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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 1416

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
November 09 2014 03:33 GMT
#28301
Conservatives who reject the science of climate change aren't necessarily reacting to the science, according to a new study from researchers at Duke University. They're reacting to the fact that they don't like proposed solutions more strongly identified with liberals.

The paper looks at the relationship between political ideology and rejection of scientific evidence. The researchers look most closely at climate change and other environmental challenges, an area where those who identify as liberals or Democrats mostly accept scientific conclusions while conservatives or Republicans largely reject them. The researchers conclude that on climate and other important societal issues, this denial is "rooted not in a fear of the general problem, per se, but rather in fear of the specific solutions associated with that problem."

The authors blame this denial of climate science on what they deem "solution aversion," i.e., the proposed solutions are "more aversive and more threatening to individuals who hold an ideology that is incompatible with or even challenged by the solution."


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Shiragaku
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Hong Kong4308 Posts
November 09 2014 03:34 GMT
#28302
I sometimes feel like many gun owning Americans wished there was a zombie apocalypse to prove that they are not simply hoarding a bunch of crap like a boy with his toys.
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
November 09 2014 03:43 GMT
#28303
On November 09 2014 12:33 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Show nested quote +
Conservatives who reject the science of climate change aren't necessarily reacting to the science, according to a new study from researchers at Duke University. They're reacting to the fact that they don't like proposed solutions more strongly identified with liberals.

The paper looks at the relationship between political ideology and rejection of scientific evidence. The researchers look most closely at climate change and other environmental challenges, an area where those who identify as liberals or Democrats mostly accept scientific conclusions while conservatives or Republicans largely reject them. The researchers conclude that on climate and other important societal issues, this denial is "rooted not in a fear of the general problem, per se, but rather in fear of the specific solutions associated with that problem."

The authors blame this denial of climate science on what they deem "solution aversion," i.e., the proposed solutions are "more aversive and more threatening to individuals who hold an ideology that is incompatible with or even challenged by the solution."


Source

same goes for le hippies
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
Nyxisto
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6287 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-11-09 03:46:51
November 09 2014 03:46 GMT
#28304
On November 09 2014 12:43 oneofthem wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 09 2014 12:33 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Conservatives who reject the science of climate change aren't necessarily reacting to the science, according to a new study from researchers at Duke University. They're reacting to the fact that they don't like proposed solutions more strongly identified with liberals.

The paper looks at the relationship between political ideology and rejection of scientific evidence. The researchers look most closely at climate change and other environmental challenges, an area where those who identify as liberals or Democrats mostly accept scientific conclusions while conservatives or Republicans largely reject them. The researchers conclude that on climate and other important societal issues, this denial is "rooted not in a fear of the general problem, per se, but rather in fear of the specific solutions associated with that problem."

The authors blame this denial of climate science on what they deem "solution aversion," i.e., the proposed solutions are "more aversive and more threatening to individuals who hold an ideology that is incompatible with or even challenged by the solution."


Source

same goes for le hippies


when we talked about gmos it was already pretty clear that on the left it's more of an economical/anti-globalisation than scientific thing. The occasional anti-vaccination guy isn't really comparable to the 30%(?) of the population that think evolution is wrong or climate change isn't happening.
Sub40APM
Profile Joined August 2010
6336 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-11-09 04:12:45
November 09 2014 03:47 GMT
#28305
On November 09 2014 12:01 Introvert wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 09 2014 11:43 Sub40APM wrote:
On November 09 2014 11:40 Introvert wrote:
WASHINGTON, D.C. -- The percentage of Americans who believe having a gun in the house makes it a safer place to be (63%) has nearly doubled since 2000, when about one in three agreed with this. Three in 10 Americans say having a gun in the house makes it a more dangerous place.

[image loading]

Gallup originally asked Americans about their views on the implications of having a gun in the home in 1993, and then updated the measure in 2000. Between 2000 and 2006, less than half of Americans believed having a gun at home makes it safer -- but since then, this percentage has significantly increased to a majority.


Gallup

As soon as a black guy gets into the white house, Americans want more guns.


That kept happening after pushes for gun controls, nada to do with skin color. The % was on its way up anyway, but for some reason Gallup didn't take the poll for 8 years.

Also, in 1993 the number of "safer" answers was 42% vs 52%.

So I would normally think you were being silly, but you are Sub40 after all, you never know.

