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The subject of this thread is not a license to roll out your inaccurate, misinformed, poorly conceived, tired, and downright offensive theories about race relations. |
Seriously some people just do not know how to argue for something. Maybe they're just trolling. Who knows
Anyhow, this topic and the position has been split into so many different issues that it's impossible to defend or hate on him in a concise manner.
In my opinion: Growing up in a "ghetto" part of the city around black people, hearing that word makes me cringe than most of the middle class people on TL. For me personally, the n word with -er and -a is very different. Additionally, I don't think the choice in words or intent is the most important issue. I think it's obvious that it's a distasteful word and a professional shouldn't be using it.
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Why is "nigger" considered out of line when "faggot" and "homo" aren't? He's not directing them at a person who he knows is black (presumably)--they're all just words that have come to have very general negative connotations.
I mean, I don't support orb for saying that kind of stuff (at least IdrA is somewhat creative in his rage), but isn't this kind of a double standard?
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On March 09 2012 12:07 tree.hugger wrote:
Provided that: You want eSports to gain mainstream legitimacy and...
Provided that: Orb is responsible for these comments
Then EG should fire Orb, because these comments are completely unacceptable. In the US, you cannot say things like this without repercussions. Maybe some day it'll lose its bite, but that day is not now. Representatives of our community simply can't make statements like this, whether on ladder, or in a cast it doesn't matter.
"Penalty wise" It should matter if he used that dreadful word in his personal stream or while in middle of EG cast. It should matter if he did what he did while being official employee for EG organization or weeks/months before he got job (and I am sure EG was aware of his general anger issues)... etc.
And btw, this is the internet - not the US.
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On March 09 2012 12:07 tree.hugger wrote:
Provided that: You want eSports to gain mainstream legitimacy and...
Provided that: Orb is responsible for these comments
Then EG should fire Orb, because these comments are completely unacceptable. In the US, you cannot say things like this without repercussions. Maybe some day it'll lose its bite, but that day is not now. Representatives of our community simply can't make statements like this, whether on ladder, or in a cast it doesn't matter.
logic bomb
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On March 09 2012 12:07 tree.hugger wrote:
Provided that: You want eSports to gain mainstream legitimacy and...
Provided that: Orb is responsible for these comments
Then EG should fire Orb, because these comments are completely unacceptable. In the US, you cannot say things like this without repercussions. Maybe some day it'll lose its bite, but that day is not now. Representatives of our community simply can't make statements like this, whether on ladder, or in a cast it doesn't matter.
Yep. We don't want the next CNN story about SC2 to be about the prolific use of racial/homophobic/sexist slurs in the scene. That would kill the scene by turning off the mainstream and turning off sponsors.
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On March 09 2012 12:10 tree.hugger wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 12:08 Kuja wrote:On March 09 2012 12:07 tree.hugger wrote:
Provided that: You want eSports to gain mainstream legitimacy and...
Provided that: Orb is responsible for these comments
Then EG should fire Orb, because these comments are completely unacceptable. In the US, you cannot say things like this without repercussions. Maybe some day it'll lose its bite, but that day is not now. Representatives of our community simply can't make statements like this, whether on ladder, or in a cast it doesn't matter. This isn't the "US" this is the internet. Lol Doesn't work that way. Real life happens sometimes.
Does work that way. This is a internet forum, not a talk-show.
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On March 09 2012 12:08 Kuja wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 12:07 tree.hugger wrote:
Provided that: You want eSports to gain mainstream legitimacy and...
Provided that: Orb is responsible for these comments
Then EG should fire Orb, because these comments are completely unacceptable. In the US, you cannot say things like this without repercussions. Maybe some day it'll lose its bite, but that day is not now. Representatives of our community simply can't make statements like this, whether on ladder, or in a cast it doesn't matter. This isn't the "US" this is the internet. Lol
Orb lives in the US and works for a US company. He should be held to what's acceptable in the country he lives and works in.
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If they don't end up axing him, I hope the next EG shirt says "risk taking dumb nigger!" cuz that's the only way I'd buy another EG product.
