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On November 19 2012 05:27 Goozen wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2012 05:23 Caihead wrote:On November 19 2012 05:08 bonse wrote:On November 19 2012 05:01 Phoenix2003 wrote:
Why won't the Isrealis just GO BACK TO EUROPE? (And take white americans with you) But they are finally home... You know what home is? Go to the Israeli government website and look at archaeological evidence that they have found, all of them support civilization existing at set time periods, but none of them (as far as I know) indicate that it was specifically Jewish settlements. This is Israeli funded digs with every intent and purpose of finding evidence that they belong there, and they haven't turned up anything. Also, a home is an abstract idea, to the British settlers of North America, Canada / USA is their home now, not Britain. They have no right to claim land on an abstract idea of where you belong. The "organic bond" between people and land is also in staunch opposition of enlightenment era Jewish values from the early 20th century. Wow, i hope this is just ignorance but here you go: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archaeology_of_IsraelBut the historical claim is only a fraction of the whole claim.
So... read them and tell me how they actually indicate that Jewish people lived there in particular, not the existing and historically known facts of other occupations. The historical description is based almost entirely on the Bible, similarly if you go to pages like "Kingdom of Israel" or King Solomon / David. There's as much if not more Palestinian archaeological evidence, as well as evidence that Philistine culture was more sophisticated and more dominant. Even if the Jewish people were there they weren't the dominant culture of the times. Besides the point is that just because you were once living on a specific patch of land doesn't give you rights to it. We can't all go to Africa and take their land and wage war just because X hundred thousand years ago we all originated from the heart of Africa.
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On November 19 2012 05:27 calderon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2012 05:24 Feartheguru wrote:lol. Tried to take someone else's land, lost some of yours as a result. You sad? lol. The last time I checked it was Israel who made the preemptive strike in the six day war.
lol. I assumed you have the intelligence to know that when you preemptively attack knowing the other side is about to invade, the other side is the one starting the war. Don't worry, won't make that mistake again.
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On November 19 2012 05:30 Feartheguru wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2012 05:27 calderon wrote:On November 19 2012 05:24 Feartheguru wrote:lol. Tried to take someone else's land, lost some of yours as a result. You sad? lol. The last time I checked it was Israel who made the preemptive strike in the six day war. lol. I assumed you have the intelligence to know that when you preemptively attack knowing the other side is about to invade, the other side is the one starting the war. Don't worry, won't make that mistake again.
The area has been under rule by Arabs for the last 1500 years, is it Jewish land because they once occupied millenia ago?
Also, after the "pre emptive" strike, Israel claimed that the attack was initiated by Egypt. Sounds like they thought they were really justified in their initial attack.
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On November 19 2012 05:29 Vivax wrote:
So, assuming Israel finishes the job and inglobates Palestine after some sort of capitulation (expressed by an underground group -the hamas- lol) : Where you gonna put all those palestinians? Think you can all just coexist peacefully as if nothing happened? It isn't a coincidence that lots of wars ended up with genocide attempts or some sort of super oppressive regime. The US army can withdraw from the middle east after beating the governing powers, you can't just withdraw from the zone in front of your own home.
Either both accept things as they are or one finishes the job fast, anything else just doesn't solve a thing.
Yeah, the situation sucks for both parties, but at least Israel has defense systems against rockets.
Israel is not gonna "accept" that they're going to be hit by rockets. They are also not willing to commit genocide, so...
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On November 19 2012 05:27 Feartheguru wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2012 05:21 Pureh wrote:On November 19 2012 03:43 moskonia wrote:On November 19 2012 03:36 SlashCare wrote:
Why can´t they just set aside their differnces. That would be much better for the people in both countries. You seem confused, this is between a country, Israel, to a terrorism organization, Hamas, not a country. If it was a war between countries it would have been much simpler. You have got things mixed there. Israel was founded through terrorist actions, I see that being completely left out. So if we follow what you say, then Hamas turning itself into a Gaza-country will just abolish all terrorist actions they've done? Nice reasoning you got there mate. Alternate history is cool.
Care to explain there? You're telling me that Palestinians came from nowhere or were dropped from UFOs?
I mean there are so much made up stories coming from everyone, but let's just not be too extreme.
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Better not revive or clone a neanderthalian, guess they could claim alot of countries. But thats just kidding, i don't want to go into that. Goozen, i edited my last posting as response, not sure if you saw.
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On November 19 2012 05:27 calderon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2012 05:24 Feartheguru wrote:lol. Tried to take someone else's land, lost some of yours as a result. You sad? lol. The last time I checked it was Israel who made the preemptive strike in the six day war.
