|
On May 01 2012 03:48 Daozzt wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2012 03:37 XaI)CyRiC wrote:On May 01 2012 03:27 rei wrote:
how do you penalize flopping? review the foul call and if the reaction is exaggerated then call a technical foul on the guy flopping? They players would just adapt by taking some acting lessons and make it harder to tell. It would surely weed out the players who can't act. I don't think it would be unreasonable to penalize the more obvious flops either during games or through reviews after games. You're right that there would still be some borderline or difficult to determine situations, but that's true of a lot of calls made in the NBA right involving regular and technical fouls. Would there be some situations where players would still get away with flopping? Sure. Would there be some situations where a player would be penalized for flopping when they weren't actually flopping? Probably. However, I firmly believe that it'd be a net gain because players would at least have to think twice before flopping and we'd see a lot less flopping in general because most players are not going to be skilled enough to fool refs and post-game reviews. Right now, there is essentially no penalty for flopping. Imposing some penalty, such as a technical foul, fines, suspensions for repeat offenses, etc. would at least create the potential for a player costing himself or his team money or wins by flopping. I don't see any downside to it. Yep, there was a video where JVG went on a rant and came up with the same conclusion. The league has to review the tapes after the games, and hand out a T and a fine (probably 5-10k) to obvious floppers so they are actually discouraged to flop during the game.
Let's give the NBA another way to pick favorite players and teams.
|
On May 01 2012 02:48 slyboogie wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2012 02:28 Jerubaal wrote:On May 01 2012 02:19 slyboogie wrote:On May 01 2012 00:33 Jerubaal wrote:
Wow. I'm watching some clips (no pun intended) from the Memphis-LA game and the Clippers are a team full of floppers. The Spurs fan whines without any sense of irony. You're right, I should ignore a whole game of players falling over like bags of broccoli because this one time I saw Manu get a call. I am right. Shut up about officiating stuff, it's a waste of time. If it hurts your well tuned sense of competitive fairness so much, you shouldn't watch the NBA. the game will never be perfectly officiated and players have always gamed the refs. I don't care that Manu does it. I don't care. I don't see why every time the playoffs one around, a trillion randoms inundate this thread with whining. It's like they've never seen a basketball game. Sorry. Nothing personal, you're fine. Just venting.
I'm not too concerned about it. I looked at the stats and the Clippers only had a few more FTs and a few less PFs so it probably didn't matter much.
I'm just commenting on what I saw from some clips.
|
On May 01 2012 03:51 justinpal wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2012 03:48 Daozzt wrote:On May 01 2012 03:37 XaI)CyRiC wrote:On May 01 2012 03:27 rei wrote:
how do you penalize flopping? review the foul call and if the reaction is exaggerated then call a technical foul on the guy flopping? They players would just adapt by taking some acting lessons and make it harder to tell. It would surely weed out the players who can't act. I don't think it would be unreasonable to penalize the more obvious flops either during games or through reviews after games. You're right that there would still be some borderline or difficult to determine situations, but that's true of a lot of calls made in the NBA right involving regular and technical fouls. Would there be some situations where players would still get away with flopping? Sure. Would there be some situations where a player would be penalized for flopping when they weren't actually flopping? Probably. However, I firmly believe that it'd be a net gain because players would at least have to think twice before flopping and we'd see a lot less flopping in general because most players are not going to be skilled enough to fool refs and post-game reviews. Right now, there is essentially no penalty for flopping. Imposing some penalty, such as a technical foul, fines, suspensions for repeat offenses, etc. would at least create the potential for a player costing himself or his team money or wins by flopping. I don't see any downside to it. Yep, there was a video where JVG went on a rant and came up with the same conclusion. The league has to review the tapes after the games, and hand out a T and a fine (probably 5-10k) to obvious floppers so they are actually discouraged to flop during the game. Let's give the NBA another way to pick favorite players and teams.
