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Source: http://www.cnn.com/2012/01/11/us/video-marines-urinating/index.html?hpt=hp_t3
Washington (CNN) -- A number of websites including TMZ and YouTube posted a video Wednesday showing four men dressed in U.S. Marine Corps combat gear urinating on the apparently dead bodies of three men sprawled on the ground in front of them.
One of the men says, "Have a great day, buddy." A voice asks, "You got it on the video?" to which another voice responds, "Yeah." Another jokes, "Golden, like a shower."
The US government has already commented on it and are currently investigating who did this.
If I may, I would like to do more than post the story, but also give my personal experience with a group of marines.
A friend of my girlfriend was getting married and my girlfriend was one of the bride's maids. As such, there was a get together the day before the wedding at their home for the brides maids and best men etc. As the boyfriend of a bride's maid, I had the pleasure of coming along as well. The man who she was marrying was a marine, and all of his best men were also marines who served together in Iraq or Afghanistan, I can't recall which. When I arrived, they were playing Resident Evil 4, I think. They would joke about how they pretended that the zombies were Muslims, and how they absolutely loved killing Muslims. One of them specifically mentioned how it made them feel amazing to kill Muslims, followed by the rest agreeing and talking about it. I was just kinda sitting on a chair in the living room, as they all sat on a couch. I was speechless and couldn't really wrap my mind around the fact that they meant what they were saying and really felt that way. They continued talking about how they hated Muslims and how much they miss killing them in the war. I could tell that they were being serious and saw nothing wrong with what they were saying. I know its hard to really describe, but I could tell they were being quite serious. The bride and groom were very religious, and the other marines seemed to be the same. I know that some, far from all, Christians see Muslim faith as a competitor of sorts. Nevertheless, the most disgusting behavior I've ever had the displeasure of of watching.
I don't like how just about any physically capable person can become a marine. I don't like that there are such low psychological and mental requirements. If someone is given, they need to be an outstanding person. The people shown in this video and the group of marines I described are certainly far from DECENT people. They bring shame to my country and I wish that there was more being done to prevent such people from serving.
Note: I do not feel these in the video or the ones I met in person represent Marines or the US military as a whole. However, these people were issued guns and were put in situations where they had the potential to harm civilians. This is beyond unacceptable. It shouldn't be so easy to be a marine. There have been similar incidents in the past as well.
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These specific men are jerks (although not as detestable as the marines who threw the puppy over the cliff).
Marines, in general, are honorable men.
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When you're giving people weapons and authority and sending them into another people's country, the tolerance for error and abuse needs to be zero. The unfortunate reality is that the United States is hardly fit to lead by example and many of the soldiers are just as disgusting as the commanders and politicians and policies that govern them.
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You also need to take into account the fact that war is life or death and that perhaps these marines were changed during combat. Also Muslims, although wrong, can be used as a blanket term for the people they were fighting. I highly doubt they missed killing women and children of the Muslim faith. You can see where that would be mininterpretted. Also, have you been to war? If not, do not be so quick to judge those who protect our nation's interests.
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You can't judge an entire group of people based on the actions of a few individuals.
Your very own story illustrates this. Perhaps those Marines hate Muslims because of the select few that attacked/fought them or whatever?
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What was the US government comment out of curiosity?
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On January 12 2012 10:05 1Eris1 wrote:
You can't judge an entire group of people based on the actions of a few individuals.
Your very own story illustrates this. Perhaps those Marines hate Muslims because of the select few that attacked/fought them or whatever?
Nicely said.
Media will pounce on it regardless. We just have to keep an open mind.
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On January 12 2012 09:58 Mohdoo wrote:Source: http://www.cnn.com/2012/01/11/us/video-marines-urinating/index.html?hpt=hp_t3Show nested quote +Washington (CNN) -- A number of websites including TMZ and YouTube posted a video Wednesday showing four men dressed in U.S. Marine Corps combat gear urinating on the apparently dead bodies of three men sprawled on the ground in front of them.
