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On January 29 2012 05:47 cz wrote:
Just move the individual game threads to blog posts, that way they don't "overcrowd" the sports and games thread (and blogs can't be bumped in the main listing).
I doubt that would be allowed either. I'm thinking the only thing we can do is create two posts per game which we go back and edit repeatedly... in either case, it appears Ng5 is too frustrated to bother.
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Canada5155 Posts
Opening 5 separate threads for a series of chess matches between 6 users is not an acceptable use of the forum. This is not a personal playground, and we received multiple complaints regarding the matter. Yes, this is all very interesting stuff, but it doesn't warrant dominating the entire sub-forum. Despite claims to the otherwise, explicit permission was never given for this.
That said, this can very easily be done within one thread, where the moves are sent to one another via PM or IM and posted in spoilers in the OP of this thread. Nothing about this warrants 5 threads.
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Nothing warrants getting no replies for over a week for an event that lasts 4 hours. (Yes it could have been two days, but with the interest shown it would have been over in 4-5.)
And this wasn't the first event I tried messaging people over and over and over with - and save for Rage noone ever bothered to reply. Many times that caused me to just cancel it and wait for a better time.
No permission? It's easy. Click PM, write no sorry it's not allowed. Or if your moderators are so busy reading all the posts every where they could read the part where I said it would be separate threads on OP for more than a week.
Then different messages during the event and contradictory decisions from different moderators.
Even with four people the preparations were not like "oh let's jack off my e-peen for a few minutes, derp". If you stopped for one minute and think about all the work going into this and why having separate threads is warranted or necessary you could find reasons. I decided to do it despite small interest. Every ten seconds there was an average of one views for a longer while. Surely it was a huge bother.
Sorry guys, but I'm good enough to choose and not to be chosen. I want to do my stuff I prepare for a long time in peace. If that's not warranted I won't. It's that simple. I'm not here because I can't do this anywhere else. I was here because I chose to.
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This is why I suggested using blogs in the first place way back when you first floated the idea of a simul. As Hawaiian Pig says, it could also be managed in one thread without too much trouble. You said yourself that the moderators had contradictory opinions, maybe they had trouble agreeing what to do about it. Maybe that's why they didn't PM you with a firm decision one way or the other. And HP said that they got complaints about the subforum being full of the chess threads, so maybe that's what pushed them into deciding the way they did, but otherwise they would have left them open. I mean, they're people too, you know. They're trying to do the right thing just like all of us.
With that said, I really do understand why you're upset, Ng5, and probably things weren't handled the best way they could have been, but please don't just up and leave the site over this. Give it another chance, you know? If you do leave, I'm sure I'll be just one of many who misses you.
At least give it another think when you're calmer, would you? A guy should never make a major decision when he's angry.
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On January 29 2012 08:54 qrs wrote:This is why I suggested using blogs in the first place way back when you first floated the idea of a simul. As Hawaiian Pig says, it could also be managed in one thread without too much trouble. You said yourself that the moderators had contradictory opinions, maybe they had trouble agreeing what to do about it. Maybe that's why they didn't PM you with a firm decision one way or the other. And HP said that they got complaints about the subforum being full of the chess threads, so maybe that's what pushed them into deciding the way they did, but otherwise they would have left them open. I mean, they're people too, you know. They're trying to do the right thing just like all of us. With that said, I really do understand why you're upset, Ng5, and probably things weren't handled the best way they could have been, but please don't just up and leave the site over this. Give it another chance, you know? If you do leave, I'm sure I'll be just one of many who misses you. At least give it another think when you're calmer, would you? A guy should never make a major decision when he's angry.
I actually think all of these types of games would be better as blogs in future.
If you're challenging TL and want to be the only opponent, your blog is the best place IMO.
If it were to be teams, that would be a different story.
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qrs wrote:This is why I suggested using blogs in the first place way back when you first floated the idea of a simul. As Hawaiian Pig says, it could also be managed in one thread without too much trouble. You said yourself that the moderators had contradictory opinions, maybe they had trouble agreeing what to do about it. Maybe that's why they didn't PM you with a firm decision one way or the other. And HP said that they got complaints about the subforum being full of the chess threads, so maybe that's what pushed them into deciding the way they did, but otherwise they would have left them open. I mean, they're people too, you know. They're trying to do the right thing just like all of us. With that said, I really do understand why you're upset, Ng5, and probably things weren't handled the best way they could have been, but please don't just up and leave the site over this. Give it another chance, you know? If you do leave, I'm sure I'll be just one of many who misses you. At least give it another think when you're calmer, would you? A guy should never make a major decision when he's angry.
I am not, and was not ever angry today. What I am though - when it comes to chess, poetry, and sometimes even science - an artist. I do it for the beauty of it and the only reason why I share it because the only thing better than creating something nice is sharing it with people who might also appreciate its beauty.
This is not a case of preparing for an exhibition of paintings, but the owners of the ball only want to let me showcase them in the ballroom, only in a small corner room - or *gasp* the cellar. I don't mind the cellar, mind you. This is about opening up the whole crap and while you talk to people about the paintings some guards come in and take them away - but hey you can still check them out in this other room.
I fully understand this is a StarCraft site. This is why I take 125% care before doing any of my crap. I messaged several people to no reply - do you wonder why I didn't make many of my ideas in the end previously? I don't think you do anymore.
I was in the middle of painting. I don't play chess often - last time it was early September. But I got myself to do it. Prepared for it. And got into the swing of it. It's when the figures cease to be pieces and the board loses its colours - all you see is patterns and magic. Yet I kept dragging out of it. Did I get permission? I said that I asked many people about it with no replies. Then again 'we will let it slip'. Don't goddamn let it slip, mmkay? An average of 10 moves in 3 games took 2 hours. Given that most of the games would have been decided or close to by move 20, but still. I spent more time screenshotting, copy pasting, formatting my posts than on thinking of it. I don't care if anyone appreciates it, but don't push barriers in my way please.
