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MLG this weekend was great - but there is one problem with MLG that is rising higher and higher for every MLG we have. There is way to many Koreans!
There is 19 Koreans in the pools - that is just SICK. How would it look if Spain had 4 teams in the EURO 2012? Should they be allowed to do that because they are the best?
MLG really needs to have a maximum number of players from each country like every other serious sport out there. Make the biggest sc2 nations have a higher "player cap" than the smaller ones - make a seeding based on the country's RANKING.
Example:
Korea rank 1 country in the world: gets to have 8 players travel to MLG
Sweden rank 2 country in the world: gets to have 8 players travel to MLG
Russia rank 5 country in the world: gets to have 5 players travel to MLG
Norway rank 18 in the world: gets to have 1 player travel to MLG
This is a way it could be done - because right now people are losing interest because the tournament is just flooding over with Koreans. Sure we see great play but there is NOTHING more - we need someone to root for, we need the drama outside the match.
MLG last night was great - but after SaSe went out I just went to sleep - it was like there was nothing more to see.
I love the Korean scene but right now MLG might as well change name to GSL.
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Spain does have 4 spanish teams in the Champions League, you can't compare Euro 2012 to MLG because there is not really a Euro 2012 counterpart. We have WCG which is an olympic and every country can send a maximum of three players.
The Korean/Taiwanese seeding slots are restricted to 10, EU has 9 and US has 8. It's completely logical that the region that has the best players has more slots than the other regions.
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Nah, I'd rather watch the best games.
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So we should ruin the integrity of a tournament and stop the best players from coming because you don´t like seeing Koreans at MLG?
The best players are qualified because they deserve to be there. I´d much rather have the best players than just having foreigners because of the diversity. Foreigners simply need to get better at the game, that´s it.
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On June 11 2012 22:18 Hakanfrog wrote:
So we should ruin the integrity of a tournament and stop the best players from coming because you don´t like seeing Koreans at MLG?
The best players are qualified because they deserve to be there. I´d much rather have the best players than just having foreigners because of the diversity. Foreigners simply need to get better at the game, that´s it.
Exactly, and there isn't even any excuse for this. Stephano and Grubby live in the EU and they are still doing well, foreigners just need to step up their game if they want to play at a high level.
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On June 11 2012 22:17 Eee wrote:
Spain does have 4 spanish teams in the Champions League, you can't compare Euro 2012 to MLG because there is not really a Euro 2012 counterpart. We have WCG which is an olympic and every country can send a maximum of three players.
The Korean/Taiwanese seeding slots are restricted to 10, EU has 9 and US has 8. It's completely logical that the region that has the best players has more slots than the other regions.
Okey listen up - Spain has 4 teams in the Champions League for a REASON - they have highest NATION RANKING (together with England and Germany) - get it?
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On June 11 2012 22:13 zuperketla wrote:
Should they be allowed to do that because they are the best?
YES. God yes.
This isn't WCG, it's not WCS.
People want to subsidize the foreign esports community instead of forcing them to up their game. This topic comes up all the time. Screw that.
Eventually you'll get Koreans like Flash and Jaedong who know how to have a personality and become fan favorites. MKP is a great example.
So yeah, hopefully MLG will not listen to these inevitable horrible threads. :/
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I agree. It's completely unenjoyable to watch someone who you know nothing about. I did not watch anything after pool play.
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This is something that comes up a lot and a lot of people are on both sides of this debate.
Personally, I'd rather see the BEST matches. And to be frank, if a foreign player winds up winning at an event with a lot of Koreans he is then praised.
Just look at Socke. He was in the group of death and was AMAZING this weekend. Do you think he would have gotten that much attention if his group consisted of all foreigners?
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On June 11 2012 22:20 zuperketla wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2012 22:17 Eee wrote:
Spain does have 4 spanish teams in the Champions League, you can't compare Euro 2012 to MLG because there is not really a Euro 2012 counterpart. We have WCG which is an olympic and every country can send a maximum of three players.
The Korean/Taiwanese seeding slots are restricted to 10, EU has 9 and US has 8. It's completely logical that the region that has the best players has more slots than the other regions. Okey listen up - Spain has 4 teams in the Champions League for a REASON - they have highest NATION RANKING (together with England and Germany) - get it?
Yeah, and so does Korea/Taiwan, they have 10 slots, EU has 9 because they have the 2nd highest ranking, and America has 8 because their the worst region. So what is your point?
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Guys does anybody know where I can watch the games played between the BW pros at MLG? Like the games where Flash 2-0'd stork and bisu?
thx in advance guys!
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koreans have less personality which makes it hard to get behind them imho more koreans will hurt the scene in the long run i think
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A tournament would really lose credibility in my eyes and many others if top players were arbitrarily excluded. For example, NA players atm are performing so badly on the top stage except maybe Illusion, how could a tournament seriously have 8 NA players and 8 Koreans?