Keep dreaming kid.
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On March 09 2012 12:12 synapse wrote:
Why is "nigger" considered out of line when "faggot" and "homo" aren't? He's not directing them at a person who he knows is black (presumably)--they're all just words that have come to have very general negative connotations.
I mean, I don't support orb for saying that kind of stuff (at least IdrA is somewhat creative in his rage), but isn't this kind of a double standard?
They are all out of line. I don't know what world you live in where "faggot" is acceptable to say.
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On March 09 2012 12:08 Kuja wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 12:07 tree.hugger wrote:
Provided that: You want eSports to gain mainstream legitimacy and...
Provided that: Orb is responsible for these comments
Then EG should fire Orb, because these comments are completely unacceptable. In the US, you cannot say things like this without repercussions. Maybe some day it'll lose its bite, but that day is not now. Representatives of our community simply can't make statements like this, whether on ladder, or in a cast it doesn't matter. This isn't the "US" this is the internet. Lol
If the internet doesn't count, I highly encourage you to prove your point and call one of the TL mod's a nigger or faggot.
Let's see what happens!
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Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
On March 09 2012 12:12 Kuja wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 12:10 tree.hugger wrote:On March 09 2012 12:08 Kuja wrote:On March 09 2012 12:07 tree.hugger wrote:
Provided that: You want eSports to gain mainstream legitimacy and...
Provided that: Orb is responsible for these comments
Then EG should fire Orb, because these comments are completely unacceptable. In the US, you cannot say things like this without repercussions. Maybe some day it'll lose its bite, but that day is not now. Representatives of our community simply can't make statements like this, whether on ladder, or in a cast it doesn't matter. This isn't the "US" this is the internet. Lol Doesn't work that way. Real life happens sometimes. Does work that way. This is a internet forum, not a talk-show.
Shockingly, what happens on the internet occasionally has real life repercussions. And it should, because the internet isn't some kind of magical fairly land, but it's a place where actual people interact.
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On March 09 2012 12:12 ePLocust wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 12:08 Kuja wrote:On March 09 2012 12:07 tree.hugger wrote:
Provided that: You want eSports to gain mainstream legitimacy and...
Provided that: Orb is responsible for these comments
Then EG should fire Orb, because these comments are completely unacceptable. In the US, you cannot say things like this without repercussions. Maybe some day it'll lose its bite, but that day is not now. Representatives of our community simply can't make statements like this, whether on ladder, or in a cast it doesn't matter. This isn't the "US" this is the internet. Lol Orb lives in the US and works for a US company. He should be held to what's acceptable in the country he lives and works in. Yes, if it happened in the real world, but it happened through the medium of the internet. So the repercussions are inherently tied to the internet and its culture.
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On March 09 2012 12:08 Kuja wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 12:07 tree.hugger wrote:
Provided that: You want eSports to gain mainstream legitimacy and...
Provided that: Orb is responsible for these comments
Then EG should fire Orb, because these comments are completely unacceptable. In the US, you cannot say things like this without repercussions. Maybe some day it'll lose its bite, but that day is not now. Representatives of our community simply can't make statements like this, whether on ladder, or in a cast it doesn't matter. This isn't the "US" this is the internet. Lol
EG is an American team, its sponsors are American companies, NASL is a league based in America and has American sponsors, and I'm not quite sure but I think same goes for ESV. There is no question American societal standards are applicable here, no matter how much the Europeans want to say otherwise.
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My opinion is, I don't exactly want orb to be fired, but I think he should be. EG is probably the most prominent western eSports organization, and it just cannot be on them to have a guy who uses this language within it. If he had issued a formal apology, I think it would've been ok, but really he is responsible for starting this whole shitstorm on the forums to begin with, throwing words like "slander" around and calling people fools for jumping to conclusions.
