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First i want to say im sorry if this isnt in the right forums but i was told i could post my thoughts here.
So ive been seeing for along time terrans in late game bank 3k or 4k+ gas. Ive talked to a few players like illusion and hashe but they havent really had much time to see if my thinking can help out late game.
Terrans start a game getting the amount of gas they need and it continues on them building refineries whenever is needed. But it seems like at 3 base and more they just expo and grab the gas out of habit. When playing a low gas build that lasts till late game like in TvZ or TvT (marine tank) when they get to 3 base or 4 bases they have 6-8 refineries and can bank 1k-2k gas.
From watching these low gas type builds it seems that 4 refineries (2 bases) is efficient in banking enough gas for any upgrades/units needed till the 25-30 min mark. So if terrans at early game get the gas needed and dont over saturate to to increase mineral gain, why could the same not go for mid to late game?
My thoughts are doing this and only making the amount of refineries needed could help with more minerals, possibly less SCV production = bigger army, and could help macro. By getting more minerals you could make more production buildings and more CCs. With more CCs you could sac more SCVs to help your army size.
I would like your thoughts on this, also if anyone could possibly try it would and post their results to what it did please let me know! Thank you for taking your time! GLHF!
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Excess gas? Why not Ravens?
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....
lol
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Hahahaha
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+ Show Spoiler +i knew there was a reason I saved this gif
![[image loading]](http://pics.livejournal.com/colleeeeeeeeeen/pic/0001tgqa)
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terrans need ton of gas mid and late-game in every matchup, minerals mine out earlier than gas and they keep massing marines (they should do that). therefore, we see high gas counts on lategame terran - at least if we see bio or bio/mech play.
thats normal in the current metagame.
i think ravens can be the way out. they can be pretty strong in basically EVERY matchup and are the "gas-dumb-out" unit for terran - just like HTs are for protoss or infestors are for zerg (50/150 | 100/150).
I'm pretty sure terrans will either learn to take less gas / take workers out of gas earlier or use very lategame units/skill like nuke/BC/massGhost/RAVEN in every matchup soon.
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Russian Federation3631 Posts
Is this some allegory about the Iranian oil sanctions?
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Lategame higher tier units need gas (ghosts are pretty good last I heard).
I don't know what kind of terran banks that much gas... I've looked at replays from friends (diamond/ low masters) and neither player floats that much gas, unless its one of those crazy macro games. Even then I don't think they go past 2k...
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This reminds me of the "question" periods at the end of day[9] dailies, where people try to make it seem like they're asking a "question", but instead write out a "Wouldn't it be better for x-pro to *shitty idea*, because *shitty reason*?" statement. You aren't going to think of anything that pros haven't thought of, stop trying; you're just being a blatantly obvious attention whore.
Also, wrong forum.
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Should be in SC2 Strategy? Common sense, yo.
Here's my guess from personal experience:
Taking those 5-6 7-8+ gasses is just out of habit
The most common core terran units are gas light (MM, hellions), only upgrades + support use of a lot of gas
But early game needs a lot of gas for upgrading and support units
Late game those support units don't die as often as the core units and all your upgrades are mostly finished, so they don't need as much gas
Those core units are gonna keep on dying, so we keep expanding for the minerals, but those gasses are just made out of habit when taking an expo
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On January 29 2012 14:35 419 wrote:
Is this some allegory about the Iranian oil sanctions?
This is what I came in expecting.
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On January 29 2012 14:35 419 wrote:
Is this some allegory about the Iranian oil sanctions?
Thank you so much for that. can't_stop_laughing.
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And I thought this was a conspiracy thread about the USA gov hoarding gasoline...
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This thread needs a chibi picture of a marine farting captioned *poot*
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As a friendly protoss player, I would like to offer any terrans in this thread an easy way to get rid of that excess gas taking up dead space in your command centres. Just give it to me, I will make good use of it, I promise 
In all seriousness though, I think you are onto something, terrans do need to not waste so many minerals on getting refineries. those mins that they spend on useless refineries could be much better spent on marines.
