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Think twice before hitting post; this thread will be moderated for idiocy and useless posts. Consider this a warning. |
The fact that this thread is filled with such ignorance towards racism shows how pressing the problem is -- this kind of behavior needs to be exorcised from the community.
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On May 02 2012 09:14 nath wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 09:12 Falcor wrote:On May 02 2012 09:10 nath wrote:On May 02 2012 09:09 Falcor wrote:On May 02 2012 09:05 nath wrote:On May 02 2012 09:03 ABagOfFritos wrote:On May 02 2012 09:01 nath wrote:On May 02 2012 09:00 ABagOfFritos wrote:On May 02 2012 08:58 jj33 wrote:On May 02 2012 08:56 ABagOfFritos wrote:
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This is the core issue. People, in general, whatever their background, need to stop thinking of these words in such a way. Nigger is a pretty good example. Black people say they can say it all they want but that nobody else can. So they basically apply a double standard here and are being inherently racist by doing so. Fuck that. OK so go say nigger to a black man on the street and see what happens to you. You can say it's just words, but there is a context to those words that are hurtful to people. Saying it online behind the comfort of your house and behind your computer but not saying it in real life, makes you a real coward. I'm not gonna repeat myself, I'll just ask that you pull your head out of your ass and think for once. another badass white person who thinks its racist that black people dont like when a non-black person says nigger. So let's imagine a world in which the only racial slurs are nigger and cracker, and there are white people and black people. Black people can say both of these and nobody cares. Nigger is meant to be derogatory toward black people and cracker toward white. White people can not say either. Does this make sense to you? well, i dont have a problem with those who care about a black person saying cracker. but, you know, white people were not enslaved. yeah so racism is ok because one is worse racism then the other.... not what i said. learn english before posting please. you said nigger is worse the cracker because white people were never enslaved(which is false btw). Sorry i mistyped nigger as a slur has its roots in american slavery, whereas cracker does not have roots in slavery of any kind. so, for the groups of white and black people that these slurs refer to (they are almost exclusively referring to the new world), one clearly refers to a group of enslaved people, and the other does not. sorry if that was not clear.
On May 02 2012 09:13 ABagOfFritos wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 09:11 nath wrote:On May 02 2012 09:09 Domus wrote:
well, i dont have a problem with those who care about a black person saying cracker. but, you know, white people were not enslaved.
Wait, what? So you think slavery is limited to black people? Read up on history please! Every race has been subject to slavery at some point in time. no, i think nigger derived from slave culture, and cracker not so. so the meaning of nigger has to do with slavery, and cracker does not. make sense? Cracker was used by the African slaves in America as a term for the white men who held the whips, which made a cracking sound. Read a fucking history book before you start arguing these things.
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I dont understand this community.
Let me get this straight. If i call a person "x" : faggot, gay, fucker, stupid, fatass, dumbass, retard, idiot and so on is fine but its wrong if i call that same person : nigger, gook,"insert any racial slurs" ..... dafuq ?!
We dont live in the 19th century anymore and either way the person that uses ANY insults is just a raging douchebag. No need to make such a big of a deal out of nothing.
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On May 02 2012 09:13 ABagOfFritos wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 09:11 nath wrote:On May 02 2012 09:09 Domus wrote:
well, i dont have a problem with those who care about a black person saying cracker. but, you know, white people were not enslaved.
Wait, what? So you think slavery is limited to black people? Read up on history please! Every race has been subject to slavery at some point in time. no, i think nigger derived from slave culture, and cracker not so. so the meaning of nigger has to do with slavery, and cracker does not. make sense? Cracker was used by the African slaves in America as a term for the white men who held the whips, which made a cracking sound. Read a fucking history book before you start arguing these things.
which, again, is obviously not referring to that group of people being slaves. in fact you are proving my point, i just explained that it implies a dominant/submissive relationship between whites/blacks, which is why the submissive slur is found to be more insulting...can you not understand that?