Better than the disgusting flopping that commonly occurs in every game now. The thing is now they can't be blatantly biased because everyone has access to these video replays and they have time to analyze them, so there's more pressure on the NBA to actually make the right decisions.
|
On May 01 2012 03:00 XaI)CyRiC wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2012 02:28 Jerubaal wrote:On May 01 2012 02:19 slyboogie wrote:On May 01 2012 00:33 Jerubaal wrote:
Wow. I'm watching some clips (no pun intended) from the Memphis-LA game and the Clippers are a team full of floppers. The Spurs fan whines without any sense of irony. You're right, I should ignore a whole game of players falling over like bags of broccoli because this one time I saw Manu get a call. It's not just the Clippers, it's everyone. Also, it's a lot more than just one time that Manu got a call for flopping. Personally, as much as I dislike flopping, I can't blame the players for utilizing it as long as it works for them. Blame the league and the refs for rewarding flopping and not penalizing it. The NBA is filled with competitors who want to win, and will do whatever it takes to do so. It's up to the league to change it so that flopping doesn't provide players with a competitive advantage as it does now.
I agree with this, and I'm going to add something else.
Taking charges is GOOD DEFENSE. The problem is not just flopping, it is the entire way refs call defense. If you don't flop, a charge is not called. In fact, it is more likely that you will be called for blocking/handcheck/illegal use of hands. If you jump to contest a shot, any contact is a no-call at best and a defensive foul 50%+ of the time. "Drawing Fouls" is a celebrated skill for some reason, when in reality is is exploiting poor officiating, guys like Pierce and Lebron, great players anyway, increase their defensive and offensive prowess by playing the officials. Those two probably are awarded 2-4 more FTs per game than they deserve, and props to them for that.
|
ProTip for EU NBA Fans!
You can buy the League Pass Playoffs for 31.99USD (instead of 53€) if you use a Hungary Proxy and the "NBAPLAYOFFS" promo code. Just tried it and it worked. So 24.94€ instead of 53€ ...yehaaa :D
|
United States4471 Posts
On May 01 2012 04:27 Daozzt wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2012 03:51 justinpal wrote:On May 01 2012 03:48 Daozzt wrote:On May 01 2012 03:37 XaI)CyRiC wrote:On May 01 2012 03:27 rei wrote:
how do you penalize flopping? review the foul call and if the reaction is exaggerated then call a technical foul on the guy flopping? They players would just adapt by taking some acting lessons and make it harder to tell. It would surely weed out the players who can't act. I don't think it would be unreasonable to penalize the more obvious flops either during games or through reviews after games. You're right that there would still be some borderline or difficult to determine situations, but that's true of a lot of calls made in the NBA right involving regular and technical fouls. Would there be some situations where players would still get away with flopping? Sure. Would there be some situations where a player would be penalized for flopping when they weren't actually flopping? Probably. However, I firmly believe that it'd be a net gain because players would at least have to think twice before flopping and we'd see a lot less flopping in general because most players are not going to be skilled enough to fool refs and post-game reviews. Right now, there is essentially no penalty for flopping. Imposing some penalty, such as a technical foul, fines, suspensions for repeat offenses, etc. would at least create the potential for a player costing himself or his team money or wins by flopping. I don't see any downside to it. Yep, there was a video where JVG went on a rant and came up with the same conclusion. The league has to review the tapes after the games, and hand out a T and a fine (probably 5-10k) to obvious floppers so they are actually discouraged to flop during the game. Let's give the NBA another way to pick favorite players and teams. Better than the disgusting flopping that commonly occurs in every game now. The thing is now they can't be blatantly biased because everyone has access to these video replays and they have time to analyze them, so there's more pressure on the NBA to actually make the right decisions.
