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The subject of this thread is not a license to roll out your inaccurate, misinformed, poorly conceived, tired, and downright offensive theories about race relations. |
On March 09 2012 08:30 Dental Floss wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 08:28 BeeNu wrote:
Ok so he called a few people nigger, I'm pretty sure nobody really cares. Yeah sure it woulda helped to have just admitted it at first but I can also understand a kneejerk reaction to just deny it. Honestly the fact that anybody brought this up in the first place is just stupid, people say things like this all the time, nobody's going to get their panties in a wad if Idra or Destiny call someone a nigger so why single Orb out like this. You're posting in this thread of all threads and you're "pretty sure" nobody cares? Have you read even 1 single post in this 30 page thread?
It certainly begs the question why everyone is up in a fury right now. Before Orb joined EG, no one gave two shits about what he said on his stream. Now that he's on EG, suddenly everyone is in an uproar right now over two posts that happened while he wasn't affiliated with EG and one that might not even be him.
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On March 09 2012 08:32 Garth wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 08:31 babylon wrote:On March 09 2012 08:28 GumThief wrote:On March 09 2012 08:24 Kuja wrote:On March 09 2012 08:17 GumThief wrote:
Here is my take on the situation, and why I think that the backlash is warranted.
First of all let me state the use use of F****** and N**** are hurtful words where its sole purpose was to demean and destroy a group of people. I don't give two fucks if you give me an argument about Oh well, are you Black? OH! This is just internet trash talk. Nah.. Nah.
Secondly! Orb, you are representing now a team that has amazing sponsors and an unbelievable organisation behind it. Your words now directly reflect EG and their sponsors. And shit! Don't keep somebody around who may turn off potential sponsors and brands due to one dickhead. I don't care if it is done on stream or only on ladder or only at LAN parties, if word gets around that you are a bigot or an internet trash talking bigot then MANY companies and brands would not touch that with a ten foot poll.
Lastly! I agree with the outcry because hell, look at the FGC. They had a serious asshole step up and completely paint a negative picture of their community whether they liked it or not. What did they do about it? Fuck all. They sounded and looked like apathetic, whiney and DUMB kids in my opinion. Don't let the SC2 community, EVER, be represented by somebody who does not represent us at all in the slightest.
Do I think that he should be shunned from professional casting? Meh, not my call. But do I think that anybody who wants to be put in the spotlight, yet conducts themselves in a way that hurts our community image should be allowed to continue representing us? Nope!
Thanks xD :D Please open a history book, or learn some latin. Please please before you go on making such stupid unfounded statements. Sorry? You tell me what they refer to now then... If I walk down areas of Toronto that are openly "gay villages" and I say OH HEY A FAGGOT! Peoples heads will turn and it will be extremely obvious what I am saying.... Oh sorry bro I was talking about that twig over there.. Seriously? Get a fucking clue. FUCK! You're a dumb piece of shit. Get a fucking clue. There are gay communities out there who condone and even liberally use the word "fag" and "faggot" amongst themselves, just like how there are AA communities and speakers of AAE who use the word "nigger" as an endearing term. Lol but that slur isn't offensive among AA people, its only when an outside race uses it with a bad connotation as Orb did, saying he's stupid thus comparing him to a "nigger"
I'm not condoning what Orb did because he clearly doesn't speak or belong to an AA community, just pointing out that the words aren't hurtful in all circumstances.
Also, speakers of AAE don't have to be black, btw, and "nigger" is just as often used by white speakers of AAE as it is by black speakers.
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Hong Kong9164 Posts
On March 09 2012 08:27 TurboMaN wrote:
I really love Koreans, becaus they know how to behave and they even have a sense of honor. But raging people don't even know what the word honor means.
You are projecting. You can only say that only because you can't understand Korean and don't know what they are saying and writing online. HONOR isn't something that is bound by ethnic or even national considerations, it is a state of being. No one entire class or entire nation is uniquely more or less than the others.
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On March 09 2012 08:33 reapsen wrote:
This whole thing is just a friggin witch hunt. It began with the stuff about Katu from Playhem, now that he is gone, you guys need a new target and now orb is in your scope. Just great.