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On June 11 2012 22:20 zuperketla wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2012 22:17 Eee wrote:
Spain does have 4 spanish teams in the Champions League, you can't compare Euro 2012 to MLG because there is not really a Euro 2012 counterpart. We have WCG which is an olympic and every country can send a maximum of three players.
The Korean/Taiwanese seeding slots are restricted to 10, EU has 9 and US has 8. It's completely logical that the region that has the best players has more slots than the other regions. Okey listen up - Spain has 4 teams in the Champions League for a REASON - they have highest NATION RANKING (together with England and Germany) - get it?
Okey listen up - Korea has 19 players in the pools for a reason. The reason is that they did well at the arena and came through the open bracket.
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On June 11 2012 22:23 desRow wrote:
koreans have less personality which makes it hard to get behind them imho more koreans will hurt the scene in the long run i think
Foreingers being shit will hurt the scene in the long run*
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In a few interviews throughout MLG people were saying that foreigners attract more viewers, while Koreans make for better games. Personally I'm MUCH more likely to watch an MLG (or any other tournament) if there are more Koreans. Not necessarily the majority are Koreans, but they're a lot of fun to watch. I'm much less likely to watch if it's just a bunch of foreigners.
I believe it was the first mlg arena, that played at the same time as Assembly, which had mostly Euro foreigners that I've never seen. I didn't watch that tournament.
I don't watch Gomtv because of the hours it plays at, but I certainly love the level of play, which we see at mlg with a lot of koreans.
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Best games over More Viewers debate has not changed because you made an 112367158 post about it.
Best games for me => Koreans should not be limited in the number of their participating players
EDIT: watch some of the interviews made by HotBid during this MLG, a few players give their opinion on that point.
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YEAH MAN I WANA WATCH MA HOME GROWN PEEPS DUKE IT OUT AT THE LOCAL BARN LAN YEAH MA- no I just wanna watch Koreans.
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On June 11 2012 22:13 zuperketla wrote:Should they be allowed to do that because they are the best?
I can´t believe this is a serious question.
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It's not MLG's fault if Koreans do better than "foreigners".
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I definitely want to see more mediocre foreigner vs decent foreigner instead of MKP vs DRG.. Oh wait I don't
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Basically you ask for racism. Get over the fact that foreigners are too bad to get higher representation and move on.
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On June 11 2012 22:13 zuperketla wrote:
MLG this weekend was great - but there is one problem with MLG that is rising higher and higher for every MLG we have. There is way to many Koreans!
There is 19 Koreans in the pools - that is just SICK. How would it look if Spain had 4 teams in the EURO 2012? Should they be allowed to do that because they are the best?
MLG really needs to have a maximum number of players from each country like every other serious sport out there. Make the biggest sc2 nations have a higher "player cap" than the smaller ones - make a seeding based on the country's RANKING.
Example:
Korea rank 1 country in the world: gets to have 8 players travel to MLG
Sweden rank 2 country in the world: gets to have 8 players travel to MLG
Russia rank 5 country in the world: gets to have 5 players travel to MLG
Norway rank 18 in the world: gets to have 1 player travel to MLG
This is a way it could be done - because right now people are losing interest because the tournament is just flooding over with Koreans. Sure we see great play but there is NOTHING more - we need someone to root for, we need the drama outside the match.
MLG last night was great - but after SaSe went out I just went to sleep - it was like there was nothing more to see.
I love the Korean scene but right now MLG might as well change name to GSL.
would suck too cause you have to regrit on the many us players ? or you cant have a new swedish guy in cause there are already 3 ? also its kind of rassistic ... its no world cup its a god damn tournament and its teh same in sports like DART or SNOOKER, you have 99% england people and then a few other xD
the BEST should come for the BEST games so thats whats great no rassistic shit, also it means way more if alot of koreans are in.
PS: why would i also want more guys get 0-2ed from koreans on groupstage ??? i want the best players and if you are good (stephano etc) you make 5-0 in group and just dont care !
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On June 11 2012 22:23 desRow wrote:
koreans have less personality which makes it hard to get behind them imho more koreans will hurt the scene in the long run i think
Then you get the Koreans like MC or MKP who do have personality and are still awesome who get tons of fans.
Yeah many Koreans have no personality but things like GSL Off the Record, interviews, steaming can all change that. Letting foreigners win on purpose hurts the scene a lot more.
There's always going to be tournaments without a ton of Koreans that foreigners can win. But the biggest and most prestigious (like MLG, IPL, etc.) need to be completely fair, or they need to be structured by country like WCS.