We're trying to legitimize this scene, especially in the wake of this big sexual harassment nonsense. Can you even imagine if Tasteless or Artosis was seen using this kind of language? Of course they'd be fired from Gom unless they issued an immediate apology. Rage, sure, Artosis rages on his stream all the time and talks shit, nobody cares because it isn't racially charged. There IS a difference. It DOES make gamers look bad. If you think it doesn't, you are too deep in the trees to see the forest.
I don't think orb is some crazy Nazi, but definitely a little bit racist. I will still watch his casts because I don't care what he says or does outside of them, however, he should not be a figurehead of the community.
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Reddit's getting out of hand. Soon they'll be trawling through progamers' and casters' trash cans and elementary school records to find more dirt on them.
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Using the N word just shows how immature of a person he really is.
Grow up and stop acting like you are 16.
Thank you.
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After we are done lynching Orb, can we go after Tasteless? He is just as bad if not worse considering he does it while casting. People just brush it off because "hes Tasteless" and nothing more.
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On March 09 2012 12:14 tree.hugger wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 12:12 Kuja wrote:On March 09 2012 12:10 tree.hugger wrote:On March 09 2012 12:08 Kuja wrote:On March 09 2012 12:07 tree.hugger wrote:
Provided that: You want eSports to gain mainstream legitimacy and...
Provided that: Orb is responsible for these comments
Then EG should fire Orb, because these comments are completely unacceptable. In the US, you cannot say things like this without repercussions. Maybe some day it'll lose its bite, but that day is not now. Representatives of our community simply can't make statements like this, whether on ladder, or in a cast it doesn't matter. This isn't the "US" this is the internet. Lol Doesn't work that way. Real life happens sometimes. Does work that way. This is a internet forum, not a talk-show. Shockingly, what happens on the internet occasionally has real life repercussions. And it should, because the internet isn't some kind of magical fairly land, but it's a place where actual people interact.
Oh cyber Lorax, don't you know that you're not a person and just an abstract construct, like unicorns, a underage girl in the jailbait reddit, or terrorists?
Silly Lorax!
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On March 09 2012 12:00 densha wrote:
I'm surprised (well, I guess not really) that there are people posting here who just don't understand how offensive it is to watch a privileged white kid throw around a word that was forged in human bondage and suffering so freely. He chose to use the most offensive, taboo word in the English language to express simple ladder rage. He literally could have picked anything else to say, even "cunt" obviously doesn't have the history of the N word. It's the history that matters, folks, and the fact that Orb apparently has no regard for such things.
Freedom of speech is a wonderful thing but that doesn't mean you're free of the consequences of your speech. If Orb ever casts again, the chat will be constant N word references. He'll always be known (as South Park puts it) as "that nigger guy". Every time I see his face, it will be difficult to take him seriously or not think of the controversy. Is anyone really going to want him casting their games now? Can he serve as the face of an organization now? I do not think so, and that's simply the reality of a "public" figure using the N word and getting caught.
Do you think orb wants to enslave black people and make them suffer? Of course not, what a joke. The fact is, this WORD, unless used to specifically convey hate towards black people, shouldnt not be taken as racism. For example, if someone stubs their toe on a chair and says "fuckin nigger chair" they obviously aren't being racist they are blurting out a word that is associated with anger in their mind.
I do agree with the bottom part of your post but think it's pretty damn sad.
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On March 09 2012 11:52 Wuster wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 11:46 Esk23 wrote:
Why is "nigger" more emotionally charged for black people than cracker ass white boy is for white people? Blacks today didn't go through slavery. I'd understand if it were this way back during slavery when there were actually blacks who were slaves but this doesn't exist in today's age. I really think people need to just calm down and relax and don't take life so seriously. Chill. You should know that the n-word came into prominence in the year's after slavery. So it's tied to institutionalized racism (Blacks didn't even get equal rights 'on paper' until the 60s) more so than slavery. Blacks also never stopped being the minority in the US; nor discriminated against, as the Harvard resume study proved (and that was released 2011 I believe). So saying Black people need to be like White people and shrug off derogatory slurs is pretty ignorant.
I don't think so, that was the 1960s this is the year 2012.
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EPT