I want to ask just one question: What do you guys want? That no one wants to become a caster anymore, because from the moment he recieves some attention he has to behave like a friggin PC-superhuman and has to fear that everything he has done in the past might be brought up against him?! Hurray. Great attitude.
EG will probably kick him now, i suppose which means his casting carreer is basically over, because he won't be hired from any major events for sure.
And the community lost another promising and relatively good performing caster. Well done, community. Well done.
I want people to not use horribly offensive racial slurs. I never want to read that its "normal" to call someone a dumb nigger no matter what the context is.
If that makes me an extremist than I'm okay with that.
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So this SNSDYuri guy was so petty and sad that he had to grab his 15 minutes of fame by starting this business? Orb's language choice is immature and ignorant but what really makes me sad is that someone took an event from a ladder match and threw it all over reddit. Maybe the person wanted to take a stance against the term. Why didn't he just send it to one of the higher ups at EG? This kind of issue shouldn't be judged by the public.
Shame on the posters of the original screen captures for trying to cash in at someone else expense.
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wow this thread exploded. his bm is all over reddit too. i think we get it; alex is gonna address this as well.
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My ancestors were enslaved by the white man, and here we have the white man spreading racial hatred and the white man is excusing it, telling us to grow up. We need to take a stand against this hatred. Gonna boycott EG and their sponsors if they aren't going to address this properly.
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On March 09 2012 08:29 Junichi wrote:
Not in my opinion.. I just don't see that. People who infer from these situations, that orb is a racist are wrong imo.
The important point is not whether or not some particular dude is a racist. The important point is the kind of discourse that we, as a community, hold to be socially acceptable. Because we no longer have monolithic social institutions like the church to regulate this for us, we have to take this into our own collective hands.
That's why the "just teh internet" argument is bunk. The internet IS our space of collective discourse: if we don't exercise our power as a community of speakers to mold this discourse for the better we have abdicated our responsibility.
I don't want my identity as a starcraft player/enthusiast to have any association with the ignorant blatherings of spoiled kids who think this sort of shit is okay. If you use language like this, I (and anybody else with half a brain) will consider you an idiot and stop talking to you.
People who don't think it matters what words we use have no idea how signs work.
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On March 09 2012 08:33 reapsen wrote:
This whole thing is just a friggin witch hunt. It began with the stuff about Katu from Playhem, now that he is gone, you guys need a new target and now orb is in your scope. Just great.
I want to ask just one question: What do you guys want? That no one wants to become a caster anymore, because from the moment he recieves some attention he has to behave like a friggin PC-superhuman and has to fear that everything he has done in the past might be brought up against him?! Hurray. Great attitude.
EG will probably kick him now, i suppose which means his casting carreer is basically over, because he won't be hired from any major events for sure.
And the community lost another promising and relatively good performing caster. Well done, community. Well done.
But how are we gonna spread esports to everyone if people are not perfect? After all, bland and boring well-mannerism is what makes everything interesting
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On March 09 2012 08:35 dANiELcanuck wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 08:32 Mystgun wrote:
How the hell is this NOT a big deal? A homophobic professional caster using racial slurs sounds like something that needs to be addressed by the community. People like you make me hope StarCraft 2 dies. Soon.
touche
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I can't seem to find how does a dude raging across the Internet because of some video game because he lost in a way that is not up to his "moral code" is offensive, it rather degrades the BMer himself more than anything else. That said, as a professional caster (representative of Esports) and a rather more known figure than your average Master player I expect him to be less immature and at least acknowledge his mistake and apologize instead of pathetically trying to cover up and fueling the haters.
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Using a racist term doesn't make you a racist. I have no idea how this moronic idea has flitted into the collective psyche of over-eager Westerners, but it's still a bad idea. Same goes for homophobic terms. You know what? It doesn't even properly make sense to call a "term" bigoted. Terms don't have attitudes. They're not human beings. They're words. All that matters when it comes to words is the intent of the individual in the proper context. Does Orb really hate black people or homosexuals? I highly doubt it, but everyone's acting the same as if he actually did.
I could understand people's offense if this were an event stream, but it wasn't. It was Orb's own personal stream. You don't like what he does? Then tune him out. He's not streaming his ladder play on behalf of EG, nor is he streaming his ladder play on behalf of MLG or anyone else. You, the viewer, have no recourse because you're not actually buying/supporting anyone other than Orb by watching a personal ladder stream.