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On June 11 2012 22:23 desRow wrote:
koreans have less personality which makes it hard to get behind them imho more koreans will hurt the scene in the long run i think
Lol. Personality has nothing to do with nationality
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For me the point is:
We don't have high quality foreigner only tournaments.
It's nice to have MLG and watch some koreans playing in a differente style then GSL, but some times I miss the foreigner vs foreigner, and at this point I really think that watching Stephano vs SaSe, Socke vs Grubby and even Idra vs RandomDude6Pooling is as fun as watching DRG vs MKP or any high level korean.
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On June 11 2012 22:20 zuperketla wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2012 22:17 Eee wrote:
Spain does have 4 spanish teams in the Champions League, you can't compare Euro 2012 to MLG because there is not really a Euro 2012 counterpart. We have WCG which is an olympic and every country can send a maximum of three players.
The Korean/Taiwanese seeding slots are restricted to 10, EU has 9 and US has 8. It's completely logical that the region that has the best players has more slots than the other regions. Okey listen up - Spain has 4 teams in the Champions League for a REASON - they have highest NATION RANKING (together with England and Germany) - get it?
if its going by skill ...
frensh 1 germany 1 netherland 1 sweden 3 and the rest ahe to be korea
use have at the moment the most players they would have max 1 player ... its al failed cause if its going by success and skill its even MORE koreans !
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If USA or Germany or another western country was the best and had the majority of players at MLG I dont think we would have these sort of threads.
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On June 11 2012 22:29 NasKe_ wrote:
For me the point is:
We don't have high quality foreigner only tournaments.
Dreamhack ( ok, there's some koreans but only couple)
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As long as the games are entertaining to watch, i dont care if whole mlg would be bunch of koreans.
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On June 11 2012 22:29 Grovbolle wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2012 22:23 desRow wrote:
koreans have less personality which makes it hard to get behind them imho more koreans will hurt the scene in the long run i think Lol. Personality has nothing to do with nationality
no its just you pissed because they cant speak english well ...
dont tell me its less personality if i see MC he does more ceremony then any foreign and dude u saw the backflip of leta ? ...
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On June 11 2012 22:23 desRow wrote:
koreans have less personality which makes it hard to get behind them imho more koreans will hurt the scene in the long run i think
Oh come on desRow... It's not that they don't have personality, some of them just have a difficult time showing their personality because of the language barrier.
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On June 11 2012 22:29 SimDawg wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2012 22:23 desRow wrote:
koreans have less personality which makes it hard to get behind them imho more koreans will hurt the scene in the long run i think Then you get the Koreans like MC or MKP who do have personality and are still awesome who get tons of fans. Yeah many Koreans have no personality but things like GSL Off the Record, interviews, steaming can all change that. Letting foreigners win on purpose hurts the scene a lot more. There's always going to be tournaments without a ton of Koreans that foreigners can win. But the biggest and most prestigious (like MLG, IPL, etc.) need to be completely fair, or they need to be structured by country like WCS.
Maybe we just think they have less personality because they don't speak english and post on TL?
Plus behaving like a dick (i.e. naniwa) is a lame excuse for personality.
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I think a lot more people would get upset over having Ostojiy-Select (no offense meant to named players) duking it out for 25k in the MLG final than there are people upset over lack of foreign personalities getting deep into tournaments.
Hell, this MLG we even had two foreigners in top6, and several quite well known/high profile koreans there too.
It couldve been a lot worse.
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I agree with the ranking-based slots in the op
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On June 11 2012 22:23 desRow wrote:
koreans have less personality which makes it hard to get behind them imho more koreans will hurt the scene in the long run i think
I'm pretty sure i'd rather watch someone who's good rather than someone who is shitty but screams a lot
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It is an individual game, nationality doesn't matter. Look at Tennis, there were 2 spannish in the ro4 of Roland Garos. Should we limit spannish player in Roland Garros? Makes no sense.
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I don't think MLG needs to be a league that limits the amount of players from a certain country, that would be really stupid and it would de-legitimize the entire tournament.
There's a reason people didn't take Naniwa's MLG dallas win that seriously; because there were no koreans. Really, would anyone take a SaSe or Stephano win at MLG seriously if it may just have very well been because they didn't let MKP, Bomber, MC, Nestea, etc. come to the tournament?
It would turn the tournament into a kiddie pool of sorts.
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United States97276 Posts
obligatory Too many Koreans! thread before and after every MLG? theres no way MLG is going to put a country cap on the players. It's an open tournament, not an invitational.
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Read the LR thread from around the time that the US finals were. As much as people bemoan the fact that top 10s consist mainly of koreans they are not willing to sacrifice top quality starcraft for that. The predominant hope is that foreigners can raise their game to diminish Korean dominance not that it will be legislated against (and thus reducing the strength of fields.)