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On May 02 2012 09:14 Okiesmokie wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2012 22:29 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
1. This is Destiny's personality.
2. Surely Quantic knew about this, as it's nothing new or well-hidden.
3. You all-inned him, which could very well piss him off (as any person may BM you for it).
We don't need an Orb 2.0 here. All three points applied to Orb as well, and look what happened to him.
Orb denied it and called everyone accusing him a liar...which is when it blew up
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I have red hair and the word "ginger" really offends me. It truly offends me, but guess what?
WHO !@#$ING CARES. I am tired of people being 6 years old and whining about curses and racial slurs; don't be a bunch of babies about words. If you don't like Destiny's language don't watch it, the description says offensive language. People just want to witch hunt whomever they can. So they can feel like they are doing something, people want to act like Destiny's shouldn't be saying this crap when he has RIGHTS as an US citizen, but these same people will STEAL music, movies, etc from site like piratebay and pretend its okay. The logic some people carry is pathetic.
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On May 02 2012 09:15 nath wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 09:13 ABagOfFritos wrote:On May 02 2012 09:11 nath wrote:On May 02 2012 09:09 Domus wrote:
well, i dont have a problem with those who care about a black person saying cracker. but, you know, white people were not enslaved.
Wait, what? So you think slavery is limited to black people? Read up on history please! Every race has been subject to slavery at some point in time. no, i think nigger derived from slave culture, and cracker not so. so the meaning of nigger has to do with slavery, and cracker does not. make sense? Cracker was used by the African slaves in America as a term for the white men who held the whips, which made a cracking sound. Read a fucking history book before you start arguing these things. which, again, is obviously not referring to that group of people being slaves. in fact you are proving my point, i just explained that it implies a dominant/submissive relationship between whites/blacks, which is why the submissive slur is found to be more insulting...can you not understand that?
Your statement was not so. You said it has no roots of any sort in slavery, I explained that it does.
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On May 02 2012 09:11 Morufi1 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 09:09 dUTtrOACh wrote:On May 02 2012 09:03 Morufi1 wrote:
I can't believe i just made an account to respond to this Thread, but after reading the first 75 Pages in the last hours i am just shocked.
There are really people out there, that get "offended" by this? To explain my thoughts:
1. I think that all the drama is leading to the exact opposite of what is wanted: When someone insults someone he wants to hit him in some way and because the normal "fucks" or "faggots" are widely acceptet, he has to cross some borders and for example use racist vocabulary. Yes by saying this i state, that i think Destiny knew exactly that his words are considered racist by some, are crossing an unspoken border. I think that the people who are making a fuss about it are therefore partly in fault for the usage of these words.
Furthermore by giving these "racist" words a special treatment they are supporting racism. Somebody already said this, i think, and was questioned about it but did not answer to the page i read. This point may be arguable, but i think there is the possibility, that treating these words special and therefore admitting that a "racist" insult is worse then something like "faggot, i hate you die" are supporting racism, because in their heads there is a difference between these insults. If someone is insulted by something it should be treated equally no matter what is the topic. But ok, this may be arguable and is not that important.
2. I never thought that people really thought of todays professional sport / political scene as something good. I thought that the hypocrisy was disliked by the majority, but now i must read that people WANT them to wear masks and not saying what they think. This is probably which i like most about the esport scene: They are on most parts more honest and don't have to reconsider every word they speak because someone somewhere may think he is offended by it. I like the honest asshole much more than the lying nice guy. Why is today racism still a problem? Because people are nice on the outside and when they think they are unwatched by society are letting out all their hatred (which they got because they are not allowed to let it out, they think that there must be some kind of a big conspiracy, because they are forbidden to say what for them is an undeniable truth. This may go too far, but i think that it is no coincidence that many extremists are thinking there is some kind of conspiracy, but again this is arguable and not that important).