Read history, go to Israels wiki read the whole thing about history. should take you about 3 hours after this i may take you seriously but not at the stage your spout this ignorant rubbish that 3 seconds on google prove you wrong.
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On November 19 2012 05:29 Vivax wrote:
So, assuming Israel finishes the job and inglobates Palestine after some sort of capitulation (expressed by an underground group -the hamas- lol) : Where you gonna put all those palestinians? Think you can all just coexist peacefully as if nothing happened? It isn't a coincidence that lots of wars ended up with genocide attempts or some sort of super oppressive regime. The US army can withdraw from the middle east after beating the governing powers, you can't just withdraw from the zone in front of your own home.
Either both accept things as they are or one finishes the job fast, anything else just doesn't solve a thing.
Yeah, the situation sucks for both parties, but at least Israel has defense systems against rockets.
Isreal could just beat them until they are broken, few and scattered enough to pen into reservations and let them open casinos. Wait a couple of generations and everyone will forget. It has worked in the past.
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On November 19 2012 05:31 calderon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2012 05:30 Feartheguru wrote:On November 19 2012 05:27 calderon wrote:On November 19 2012 05:24 Feartheguru wrote:lol. Tried to take someone else's land, lost some of yours as a result. You sad? lol. The last time I checked it was Israel who made the preemptive strike in the six day war. lol. I assumed you have the intelligence to know that when you preemptively attack knowing the other side is about to invade, the other side is the one starting the war. Don't worry, won't make that mistake again. The area has been under rule by Arabs for the last 1500 years, is it Jewish land because they once occupied millenia ago?
It's been ruled by the Jews for 60 years, is it Arab land because they once occupied it half a century ago?
The land belongs to whoever is able to control it. You don't have some god given right to the land because you took it over and lived on it for a while.
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On November 19 2012 05:36 Feartheguru wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2012 05:31 calderon wrote:On November 19 2012 05:30 Feartheguru wrote:On November 19 2012 05:27 calderon wrote:On November 19 2012 05:24 Feartheguru wrote:lol. Tried to take someone else's land, lost some of yours as a result. You sad? lol. The last time I checked it was Israel who made the preemptive strike in the six day war. lol. I assumed you have the intelligence to know that when you preemptively attack knowing the other side is about to invade, the other side is the one starting the war. Don't worry, won't make that mistake again. The area has been under rule by Arabs for the last 1500 years, is it Jewish land because they once occupied millenia ago? It's been ruled by the Jews for 60 years, is it Arab land because they once occupied it half a century ago? The land belongs to whoever is able to control it. You don't have some god given right to the land because you took it over and lived on it for a while.
The comment is directed at the rationale being given to excuse the occupation and detract from legitimate dialogue because the moment you mention the word "religion" the western world backs off immediately and just goes "well it's their religion I mean we can't argue with that".
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On November 19 2012 05:36 Feartheguru wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2012 05:31 calderon wrote:On November 19 2012 05:30 Feartheguru wrote:On November 19 2012 05:27 calderon wrote:On November 19 2012 05:24 Feartheguru wrote:lol. Tried to take someone else's land, lost some of yours as a result. You sad? lol. The last time I checked it was Israel who made the preemptive strike in the six day war. lol. I assumed you have the intelligence to know that when you preemptively attack knowing the other side is about to invade, the other side is the one starting the war. Don't worry, won't make that mistake again. The area has been under rule by Arabs for the last 1500 years, is it Jewish land because they once occupied millenia ago? It's been ruled by the Jews for 60 years, is it Arab land because they once occupied it half a century ago? The land belongs to whoever is able to control it. You don't have some god given right to the land because you took it over and lived on it for a while.
So if USA invaded Canada tomoro and took control of it its all fair game? sure.
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On November 19 2012 05:32 Pureh wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2012 05:27 Feartheguru wrote:On November 19 2012 05:21 Pureh wrote:On November 19 2012 03:43 moskonia wrote:On November 19 2012 03:36 SlashCare wrote:
Why can´t they just set aside their differnces. That would be much better for the people in both countries. You seem confused, this is between a country, Israel, to a terrorism organization, Hamas, not a country. If it was a war between countries it would have been much simpler. You have got things mixed there. Israel was founded through terrorist actions, I see that being completely left out. So if we follow what you say, then Hamas turning itself into a Gaza-country will just abolish all terrorist actions they've done? Nice reasoning you got there mate. Alternate history is cool. Care to explain there? You're telling me that Palestinians came from nowhere or were dropped from UFOs? I mean there are so much made up stories coming from everyone, but let's just not be too extreme.