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On June 11 2012 22:32 Lazzi wrote:
It is an individual game, nationality doesn't matter. Look at Tennis, there were 2 spannish in the ro4 of Roland Garos. Should we limit spannish player in Roland Garros? Makes no sense.
There also was 14/16 Europeans in top16.
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Limit the number of koreans? lol
should limit the number of foreigners instead so you don't get bad players (and then shitty games).
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Foreigners are hurting e-sports!
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So we should watch more foreign mediocrity? Not saying foreigners are bad (Stephano, Thorzain etc are shining examples of great foreign players), but most if not all the korean invites are top caliber players, and I'd rather watch them play as I'll learn more.
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On June 11 2012 22:34 zezamer wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2012 22:32 Lazzi wrote:
It is an individual game, nationality doesn't matter. Look at Tennis, there were 2 spannish in the ro4 of Roland Garos. Should we limit spannish player in Roland Garros? Makes no sense. There also was 14/16 Europeans in top16.
Quick, limit the Europeans !!
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Australia18228 Posts
Seeded Pool play
13 Netherland
1 Korea
1 France
1 Germany
Open Bracket
63 United States
15 Canada
1 Poland
1 Mexico
13 Korea
1 United Kingdom
3 Sweden
1 Serbia
1 New Zealand
29 Unknown
Seeded Open Bracket
1 Sweden
3 United States
9 Korea
1 United Kingdom
2 Canada
1 Netherlands
Total
66 United States
23 Korea
17 Canada
14 Netherlands
4 Sweden
2 United Kingdom
1 Germany
1 Poland
1 Mexico
1 Serbia
1 New Zealand
29 Unknown
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dude what the hell are you talking about. Grown up. Understand that in every sport you need the best competing, even if they are koreans. Look at Real Madri, Barcelona and most of the big teams. They are full of foreigners because they are better.
It's not a matter of nationality, it's simply a matter of the better players.
For this shitty nationality stuff that u want Blizzard is doing the WCS so you will get your fair share of patriotism.
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This is a dumb thread. Koreans can easily fix the personality problem while showing amazing games. I can't say the same for foregniors. You want foregniors to play better? Stop watching them, give them a reason to play 100 percent.
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On June 11 2012 22:13 zuperketla wrote:
MLG this weekend was great - but there is one problem with MLG that is rising higher and higher for every MLG we have. There is way to many Koreans!
There is 19 Koreans in the pools - that is just SICK. How would it look if Spain had 4 teams in the EURO 2012? Should they be allowed to do that because they are the best?
MLG really needs to have a maximum number of players from each country like every other serious sport out there. Make the biggest sc2 nations have a higher "player cap" than the smaller ones - make a seeding based on the country's RANKING.
Example:
Korea rank 1 country in the world: gets to have 8 players travel to MLG
Sweden rank 2 country in the world: gets to have 8 players travel to MLG
Russia rank 5 country in the world: gets to have 5 players travel to MLG
Norway rank 18 in the world: gets to have 1 player travel to MLG
This is a way it could be done - because right now people are losing interest because the tournament is just flooding over with Koreans. Sure we see great play but there is NOTHING more - we need someone to root for, we need the drama outside the match.
MLG last night was great - but after SaSe went out I just went to sleep - it was like there was nothing more to see.
I love the Korean scene but right now MLG might as well change name to GSL.
So,
Norway rank 22 in the world: get 1 player
Russia rank 21in the world: get 1 player
Sweden rank 19 in the world: get 2 player
Korean skips 18 rank higher than the world, which is rank 1: get 19 players.
Seems fair to me.
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On June 11 2012 22:31 Kreb wrote:
I think a lot more people would get upset over having Ostojiy-Select (no offense meant to named players) duking it out for 25k in the MLG final than there are people upset over lack of foreign personalities getting deep into tournaments.
Hell, this MLG we even had two foreigners in top6, and several quite well known/high profile koreans there too.
It couldve been a lot worse.
The Korean haters will complain that Select is "Korean" and we'll see another whine thread. Lol. Others will complain because it's so much better to watch DRG vs Alicia.
So I heard the OP likes to watch mediocre tournaments. Might as well watch a stream of a bronze league player, you're not gonna see many Koreans there.
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you can't limit how many players per country can be in mlg because its not countries that send players there its teams that are multi-national. and mlg isn't world championships or olympics or anything its just random tournament circuit
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i feel like this thread is a troll
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On June 11 2012 22:36 torm3ntin wrote:
dude what the hell are you talking about. Grown up. Understand that in every sport you need the best competing, even if they are koreans. Look at Real Madri, Barcelona and most of the big teams. They are full of foreigners because they are better.
It's not a matter of nationality, it's simply a matter of the better players.