One of the men says, "Have a great day, buddy." A voice asks, "You got it on the video?" to which another voice responds, "Yeah." Another jokes, "Golden, like a shower." The US government has already commented on it and are currently investigating who did this. If I may, I would like to do more than post the story, but also give my personal experience with a group of marines. A friend of my girlfriend was getting married and my girlfriend was one of the bride's maids. As such, there was a get together the day before the wedding at their home for the brides maids and best men etc. As the boyfriend of a bride's maid, I had the pleasure of coming along as well. The man who she was marrying was a marine, and all of his best men were also marines who served together in Iraq or Afghanistan, I can't recall which. When I arrived, they were playing Resident Evil 4, I think. They would joke about how they pretended that the zombies were Muslims, and how they absolutely loved killing Muslims. One of them specifically mentioned how it made them feel amazing to kill Muslims, followed by the rest agreeing and talking about it. I was just kinda sitting on a chair in the living room, as they all sat on a couch. I was speechless and couldn't really wrap my mind around the fact that they meant what they were saying and really felt that way. They continued talking about how they hated Muslims and how much they miss killing them in the war. I could tell that they were being serious and saw nothing wrong with what they were saying. I know its hard to really describe, but I could tell they were being quite serious. The bride and groom were very religious, and the other marines seemed to be the same. I know that some, far from all, Christians see Muslim faith as a competitor of sorts. Nevertheless, the most disgusting behavior I've ever had the displeasure of of watching. I don't like how just about any physically capable person can become a marine. I don't like that there are such low psychological and mental requirements. If someone is given, they need to be an outstanding person. The people shown in this video and the group of marines I described are certainly far from DECENT people. They bring shame to my country and I wish that there was more being done to prevent such people from serving. Note: I do not feel these in the video or the ones I met in person represent Marines or the US military as a whole. However, these people were issued guns and were put in situations where they had the potential to harm civilians. This is beyond unacceptable. It shouldn't be so easy to be a marine. There have been similar incidents in the past as well.
1. What is wrong with pissing on bodies? I mean, it's unprofessional, and rude, but is there anything really morally wrong with it? It's a peace of dead meat. The person isn't inside that body any more.
2. Why include the ridiculous anecdotal story about some marines joking around while playing a game? I don't see how this connects with the article at all. Furthermore, I have heard a thousand variations of this same story a thousand times, and so that makes me wonder why you put it here even more.
3. You don't have to be nice to be a solider. On the contrary, the military would probably prefer having the nasty guy to the nice guy. The nice guy is good, but when it comes time to blow some people up and kill some people, you don't want someone who has a problem with killing. You want someone that wants to kill, likes to kill, and will kill.
4. It isn't easy being a soldier. We need soldiers though, and they don't need to be great people. They need to be killers. Killers, often, are not the greatest people. There aren't enough nice people who are also killers to fill the shoes that we need. Life sucks, move on.
User was temp banned for this post.
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On January 12 2012 10:00 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
These specific men are jerks (although not as detestable as the marines who threw the puppy over the cliff).
Marines, in general, are honorable men.
Soldiers in general, are brainwashed to imorality and mass murder. As OPs example shows.
I find the entire military system (at least where i come from) to be a childish, money sink.
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On January 12 2012 10:09 Brett wrote:
What was the US government comment out of curiosity?
Most likely our government won't issue out a comment, the USMC probably will.
edit: NVM, they already did
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On January 12 2012 10:05 Swaddled wrote:
You also need to take into account the fact that war is life or death and that perhaps these marines were changed during combat. Also Muslims, although wrong, can be used as a blanket term for the people they were fighting. I highly doubt they missed killing women and children of the Muslim faith. You can see where that would be mininterpretted. Also, have you been to war? If not, do not be so quick to judge those who protect our nation's interests.
None of that matters. When a person can take pleasure in ending the life of another, they are truly sadistic. I also don't agree with the statement that our armed forces are currently "protecting our nation's interests." Current U.S. foreign policy in regards to countries in the Middle East is almost imperialistic in nature, they're not protecting anyone.
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On January 12 2012 10:13 Leaky wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 10:05 Swaddled wrote:
You also need to take into account the fact that war is life or death and that perhaps these marines were changed during combat. Also Muslims, although wrong, can be used as a blanket term for the people they were fighting. I highly doubt they missed killing women and children of the Muslim faith. You can see where that would be mininterpretted. Also, have you been to war? If not, do not be so quick to judge those who protect our nation's interests. None of that matters. When a person can take pleasure in ending the life of another, they are truly sadistic. I also don't agree with the statement that our armed forces are currently "protecting our nation's interests." Current U.S. foreign policy in regards to countries in the Middle East is almost imperialistic in nature, they're not protecting anyone.
I would disagree, They are protecting the wealth of the few.