Uh.... Palestinians never ruled over Palestine, there was a power vacuum after the British left, the Arabs tried to get the land for the Palestinians, the Jews there tried to form their own state, they won, they got their state. Please take your advice, you're the one making extreme claims lol.
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On November 19 2012 05:36 Feartheguru wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2012 05:31 calderon wrote:On November 19 2012 05:30 Feartheguru wrote:On November 19 2012 05:27 calderon wrote:On November 19 2012 05:24 Feartheguru wrote:lol. Tried to take someone else's land, lost some of yours as a result. You sad? lol. The last time I checked it was Israel who made the preemptive strike in the six day war. lol. I assumed you have the intelligence to know that when you preemptively attack knowing the other side is about to invade, the other side is the one starting the war. Don't worry, won't make that mistake again. The area has been under rule by Arabs for the last 1500 years, is it Jewish land because they once occupied millenia ago? It's been ruled by the Jews for 60 years, is it Arab land because they once occupied it half a century ago? The land belongs to whoever is able to control it. You don't have some god given right to the land because you took it over and lived on it for a while.
Hail the Caliphate of London then? How would that feel?
You realise if the world worked like that, half the borders we know now, could be erased?
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On November 19 2012 05:25 m4inbrain wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2012 05:21 Pureh wrote:On November 19 2012 03:43 moskonia wrote:On November 19 2012 03:36 SlashCare wrote:
Why can´t they just set aside their differnces. That would be much better for the people in both countries. You seem confused, this is between a country, Israel, to a terrorism organization, Hamas, not a country. If it was a war between countries it would have been much simpler. You have got things mixed there. Israel was founded through terrorist actions, I see that being completely left out. So if we follow what you say, then Hamas turning itself into a Gaza-country will just abolish all terrorist actions they've done? Nice reasoning you got there mate. Its actually not only hamas. There are alot of other terroristic "organisations" shooting rockets, even if you somehow could dismantle hamas for good, that won't stop the rockets. Maybe it will be a little less, but it won't stop. At least i guess, would've need to read up on that again. Show nested quote +Ah, the Samson option, one of the biggest pieces of BS on the net that people quote without having a clue...
Look at the Wiki, there is no official source or any reason for Israel to do it. The closest the whole concept comes to the truth is the reasons Israel has nukes to begin with and that is M.A.D. Actually, i had my quotes directly from wiki, but thank you. I also don't know what M.A.D. means, other than "mad", which i would describe as dead on the money. Guess you need to tell me what it means. "The Samson Option is Israel's alleged deterrence strategy of massive retaliation with nuclear weapons as a "last resort" against nations whose military attacks threaten its existence, and possibly against other targets as well.[1] The phrase also has been used more generally to describe Israel's nuclear program." I guess you are familiar with the wiki, so i don't need to quote all of it. There are israeli (or maybe jewish, i can't tell) extremists out there. The fear of a nuclear war "thanks" to israel is not irrational.
M.A.D = mutually assured destruction. Israel feared that it was all over in the war of 73' and still didnt use nukes on those attacking it.
"Alleged" says it all, there is 0 reason to nuke Europe and it will never happen, people who are that crazy will never be in power. Israel has had nukes for over 40 years now but the fear of nuclear war is mostly due to Iran. This isnt just a Israel vs. Iran thing, the fear is alot of other countries who are scared of Iran (such as UAE) will also get nukes.
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On November 19 2012 05:30 Feartheguru wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2012 05:27 calderon wrote:On November 19 2012 05:24 Feartheguru wrote:lol. Tried to take someone else's land, lost some of yours as a result. You sad? lol. The last time I checked it was Israel who made the preemptive strike in the six day war. lol. I assumed you have the intelligence to know that when you preemptively attack knowing the other side is about to invade, the other side is the one starting the war. Don't worry, won't make that mistake again.
So... you can use that same rationale to say that Israel started its invasion into Southern Lebanon and that Hezbollah was defending itself. What's your point.
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The whole situation is terrible. Neither side has much to gain. Absolutely not worth the lives of civilian casualties and sadly there may a lot of casualties yet to come.