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I once played a game where i floated gas in TvZ because i forgot to reactor my starport during a rine tank build.
Because of this I no longer build refineries.
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Depending on your build terran usually needs atleast 6gas for upgrades and heavy tech units. Having only exactly the gas income you need for what you're currently building constantly will get you in trouble the moment you need more gas. Excess gas doesn't hurt, same way excess supply doesn't hurt. Also, there's a finite amount of gas in geysers, so you might not have excess gas later in game after the geysers are mined out.
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On January 29 2012 14:33 Abort Retry Fail wrote:+ Show Spoiler +i knew there was a reason I saved this gif
this is still my favorite gif i think. at least, one of my favorites.
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its because no broodwar pros have come over that will min-max those scvs on gas into maxing a minute earlier and executing faster pushes
wait until flash comes over and starts stomping kids, then everyone will have to adapt
terrans can win without taking those scvs off gas so why do they need to do it atm?
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On January 29 2012 14:39 Taekwon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2012 14:35 419 wrote:
Is this some allegory about the Iranian oil sanctions? This is what I came in expecting.
exactly the same here.
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I've been trying to add a lot of banshees into my late game TvP but it's not that good since they have such a long build time.
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so like you didn't leave any examples...or replays...or vods...or junk
Terrans continue to accumulate gas well into the late game because gas is harder to get than minerals.
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There's no real gas "sink" for Terran like other races since ghosts got nerfed to cost less gas and more minerals.
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On January 29 2012 14:35 419 wrote:
Is this some allegory about the Iranian oil sanctions?
Nice one, sir.
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On January 29 2012 19:54 Numy wrote:
There's no real gas "sink" for Terran like other races since ghosts got buffed to cost less gas and more minerals.
Its better to have too much gas than not enough as any protoss will tell you.
As for the topic at hand - you can only get gas at a set max rate whereas moving workers from gas to minerals makes mining minerals less efficient overall. Bank and use the gas for late game is a legitimate strategy.
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On January 29 2012 20:13 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2012 19:54 Numy wrote:
There's no real gas "sink" for Terran like other races since ghosts got buffed to cost less gas and more minerals. Its better to have too much gas than not enough as any protoss will tell you.
lol for protoss yes. Because Protoss has HT/Archon and collosus 1:3, and 3:2 min to gas ratio , good gas dumps both can do high splash damage. When playing bio marine all minerals, marauder 4:1 min gas ratio, ghost 2:1, viking2:1. Minerals are the constraint not gas until pros find way to somehow make adding ravens to bio viable, bcs, thors and tanks will probably never be useful.
Not saying anything is imba or anything just you come off as pretty arrogant with your "fixed" style reply to him when you don't seem to understand the race you are talking about. Even if you watch any pro tvp macro game its often pretty obvious their minerals are being constrained much more than their gas once their 3-3 is done.
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On January 29 2012 14:35 419 wrote:
Is this some allegory about the Iranian oil sanctions?
you reading too much into it tehran and terran lol lol lol
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Wait this makes sense to me why is everyone else trolling?
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On January 29 2012 20:50 KimJongChill wrote:
Wait this makes sense to me why is everyone else trolling?
I guess it's because it's not in the right forum. 
OT: I also feel that I keep banking up a lot of gas near the mid-late game. But I can't do anything about it since my main army composition revolves around marines and tanks. What I usually do is remove SCVs from gas and put them on minerals or bring them with my army. (SCVs are great meat shields )
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People think its so easy for terran to spend gas. Protoss and zerg can just tap on their existing infrastructure and add 1/2 tech buildings to build lots of gas intensive units. For terran, we have to add lots of factories/starports to be able to spend that gas all at one go once we bank it up. Terran will always have extra gas and thats just part of the game unless your terran and your going mech, unless u want us to put down 5-6 factories so we can get 6 thors at 1 go.