Crap, I forgot the golden rule of ignoring posts less than one sentence. Hell.

Please, the central plank of the GOP was to scare angry whites that the negro president was going to take their guns and then their friend. Gun right mobilization began ticking up in 2008 and continued throughout his presidency. You are right, no one is dumb enough to say publicly that color matters, instead its just usual GOP panic mongering. Just like fears over immigration despite Obama being a much more avid deported than Bush was. Whatever gets the angry white horde to show up and vote against their economic interest.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2014/11/the_disunited_states_of_america_why_demographics_republican_obstructionism.single.html

You can see this on a broader scale in a 2014 report from the Pew Research Center on political polarization. Among “consistently conservative” voters, 63 percent wanted Republicans to “stick to their positions,” compared with just 14 percent of “consistently liberal” voters who said the same about the Democratic Party. Across the board, conservatives opposed compromise, leading New York magazine’s Jonathan Chait to quip that conservatives “Hate all deals.”

his attitude is how we got the now-infamous scene from the 2012 Republican presidential primaries, where a whole suite of candidates refused to endorse a fiscal deal weighted in their favor, where Democrats offered $10 in spending cuts for every $1 in new taxes. And it’s also responsible for former House Majority Leader Eric Cantor’s stunning loss to an obscure challenger in the 2014 congressional Republican primaries. His opponent, libertarian Dave Brat, had a single charge: Cantor was too friendly with Democrats. It worked.

oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
November 09 2014 04:21 GMT
#28306
On November 09 2014 12:46 Nyxisto wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 09 2014 12:43 oneofthem wrote:
On November 09 2014 12:33 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Conservatives who reject the science of climate change aren't necessarily reacting to the science, according to a new study from researchers at Duke University. They're reacting to the fact that they don't like proposed solutions more strongly identified with liberals.

The paper looks at the relationship between political ideology and rejection of scientific evidence. The researchers look most closely at climate change and other environmental challenges, an area where those who identify as liberals or Democrats mostly accept scientific conclusions while conservatives or Republicans largely reject them. The researchers conclude that on climate and other important societal issues, this denial is "rooted not in a fear of the general problem, per se, but rather in fear of the specific solutions associated with that problem."

The authors blame this denial of climate science on what they deem "solution aversion," i.e., the proposed solutions are "more aversive and more threatening to individuals who hold an ideology that is incompatible with or even challenged by the solution."


Source

same goes for le hippies


when we talked about gmos it was already pretty clear that on the left it's more of an economical/anti-globalisation than scientific thing. The occasional anti-vaccination guy isn't really comparable to the 30%(?) of the population that think evolution is wrong or climate change isn't happening.
point is there is some crossover where the political valence of the solution affects the position on the science. so nominally scientific disagreements are in fact political
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
Introvert
Profile Joined April 2011
United States5013 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-11-09 05:04:04
November 09 2014 04:59 GMT
#28307
On November 09 2014 12:47 Sub40APM wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 09 2014 12:01 Introvert wrote:
On November 09 2014 11:43 Sub40APM wrote:
On November 09 2014 11:40 Introvert wrote:
WASHINGTON, D.C. -- The percentage of Americans who believe having a gun in the house makes it a safer place to be (63%) has nearly doubled since 2000, when about one in three agreed with this. Three in 10 Americans say having a gun in the house makes it a more dangerous place.

[image loading]

Gallup originally asked Americans about their views on the implications of having a gun in the home in 1993, and then updated the measure in 2000. Between 2000 and 2006, less than half of Americans believed having a gun at home makes it safer -- but since then, this percentage has significantly increased to a majority.


Gallup

As soon as a black guy gets into the white house, Americans want more guns.


That kept happening after pushes for gun controls, nada to do with skin color. The % was on its way up anyway, but for some reason Gallup didn't take the poll for 8 years.

Also, in 1993 the number of "safer" answers was 42% vs 52%.

So I would normally think you were being silly, but you are Sub40 after all, you never know.

Crap, I forgot the golden rule of ignoring posts less than one sentence. Hell.

