genuinely curious why foreigners know and care so much about U.S. politics.
always_winter
Profile Joined February 2015
United States195 Posts
March 31 2015 19:14 GMT
#35666
On April 01 2015 04:03 puerk wrote:
http://cbn.com/tv/embedplayernews.aspx?bcid=4136727089001

He is doing the full dance with the dog whistle, and in my mind utterly failing.. portraying gay couples as amoral in the face of american politics is ridiculous beyond belief.


/facepalm

This dude needs to stop saying stupid shit. He didn't explicitly state gay marriage, but he didn't need to; it's obvious it's what he was referring to. I assume, based on his initial remarks, that this was in front of a fervently-religious far-right audience, and he was likely pandering to his audience, but it doesn't excuse the remark in the slightest.

To me, this is a lot like what Netanyahu did before his election. He appeased his far-right fanbase by claiming he had no intention of supporting a two-state solution, in a last-ditch effort to sway votes, then simply changed his message after winning the election. I've seen interviews with Paul where liberals ask him his viewpoint on gay marriage, whether he's willing to change his opinion and so on/so forth, and during these interviews he caters to the liberal audience. I've long heralded Paul as an anti-establishment politician, but as he nears the podium in 2016 his rhetoric is already changing.
puerk
Profile Joined February 2015
Germany855 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-03-31 19:21:41
March 31 2015 19:20 GMT
#35667
since this question came up (in an alternate form) earlier in this thread i might expand on my answer from back then: you are seeing a bias to american politics on a forum that activly discusses the topic, with a wealth of content and good debates, that has a draw.
the second issue: american politics are the opposite of provincial, they are petty, but they put an extreme effort into appearances and are produced to generate lots of interesting content.
and lastly: the stakes are so high.
Nyxisto
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6287 Posts
March 31 2015 19:24 GMT
#35668
This isn't because he's pandering to the far-right, but because the "libertarian-base" actually is very right-wing.

+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]
Millitron
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States2611 Posts
March 31 2015 19:53 GMT
#35669
On April 01 2015 04:24 Nyxisto wrote:
This isn't because he's pandering to the far-right, but because the "libertarian-base" actually is very right-wing.

+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]

Not everyone who identifies as "libertarian" is a libertarian. There definitely are Libertarians in Name Only, just like how there are DINO's and RINO's.

There's simply no reconciling being anti-gay marriage, and libertarianism. The two are mutually exclusive.
Who called in the fleet?
killa_robot
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada1884 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-03-31 19:57:33
March 31 2015 19:57 GMT
#35670
On April 01 2015 04:06 dAPhREAk wrote:
something i have been pondering for awhile. are the foreigners in this thread (i.e., people who list countries other than U.S.), expats? if not, i am genuinely curious why foreigners know and care so much about U.S. politics.


Because U.S. politics usually have an impact on the rest of the world?

I know Canada copies many laws that the U.S makes, so that Stephen can please his American overlords.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23292 Posts
March 31 2015 20:00 GMT
#35671
I assume, based on his initial remarks, that this was in front of a fervently-religious far-right audience, and he was likely pandering to his audience, but it doesn't excuse the remark in the slightest.


It's from CBN (Christian Broadcast Network) so yeah, he was pandering to a crowd of crazy (I guess CBN was just there with other pastors but were the only ones to record it?). Pat Robertson is the leader of those gullible saps at CBN though.

Remember he's the guy who let such gems go like

“Can demonic spirits attach themselves to inanimate objects, the answer is yes,”


and...

And you know Kristi, something happened a long time ago in Haiti and people might not want to talk about it. They were under the heel of the French, uh you know Napoleon the third and whatever. And they got together and swore a pact to the Devil. They said we will serve you if you'll get us free from the French. True Story. And so the Devil said "OK, it's a deal." And they kicked the French out. You know, the Haitians revolted and got themselves free. But ever since they have been cursed by one thing after the other, desperately poor.


Can't forget God's punishments for the gays...

On Walt Disney World's "Gay Days"

"I would warn Orlando that you're right in the way of some serious hurricanes, and I don't think I'd be waving those flags in God's face if I were you ... It'll bring about terrorist bombs; it'll bring earthquakes, tornadoes, and possibly a meteor."


