On May 02 2012 07:12 IshinShishi wrote: Gook is extremely offensive, I wouldn't expect anything less than him being unfeatured.
i expect that you will not get what you are expecting.
do we REALLY have to do this every time someone pisses off someone? OHHHHH NOOOO the guy known for bm said something mean to me
next we will be making threads when idra doesnt gg before leaving a game. Lets all chill out and relax, we all know that destiny stream is a little bit crazy but i know thats why i watch.
Are you seriously incapable of drawing a distinction between 'bad manner', the equivalent of not fucking GG'ing in a stupid video game, and using racist fucking words. How the fuck do you even breathe
What the difference between the very thing you just said and using ' racist fucking word'.
It's only on the internet that you can see people with such colorful vocabulary being offended by the term 'gook' even when the one who says the term isn't said to not be a racist by the one making the accusation.
because curses aren't the same as slurs. slurs are meant to offend specific groups of people, they make them to be less than.
and it's not always about actually being racist. there is negativity in just using racist language. ditto calling people "faggot". you might support gay marriage! but calling people "faggot" in a way that is meant to make them feel bad is homophobic language, it's bad.
On May 02 2012 07:22 SkelA wrote: I dont get it why any types of insults are fine as long as they are not racial like nigger, gook or w/e ?
Of course it is bad if the prevalent opinion of some race is that they are inferior to other races but using a slang word like "gook" or "nigger" don't necessarily contain anything like that. I have heared these words being used many times and I just think of them as insults like any other, so I don't really see the problem with using them.
the language itself carries that meaning. words have meaning. if he doesn't mean to SOUND racist, he should use non racist language.
I can't tell you what destiny actually thinks. I can tell you that when he uses these words he SOUNDS like a racist and a hompohobe.
I disagree, I don't think many people still use these insults on the internet in that racial degrading or w/e meaning so it's fine. Most people understand that it is not meant as an insult to any race / gender / sexual preference, so the problem of it being used in that way vanishes. If you want to take a word a certain way and be offended by something that is clearly not meant to be taken that way go ahead, but I don't see why I and others should care.
On May 02 2012 07:12 IshinShishi wrote: Gook is extremely offensive, I wouldn't expect anything less than him being unfeatured.
i expect that you will not get what you are expecting.
do we REALLY have to do this every time someone pisses off someone? OHHHHH NOOOO the guy known for bm said something mean to me
next we will be making threads when idra doesnt gg before leaving a game. Lets all chill out and relax, we all know that destiny stream is a little bit crazy but i know thats why i watch.
Are you seriously incapable of drawing a distinction between 'bad manner', the equivalent of not fucking GG'ing in a stupid video game, and using racist fucking words. How the fuck do you even breathe
From context it doesn't even seem like the OP was Korean, the OP just bm'd Destiny and got rage in return.
There's a huge difference between using slurs and being a racist.
No. There isn't. If you're using racist slurs against people you are a fucking racist. How much of this fucking thread is white people making arguments about intent as though a person of color, or minority, or Korean GIVES A FUCK how he meant it, why is everyone falling over themselves to view this only from the perspective of a white male (it is because the vast majority of you are white males and this the only goddamn thing you can relate to, you are so broken you cannot even fathom people having different lives or experiences than the one you've had). Even if Steven called someone who wasn't a korean that word that doesn't make it a not racist word and it doesn't mean he wasn't clearly using it in a bigoted way.
Yes, a great number of people care a great deal about intent. Intent is what makes words meaningful in the first place, I have no idea where you get off thinking vocabulary has some sort of objective force all its own.
You are a bigot who just referred to every white male in this thread as a "broken" person who "cannot even fathom people...", you need to seriously re-evaluate your own life and examine the unjustified hatred you clearly feel against an ethnicity you may or may not belong to.
On May 02 2012 07:29 MayorITC wrote: So I'm just curious, but could a TL administrator/moderator clear something up for the community. Do you guys condone Destiny's behavior? I, and I'm sure many others as well, are extremely curious about TL's stance on this issue. Because I'm getting a lot of mixed messages based on past and current examples.
Why should they? They are not involved in this. No need for the pope to comment either.
How are they not involved?