3. To come back to my starting point: There are really people who think someone new to the scene clicks on a "featured link" and, after reading the warning of offensive language, proceed and then getting really pissed by something like "gook", a word i (and a friend of mine born in vietnam) didn't even know, so they will turn away from the whole scene and especially think "wow, razer supports racists, i never will buy their products again"? I always thought this type of people was only invented by bad TV show in which older people complain about how rotten the youth is. If they don't think that will happen and the OP stated that he was not thinking Destiny was racist, why are they complaining about the situation? Seriously, this is not a rhetoric question, i want to understand. (If you respond to this: "I am getting offended by this and i will not buy products from someone who supports such player" please explain to me why. I am feeling like if this is the situation not Destiny is the problem but you are, because you are offended by something which has to do nothing with you and thereby creating the whole fuss.)
Conclusion: Without taking it to a personal level, i think the attitude displayed by some here is a big part of what i dislike in today's society. Getting upset about something just for the reason of improving their status, washing themselves from those sins. They are projecting something (i would like to call it self-hatred, but that would probably too easy, because i actually don't understand them enough.) onto others and thereby forcing the society to become hypocritical to an unbearable degree.
I honestly can't believe that all these posts are made by people, who are "offended" and not by people who are just hating destiny (a thing i can understand, i don't like him so i did not watch his stream often) and searching for a method to destroy him. I don't WANT to believe it. I probably was never so sad about the community / mankind.
Am i mad? Yes to a certain degree, i am.
TL:DR - I couldn't get past point 1. Calling people faggots is not widely accepted by anything other than the lowest common denominator. Resorting to racism is not some way to drive some point home, or anything else. It's a little troll, hiding behind the anonimity of the internet, or in Destiny's case, hiding behind his fan-base to say whatever the fuck he wants, consequence free. Obviously this kid's parents never taught him manners. It's a shame that TL moderators have to do this, but let's hope old dogs can learn new tricks, and that Destiny grows out his "persona". You say that and yet i don't see any threads about non-racist insults. Why?
Awesome / Confusing BM is one.
Also, I remember during the Orb fiasco many people were bringing up the fact that Idra calls people faggots all the time, and that the word faggot is not acceptable. Perhaps TeamLiquid is visited by more Asians than homosexuals in a day? I don't have the numbers and I don't personally open a thread every time someone calls me a faggot for bunker rushing them. Then again, I've never been slurred by a community figure in such a reprehensible way, and I'm not gay. I'd continue, but maybe you're getting my point? Maybe?
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On May 02 2012 09:12 nath wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 09:11 Orracle wrote:On May 02 2012 09:05 nath wrote:
well, i dont have a problem with those who care about a black person saying cracker. but, you know, white people were not enslaved. This whole enslavement argument is straight up silly. You know nothing of slavery. You never experienced it, nor have your parents. What about the camps made for Japanese during WWII? You don't hear Japanese people still hanging onto that. What about the Jews and concentration camps? The list goes on. The fact is, with age comes change. its not a formal argument for anything actually, its the reason that nigger is more offensive than cracker. you think that holocaust jokes are funny, by your logic?
Ironically, I am Jewish. Yes, I don't have a single problem with jokes, but are they funny? Some are, some aren't. For an arbitrary example, lets say I'm playing a game and beat a guy. Before leaving the game, he says something along the lines of "You nigger jew, I hope you burn in an oven." Would I take offense to that? Absolutely not. His whole purpose was to get back at me for winning. Is he a racist? Likely not, and if so, I could careless. Nothing I can do to change his mind, why bother?
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On May 02 2012 02:12 Destiny wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 02:00 intrigue wrote:
guys, i'd like to let you know that i've suffered a bit in my life. that means i know what the world is like. i also never make mistakes, because, as i've mentioned, i've been through some hardship. this qualifies me to make sweeping social critiques that spans way beyond any of our lifetimes. fuck the empty media! Seriously? Who is this faggot? I thought the colored name or w/e meant he was a mod or some shit? How fucking mad are you right now, bro? User was warned for this post
A complete show of ignorance and disrespect. Intrigue is female, fyi.
