EPTTvP Lategame comment from Blizzard - Page 3
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Steelo_Rivers
United States1968 Posts
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S_SienZ
1878 Posts
The game will only get later as time goes on, it's incredibly suffocating to constantly play with a ticking time bomb over your face. It's fine having phases where one race is stronger than the other, but ultimate late game should be a relatively even playing field. It's retarded that players can generally guess who wins by looking at the replay length. | ||
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Gamegene
United States8308 Posts
It's hard to do that against a competent player who knows that as well. Losing medivacs full of units is effectively 10 supply and a lot of gas wasted. | ||
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SolidMoose
United States1240 Posts
On May 04 2012 13:52 Kharnage wrote: What would you have them do? Terran uses the same units in lategame as early game. how can they buff or change those units without making the mid/early game a steamroll in terrans favour? The ghost? Which only comes into play late game, yet they nerfed it. Or nerf HT/Archon, which are also only a late game issue. | ||
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Charger
United States2405 Posts
On May 04 2012 13:55 laharl23 wrote: My god they aren't saying that you have to end the game with a 1-2 base all in, they are saying because terran is very mobile with drops/bio and toss kind of just has to sit in their base during the early/mid game that terran has to get an advantage and take it into the late game. One gsl protosses start doing well and all of a sudden pvt is out of control, but people forget about the last 5 tvt finals we had before that -.- balance whines never end well, people only read what they want to see and completely miss the point of what blizzard is trying to say. No, TvP has been progressively getting worse for a long time. Believe it or not, mid game harass is much harder when the other player is sitting in their base defending. | ||
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larse
1611 Posts
Every race should have equal power in the late-game. Why? Because Late-game is not a relative term in SC2. What Late-game means is a 200 vs 200 standoff or clash. If one race has a disadvantage in this max-out situation, it's simply unfair. Guess what people would do then? They will not let the game go into this 200 vs 200 situation. They will try to win the game before max-out. There is no other way out. I simply don't think this is a good design philosophy. | ||
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Gamegene
United States8308 Posts
On May 04 2012 14:02 AeroEffect wrote: I think TvP is pretty balanced. If everyone stops trying to be so greedy and play the game how it should be played, then terran should have no problems preventing the protoss from teching and getting weird unit compositions to attack move and win with. I never have any problems tvp simply because I dont 1 rax expand, 15 cc, or do that lame 10 minute 2 base medivac timing anymore because they can picked apart pretty easily. all you need to do is just play the game as a terran knowing how to push your advanatages and play with them accordingly. Im not saying 3 rax every gmae but if you see a protoss 4 gating, why not build 3 rax instead of building a cc and complaining about toss being imba when they break your nat/ramp? We're not even talking about that. | ||
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acrimoneyius
United States983 Posts
On May 04 2012 13:57 laLAlA[uC] wrote: This has been around since brood war... Terran is strongest late game. They have to turtle with their mech army and the Protoss just has to mass expand and get really huge or break terran early in order to win. A critical difference are the engines both games use. BW wasn't as systematic/deterministic as SC2 is. | ||
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Tyree
1508 Posts
Basically BW Terran =/= SC2 Terran, this is no longer the turtle race. Protoss has taken that role in SC2. | ||
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PeachTea
United States149 Posts
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CHOMPMannER
Canada175 Posts
derp 200 max army derp 1 a FF 3 TTT GG | ||
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Gamegene
United States8308 Posts
On May 04 2012 14:07 Tyree wrote: What they said is spot on, Terran has a plethora of options on harassing Toss, so that late game is not "equal". Basically BW Terran =/= SC2 Terran, this is no longer the turtle race. Protoss has taken that role in SC2. So where's my stasis field, recall and carriers. Gimme. | ||
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xelnaga_empire
613 Posts