For this shitty nationality stuff that u want Blizzard is doing the WCS so you will get your fair share of patriotism.
using barcelona as an exemple isn't quite accurate atm :D
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How can.there be too many Koreans if there was no Startale players? I didn't see Boxer, MMA, pee a lot of GSL players either. Where was Hero? Where was Zenio? They're Koreans that are part of Team Liquid, so they should be included right?
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Wow, seriously, this isn't a personality contest, this is starcraft 2. You know the game were the BETTER player wins. Why would we want bad players lose to better player just because the aren't koreans?
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MLG is a tournament where they try to make the best games with the best players and you can't really make that happen without koreans for the moment. If you want to see foreigners play and don't care that they might not be the best in the world right now then watch showmatches and WCS qualifiers and stuff like that.
It's really that simple. I can't believe people keep making threads about this.
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On June 11 2012 22:17 snexwang wrote:
Nah, I'd rather watch the best games.
This. Skill takes precedence over nationalism.
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There are obviously pros and cons for both arguments.
Champions league is deliberately and stubbornly holding to their concept of not allowing more than 4 clubs per nation. They even changed the system a few years ago to make it easier for weaker nations to have at least 1 representative club.
Weaker nations love it, but bigger nations are calling for a sort of superleague where England, Spain, Italy and Germany would have 7-8 representatives.
Personally, I don't mind the Koreans as long as we have at least a few foreigners in it - I probably wouldn't watch an MLG with no foreigners in and that could easily happen soon:
Picture it when Stephano & Thorzain go to Korea, Naniwa and Sase for example stay/qualify for GSL Code S/A, and others like Huk for example can't attend - BOOM all Koreans in the main thing, while the foreigners bash each other in the Open Bracket. Along with some more Koreans.
If it doesn't happen this way, it will happen once the Kespa guys get good. That's like 15 more MMA level players within 6 months.
It would be ideal if foreigners simply kept earning their places, because it would be a shame to have to put a cap on the number of Koreans. It would mean fake competition and would decrease the prestige of winning MLGs...
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On June 11 2012 22:37 Heh_ wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2012 22:31 Kreb wrote:
I think a lot more people would get upset over having Ostojiy-Select (no offense meant to named players) duking it out for 25k in the MLG final than there are people upset over lack of foreign personalities getting deep into tournaments.
Hell, this MLG we even had two foreigners in top6, and several quite well known/high profile koreans there too.
It couldve been a lot worse. . So I heard the OP likes to watch mediocre tournaments. Might as well watch a stream of a bronze league player, you're not gonna see many Koreans there.
It's not like there's not tons of mediocre tournaments, too. They just aren't winning 25k for being mediocre.
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This is why the WCS is going to be so awesome.
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Read the 2 first paragraphs from the OP and I came to the conclusion this guy doesn't know what he's talking about.
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Had this thread a few days ago:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=342877
Got closed by mod so don't hold high hopes for this thread. I thought it was hilarious that Huk basically expressed the exact same thoughts during his MLG interview though.
Of course we can't have this thread without someone crying 'racism', but I think a civilised argument can avoid that. The question is whether viewership is directly related to the ratio of Koreans to Foreigners.
Most people here will contend that they want to see the 'best' games, and therefore it doesn't matter how many Koreans attend. Be aware of course, that TL is visited by hardcore fans by and large, and this attitude may not hold true for a general SC fan.
The counter argument is that yes, viewership is affected by the ratio, because people like rooting for the 'home team', 'home player' etc, and having less foreigners takes away this element of enjoyment from watching the sport.
Finally be reminded of the difference between 'prescriptive' and 'descriptive'. That is, what 'should' be the case is not necessarily what 'is' the case. In other words, people probably shouldn't care where players are from, but in reality, they do.
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This is a really touchy subject so I hope I don't mess this up. The "problem" with Korean players is not that they are Korean, it's that they are foreign to us (ironic right?). I can't relate to a quiet Korean player AT ALL, because the language has no similarities and they have distinct features I don't. When I watch an interview with a translator and the player is not able to communicate with the audience in any way at all using body language, excitement or whatever, and the only information I get is from the translator, that player is barely human in my eyes. Absolutely zero personality for me to relate to.
Obligatory "I'm not racist" comment, I won't even reply to accusations.
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Oh look, it's this thread again...
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No.
Better players deserve to win more. These threads should stop, not even funny anymore.
Instead of whining on teamliquid go train some more.
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leta / fbh / jaedong / mc have way more personality than alot of foreigners, and not in the "i'm gonna behave like an self indulged narcissistic person" way, and if you are going by personality determined by their in-game play style like thorzain originally was for being a slow a methodical player there's hundreds of examples. Alot of koreans play it safe and by the books in interviews and post game (besides ceremonies) not because they don't have personality, but because it's customary and also seen as professional.
nationality should be irrelevant in international events, GSL is inviting more foreigners and MLG should invite more koreans, if they are qualified and skilled enough. Simple as that.