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TL's good at warning random posters -- but none of us make a difference to Esports. Obviously that's all they can do until upper-level decisions are made but those are the fucking important ones.
Deal with destiny, stop letting him slide im tired of double standard bullshit. I will go to sponsors if something isnt done within a week.
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On May 02 2012 09:05 Domus wrote:So, isn't it time to close this thread  ? Complaint filed, complaint handled, time to lock and let it sink to the bottom of the forum.
Agreed.
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On May 02 2012 09:16 ABagOfFritos wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 09:15 nath wrote:On May 02 2012 09:13 ABagOfFritos wrote:On May 02 2012 09:11 nath wrote:On May 02 2012 09:09 Domus wrote:
well, i dont have a problem with those who care about a black person saying cracker. but, you know, white people were not enslaved.
Wait, what? So you think slavery is limited to black people? Read up on history please! Every race has been subject to slavery at some point in time. no, i think nigger derived from slave culture, and cracker not so. so the meaning of nigger has to do with slavery, and cracker does not. make sense? Cracker was used by the African slaves in America as a term for the white men who held the whips, which made a cracking sound. Read a fucking history book before you start arguing these things. which, again, is obviously not referring to that group of people being slaves. in fact you are proving my point, i just explained that it implies a dominant/submissive relationship between whites/blacks, which is why the submissive slur is found to be more insulting...can you not understand that? Your statement was not so. You said it has no roots of any sort in slavery, I explained that it does.
actually you missed the post where i did say that.
my overarching point stands correct, so i dont really mind if i wasnt clear about what i meant (i did know it had roots in slavery, but i clearly said in that same statement that nigger applied to ENSLAVED people which cracker does not apply to)
i think you skipped this post though
"its like if 'baller' was a white racial slur and 'bitch' was a black racial slur, they incite different images -- one as dominant, and one as submissive. i feel like cracker incites a "entitled sheltered white dude" which is insulting, but nigger incites a "sub-human tool" which is much worse. feel free to disagree with any of this."
if you know what an analogy is, while the above is not a particularly good one, it is an obvious one.
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To make it more clear, I find the responses in this thread thinking that racism is no problem much more upsetting than Destiny's behavior. I *KNOW* he probably doesn't mean anything of it, I get the impression that more than a sizable portion of the responses here are hateful racists just trying to defend their behavior. I think they're getting a lot more validation from Destiny's behavior than Destiny intends.
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On May 02 2012 09:18 polyphonyEX wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 02:12 Destiny wrote:On May 02 2012 02:00 intrigue wrote:
guys, i'd like to let you know that i've suffered a bit in my life. that means i know what the world is like. i also never make mistakes, because, as i've mentioned, i've been through some hardship. this qualifies me to make sweeping social critiques that spans way beyond any of our lifetimes. fuck the empty media! Seriously? Who is this faggot? I thought the colored name or w/e meant he was a mod or some shit? How fucking mad are you right now, bro? User was warned for this post A complete show of ignorance and disrespect. Intrigue is female, fyi.
what does her sex have to do with it?
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On May 02 2012 09:18 polyphonyEX wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 02:12 Destiny wrote:On May 02 2012 02:00 intrigue wrote:
guys, i'd like to let you know that i've suffered a bit in my life. that means i know what the world is like. i also never make mistakes, because, as i've mentioned, i've been through some hardship. this qualifies me to make sweeping social critiques that spans way beyond any of our lifetimes. fuck the empty media! Seriously? Who is this faggot? I thought the colored name or w/e meant he was a mod or some shit? How fucking mad are you right now, bro? User was warned for this post A complete show of ignorance and disrespect. Intrigue is female, fyi.
I believe Destiny has already apologised for this comment in the ABL thread, fyi.
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On May 02 2012 09:19 nath wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 09:16 ABagOfFritos wrote:On May 02 2012 09:15 nath wrote:On May 02 2012 09:13 ABagOfFritos wrote:On May 02 2012 09:11 nath wrote:On May 02 2012 09:09 Domus wrote:
well, i dont have a problem with those who care about a black person saying cracker. but, you know, white people were not enslaved.