One of the major disagreements is that Destiny is still a featured streamer on TL - a disagreement happening because past standards set by the TL staff are not being applied to Destiny's case. More importantly, why are you answering on behalf of the TL staff?
No need for the pope or randoms to comment either. Fixed for just for you.
On May 02 2012 07:36 Bananafish wrote: Another intent argument. It's funny when ya'll say things like "we know" because it's this weird agreement amongst a lot of the white people here about what they agree racism is. It's not up to the people offended (or god forbid actual fucking people of color) to decide what offends them and who is a racist, we need all the whites to tell everyone what racism really is!
Racism has a pretty clear definition, if you'd like I can give you a dictionary's take on it. I don't know how this "white racists want to keep us down" trend started, but it has nothing to do with the fact that Destiny is unlikely to seriously harbor ill-will or feelings of superiority against those of another race. He insults everyone, regardless of race, that is not the mark of a racist.
Even though some of these words are used differently now in some cases, it doesn't mean that they aren't used for hate anymore.
Here's the thing. They only have meaning if you let them have meaning. So don't let them have meaning, and don't attract it by making a thread about it.
sorry I can't read this post I'm not letting any of these words have meaning
I guess that means they don't and you're just posting gibberish. weird strategy.
Don't know why you have to get childish about it. The topic of discussion is racial slurs; no where did I say anything about words in general.
On May 02 2012 05:27 Arghmyliver wrote: People actually think Destiny is a bigot?
Are you guys serious?
Here are some bigots -
Adolf Hitler Saddam Hussein Nathan Bedford Forrest
Destiny is not a bigot.
He's not as bad as hitler so he is not a bigot...? Some of the arguments here are so bad trying to defend Destiny. Maybe he isn't the worst out there but he is spewing out hateful things. He's not going to incite a cultural revolution and change race relations by acting like a angsty teenager on the internet. So if your not offended good for you. What does matter is what people see looking in. If your some random guy off the street and he sees a huge figure in SC2 acting out like a teenager and spewing shit out of his mouth he will not stick around. Or the CEOs who see this and don't want to risk their money on the scene or the mom's out there.
This kind of stuff is nothing new from Destiny. He is pretty much the perfect stereotypical angry nerd who talks tons of shit from behind the safety of his keyboard. I guess you can't blame him he's not even anything special he hasn't even won any big tournaments or even gotten far in one if IIRC. He's just famous for being a "online bad boy" even though that is probably the biggest oxymoron ever.... Even his shitty attempts at trolling the thread are childish LOLOLOL BUTTHURT FORM XDDDDD.
Like someone posted before if a serious reporter happened to report on the drama going on here sponsorship will evaporate. Razor/Steelseries/Intel/AMD and other PC gaming companies will stick around somewhat because this is their market so obviously they will want to get out there but LoL has a way bigger player base so more people see the ad's and stupid shit like this does not happen and drag the community through the mud every 2 weeks. What is keeping these companies around? Is Sc2 even that special? Will it last aslong as BW? Really big companies such as Coke/Pepsi won't want to get engaged in the market when it is a big risk. It makes every one look bad and allowing shit like this is what is keeping SC2 from ever going mainstream.
You can be as much of an asshole as you want if your a shitty player and can only get views by bm but why drag racial slurs into it is what I don't understand.
On May 02 2012 00:56 SCampbell wrote: Here is my letter to Razer (support-us@razersupport.com) regarding Destiny's current and past use of racial slurs. I encourage everyone else to submit letters of a similar theme.
Tolerating racism allows it to grow and foster. By propagating racism, Destiny does far more harm than good.
Let's make racism an intolerable offence within the community - far more sponsors will show interest in SC2, if fighting bigotry for its own sake isn't enough.
Hello,
I would like to express my disappointment in Razer's decision to sponsor the Starcraft 2 player Destiny, and his team Quantic, in light of racist comments regularly made on his stream.
Like many players, I see his comments as representative of the type of culture his sponsors wish to foster. I consider continued sponsorship of Destiny, either directly or through his team Quantic, as tacit approval by Razer of the use of racial slurs meant to divide and inflame.
As such, I cannot morally justify continued use and purchase of Razer products.