Agreed. Due to the ease of access to video footage of plays to everyone, and not just the NBA, would help keep the league in check with regards to any significant bias. Keep in mind that, in addition to fans, opposing teams' staffs will also serve to balance each other, i.e. if the league lets a Lebron flop slide due to bias, the opposing team will easily be able to submit video proof to contest. Teams already do it now as a form of protest and way to lobby to officials, so it'd be no different.
|
United States4471 Posts
On May 01 2012 04:28 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2012 03:00 XaI)CyRiC wrote:On May 01 2012 02:28 Jerubaal wrote:On May 01 2012 02:19 slyboogie wrote:On May 01 2012 00:33 Jerubaal wrote:
Wow. I'm watching some clips (no pun intended) from the Memphis-LA game and the Clippers are a team full of floppers. The Spurs fan whines without any sense of irony. You're right, I should ignore a whole game of players falling over like bags of broccoli because this one time I saw Manu get a call. It's not just the Clippers, it's everyone. Also, it's a lot more than just one time that Manu got a call for flopping. Personally, as much as I dislike flopping, I can't blame the players for utilizing it as long as it works for them. Blame the league and the refs for rewarding flopping and not penalizing it. The NBA is filled with competitors who want to win, and will do whatever it takes to do so. It's up to the league to change it so that flopping doesn't provide players with a competitive advantage as it does now. I agree with this, and I'm going to add something else. Taking charges is GOOD DEFENSE. The problem is not just flopping, it is the entire way refs call defense. If you don't flop, a charge is not called. In fact, it is more likely that you will be called for blocking/handcheck/illegal use of hands. If you jump to contest a shot, any contact is a no-call at best and a defensive foul 50%+ of the time. "Drawing Fouls" is a celebrated skill for some reason, when in reality is is exploiting poor officiating, guys like Pierce and Lebron, great players anyway, increase their defensive and offensive prowess by playing the officials. Those two probably are awarded 2-4 more FTs per game than they deserve, and props to them for that.
Agree with this too. It's kind of sad that NBA players have to resort to taking charges to play defense these days due to the no-touch rules that sends the offensive player to the line more often than not. I think the NBA needs to consider making some adjustments as to how they call contact between offensive and defensive players to allow defenders to actually defend. These days, you see offensive players just throwing themselves into defenders with no attempt at actually scoring a basket in order to get an easy trip to the line. It's so frustrating to see defenders get called for fouls when the contact is initiated almost entirely by the offensive player.
Until that happens, penalizing flopping should help a bit. We'd hopefully see less of players overreacting to minor contact and/or throwing their heads back and yelling to get fouls due to the potential technical fouls/fines/etc., and more actual attempts to convert field goals.
|
On May 01 2012 05:40 XaI)CyRiC wrote:
These days, you see offensive players just throwing themselves into defenders with no attempt at actually scoring a basket in order to get an easy trip to the line. It's so frustrating to see defenders get called for fouls when the contact is initiated almost entirely by the offensive player.
Ya fucking Tony Parker, I used to hate him for abusing that, but recently he stop doing that as much any more.
Oh and fucking Iverson does that shit too, and they would call that as "being fearless" i call it abusive bullshit, and when the ref doesn't give them the call they would whine kicking and screaming. sick of this shit, play like a man.
Oh wait forgot fucking Ginobli, he's the master at this.
|
On May 01 2012 05:48 rei wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2012 05:40 XaI)CyRiC wrote:
These days, you see offensive players just throwing themselves into defenders with no attempt at actually scoring a basket in order to get an easy trip to the line. It's so frustrating to see defenders get called for fouls when the contact is initiated almost entirely by the offensive player.
Ya fucking Tony Parker, I used to hate him for abusing that, but recently he stop doing that as much any more. Oh and fucking Iverson does that shit too, and they would call that as "being fearless" i call it abusive bullshit, and when the ref doesn't give them the call they would whine kicking and screaming. sick of this shit, play like a man. Oh wait forgot fucking Ginobli, he's the master at this.
Iverson and Wade are the two worst players I've ever seen in this regard. Which is surprising, considering neither player has long hair. Normally, longer haired players like Varejao and Scola are better at this flopping thing.