CBN is a televangelist scam. On the bright side (I guess) even he thinks creationism is dumb.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
March 31 2015 20:23 GMT
#35672
The U.S. says enough progress has been made in talks with Iran on its nuclear program to warrant an extension of today's 6 p.m. ET deadline by a day.

"We've made enough progress in the last days to merit staying until Wednesday," spokeswoman Marie Harf said in a statement. "There are several difficult issues still remaining."

She said Secretary of State John Kerry, who was scheduled to leave the talks Tuesday, will remain until Wednesday.

In Washington, White House spokesman Josh Earnest said talks in Lausanne, Switzerland, "continue to be productive," but if there is no political agreement by the June 30 deadline for an agreement, "we would walk away from the negotiating table."


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
March 31 2015 21:19 GMT
#35673
WASHINGTON -- Arkansas passed a religious freedom bill on Tuesday that is similar to an Indiana law that has faced national backlash for legalizing discrimination against lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people.

The bill cleared the Arkansas Legislature and now heads to the governor's desk, where it is expected to be signed. Like the Indiana law, the Arkansas legislation allows a person who feels his or her exercise of religion has been “substantially burdened” to cite that argument as a claim or defense in a private lawsuit. The legislation also grants corporations the right to religious freedom. This language is not in the federal Religious Freedom Restoration Act (RFRA), and critics say it could be used to override existing anti-discrimination protections.

"The Arkansas and Indiana bills are virtually identical in terms of language and intent,” said Sarah Warbelow, legal director at the Human Rights Campaign. “They place LGBT people, people of color, religious minorities, women and many more people at risk of discrimination.”


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Mindcrime
Profile Joined July 2004
United States6899 Posts
March 31 2015 22:15 GMT
#35674
On March 31 2015 23:08 Jormundr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 31 2015 12:19 Danglars wrote:
On March 31 2015 12:00 DannyJ wrote:
Well, that's definitely true, especially as the election comes closer. I mor eso meant a person who likes to genuinely throw out distinctly libertarian ideas and quotes.
I'd like to see the politician that disingenuously throws out distinctly libertarian lines. It's not like Libertarians are some huge demographic that get catered to by spouting out lines (that you don't believe in anyways).

It's like conservatives didn't start shouting out "free market" when they found out Libertarianism was this cool new thing the young folks were doing after they lost the '08 election.


I think you're a few years off. Rothbard noted that phenomenon long ago:


I am convinced that the historic function of Ronald Reagan was to co-opt, eviscerate and ultimately destroy the substantial wave of anti-governmental, and quasi-libertarian, sentiment that erupted in the U.S. during the 1970s. Did he perform this task consciously? Surely too difficult a feat for a man barely compos. No, Reagan was wheeled into performing this task by his Establishment handlers.
That wasn't any act of God. That was an act of pure human fuckery.
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
March 31 2015 22:34 GMT
#35675
On April 01 2015 07:15 Mindcrime wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 31 2015 23:08 Jormundr wrote:
On March 31 2015 12:19 Danglars wrote:
On March 31 2015 12:00 DannyJ wrote:
Well, that's definitely true, especially as the election comes closer. I mor eso meant a person who likes to genuinely throw out distinctly libertarian ideas and quotes.
I'd like to see the politician that disingenuously throws out distinctly libertarian lines. It's not like Libertarians are some huge demographic that get catered to by spouting out lines (that you don't believe in anyways).

It's like conservatives didn't start shouting out "free market" when they found out Libertarianism was this cool new thing the young folks were doing after they lost the '08 election.


I think you're a few years off. Rothbard noted that phenomenon long ago:

Show nested quote +

I am convinced that the historic function of Ronald Reagan was to co-opt, eviscerate and ultimately destroy the substantial wave of anti-governmental, and quasi-libertarian, sentiment that erupted in the U.S. during the 1970s. Did he perform this task consciously? Surely too difficult a feat for a man barely compos. No, Reagan was wheeled into performing this task by his Establishment handlers.
That's a pretty extreme take on it. The conservative revolution (Goldwater/Reagan) involved economic plans mirroring libertarian policy. They were already opposed to that era's establishment GOP that wouldn't hear of it (Voodoo economics). It wasn't some foreign co-opting, but a cohesive incorporation into a new coalition. Libertarians would obviously balk at its social and foreign policy positions.