Please, the central plank of the GOP was to scare angry whites that the negro president was going to take their guns and then their friend. Gun right mobilization began ticking up in 2008 and continued throughout his presidency. You are right, no one is dumb enough to say publicly that color matters, instead its just usual GOP panic mongering. Just like fears over immigration despite Obama being a much more avid deported than Bush was. Whatever gets the angry white horde to show up and vote against their economic interest.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2014/11/the_disunited_states_of_america_why_demographics_republican_obstructionism.single.html

Show nested quote +
You can see this on a broader scale in a 2014 report from the Pew Research Center on political polarization. Among “consistently conservative” voters, 63 percent wanted Republicans to “stick to their positions,” compared with just 14 percent of “consistently liberal” voters who said the same about the Democratic Party. Across the board, conservatives opposed compromise, leading New York magazine’s Jonathan Chait to quip that conservatives “Hate all deals.”

his attitude is how we got the now-infamous scene from the 2012 Republican presidential primaries, where a whole suite of candidates refused to endorse a fiscal deal weighted in their favor, where Democrats offered $10 in spending cuts for every $1 in new taxes. And it’s also responsible for former House Majority Leader Eric Cantor’s stunning loss to an obscure challenger in the 2014 congressional Republican primaries. His opponent, libertarian Dave Brat, had a single charge: Cantor was too friendly with Democrats. It worked.



eh, I've gone over the numbers with other posters when it comes to immigration. Presidential threats + him not actually being tougher on illegal immigration (DREAM act anyone?) displays that Obama quite clearly has amnesty on the brain. "Fear mongering" is part of what helps to keep it under control. If there wasn't so much anger we'd have had it by now.



I'd say the talk of gun control had more to do with gun sales than his color. I could be wrong but I don't recall much effort by Democrats to try and pass GC under Bush. They were too busy whining about other things and knew that it wasn't going to happen. When they controlled both chambers and the executive branch, it could actually happen. Therefore, more of a real reason to be concerned about what you could or could not buy. It's perfectly natural, and has nothing to do with race.

Your comments on compromise are irrelevant, nothing to do with guns or race.

I also find the talk of "fear mongering" amusing when the left has big boogie men in oil, gas, and the Koch brothers. No fear there!
"But, as the conservative understands it, modification of the rules should always reflect, and never impose, a change in the activities and beliefs of those who are subject to them, and should never on any occasion be so great as to destroy the ensemble."
Shiragaku
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Hong Kong4308 Posts
November 09 2014 05:37 GMT
#28308
On November 09 2014 12:47 Sub40APM wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 09 2014 12:01 Introvert wrote:
On November 09 2014 11:43 Sub40APM wrote:
On November 09 2014 11:40 Introvert wrote:
WASHINGTON, D.C. -- The percentage of Americans who believe having a gun in the house makes it a safer place to be (63%) has nearly doubled since 2000, when about one in three agreed with this. Three in 10 Americans say having a gun in the house makes it a more dangerous place.

[image loading]

Gallup originally asked Americans about their views on the implications of having a gun in the home in 1993, and then updated the measure in 2000. Between 2000 and 2006, less than half of Americans believed having a gun at home makes it safer -- but since then, this percentage has significantly increased to a majority.


Gallup

As soon as a black guy gets into the white house, Americans want more guns.


That kept happening after pushes for gun controls, nada to do with skin color. The % was on its way up anyway, but for some reason Gallup didn't take the poll for 8 years.

Also, in 1993 the number of "safer" answers was 42% vs 52%.

So I would normally think you were being silly, but you are Sub40 after all, you never know.

Crap, I forgot the golden rule of ignoring posts less than one sentence. Hell.

Please, the central plank of the GOP was to scare angry whites that the negro president was going to take their guns and then their friend. Gun right mobilization began ticking up in 2008 and continued throughout his presidency. You are right, no one is dumb enough to say publicly that color matters, instead its just usual GOP panic mongering. Just like fears over immigration despite Obama being a much more avid deported than Bush was. Whatever gets the angry white horde to show up and vote against their economic interest.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2014/11/the_disunited_states_of_america_why_demographics_republican_obstructionism.single.html

Show nested quote +
You can see this on a broader scale in a 2014 report from the Pew Research Center on political polarization. Among “consistently conservative” voters, 63 percent wanted Republicans to “stick to their positions,” compared with just 14 percent of “consistently liberal” voters who said the same about the Democratic Party. Across the board, conservatives opposed compromise, leading New York magazine’s Jonathan Chait to quip that conservatives “Hate all deals.”

his attitude is how we got the now-infamous scene from the 2012 Republican presidential primaries, where a whole suite of candidates refused to endorse a fiscal deal weighted in their favor, where Democrats offered $10 in spending cuts for every $1 in new taxes. And it’s also responsible for former House Majority Leader Eric Cantor’s stunning loss to an obscure challenger in the 2014 congressional Republican primaries. His opponent, libertarian Dave Brat, had a single charge: Cantor was too friendly with Democrats. It worked.