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This is a way it could be done - because right now people are losing interest because the tournament is just flooding over with Koreans. Sure we see great play but there is NOTHING more - we need someone to root for, we need the drama outside the match.
Swing and miss.
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I wish twice as many Koreans went to MLGs.
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On June 11 2012 22:42 Roachu wrote:
This is a really touchy subject so I hope I don't mess this up. The "problem" with Korean players is not that they are Korean, it's that they are foreign to us (ironic right?). I can't relate to a quiet Korean player AT ALL, because the language has no similarities and they have distinct features I don't. When I watch an interview with a translator and the player is not able to communicate with the audience in any way at all using body language, excitement or whatever, and the only information I get is from the translator, that player is barely human in my eyes. Absolutely zero personality for me to relate to.
Obligatory "I'm not racist" comment, I won't even reply to accusations.
Zero persnoalities? Have you seen MC or DRG or even MKP? Have you ever seen an other player than MC dances when he wins? Come on, don't try to find stupid argument to justify your racist way of thinkng.
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the most fun and exciting games are those where foreigners and koreans play each other.
only koreans is often great entertainment, but thats why we have gsl, gstl, ewm, ksl, proleague and such..
mlg has so far been a place to see the best foreigners playing the best koreans, but now its turning into gsl and i can only agree with the original post..
yes, spain has 4 teams in champions league, but they do not have 10. why? because entertainment. because they want to make money and have viewers.
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He is not saying BAN the Koreans, he is saying limit the number - it is getting way to many.
aLive, Inori, Golden, Dream, Rain, Ganzi, JYP are all in the pool - do we really care about them? mediocre Koreans vs each other is why we watch GSL.
lets say we had White-ra, Kas, Snute, Dimaga,nechio,sen, happy instead.
Which lineup would you rather watch?
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I admit i don't give a flying ducky about korean players (i chose to watch the fighting games instead of the sc2 finals), but top spots should go to the top guys and those happen to be koreans.
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1. Stop being racist
2. Foreigners did very well this MLG anyway
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On June 11 2012 22:41 Fueled wrote:
This is why the WCS is going to be so awesome.
4 koreans dominating everyone else, like every other time when a limited number of top koreans participated in tournaments with seeds based on nationality. MLG/Blizzcon/WCG/IEM last year prove that inviting a few koreans just means those few koreans faceroll through the pools. I personally consider korean vs. foreigner smackdowns not very entertaining and making the first pool phase of the tournament a complete joke, see last year.
The problem is that there's not enough good foreigners, not that there's too many koreans.
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On June 11 2012 22:45 nokaah wrote:
He is not saying BAN the Koreans, he is saying limit the number - it is getting way to many.
aLive, Inori, Golden, Dream, Rain, Ganzi, JYP are all in the pool - do we really care about them? mediocre Koreans vs each other is why we watch GSL.
lets say we had White-ra, Kas, Snute, Dimaga,nechio,sen, happy instead.
Which lineup would you rather watch?
the snd line up is awful compared to the 1st one.
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On June 11 2012 22:45 Lazzi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2012 22:42 Roachu wrote:
This is a really touchy subject so I hope I don't mess this up. The "problem" with Korean players is not that they are Korean, it's that they are foreign to us (ironic right?). I can't relate to a quiet Korean player AT ALL, because the language has no similarities and they have distinct features I don't. When I watch an interview with a translator and the player is not able to communicate with the audience in any way at all using body language, excitement or whatever, and the only information I get is from the translator, that player is barely human in my eyes. Absolutely zero personality for me to relate to.
Obligatory "I'm not racist" comment, I won't even reply to accusations. Zero persnoalities? Have you seen MC or DRG or even MKP? Have you ever seen an other player than MC dances when he wins? Come on, don't try to find stupid argument to justify your racist way of thinkng.
I don't think you can deny that a TON of personality is lost in translation can you?
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I have an alternative idea: how about we just leave everything the way it is as it is clearly the most logical and sensical thing to do? >.>
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On June 11 2012 22:42 Roachu wrote:
This is a really touchy subject so I hope I don't mess this up. The "problem" with Korean players is not that they are Korean, it's that they are foreign to us (ironic right?). I can't relate to a quiet Korean player AT ALL, because the language has no similarities and they have distinct features I don't. When I watch an interview with a translator and the player is not able to communicate with the audience in any way at all using body language, excitement or whatever, and the only information I get is from the translator, that player is barely human in my eyes. Absolutely zero personality for me to relate to.
Obligatory "I'm not racist" comment, I won't even reply to accusations.