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On November 19 2012 05:39 calderon wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2012 05:36 Feartheguru wrote:On November 19 2012 05:31 calderon wrote:On November 19 2012 05:30 Feartheguru wrote:On November 19 2012 05:27 calderon wrote:On November 19 2012 05:24 Feartheguru wrote:lol. Tried to take someone else's land, lost some of yours as a result. You sad? lol. The last time I checked it was Israel who made the preemptive strike in the six day war. lol. I assumed you have the intelligence to know that when you preemptively attack knowing the other side is about to invade, the other side is the one starting the war. Don't worry, won't make that mistake again. The area has been under rule by Arabs for the last 1500 years, is it Jewish land because they once occupied millenia ago? It's been ruled by the Jews for 60 years, is it Arab land because they once occupied it half a century ago? The land belongs to whoever is able to control it. You don't have some god given right to the land because you took it over and lived on it for a while. So if USA invaded Canada tomoro and took control of it its all fair game? sure.
LOL I'm using YOUR logic in a similar example to show how stupid it is. I'm glad you realize it's awful logic
Now make the connection ----->>>>
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On November 19 2012 05:42 Feartheguru wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2012 05:39 calderon wrote:On November 19 2012 05:36 Feartheguru wrote:On November 19 2012 05:31 calderon wrote:On November 19 2012 05:30 Feartheguru wrote:On November 19 2012 05:27 calderon wrote:On November 19 2012 05:24 Feartheguru wrote:lol. Tried to take someone else's land, lost some of yours as a result. You sad? lol. The last time I checked it was Israel who made the preemptive strike in the six day war. lol. I assumed you have the intelligence to know that when you preemptively attack knowing the other side is about to invade, the other side is the one starting the war. Don't worry, won't make that mistake again. The area has been under rule by Arabs for the last 1500 years, is it Jewish land because they once occupied millenia ago? It's been ruled by the Jews for 60 years, is it Arab land because they once occupied it half a century ago? The land belongs to whoever is able to control it. You don't have some god given right to the land because you took it over and lived on it for a while. So if USA invaded Canada tomoro and took control of it its all fair game? sure. LOL I'm using YOUR logic in a similar example to show how stupid it is. I'm glad you realize it's awful logic Now make the connection ----->>>>
No you make the connection. I just proved your point wrong by using an exaggerated example. Think about it.
By what you are saying if US did invade Canada and occupied it and built military outposts there you would think its fine.
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On November 19 2012 05:40 Feartheguru wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2012 05:32 Pureh wrote:On November 19 2012 05:27 Feartheguru wrote:On November 19 2012 05:21 Pureh wrote:On November 19 2012 03:43 moskonia wrote:On November 19 2012 03:36 SlashCare wrote:
Why can´t they just set aside their differnces. That would be much better for the people in both countries. You seem confused, this is between a country, Israel, to a terrorism organization, Hamas, not a country. If it was a war between countries it would have been much simpler. You have got things mixed there. Israel was founded through terrorist actions, I see that being completely left out. So if we follow what you say, then Hamas turning itself into a Gaza-country will just abolish all terrorist actions they've done? Nice reasoning you got there mate. Alternate history is cool. Care to explain there? You're telling me that Palestinians came from nowhere or were dropped from UFOs? I mean there are so much made up stories coming from everyone, but let's just not be too extreme. Uh.... Palestinians never ruled over Palestine, there was a power vacuum after the British left, the Arabs tried to get the land for the Palestinians, the Jews there tried to form their own state, they won, they got their state. Please take your advice, you're the one making extreme claims lol.
The difference is, the natives were expecting to finally gain independence after centuries of Ottoman and decades of British rule. If you look at some African borders, decolonisation happened without much care over ethnical borders, this is why so many border conflicts happen there to this day. Now in Palestine however, it's not just a border conflict, but an entire "state" was created over another one.
If people had to guess in 1938, who would rule Palestine after the British Mandate is over, it would have been the majority population obviously, and that would definitely create Israel over there...
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On November 19 2012 05:40 Caihead wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2012 05:30 Feartheguru wrote:On November 19 2012 05:27 calderon wrote:On November 19 2012 05:24 Feartheguru wrote:lol. Tried to take someone else's land, lost some of yours as a result. You sad? lol. The last time I checked it was Israel who made the preemptive strike in the six day war. lol. I assumed you have the intelligence to know that when you preemptively attack knowing the other side is about to invade, the other side is the one starting the war. Don't worry, won't make that mistake again. So... you can use that same rationale to say that Israel started its invasion into Southern Lebanon and that Hezbollah was defending itself. What's your point.
Ya! its not like it was done in the response to the killing of 2 soldiers and 3 taken hostage at all!
Your posting shows your ignorance on all the issues you have posted on in this thread. Please do some basic homework and i hope no one responds to your "insightful" 1 liners until then.
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EPT