You seem to be forgetting the Eric Holder scare. Now that was something
Danglars
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States12133 Posts
November 09 2014 06:25 GMT
#28309
Maybe the Republicans won by forcing their Democrat opponents to live up to their record over the past few years. Maybe they were tired of hearing how only an idiot would think Obamacare wasn't a great step in the right direction, because they're the ones paying more for their health plans. You simply can't forget Obama repeating that it was a vicious lie up until it became the truth.

Democrats and their media allies got what they deserved, which was a swift rebuke. Now they're trying their darnedest to convince the stupid party that the election was about compromise and working with the president etc etc. Considering the state of our luminaries like Boehner and McConnell, it might work.
Great armies come from happy zealots, and happy zealots come from California!
TL+ Member
Wegandi
Profile Joined March 2011
United States2455 Posts
November 09 2014 06:47 GMT
#28310
On November 09 2014 12:46 Nyxisto wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 09 2014 12:43 oneofthem wrote:
On November 09 2014 12:33 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Conservatives who reject the science of climate change aren't necessarily reacting to the science, according to a new study from researchers at Duke University. They're reacting to the fact that they don't like proposed solutions more strongly identified with liberals.

The paper looks at the relationship between political ideology and rejection of scientific evidence. The researchers look most closely at climate change and other environmental challenges, an area where those who identify as liberals or Democrats mostly accept scientific conclusions while conservatives or Republicans largely reject them. The researchers conclude that on climate and other important societal issues, this denial is "rooted not in a fear of the general problem, per se, but rather in fear of the specific solutions associated with that problem."

The authors blame this denial of climate science on what they deem "solution aversion," i.e., the proposed solutions are "more aversive and more threatening to individuals who hold an ideology that is incompatible with or even challenged by the solution."


Source

same goes for le hippies


when we talked about gmos it was already pretty clear that on the left it's more of an economical/anti-globalisation than scientific thing. The occasional anti-vaccination guy isn't really comparable to the 30%(?) of the population that think evolution is wrong or climate change isn't happening.


No, it's not clear. A lot on the 'left' reject GMO on scientific grounds, not because of economic/anti-globalism stuff. Then there are the anti-vaccine folks...To say the 'left' is any more scientific than the 'right' is a farce. Oh, there is also the technology phobia of the hippies as well...or the technology destroys jobs mantra I've seen on the 'left'. One side ain't any better than the other. Meanwhile the rationalists look on and just laugh.
Thank you bureaucrats for all your hard work, your commitment to public service and public good is essential to the lives of so many. Also, for Pete's sake can we please get some gun control already, no need for hand guns and assault rifles for the public
Wegandi
Profile Joined March 2011
United States2455 Posts
November 09 2014 06:59 GMT
#28311
On November 09 2014 12:47 Sub40APM wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 09 2014 12:01 Introvert wrote:
On November 09 2014 11:43 Sub40APM wrote:
On November 09 2014 11:40 Introvert wrote:
WASHINGTON, D.C. -- The percentage of Americans who believe having a gun in the house makes it a safer place to be (63%) has nearly doubled since 2000, when about one in three agreed with this. Three in 10 Americans say having a gun in the house makes it a more dangerous place.

[image loading]

Gallup originally asked Americans about their views on the implications of having a gun in the home in 1993, and then updated the measure in 2000. Between 2000 and 2006, less than half of Americans believed having a gun at home makes it safer -- but since then, this percentage has significantly increased to a majority.


Gallup

As soon as a black guy gets into the white house, Americans want more guns.


That kept happening after pushes for gun controls, nada to do with skin color. The % was on its way up anyway, but for some reason Gallup didn't take the poll for 8 years.

Also, in 1993 the number of "safer" answers was 42% vs 52%.

So I would normally think you were being silly, but you are Sub40 after all, you never know.

Crap, I forgot the golden rule of ignoring posts less than one sentence. Hell.