So seeing one person be racist in your point of view made you not buy razer products because his WHOLE team is sponsered by razer? Not only when emailing razer you can hurt destiny, but actually hurt the whole team if they lose their sponsership, while naniwa and sase, etc. are getting involved in this because of the emails to the sponsers
On May 02 2012 07:36 Bananafish wrote: Another intent argument. It's funny when ya'll say things like "we know" because it's this weird agreement amongst a lot of the white people here about what they agree racism is. It's not up to the people offended (or god forbid actual fucking people of color) to decide what offends them and who is a racist, we need all the whites to tell everyone what racism really is!
Racism has a pretty clear definition, if you'd like I can give you a dictionary's take on it. I don't know how this "white racists want to keep us down" trend started, but it has nothing to do with the fact that Destiny is unlikely to seriously harbor ill-will or feelings of superiority against those of another race. He insults everyone, regardless of race, that is not the mark of a racist.
This is some stupid teenaged "I'm not a racist, I hate everyone" bullshit and using it to excuse straight up bigotry is one of the dumbest things I've read in a while
On May 02 2012 07:12 IshinShishi wrote: Gook is extremely offensive, I wouldn't expect anything less than him being unfeatured.
i expect that you will not get what you are expecting.
do we REALLY have to do this every time someone pisses off someone? OHHHHH NOOOO the guy known for bm said something mean to me
next we will be making threads when idra doesnt gg before leaving a game. Lets all chill out and relax, we all know that destiny stream is a little bit crazy but i know thats why i watch.
Are you seriously incapable of drawing a distinction between 'bad manner', the equivalent of not fucking GG'ing in a stupid video game, and using racist fucking words. How the fuck do you even breathe
From context it doesn't even seem like the OP was Korean, the OP just bm'd Destiny and got rage in return.
There's a huge difference between using slurs and being a racist.
using a racial slur shows that your are at least slightly racist, because you think that being of that race is a negative thing.
What? No it doesn't. It just means you used a bad word. Just like when I call someone dumb I don't mean I think that they are unable to speak or that that would be a negative thing. Or when I call someone a jackass I don't mean they look like a donkey or if they were a donkey it would be a bad thing.
so much stupid. the word dumb is commonly used to refer to someone mental ability, not just the inability to talk, which was its original meaning. and when you call someone dumb you are saying that they are stupid, and that its negative. so your point is completely invalid.
On May 02 2012 07:36 Bananafish wrote: Another intent argument. It's funny when ya'll say things like "we know" because it's this weird agreement amongst a lot of the white people here about what they agree racism is. It's not up to the people offended (or god forbid actual fucking people of color) to decide what offends them and who is a racist, we need all the whites to tell everyone what racism really is!
anyone of any color can tell you what racist language is.
I'm straight and I can tell you that calling people a faggot when you're upset that they beat you is homophobic language.
Okay but do you understand how a person who has lived with racism and who has a lifetime of experiencing subtle and overt racism all their lives might be more of an expert on what is racist than some white nerd who posts on insular internet forums. Or a gay person & etc
okay, if you find any of those people and have them actually say the word gook isn't racist language, I'd love to talk to them.
I have said several times that I am not using this as evidence that destiny is a racist. it IS HOWEVER racist language.
it's really fun apparently to pretend words don't mean anything, but they do. it's also different for a comedian to say something on stage in a joke vs. someone using a term out of anger and hate.
On May 02 2012 07:20 GreenFaction wrote: I disagree with the argument, prevalent in this thread, that it is Destiny's right to use racist language. No one has the right to use racist language. We need to realize a distinction between political rights moral rights. I think it is pretty uncontroversial that destiny has a political right to use racist language, up to a point (after a certain point, this right can be forfeit because of laws against assault and slander, etc.). I'm not interested in arguing about his political rights.
What I think is clear is that he has no moral right, no one has a moral right, to use racist language. And this is even independent of whether it is being directed at a particular individual or not. The language is morally destructive regardless; its use is even destructive to destiny himself. It's not right, we all know it's not right. So once we disambiguate the political/moral issues, I think it's pretty obvious that the issue here has nothing at all to do with free speech. No one has a moral right to express themselves in racist language.
Are you prepared to debate Destiny on this if he asked you? Morality and politics are both very deep philosophical topics that go beyond what you think is the absolute immutable truth.