This is really funny to me because AFAIK and from personal experience (born chinese in china, been to every asian country bar Philippines and Bangladesh, yes even north korea, currently residing in Canada), south korea and japan are the most open to westerners areas with the most western influence since korean war / WWII respectively, shouldn't it be on you the person who is capable of easily traveling or accessing information to gain cultural context where as it's historically been alot harder for middle class / young people from asian countries to come to or know anything about western countries?
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I wonder how many of these threads we're going to get this week.
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On June 11 2012 22:23 desRow wrote:
koreans have less personality which makes it hard to get behind them imho more koreans will hurt the scene in the long run i think
say that again?
Why did foreigners have awesome stuff like MC teemo or leta backflip or MKP reddit hand sign or DRG awesome glasses or Boxer chanting...
I sure don't recall any
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On June 11 2012 22:42 Roachu wrote:
This is a really touchy subject so I hope I don't mess this up. The "problem" with Korean players is not that they are Korean, it's that they are foreign to us (ironic right?). I can't relate to a quiet Korean player AT ALL, because the language has no similarities and they have distinct features I don't. When I watch an interview with a translator and the player is not able to communicate with the audience in any way at all using body language, excitement or whatever, and the only information I get is from the translator, that player is barely human in my eyes. Absolutely zero personality for me to relate to.
Obligatory "I'm not racist" comment, I won't even reply to accusations.
If you didn't see the personality and excitement in DRG last night, then you are just clueless.
Besides that, every U.S. player consistently performs like shit in MLG (and pretty much every other tournament). Does that mean I should stop watching MLG? No. I actually appreciate great games. Sure, you can root for foreigners/people from your country, but to seriously suggest that we should limit the amount of Koreans is stupid on so many levels that it hurts to think about it. SC2 will die if you try to segregate Korea and the foreign scene. Why? Because the Koreans are the best players, hands down, and more people will flock to watch them than to watch foreigners, even if they are the "home team". It's the same with other e-sports and even with other sports in general.
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tell the foreigners to stop playing only 3 hours a day and to step up their game.
also, SaSe is a beast
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if it was a team base game then ok but its not its a 1 on 1 if the top 50 players was all korean then they should be the ones that play
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lets go back to mlg pre gsl cooperation where the finals were idra vs select
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Most of those koreans were invited by their good showing in previous MLG if i'm not mistaken. So should we just tell them "sry we cant invite you because you are korean lol you are not allowed to play here" that is just racism gtfo.
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I don't have a problem with this, i want to see the bet games possible, and if that is what a ton koreans provides than I want it to be that way.
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On June 11 2012 22:48 ETisME wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2012 22:23 desRow wrote:
koreans have less personality which makes it hard to get behind them imho more koreans will hurt the scene in the long run i think say that again? Why did foreigners have awesome stuff like MC teemo or leta backflip or MKP reddit hand sign or DRG awesome glasses or Boxer chanting... I sure don't recall any
idra bm is personality
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leta / fbh / jaedong / mc have way more personality than alot of foreigners
+ Show Spoiler +
I agree man no personality what so ever 
But seriously, maybe the average korean pro-gamer is a bit shy/modest, but then you have these guys that just go crazy and it makes it 10 times better because you aren't expecting it out of them.
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again ?
Stop making this kind of thread.
MLG is a tournament. What is the problem to have the best players playing each other to win ?
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On June 11 2012 22:50 farnham wrote:
lets go back to mlg pre gsl cooperation where the finals were idra vs select
i wouldnt mind watching that to be honest.. hardly watched any games this time around. Mostly watched the stephano or sase ones..
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That's what WCG is for.
And about Korean players not having personality? Somebody doesn't follow the Korean scene AT ALL. The only foreigners I've seen do some sort of ceremony recently were Naniwa and Huk.
Just because they can't speak english too well doesn't mean they don't have a personality.
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It doesn't matter what nationality the person is, as long as they practice like crazy (like how sase spent months training in Korea) they will improve and get good results
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Yup this thread won't last long.
Foreigners just have to step up their game.
Limiting the numbers of Korean because they are better is plain bullshit just.LOL
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On June 11 2012 22:45 nokaah wrote:
He is not saying BAN the Koreans, he is saying limit the number - it is getting way to many.
aLive, Inori, Golden, Dream, Rain, Ganzi, JYP are all in the pool - do we really care about them? mediocre Koreans vs each other is why we watch GSL.
lets say we had White-ra, Kas, Snute, Dimaga,nechio,sen, happy instead.
Which lineup would you rather watch?
I'd rather watch aLive, Rain, JYP and Ganzi since I root for them.
I don't know why you picked those foreigner players, but the only one I'd like to watch is White-Ra since he's cool, but not because he's on as high level of play as koreans.