Please, the central plank of the GOP was to scare angry whites that the negro president was going to take their guns and then their friend. Gun right mobilization began ticking up in 2008 and continued throughout his presidency. You are right, no one is dumb enough to say publicly that color matters, instead its just usual GOP panic mongering. Just like fears over immigration despite Obama being a much more avid deported than Bush was. Whatever gets the angry white horde to show up and vote against their economic interest.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2014/11/the_disunited_states_of_america_why_demographics_republican_obstructionism.single.html

Show nested quote +
You can see this on a broader scale in a 2014 report from the Pew Research Center on political polarization. Among “consistently conservative” voters, 63 percent wanted Republicans to “stick to their positions,” compared with just 14 percent of “consistently liberal” voters who said the same about the Democratic Party. Across the board, conservatives opposed compromise, leading New York magazine’s Jonathan Chait to quip that conservatives “Hate all deals.”

his attitude is how we got the now-infamous scene from the 2012 Republican presidential primaries, where a whole suite of candidates refused to endorse a fiscal deal weighted in their favor, where Democrats offered $10 in spending cuts for every $1 in new taxes. And it’s also responsible for former House Majority Leader Eric Cantor’s stunning loss to an obscure challenger in the 2014 congressional Republican primaries. His opponent, libertarian Dave Brat, had a single charge: Cantor was too friendly with Democrats. It worked.



I normally don't like defending GOP politicians or positions outside of the libertarian wing, but 1) They all ready accepted that deal during Reagan and it was a farce. There were no 'spending cuts' - however, you want to define them, so you can't blame folk for being skeptical of this deal once again. 2) It's not about race, it's about the Democrats actually DO wanting to take the guns away - as seen during the Clinton years (or today in CT/NY, etc.)..or are you going to accuse the white folk of being racist against themselves here...? 3) Compromise is only ever brought up when it goes in one direction...actual compromise would be say shuttling a dozen or so useless alphabet agencies / powers / authority / etc. in exchange for say taking 25-50% of that savings and putting it toward internal infrastructure or something...but that won't ever happen. 4) Slate doesn't know much about the GOP and it's a terribly slanted source. You'd be better off actually talking with disaffected GOP'ers on how the GOP actually works.

I'm sure though that 2016 will roll around - the GOP will become the Democrats and spend a shitload of our money, the Democrats will complain and make some BS up about not spending enough, some more alphabet agencies will get created, State-powers expanded like under the Democrats - suddenly the Democrats will remember civil liberties, and the circle will rotate. Americans are dumb as fuck, and vote the Democrats back in. More will get disaffected. The circle will continue until Americans don't have much left to lose because most of the wealth were sucked up by the politically connected parasites (and/or politicians themselves). We'll have finally become a true Banana Republic. Maybe they'll be revolution. Probably not. We'll slide into 2nd world status like good Frogs being boiled. Oh, and eventually they'll get the guns so good luck with any revolution.
Thank you bureaucrats for all your hard work, your commitment to public service and public good is essential to the lives of so many. Also, for Pete's sake can we please get some gun control already, no need for hand guns and assault rifles for the public
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24188 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-11-09 07:01:35
November 09 2014 07:01 GMT
#28312
On November 09 2014 15:47 Wegandi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 09 2014 12:46 Nyxisto wrote:
On November 09 2014 12:43 oneofthem wrote:
On November 09 2014 12:33 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Conservatives who reject the science of climate change aren't necessarily reacting to the science, according to a new study from researchers at Duke University. They're reacting to the fact that they don't like proposed solutions more strongly identified with liberals.

The paper looks at the relationship between political ideology and rejection of scientific evidence. The researchers look most closely at climate change and other environmental challenges, an area where those who identify as liberals or Democrats mostly accept scientific conclusions while conservatives or Republicans largely reject them. The researchers conclude that on climate and other important societal issues, this denial is "rooted not in a fear of the general problem, per se, but rather in fear of the specific solutions associated with that problem."

The authors blame this denial of climate science on what they deem "solution aversion," i.e., the proposed solutions are "more aversive and more threatening to individuals who hold an ideology that is incompatible with or even challenged by the solution."


Source

same goes for le hippies


when we talked about gmos it was already pretty clear that on the left it's more of an economical/anti-globalisation than scientific thing. The occasional anti-vaccination guy isn't really comparable to the 30%(?) of the population that think evolution is wrong or climate change isn't happening.