To illustrate the blatant stupidity of NBA referees, I bring up Shaq. Smaller players would routinely charge him but since he was 350 lbs (yeah, right, it's probably a lot more than that), he would always get called for blocking fouls. Eventually, Shaq decided to start flopping as well. And what do you know, referees finally started to call charging fouls on the players barreling into Shaq. Because, clearly, a 5-10, 150 lbs pint-sized point guard can send Shaq flying on a charge. Ladies and gentlemen, your NBA referees.
|
On May 01 2012 05:35 XaI)CyRiC wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2012 04:27 Daozzt wrote:On May 01 2012 03:51 justinpal wrote:On May 01 2012 03:48 Daozzt wrote:On May 01 2012 03:37 XaI)CyRiC wrote:On May 01 2012 03:27 rei wrote:
how do you penalize flopping? review the foul call and if the reaction is exaggerated then call a technical foul on the guy flopping? They players would just adapt by taking some acting lessons and make it harder to tell. It would surely weed out the players who can't act. I don't think it would be unreasonable to penalize the more obvious flops either during games or through reviews after games. You're right that there would still be some borderline or difficult to determine situations, but that's true of a lot of calls made in the NBA right involving regular and technical fouls. Would there be some situations where players would still get away with flopping? Sure. Would there be some situations where a player would be penalized for flopping when they weren't actually flopping? Probably. However, I firmly believe that it'd be a net gain because players would at least have to think twice before flopping and we'd see a lot less flopping in general because most players are not going to be skilled enough to fool refs and post-game reviews. Right now, there is essentially no penalty for flopping. Imposing some penalty, such as a technical foul, fines, suspensions for repeat offenses, etc. would at least create the potential for a player costing himself or his team money or wins by flopping. I don't see any downside to it. Yep, there was a video where JVG went on a rant and came up with the same conclusion. The league has to review the tapes after the games, and hand out a T and a fine (probably 5-10k) to obvious floppers so they are actually discouraged to flop during the game. Let's give the NBA another way to pick favorite players and teams. Better than the disgusting flopping that commonly occurs in every game now. The thing is now they can't be blatantly biased because everyone has access to these video replays and they have time to analyze them, so there's more pressure on the NBA to actually make the right decisions. Agreed. Due to the ease of access to video footage of plays to everyone, and not just the NBA, would help keep the league in check with regards to any significant bias. Keep in mind that, in addition to fans, opposing teams' staffs will also serve to balance each other, i.e. if the league lets a Lebron flop slide due to bias, the opposing team will easily be able to submit video proof to contest. Teams already do it now as a form of protest and way to lobby to officials, so it'd be no different.
Meh, I still think the best idea would be to make the officials a 3rd-party entity, outside of the NBA. Only then can bias really not be a question. By having officials having to report Stern and the NBA though, credibility can still be in question.
|
I'm pretty sure maggette is the best in the league in generating fake contact, him and k-mart.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/fAjXK.jpg)
WORK DAMN YOU
Personally, im for a fourth ref upstairs with video reviews to check all the possible 3s that may be 2's, for reviewing tech fouls (have a floor mic), and for handing out techs for flopping.
Plus they can get calls like goal tending, or possession arrows as close to correct as possible every time.