Most foreginer are as anonymous as koreans so I don't see the point in this at all.
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I think tournaments should be about skill, not about racism.
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On June 11 2012 22:51 farnham wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2012 22:48 ETisME wrote:On June 11 2012 22:23 desRow wrote:
koreans have less personality which makes it hard to get behind them imho more koreans will hurt the scene in the long run i think say that again? Why did foreigners have awesome stuff like MC teemo or leta backflip or MKP reddit hand sign or DRG awesome glasses or Boxer chanting... I sure don't recall any idra bm is personality
You realize alot of korean organizations don't allow BM, right out ban it, or just prevents it from happening right. Like best example if FBH after moving to Air Force Ace which is sponsored by the korean air force doesn't do as many ceremonies any more, they removed chat option being visible in alot of korean events because people used to swear on them, the list goes on. Koreans don't see it as being professional and often have to apologize profusely or recieve team / league punishment for actual bm (not the joking kind).
Alot of korean esports have had histories of being partnered with sponsors from things like Banks, Air Force, major tele-communications companies, major korean air lines, etc; hence why the more safe chat and professionalism, it's not because they don't have any personality.
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How many times are these threads going to pop up after each event? If you don't want to watch the highest level of competition then you can get the fuck out of the community. You have no buisness being part of TL at the very least.
This is not a competition of national teams. It's a competition of multinational teams. How are you going to tell EG that they can only send 2 of their players becuase you've put in some ridiculous rule that only 6 americans can partake in the entire event. No one but a moron would rather watch a diamond player in a mohawk than the best players in the world. I mean why the hell are you even watching sc2 if you don't like the actual game but are just looking for cool/funny people? You should consider watching reality TV instead of you're not at all interested in the competition.
Conclusion: The problem is in your head. Please stop posting on a forum that celebrates competetive gaming if you want to insert measures that stifles competition and undermines the whole scene at the same time.
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On June 11 2012 22:51 Fueled wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I agree man no personality what so ever But seriously, maybe the average korean pro-gamer is a bit shy/modest, but then you have these guys that just go crazy and it makes it 10 times better because you aren't expecting it out of them.
HotBid did some great interviews at MLG this weekend, 2 with Koreans. As an exercise, watch (or show to someone) the HuK, desrow, MKP and DRG interviews, and see what personality traits you/they can assign to those players from those interviews. In my opinion it's easier to do for the foreigners.
Not saying that Koreans don't have personality, I just don't think it comes across the translation barrier in interviews. This may be also down to the interviewer being different when interviewing foreigners and Koreans, but that will be universal across interviewers I feel, because they simply can't joke around as much I don't think.
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So is the problem that people feel they have no personality or that they keep winning? There was a WCS tournament this weekend if I'm not mistaken won by Vibe. Guessing that wasn't good enough cause it wasn't the main tournament. I'd rather watch the best players honestly don't really care where they are from.
The whole idea of someone to root for because they aren't as good makes no sense. Put a cap on koreans or is it put a cap on the country that has the best players?
We cap all korean players to a limit of 6 or whatever number you want and someone wins that we know is going to get smashed in another tournament that has no cap. We build up the hype cause insert Player X from the US or Germany won MLG then we hype how amazing they are and then watch them get rolled at a tournament that has no cap. Why even fool yourself that way seriously.
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so you play the racism card? very simple and weak, but expected from most of you. I am not saying BAN them all, just limit the number, 19 Koreans in the top 24 is just not entertaining with viewers from all around the world 
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i kinda agree with this but at the same time those koreans in the brackets werent invited, which mean they pay their own money to come here and compete and its fair for them to go far if they have more skill than foreigners
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On June 11 2012 22:17 snexwang wrote:
Nah, I'd rather watch the best games.
True, I'd rather watch these guys and learn more from them. I don't care if there will be more and more koreans. Just wait Foreigners will be match them someday. Just look at Stephano and Sase. We can do it! More koreans = more challenges.
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On June 11 2012 22:41 Fueled wrote:
This is why the WCS is going to be so awesome.
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this is a liberal mindset and a sad one at best. lets punish those who work hard and are good and give out stuff for free to those who dont.
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On June 11 2012 22:45 nokaah wrote:
He is not saying BAN the Koreans, he is saying limit the number - it is getting way to many.
aLive, Inori, Golden, Dream, Rain, Ganzi, JYP are all in the pool - do we really care about them? mediocre Koreans vs each other is why we watch GSL.
lets say we had White-ra, Kas, Snute, Dimaga,nechio,sen, happy instead.
Which lineup would you rather watch?
aLive, Golden, Rain, JYP all came from Open Bracket. So you're saying we should limit Koreans in the open bracket too?
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EPT