No, it's not clear. A lot on the 'left' reject GMO on scientific grounds, not because of economic/anti-globalism stuff. Then there are the anti-vaccine folks...To say the 'left' is any more scientific than the 'right' is a farce. Oh, there is also the technology phobia of the hippies as well...or the technology destroys jobs mantra I've seen on the 'left'. One side ain't any better than the other. Meanwhile the rationalists look on and just laugh.


I don't know a lot of people in office on the left as anti-science as Republican representatives. Being skeptical of GMO's environmental or health impact isn't on the same level as calling evolution a 'lie straight from the pit of hell'.

There are crazies on both sides they just tend to get elected by one party more often than the other IMO.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Wegandi
Profile Joined March 2011
United States2455 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-11-09 07:21:04
November 09 2014 07:20 GMT
#28313
On November 09 2014 16:01 GreenHorizons wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 09 2014 15:47 Wegandi wrote:
On November 09 2014 12:46 Nyxisto wrote:
On November 09 2014 12:43 oneofthem wrote:
On November 09 2014 12:33 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Conservatives who reject the science of climate change aren't necessarily reacting to the science, according to a new study from researchers at Duke University. They're reacting to the fact that they don't like proposed solutions more strongly identified with liberals.

The paper looks at the relationship between political ideology and rejection of scientific evidence. The researchers look most closely at climate change and other environmental challenges, an area where those who identify as liberals or Democrats mostly accept scientific conclusions while conservatives or Republicans largely reject them. The researchers conclude that on climate and other important societal issues, this denial is "rooted not in a fear of the general problem, per se, but rather in fear of the specific solutions associated with that problem."

The authors blame this denial of climate science on what they deem "solution aversion," i.e., the proposed solutions are "more aversive and more threatening to individuals who hold an ideology that is incompatible with or even challenged by the solution."


Source

same goes for le hippies


when we talked about gmos it was already pretty clear that on the left it's more of an economical/anti-globalisation than scientific thing. The occasional anti-vaccination guy isn't really comparable to the 30%(?) of the population that think evolution is wrong or climate change isn't happening.


No, it's not clear. A lot on the 'left' reject GMO on scientific grounds, not because of economic/anti-globalism stuff. Then there are the anti-vaccine folks...To say the 'left' is any more scientific than the 'right' is a farce. Oh, there is also the technology phobia of the hippies as well...or the technology destroys jobs mantra I've seen on the 'left'. One side ain't any better than the other. Meanwhile the rationalists look on and just laugh.


I don't know a lot of people in office on the left as anti-science as Republican representatives. Being skeptical of GMO's environmental or health impact isn't on the same level as calling evolution a 'lie straight from the pit of hell'.

There are crazies on both sides they just tend to get elected by one party more often than the other IMO.


How isn't it? GMO's have that oh-so-ever-important scientific consensus that I always hear about with AGW, just like evolution. GMO's are safe, and are responsible for billions of people being alive today. Now, as for representative..., well we were talking about 'left' and 'right', no? Those terms however nebulous and ill-defined, aren't analagous to a party, and your one anecdote isn't much to disprove. I could just as easily say look at Thomas Massie on the GOP side. Let's not get into the wind and solar only-progressives who shun nuclear, hydro, newer technologies, etc. On health matters, there's a ton of anti-medical intervention. A huge natural fatalistic strain on the left - if it's natural it must be good, man-made or 'unnatural' = bad. You can't tell me that isn't anti-scientific. All of this is more partisan ideology than believers in science. Both sides are the same. If it fits your ideology = good, if not = bad. It all gets a tad tiresome.

Yes, crazies on both sides and in both parties - whether to argue on who's the worst of the worse....
Thank you bureaucrats for all your hard work, your commitment to public service and public good is essential to the lives of so many. Also, for Pete's sake can we please get some gun control already, no need for hand guns and assault rifles for the public
Stratos_speAr
Profile Joined May 2009
United States6959 Posts
November 09 2014 16:06 GMT
#28314
On November 09 2014 12:46 Nyxisto wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 09 2014 12:43 oneofthem wrote:
On November 09 2014 12:33 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Conservatives who reject the science of climate change aren't necessarily reacting to the science, according to a new study from researchers at Duke University. They're reacting to the fact that they don't like proposed solutions more strongly identified with liberals.

The paper looks at the relationship between political ideology and rejection of scientific evidence. The researchers look most closely at climate change and other environmental challenges, an area where those who identify as liberals or Democrats mostly accept scientific conclusions while conservatives or Republicans largely reject them. The researchers conclude that on climate and other important societal issues, this denial is "rooted not in a fear of the general problem, per se, but rather in fear of the specific solutions associated with that problem."