I'm not sure what you mean. Can I not make philosophical claims? If not me, who can? Let me be clear: I am not arguing the proposition "no one has a right to express themselves in racist language" is true in virtue of my saying it, I am arguing it is true simpliciter. Obviously the topics themselves "go beyond" what I think, since the topics include thousands of opinions, scholarly publications, philosophers, possible opinions, and whatever else it takes to be a "topic".
If you think my claim is wrong, then I would be interested to hear your counterargument, and maybe you can convince me destiny has a moral right to use racist language. The reason I posted my original argument is because I suspect that much of the attempts to justify destiny's behavior depend on the equivocation I disambiguated between political and moral rights. I would be willing to bet destiny's own rationalizations of his behavior involve a similar confusion.
You're posting in a thread about what Destiny does, how he defends his actions and so on. You're among hundreds of people who all have differing opinions, and dictating "what we can all agree on", as well as implicitly taking certain definitions for things like "moral right." At the end of the day, Destiny himself has already addressed many of the arguments against him (including your original one), but the goal seems to be to debate everyone but Destiny in this thread (because it's a witch-hunt)...and to do it using the same level of argument found in presidential debates on TV that have been known to cause brain cancer.
I'm not obligated to provide a counterargument to yours, but I can still say that you're not helping my mental image of gamers as pseudo-intellectual blowhards.
Even though some of these words are used differently now in some cases, it doesn't mean that they aren't used for hate anymore.
Here's the thing. They only have meaning if you let them have meaning. So don't let them have meaning, and don't attract it by making a thread about it.
sorry I can't read this post I'm not letting any of these words have meaning
I guess that means they don't and you're just posting gibberish. weird strategy.
Don't know why you have to get childish about it. The topic of discussion is racial slurs; no where did I say anything about words in general.
"they only have meaning if you give them meaning"
you wanted me to only apply that to racial slurs? that seems really convenient don't you think?
words have socially accepted meaning (unless you want to say they don't, at all). you live in a society. deal with it.
ESPECIALLY deal with it when you earn money off of people watching you play starcraft in this society. folks are gonna react, folks are gonna believe things based off the language you choose to use. if you don't want them to say "hey destiny sure SOUNDS like a racist" maybe... don't use racial slurs?
On May 02 2012 07:34 Jebotres wrote: Hes so racist that a nigga like Deebo considers him a friend right?
Is the OP even asian? Did he blind skillshot an asian with ladder rage? And why is this shit not cool, but Idra wishing death upon people is totally fine? What the fuck.
Why does this community get so butthurt over silly shit like this?
Considering his ID is "Korea Republic" spelled out in Alphabet and he can type Korean characters, it seems pretty likely. However, the OP will have to confirm that himself. In any case, I would say Destiny is familiar enough with Korean to have recognized that himself considering he's watched enough Korean replays and has even lived there for a while.
White people are so privileged and allowed so many things that when you tell them "Please don't use this word, it's fucking atrocious and bigoted and hurts a lot" they go into full defensive mode. They're so blinded by their white privilege they cannot even imagine something being off limits or maybe putting the slightest amount of effort into watching their language ( MY FREE SPEECH!!@!!)
On May 02 2012 07:43 ClairvoyanceSC2 wrote: So seeing one person be racist in your point of view made you not buy razer products because his WHOLE team is sponsered by razer? Not only when emailing razer you can hurt destiny, but actually hurt the whole team if they lose their sponsership, while naniwa and sase, etc. are getting involved in this because of the emails to the sponsers
its not the one sending an e-mail to razer that is hurting e-sports... The one causing the issue is Destiny and Quantic for letting him be how he is and leaving him in their team and thus effecting other Progamers indirectly.
I see it very often that i.e.h Football clubs put quite some penalties on a player that acts in a way that can hurt the TEAM. Same here, if Quantic loses sponsor, because of this it is their fault of keeping destiny in their team / not keeping him in check when he is in public.
On May 02 2012 07:47 Bananafish wrote: White people are so privileged and allowed so many things that when you tell them "Please don't use this word, it's fucking atrocious and bigoted and hurts a lot" they go into full defensive mode. They're so blinded by their white privilege they cannot even imagine something being off limits or maybe putting the slightest amount of effort into watching their language ( MY FREE SPEECH!!@!!)
EPT