|
United States4471 Posts
On May 01 2012 06:20 MassHysteria wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2012 05:35 XaI)CyRiC wrote:On May 01 2012 04:27 Daozzt wrote:On May 01 2012 03:51 justinpal wrote:On May 01 2012 03:48 Daozzt wrote:On May 01 2012 03:37 XaI)CyRiC wrote:On May 01 2012 03:27 rei wrote:
how do you penalize flopping? review the foul call and if the reaction is exaggerated then call a technical foul on the guy flopping? They players would just adapt by taking some acting lessons and make it harder to tell. It would surely weed out the players who can't act. I don't think it would be unreasonable to penalize the more obvious flops either during games or through reviews after games. You're right that there would still be some borderline or difficult to determine situations, but that's true of a lot of calls made in the NBA right involving regular and technical fouls. Would there be some situations where players would still get away with flopping? Sure. Would there be some situations where a player would be penalized for flopping when they weren't actually flopping? Probably. However, I firmly believe that it'd be a net gain because players would at least have to think twice before flopping and we'd see a lot less flopping in general because most players are not going to be skilled enough to fool refs and post-game reviews. Right now, there is essentially no penalty for flopping. Imposing some penalty, such as a technical foul, fines, suspensions for repeat offenses, etc. would at least create the potential for a player costing himself or his team money or wins by flopping. I don't see any downside to it. Yep, there was a video where JVG went on a rant and came up with the same conclusion. The league has to review the tapes after the games, and hand out a T and a fine (probably 5-10k) to obvious floppers so they are actually discouraged to flop during the game. Let's give the NBA another way to pick favorite players and teams. Better than the disgusting flopping that commonly occurs in every game now. The thing is now they can't be blatantly biased because everyone has access to these video replays and they have time to analyze them, so there's more pressure on the NBA to actually make the right decisions. Agreed. Due to the ease of access to video footage of plays to everyone, and not just the NBA, would help keep the league in check with regards to any significant bias. Keep in mind that, in addition to fans, opposing teams' staffs will also serve to balance each other, i.e. if the league lets a Lebron flop slide due to bias, the opposing team will easily be able to submit video proof to contest. Teams already do it now as a form of protest and way to lobby to officials, so it'd be no different. Meh, I still think the best idea would be to make the officials a 3rd-party entity, outside of the NBA. Only then can bias really not be a question. By having officials having to report Stern and the NBA though, credibility can still be in question.
How would that really change anything though? Stern and the NBA would still have the refs by their balls due to being their sole employer. I don't think being independent would give them any leverage, and they'd still "answer to" Stern and the NBA and have all the incentive in the world to keep them happy.
|
On May 01 2012 06:25 XaI)CyRiC wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2012 06:20 MassHysteria wrote:On May 01 2012 05:35 XaI)CyRiC wrote:On May 01 2012 04:27 Daozzt wrote:On May 01 2012 03:51 justinpal wrote:On May 01 2012 03:48 Daozzt wrote:On May 01 2012 03:37 XaI)CyRiC wrote:On May 01 2012 03:27 rei wrote:
how do you penalize flopping? review the foul call and if the reaction is exaggerated then call a technical foul on the guy flopping? They players would just adapt by taking some acting lessons and make it harder to tell. It would surely weed out the players who can't act. I don't think it would be unreasonable to penalize the more obvious flops either during games or through reviews after games. You're right that there would still be some borderline or difficult to determine situations, but that's true of a lot of calls made in the NBA right involving regular and technical fouls. Would there be some situations where players would still get away with flopping? Sure. Would there be some situations where a player would be penalized for flopping when they weren't actually flopping? Probably. However, I firmly believe that it'd be a net gain because players would at least have to think twice before flopping and we'd see a lot less flopping in general because most players are not going to be skilled enough to fool refs and post-game reviews. Right now, there is essentially no penalty for flopping. Imposing some penalty, such as a technical foul, fines, suspensions for repeat offenses, etc. would at least create the potential for a player costing himself or his team money or wins by flopping. I don't see any downside to it. Yep, there was a video where JVG went on a rant and came up with the same conclusion. The league has to review the tapes after the games, and hand out a T and a fine (probably 5-10k) to obvious floppers so they are actually discouraged to flop during the game. Let's give the NBA another way to pick favorite players and teams. Better than the disgusting flopping that commonly occurs in every game now. The thing is now they can't be blatantly biased because everyone has access to these video replays and they have time to analyze them, so there's more pressure on the NBA to actually make the right decisions. Agreed. Due to the ease of access to video footage of plays to everyone, and not just the NBA, would help keep the league in check with regards to any significant bias. Keep in mind that, in addition to fans, opposing teams' staffs will also serve to balance each other, i.e. if the league lets a Lebron flop slide due to bias, the opposing team will easily be able to submit video proof to contest. Teams already do it now as a form of protest and way to lobby to officials, so it'd be no different. Meh, I still think the best idea would be to make the officials a 3rd-party entity, outside of the NBA. Only then can bias really not be a question. By having officials having to report Stern and the NBA though, credibility can still be in question. How would that really change anything though? Stern and the NBA would still have the refs by their balls due to being their sole employer. I don't think being independent would give them any leverage, and they'd still "answer to" Stern and the NBA and have all the incentive in the world to keep them happy.