The authors blame this denial of climate science on what they deem "solution aversion," i.e., the proposed solutions are "more aversive and more threatening to individuals who hold an ideology that is incompatible with or even challenged by the solution."


Source

same goes for le hippies


when we talked about gmos it was already pretty clear that on the left it's more of an economical/anti-globalisation than scientific thing. The occasional anti-vaccination guy isn't really comparable to the 30%(?) of the population that think evolution is wrong or climate change isn't happening.


It's something like 48% in the U.S.
A sound mind in a sound body, is a short, but full description of a happy state in this World: he that has these two, has little more to wish for; and he that wants either of them, will be little the better for anything else.
Doublemint
Profile Joined July 2011
Austria8760 Posts
November 09 2014 16:13 GMT
#28315
On November 10 2014 01:06 Stratos_speAr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 09 2014 12:46 Nyxisto wrote:
On November 09 2014 12:43 oneofthem wrote:
On November 09 2014 12:33 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Conservatives who reject the science of climate change aren't necessarily reacting to the science, according to a new study from researchers at Duke University. They're reacting to the fact that they don't like proposed solutions more strongly identified with liberals.

The paper looks at the relationship between political ideology and rejection of scientific evidence. The researchers look most closely at climate change and other environmental challenges, an area where those who identify as liberals or Democrats mostly accept scientific conclusions while conservatives or Republicans largely reject them. The researchers conclude that on climate and other important societal issues, this denial is "rooted not in a fear of the general problem, per se, but rather in fear of the specific solutions associated with that problem."

The authors blame this denial of climate science on what they deem "solution aversion," i.e., the proposed solutions are "more aversive and more threatening to individuals who hold an ideology that is incompatible with or even challenged by the solution."


Source

same goes for le hippies


when we talked about gmos it was already pretty clear that on the left it's more of an economical/anti-globalisation than scientific thing. The occasional anti-vaccination guy isn't really comparable to the 30%(?) of the population that think evolution is wrong or climate change isn't happening.


It's something like 48% in the U.S.


And there's the other side of the "freedom" coin. "Choosing" to believe something else. Just because.
Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before the fall.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24188 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-11-09 19:03:19
November 09 2014 19:02 GMT
#28316
Republicans might find themselves to the right of the pope on LGBT's this next presidential election if they aren't careful.

The pontiff removed Cardinal Raymond Burke as the leader of the Vatican’s highest court and appointed him to a ceremonial position as chaplain of the Knights of Malta, a charity group,

The outspoken, conservative bishop — who pushed for the Vatican to revise and water-down its recent, tentative step toward greater acceptance of LGBT people — has butted heads with the pope since the Argentine was elected last year. Last month, he compared Pope Francis’ leadership to “a ship without a rudder” during an interview with a Spanish magazine.


Source
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Nyxisto
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6287 Posts
November 09 2014 19:06 GMT
#28317
The catholic church has adopted evolution as a doctrine basically a hundred years ago, in regards to sexual equality they'll probably get their pretty soon. In the life of most Catholics this isn't a big issue anyway. I think it's always really weird when you go to reddit and see how Christians are compared to fundamentalists, although the largest Christian denomination is arguably way more progressive than the Republican party.
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18866 Posts
November 09 2014 19:20 GMT
#28318
Reddit grossly mischaracterizes something? Get outta here!
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
Nyxisto
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6287 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-11-09 19:25:34
November 09 2014 19:22 GMT
#28319
Well to be honest these kinds of generalizations and bleak criticism when it comes to religion or Christianity more specifically happen more or less everywhere. Point being is that the stuff the pope is saying isn't actually news in the Catholic church and that the American right obviously is far more extreme than the Pope and at least a handful of Popes before.
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States24188 Posts
November 09 2014 19:29 GMT
#28320
On November 10 2014 04:22 Nyxisto wrote:
Well to be honest these kinds of generalizations and bleak criticism when it comes to religion or Christianity more specifically happen more or less everywhere. Point being is that the stuff the pope is saying isn't actually news in the Catholic church and that the American right obviously is far more extreme than the Pope and at least a handful of Popes before.



What blows my mind is ~25% of Catholics in America still don't believe in evolution... Talk about cognitive dissonance to the max!
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
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