On May 04 2012 14:02 S_SienZ wrote: Protoss players say it's fair to have a mid game advantage for a weaker lategame, when in reality no P in their right mind would want to swap. The game will only get later as time goes on, it's incredibly suffocating to constantly play with a ticking time bomb over your face. It's fine having phases where one race is stronger than the other, but ultimate late game should be a relatively even playing field. It's retarded that players can generally guess who wins by looking at the replay length. ^^^ This. What's the point of watching a TvsP game that has exceeded the 25 minute mark if we know it's a foregone conclusion that P will win? Blizzard should just put a countdown timer on the Terran player's screen and if they don't beat the timer, the Terran player loses! This is just bad game design by Blizzard. | ||
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windsupernova
Mexico5280 Posts
On May 04 2012 13:59 mordk wrote: Isn't this also commonplace in BW? Particularly in TvZ if my memory serves me right. It doesn't mean there won't be a lategame, it doesn't mean there's no chance terran can win vs protoss in the lategame, you're reading it wrong. What Blizz was trying to say is that to increase their chances of winning terran should try to do damage in the midgame, where they have a substantial advantage. OP is making it seem like this philosophy is attempting to destroy terran macro play, which is clearly not the point the post was trying to make. This. But why bother pointing this out when people will read whatever they want to. | ||
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Nizzy
United States839 Posts
Give Terrans the Warhound because Thors are kind of garbage Give tanks 40 base damage (buff vs zealots, nerf vs everything else) This would help spread the Terran army out, the spider mines would give them a nice perimeter style play again. Terran needs to be a good mix of bio/mech. Opening reapers with some spider mines would help defend early fast expand to promote macro games/longer/better games. | ||
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MasterKang
United States1373 Posts
By forcing to terrans to always play aggressive mid-game, I would say they're making the game LESS exciting/varied by limiting the styles that terrans can play, which according to their goals would be counter-productive. | ||
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Avril_Lavigne
United States446 Posts
On May 04 2012 13:58 superstartran wrote: Put back KA into the game and buff EMP back to the old beta radius (where it was fucking massive), problem solved. Issue is that people think KA was so OP when they didn't realize their EMP was massively bigger than Storm before (back in the beta thing was massive). Game becomes more fun to watch, Terran has options late game in that they no longer need like 800 ghosts to EMP P armies down. What???? The KA was CLEARLY BLATANTLY overpowered and utterly imbalanced. EMP and mobius reactor doesn't even come close to how imbalanced the kaydarian amulet was. First of all, you can INSTANTLY warp in HT and INSTANTLY have 75 energy to storm. A defensive reaction that requires zero strategy and zero defensive preparation making ANY form of harrass become remotely useless. Terran on the other hand HAVE to wait for ghosts to finish their train time. Not an immediate reaction upon scouting something but an offensive/defensive strategic preparation. HT's have the cool down but the instant warp in is much more powerful than a training time that of the ghost and all terran units for that matter. Also, the HT KA makes it 100% impossible or to be less biased, 100% more difficult for Terran to have a defenders advantage after an army trade. | ||
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Angel_
United States1617 Posts
Is the problem for people that they expect every race to play the same way? | ||
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Penecks
United States600 Posts
So if we assume the early game (0-7mins~?) is even, the midgame (8-14ish~) is T dominated, and anything after is P dominated, you basically have a several minute window where you better kill an assload of workers, snipe a nexus, some tech, or do some major cost effective trading, or enter the P dominated endgame which doesn't have an upper limit: you are simply at a further disadvantage until you lose. Of course, if either you or the protoss do nothing (as I imagine happens pretty often in lower leagues) he immediately gains an advantage. | ||
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CakeSauc3
United States1437 Posts
We are though. What he's saying is Terran shouldn't be opening up a TvP game with a build that's oriented towards late-game aggression; instead, Terran should open up with a pressure build. I study how MKP plays TvP, and that's how I try to play it, as well. As a result, my TvP is by far my best matchup. Opening with a 2 rax pressure or 3 rax heavy attack is so much better than going for early CC. Protoss tech needs to be delayed by force, or else they *will* destroy your pathetic bio army once their splash damage units are being produced. Just as in TvZ Terran must pressure Zerg to keep their economy down, in TvP Terran must pressure Protoss to keep their tech down. If you challenge Zerg to a No Rush 20 build, you generally lose; if you challenge Protoss to a No Rush 20 build, same dif. | ||
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