Wait, what? So you think slavery is limited to black people? Read up on history please! Every race has been subject to slavery at some point in time. no, i think nigger derived from slave culture, and cracker not so. so the meaning of nigger has to do with slavery, and cracker does not. make sense? Cracker was used by the African slaves in America as a term for the white men who held the whips, which made a cracking sound. Read a fucking history book before you start arguing these things. which, again, is obviously not referring to that group of people being slaves. in fact you are proving my point, i just explained that it implies a dominant/submissive relationship between whites/blacks, which is why the submissive slur is found to be more insulting...can you not understand that? Your statement was not so. You said it has no roots of any sort in slavery, I explained that it does. actually you missed the post where i did say that. my overarching point stands correct, so i dont really mind if i wasnt clear about what i meant (i did know it had roots in slavery, but i clearly said in that same statement that nigger applied to ENSLAVED people which cracker does not apply to) i think you skipped this post though "its like if 'baller' was a white racial slur and 'bitch' was a black racial slur, they incite different images -- one as dominant, and one as submissive. i feel like cracker incites a "entitled sheltered white dude" which is insulting, but nigger incites a "sub-human tool" which is much worse. feel free to disagree with any of this." if you know what an analogy is, while the above is not a particularly good one, it is an obvious one.
Still you talk about the words specifically as being racist. A word is only offensive when someone is offended by it. If people would stop being children and get over it, these words wouldn't be problems, but because some people think that their right to be offended means that others do not have the right to offend them, we have these arguments. You seem to like bandaids, though, so stick with them, they seem to be working so well for the world.
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On May 02 2012 09:19 haileris wrote:
To make it more clear, I find the responses in this thread thinking that racism is no problem much more upsetting than Destiny's behavior. I *KNOW* he probably doesn't mean anything of it, I get the impression that more than a sizable portion of the responses here are hateful racists just trying to defend their behavior. I think they're getting a lot more validation from Destiny's behavior than Destiny intends.
I'm glade you can tell by a single post that contains no racism in it what so ever. Do you have gaydar but for racists?
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On May 02 2012 09:18 Exempt. wrote:
TL's good at warning random posters -- but none of us make a difference to Esports. Obviously that's all they can do until upper-level decisions are made but those are the fucking important ones.
Deal with destiny, stop letting him slide im tired of double standard bullshit. I will go to sponsors if something isnt done within a week.
you will just hurt the community by talking to sponsors. If anyone is going to complain about a certain player go talk to the damn team, talking to the sponsor just ruins everything for everyone involved in this scene not just the person you want to complain about.
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On May 02 2012 09:16 ABagOfFritos wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 09:15 nath wrote:On May 02 2012 09:13 ABagOfFritos wrote:On May 02 2012 09:11 nath wrote:On May 02 2012 09:09 Domus wrote:
well, i dont have a problem with those who care about a black person saying cracker. but, you know, white people were not enslaved.
Wait, what? So you think slavery is limited to black people? Read up on history please! Every race has been subject to slavery at some point in time. no, i think nigger derived from slave culture, and cracker not so. so the meaning of nigger has to do with slavery, and cracker does not. make sense? Cracker was used by the African slaves in America as a term for the white men who held the whips, which made a cracking sound. Read a fucking history book before you start arguing these things. which, again, is obviously not referring to that group of people being slaves. in fact you are proving my point, i just explained that it implies a dominant/submissive relationship between whites/blacks, which is why the submissive slur is found to be more insulting...can you not understand that? Your statement was not so. You said it has no roots of any sort in slavery, I explained that it does.
You are being intentionally obtuse. White people weren't fucking oppressed or enslaved during american-slavery and therefor the term cracker doesn't even come close to nigger. The only relationship the two have is the oppressed and the oppressors. If you honestly think those two are even mildly equivalent then you are the one who needs to take a closer look at their history book.
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