I don't see any disingenuous adoption of libertarian ideas after 2008 or anything recent. As much as it exists, it's genuine (slight exception for Jeb Bush if he goes that route), and frankly rather an old tradition of hard-line conservatives.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
Liquid`Drone
Profile Joined September 2002
Norway28683 Posts
March 31 2015 22:35 GMT
#35676
On April 01 2015 04:06 dAPhREAk wrote:
something i have been pondering for awhile. are the foreigners in this thread (i.e., people who list countries other than U.S.), expats? if not, i am genuinely curious why foreigners know and care so much about U.S. politics.


born by Norwegian parents and lived all my life in Norway
firstly I'm interested because US politics shape world history unlike that of any other country - and I like to be knowledgeable on contemporary world issues. Secondly, Norwegian politics is kinda boring (which is a good thing for every purpose but indulging in it), US politics is far more entertaining, and EU politics to me looks like faceless bureaucracy.

Most importantly, I think it's extremely interesting to discuss with people who are equal minded and educated yet view the world from an entirely different lense and reach entirely different conclusions - and also to see what we agree with. In a sense, I feel like this gives me greater understanding of how our ways of thinking are impacted by the cultures we are surrounded by, and I can with certainty state that part-taking in this thread over the past 1500 pages has increased my understanding of 'American' thinking. Practically whenever I discuss American politics with fellow Norwegians, I now find myself annoyed by the lacking nuance in their understanding of the 'American' point of view, whereas before, although to be fair my interest started quite some time before this thread came to be, I would have been guilty of displaying the same lack of nuance.

It's basically a great cultural exchange program and I'm super happy to be part of it
Moderator
Introvert
Profile Joined April 2011
United States4815 Posts
March 31 2015 22:38 GMT
#35677
Ah yes, I remember that piece.

A classic example of hardcore libertarianism. Anything that is not 100% what I agree with shows that you are a fraud. It makes someone a member of the dark and power hungry establishment. It was all a ruse! Used to keep the masses in the dark.

Other libertarians have a far more balanced view, where they recognize they weren't going to get much better.

But the answer is rather simple, conservatives just aren't libertarians. And I hope it stays that way.
"It is therefore only at the birth of a society that one can be completely logical in the laws. When you see a people enjoying this advantage, do not hasten to conclude that it is wise; think rather that it is young." -Alexis de Tocqueville
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
March 31 2015 23:19 GMT
#35678
WASHINGTON -- President Barack Obama commuted the sentences of 22 individuals on Tuesday, more than doubling the number of commutations he has issued in the six-plus years he's been in office.

The men and women granted the reprieves had been imprisoned under an "outdated sentencing regime," the administration concluded. Eight of the 22 inmates had been sentenced to life imprisonment and would have died behind bars.

Leading up to Tuesday's announcement, the president has tried to revamp his administration's approach to clemency, telling The Huffington Post in a recent interview that he felt recipients should more broadly reflect the entire applicant pool and not lean toward well-connected white-collar criminals. Those granted clemency on Tuesday were all sentenced to jail for intent to distribute an illegal drug, with 14 of those cases involving possession or distribution of cocaine.

"Had they been sentenced under current laws and policies, many of these individuals would have already served their time and paid their debt to society," White House counsel Neil Eggleston said in a statement shared in advance with The Huffington Post. "Because many were convicted under an outdated sentencing regime, they served years -- in some cases more than a decade -- longer than individuals convicted today of the same crime."

The president sent a letter to each of the commutation recipients encouraging them to take advantage of their post-prison opportunity. An administration official said that this was the first time Obama has sent such letters during his presidency.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
TheTenthDoc
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9561 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-03-31 23:20:55
March 31 2015 23:20 GMT
#35679
Rand Paul is rapidly becoming Mitt Romney 2.0. Pandering son of a father who would fight to the death for his principles.

And you can't really blame him, considering Romney won the primaries.
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18832 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-03-31 23:49:13
March 31 2015 23:40 GMT
#35680
I must say that Indiana's RFRA debacle is setting up for quite the backdrop as the Republican presidential hopefuls throw their hats into the ring. If only they hadn't had to play their gay marriage stance so early!

On the other hand, I came upon an interview with 6 of the jurors that put Chris Kyle's killer behind bars for life, and goddamn, it made pretty fucking sick to my stomach. Admittedly, I'm working on the insanity defense in school
+ Show Spoiler +
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
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