So, then there is no solution is what you are saying? Because making them independent makes more sense in trying to fix the problem of officials managing with an agenda. I agree with all your points above, but that still doesn't address how keeping them as part of the NBA directly makes more sense? The problems you addressed would still be there, and that is why it depends largely on the system they implement once they decide to go this way. Making them a 3rd-party entity is not the end-all solution, it just makes the most sense when establishing credibility. Specially when you want people to stop saying how the refs affect the outcomes of games depending on who the NBA wants to win.
Would the NBA still have the refs by the balls? Yes, but they wouldn't have to "answer to" Stern as much as they have to answer to the general public. Stern would have no direct control over the referees, but rather have to work with the chosen representatives at a more transparent level. The NBA would still be their sole employer but why do union employees form a union in the first place? A lot of the same reasons would still apply here even though we aren't talking about a union(I know it's different in the sense that unions are primarily to take care of the employees' rights, yet in this case it is mainly for the integrity of the game, but you catch my drift). If the NBA wants to "fire" these officials, you can bet they would have a major media shit-storm as to why and who they would use to replace them. The officials wouldn't have leverage, but they would definitely have more to work with than they do now.
There would still be a lot of stuff to fix still obviously, I just like the idea of it so far compared to other solutions being thrown out.
edit: lol @ the Rose playoff jersey!
|
Streams anyone? Firstrow getting hammered.
|
On May 01 2012 05:40 XaI)CyRiC wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2012 04:28 cLutZ wrote:On May 01 2012 03:00 XaI)CyRiC wrote:On May 01 2012 02:28 Jerubaal wrote:On May 01 2012 02:19 slyboogie wrote:On May 01 2012 00:33 Jerubaal wrote:
Wow. I'm watching some clips (no pun intended) from the Memphis-LA game and the Clippers are a team full of floppers. The Spurs fan whines without any sense of irony. You're right, I should ignore a whole game of players falling over like bags of broccoli because this one time I saw Manu get a call. It's not just the Clippers, it's everyone. Also, it's a lot more than just one time that Manu got a call for flopping. Personally, as much as I dislike flopping, I can't blame the players for utilizing it as long as it works for them. Blame the league and the refs for rewarding flopping and not penalizing it. The NBA is filled with competitors who want to win, and will do whatever it takes to do so. It's up to the league to change it so that flopping doesn't provide players with a competitive advantage as it does now. I agree with this, and I'm going to add something else. Taking charges is GOOD DEFENSE. The problem is not just flopping, it is the entire way refs call defense. If you don't flop, a charge is not called. In fact, it is more likely that you will be called for blocking/handcheck/illegal use of hands. If you jump to contest a shot, any contact is a no-call at best and a defensive foul 50%+ of the time. "Drawing Fouls" is a celebrated skill for some reason, when in reality is is exploiting poor officiating, guys like Pierce and Lebron, great players anyway, increase their defensive and offensive prowess by playing the officials. Those two probably are awarded 2-4 more FTs per game than they deserve, and props to them for that. These days, you see offensive players just throwing themselves into defenders with no attempt at actually scoring a basket in order to get an easy trip to the line. It's so frustrating to see defenders get called for fouls when the contact is initiated almost entirely by the offensive player.
Aren't they not supposed to call those anymore?
|
Streams anyone? Firstrow getting hammered.
i think firstrow might be dead unfortunately...
just google "sports streaming" thats what i do now that firstrow appears to be down and out. you'll always find a site that works and doesnt try to put 25235 viruses and shit on your computer on the first page of results somewhere
|
Here we go  Let's go HEAT! Think its going to be a great game today Carmelo looking sharp
|
Are they gonna let them play tonight?
|
On May 01 2012 08:16 justinpal wrote:
Are they gonna let them play tonight?
I hope so. I love competitive ball
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