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ravens are not the way to go in tvp unless the opponent is massing stalkers (since PDD only stops stalker and phoenix shots, and no one goes phoenix in pvt), which doesn't happen lategame as tosses know stalkers kinda suck beyond early-midgame. Seeker missile is garbage and auto turrets are not worth 200 gas. I would rather have BCs or even banshees over ravens in tvp.
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most good terran don't bank gas.
and its much harder for terran to spend gas quickly, since you need additional infrastructure while protoss and zerg don't
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I'm guessing this is because 1) its almost always better to have too much gas than not enough gas and 2) for the 3rd/4th/etc. base people are habituated into taking gases during or shortly after building an expansion regardless of whether they need them or not. It's obvious though that if they aren't ultimately going to be using the gas for any reason (no major lategame tech switch to bc's or anything) those 12 scvs could instead be mining 500 minerals extra per minute (based on this, which turns out to be 60% of a fully saturated base) at that very moment rather than collecting gas that will never be used.
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this is kind of a stupid thread... its kind of obvious... if you dont need that much gas just dont take the geysirs... 6 gases is enough for tvz and tvp and 4-5 gases is enough for bio vs mech and with mech u just want as much as u can
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On January 29 2012 14:31 Taekwon wrote:
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lol
DAT_USERNAME
we should go archon mode man, we'd be kicking ass!
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On January 29 2012 14:40 Joedaddy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2012 14:35 419 wrote:
Is this some allegory about the Iranian oil sanctions? Thank you so much for that. can't_stop_laughing.
That is pretty fucking hilarious :D
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It's generally something that only happens in 30+ minute games, when terrans no longer have anything to spend their gas on outside mineral-heavy units.
Before about 30 minutes terrans float *some* gas, but not all that much, then suddenly all their upgrades finish and their units have a mineral-heavy mix leading to gas because they don't take SCVs off gas.
It is quite wasteful from a worker/economy perspective, but it's one of many small things which players do/don't do which sets their game far away from perfection.
It's also not something terrans feel concerned enough about because it's not particularly material, since they have mules to make up for the econ, and they sac "enough" SCVs lategame if they go mass CC to have a large army and still maintain good enough economy that they extra 3~6 food from saccing a couple of geysers of SCVs doesn't matter compared to all the other little things they mess up.
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I think one reason Terrans float gas is because of Mules. When they secure a new base and call down 6+ Mules, there is a sudden huge influx of minerals, and the banked gas will come to use. Otherwise, they can easily find themselves gas starved right at the moment they seem to get an economical advantage.
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On January 29 2012 15:00 Kashll wrote:
I once played a game where i floated gas in TvZ because i forgot to reactor my starport during a rine tank build.
Because of this I no longer build refineries.
I think this is the correct solution!
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I don't think the OP could be more vague... What are the supplies of these terrans at the 25-30 minute mark? In the pros they are usually maxed at this point with gas being the limiting factory for getting a more efficient army. Plus at this point in the game a terran player is going have anywhere between 3 and 5 orbital commands so minerals are not an issue. Gas is the most important resource in the late game and when bases are being taken or exchanged, the collection of minerals is much more easily reestablished than gas. If the OP would cite an example or replay we could have a more intelligent discussion about this.
I.E. Show me the replay where a professional Terran is banking 3k-4k gas and isn't maxed or wasn't recently maxed.
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When I'm banking gas, it's rather that ive to many raxes churning out bio. By that, I mean I'm depleting my minerals way faster than gas and I don't have enough minerals left for the gas units 100% of the time. This is normally because I got supply blocked and needed to use up the excess minerals(at the time).
The only real gas unit is the raven, which is very very situational. I'm very rarely going "ohh I've got to much gas" since vikings and ghosts eat gas quite efficiently, they just eat minerals too.
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lol marines are too good.... ravens with HSM maybe can break siege lines... no?
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Norway10161 Posts
How this this get so bad?
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EPT