It was 3 simple posts. In very lively games thread by the way - mind you this site is not about random games either. I'm not even asking what kept the same moderators from moderating my other thread when it was going down in flame-wars. This is (y)our site. I get it. And this is my chess. My art. I don't care if you don't appreciate it. And I won't be angry if you bitch about it. Or don't want it. Or just don't give a shit about giving a single fuck for or about it. But I was making my art. Don't come around and mess with someone when they do so. And it wasn't an immediate thing either. After getting a 'we will let it slip' from one person another one closes shit down after more than two hours.
And no. It cannot be done in a blog or in one single separate thread. If you stop for a second and think about it. I'm copying, pasting, refreshing, thinking. I can't go back and forth between games and hunt down posts. Who did what and then keep updating one single main thread about that, too. That's - not - viable. That is why I tried to talk to people about it. So it wouldn't be a problem.
Again there was an average of 1 view every 10 or so seconds for two hours. What about those people who were actually interested? I'm not even bringing up that it got handled as if it was all my jacking off to the face of the games forums because... Well because it's fun.
The only thing I was upset - but not angry about - is what I already overexplained. I got freaking bothered and bent over while doing something that I put my whole heart and soul into.
The bottom line is - it's like a relationship. Sooner or later you have to sit down and think if what you are giving into it is worth it. Is it worth it doing for you guys. Hell yes it does. But does it worth it getting kicked out of my zone? No. It doesn't. That's not art. That's just herpa-derpa-derp-derp-derp.
PS: I hate writing these big ass threads. I better stop here before I'll have to apologize to Coach Lee as well...
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Canada5155 Posts
I don't like discussing moderation issues in public, but since you've chosen to publicly denounce TL moderation on this matter, I'd like to clarify a few things in the interest of transparency. This image of inconsistency and complacency you seem to be painting of the moderation staff is entirely unfounded.
First, I understand that you received no replies to your queries on IRC or via PM.
The discourse you claim to have had with the "half a dozen" mods over the course of the last week was mostly indirect on this matter.
For example, these are my logs from your PM to me specifically:
[23:51:00] <Ng5> hey, I would like my new chess match thread renamed because there seems to be not as big of an interest in it that I think it deserves, whom should I contact?
[02:50:54] <hpig> did you get your thread renamed?
Unfortunately, I was busy with writing a law school paper and I was unable to get back to you within 3 hours. You were not online at the time when I tried to follow up and the discussion ended there.
This being an example of your "preparations" for this event, it was clear that none of the moderators knew what exactly you were doing. There is only one instance of an PM asking for explicit permission to open multiple threads and "flood" the Sports and Games forum. It was lost in a sea of other PMs; this occasionally happens.
In any case, regardless of the number of times you attempted to contact forum staff, this does not absolve your position in the matter.
Think of it this way: If you want to use a public park to hold a concert, you seek permission of the city. If you file a request and never hear back, this is not grounds to set up shop in the park and start blasting music. It's especially not grounds to cry foul when the police show up to shut you down for causing a disturbance.
Further to this point, you cannot expect us to read your OP and pro-actively tell you that this isn't OK. There are literally thousands of threads on TL. For the most part, we can only afford to be reactive.
This is why, when your event started, it took some time to close it.
We first received complaints about your thread, and the moderators present discussed the matter regarding whether or not to close it. Because we generally enjoy your chess threads and streams, and because we recognized that you put significant effort into organizing this event, you were told that while this was unacceptable use of the forum, we were willing to let it slide.
You elected to be very rude in your response, saying that you contacted many moderators, and that "No one took the time to tell [you] no". You went on to say that because of "all these preparations", we were in no position to "let this slide".
On that matter, we had to confer with the others you claimed to have been in contact with in order to see if they in fact gave you permission. It took time to contact the 3 or 4 moderators you listed, as they are people with lives too. Once it became clear that you hadn't been given permission, your threads were closed.
In all honesty, while I and others find your chess skills worthy of showcasing, it doesn't warrant breaking the rules and negatively affecting the experience of others who use the forums. You are no more important than any other user; even in spite of all of this self-aggrandizing "art" discourse.
You have a talent, and its worth it for others to see, but this does not give you license to place yourself above others.
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On January 29 2012 14:32 Ng5 wrote:
And no. It cannot be done in a blog or in one single separate thread. If you stop for a second and think about it. I'm copying, pasting, refreshing, thinking. I can't go back and forth between games and hunt down posts. Who did what and then keep updating one single main thread about that, too. That's - not - viable. That is why I tried to talk to people about it. So it wouldn't be a problem. Maybe it's not worth harping on this point, but when I said "blogs", I meant multiple threads just as you actually had it--only with the threads in the blog forum. The main post with links to the games could still be in Sports and Games or TL Community. I suppose it would still be up to the moderators whether to allow that, but it seems to me that it would be all right. The blog forum is meant for more personal stuff, and if you're playing a game with each of 5 people, I don't see why each of them couldn't make a blog post for their game.
In any case, I realize that this is a bit off the subject by now. To the main point, let me just say again that there are plenty of people who appreciate you here and will be happy if you stay (including HP, to judge by his last post), regardless of this disagreement.
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*yawn*
User was temp banned for this post.
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I'm actually astonished a mod has condescended to even publically discuss moderation on this matter. isn't the usual response close the thread, PM, if there are further issues further PMs are required?
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Hey I'm special.
Me > everyone else.
Don't forget.
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EPT