So yeah, the people who are offended by this? They're self-righteous and immature. That's not to say that Orb is a paragon of maturity, but if you actually feel hurt as a homosexual or black person every time someone utters the word faggot/nigger (and if this hurt is enough for you to decide that that person is a bigot) you have issues. I'm sorry, but it's true. If someone insults me to my face, I might be hurt by it. But if someone uses a generic term to demean people of my ethnicity or social standing in a generic context, I don't care at all. Know why? Because the only thing I can glean from this is that the person is mad. I can't glean that they hate me or people like me. All I know is that they're mad. And that's all you know about Orb in this case.
People crying about how Orb is a bigot are sensationalists of the highest order and need to kindly get their heads checked lest they spontaneously combust upon opening their front doors.
Tl;dr: If this were a professional cast, it would be unprofessional and probably breach the CoC of the relevant parent organization. However, it wasn't so it doesn't and you're all wrong for playing this up as some massive injustice.
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On March 09 2012 08:34 Vadrigar wrote:Are we still waiting for a statement from EG? People who are saying that it's not a big deal should really think about it. This is a guy who's supposed to be a "professional" caster. On top of all he lied about it several times and only apologized when he got caught. Pathetic. more lulz from reddit: Orb to give Slayers'Jessica PR lessons
haha this is awesome!
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EG removed their "a new lair resident" video that introduced Orb to the house and such.
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Wow, I had no idea that Orb behaved THIS badly. I knew he lightly rages sometimes, but this is far beyond what I had seen before. Not acceptable.
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Much like the Katu incident, the organizations involved whether it be directly or indirectly (EG in this case) have deemed it severe and are taking action.
If Alex and EG find it severe then that's all that matters. Say what you want about people raging on the ladder and whether or my he was under EG at the time, if EG decides its bad then it's bad.
I personally think he should be tossed to the curb with his bags at the EG house.
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On March 09 2012 08:35 RJGooner wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 08:30 Dental Floss wrote:On March 09 2012 08:28 BeeNu wrote:
Ok so he called a few people nigger, I'm pretty sure nobody really cares. Yeah sure it woulda helped to have just admitted it at first but I can also understand a kneejerk reaction to just deny it. Honestly the fact that anybody brought this up in the first place is just stupid, people say things like this all the time, nobody's going to get their panties in a wad if Idra or Destiny call someone a nigger so why single Orb out like this. You're posting in this thread of all threads and you're "pretty sure" nobody cares? Have you read even 1 single post in this 30 page thread? It certainly begs the question why everyone is up in a fury right now. Before Orb joined EG, no one gave two shits about what he said on his stream. Now that he's on EG, suddenly everyone is in an uproar right now over two posts that happened while he wasn't affiliated with EG and one that might not even be him.
Thats not true; I have always avoided his casts and also avoided other SC2 personalities because I found them offensive. I won't name names, but a few of them are quite bad about this.
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On March 09 2012 08:35 dANiELcanuck wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 08:32 Mystgun wrote:
How the hell is this NOT a big deal? A homophobic professional caster using racial slurs sounds like something that needs to be addressed by the community. People like you make me hope StarCraft 2 dies. Soon.
Honestly, this. If someone raged on the ladder in BW or in WC3, nobody would give a fuck. SC2 really needs to be taken down a peg so we can shed this illusion of "professionalism" that the killjoys around here seem to be perpetuating.
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On March 09 2012 08:35 Xann wrote:
My ancestors were enslaved by the white man, and here we have the white man spreading racial hatred and the white man is excusing it, telling us to grow up. We need to take a stand against this hatred. Gonna boycott EG and their sponsors if they aren't going to address this properly.
that white man sounds like someone we should hate
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On March 09 2012 08:35 dANiELcanuck wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 08:32 Mystgun wrote:
How the hell is this NOT a big deal? A homophobic professional caster using racial slurs sounds like something that needs to be addressed by the community. People like you make me hope StarCraft 2 dies. Soon.
There's a lot of irony in your post. Competative Starcraft 2 WILL die if this kind of behavior is accepted.
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