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On January 12 2012 10:13 Leaky wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 10:05 Swaddled wrote:
You also need to take into account the fact that war is life or death and that perhaps these marines were changed during combat. Also Muslims, although wrong, can be used as a blanket term for the people they were fighting. I highly doubt they missed killing women and children of the Muslim faith. You can see where that would be mininterpretted. Also, have you been to war? If not, do not be so quick to judge those who protect our nation's interests. None of that matters. When a person can take pleasure in ending the life of another, they are truly sadistic. I also don't agree with the statement that our armed forces are currently "protecting our nation's interests." Current U.S. foreign policy in regards to countries in the Middle East is almost imperialistic in nature, they're not protecting anyone.
You've probably never killed anyone, or had much discussion with those who have.
Let's just say, ignorance is bliss.
Me? I think jumping out of a plane would be scarier than shit. Someone else? The adrenaline rush makes them love it.
Me? I think shooting someone in the face while in a fire-fight would be scarier than shit. Someone else? The adrenaline rush makes them love it.
So you know, try not being so black and white with your judgments...
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of course they're stupid enough to make a video.
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On January 12 2012 10:13 Leaky wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 10:05 Swaddled wrote:
You also need to take into account the fact that war is life or death and that perhaps these marines were changed during combat. Also Muslims, although wrong, can be used as a blanket term for the people they were fighting. I highly doubt they missed killing women and children of the Muslim faith. You can see where that would be mininterpretted. Also, have you been to war? If not, do not be so quick to judge those who protect our nation's interests. None of that matters. When a person can take pleasure in ending the life of another, they are truly sadistic. I also don't agree with the statement that our armed forces are currently "protecting our nation's interests." Current U.S. foreign policy in regards to countries in the Middle East is almost imperialistic in nature, they're not protecting anyone.
Not that I support it, but in a non-ethical and political sense, how is keeping the oil flowing not maintaining our nation's interests?
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Thisi snt news. What about the videos of marines killing civilans, planting guns on their bodes to fake an attack justified killing, and then cutting off and keeping body parts?
I've seen so much of this this doesn't surprise or anger me any further than I already am.
On January 12 2012 10:16 Hikko wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 10:13 Leaky wrote:On January 12 2012 10:05 Swaddled wrote:
You also need to take into account the fact that war is life or death and that perhaps these marines were changed during combat. Also Muslims, although wrong, can be used as a blanket term for the people they were fighting. I highly doubt they missed killing women and children of the Muslim faith. You can see where that would be mininterpretted. Also, have you been to war? If not, do not be so quick to judge those who protect our nation's interests. None of that matters. When a person can take pleasure in ending the life of another, they are truly sadistic. I also don't agree with the statement that our armed forces are currently "protecting our nation's interests." Current U.S. foreign policy in regards to countries in the Middle East is almost imperialistic in nature, they're not protecting anyone. Not that I support it, but how is keeping the oil flowing not maintaining our nation's interests?
yeah, plunging two countries into chaos and havign all the innocent people in that country live in FEAR and worry about their lives daily, just to keep oil flowing... Lets not forget all the dead civilians in the 100,000's shall we. ALso, if you take that first line "live in fear", isnt that what terrorists seek to craete? Either we played along with the terrorists by creating this, or we ARE the terrorists for having a hand in causing it ourselves.
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On January 12 2012 10:05 Swaddled wrote:
Also, have you been to war? If not, do not be so quick to judge those who protect our nation's interests.
lol! "Our nation's interest" - that's just murder and theft if you ask me.
That was a horrible story.
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"They bring shame to my country..." I wish people spoke like this more nowadays.
That's a sad news story, and yours is even more sad.
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They got a building down New York City, it's called Whitehall Street,
where you walk in, you get injected, inspected, detected, infected,
neglected and selected. I went down to get my physical examination one
day, and I walked in, I sat down, got good and drunk the night before, so
I looked and felt my best when I went in that morning. `Cause I wanted to
look like the all-American kid from New York City, man I wanted, I wanted
to feel like the all-, I wanted to be the all American kid from New York,
and I walked in, sat down, I was hung down, brung down, hung up, and all
kinds o' mean nasty ugly things. And I waked in and sat down and they gave
me a piece of paper, said, "Kid, see the phsychiatrist, room 604."
And I went up there, I said, "Shrink, I want to kill. I mean, I wanna, I
wanna kill. Kill. I wanna, I wanna see, I wanna see blood and gore and
guts and veins in my teeth. Eat dead burnt bodies. I mean kill, Kill,
KILL, KILL." And I started jumpin up and down yelling, "KILL, KILL," and
he started jumpin up and down with me and we was both jumping up and down
yelling, "KILL, KILL." And the sargent came over, pinned a medal on me,
sent me down the hall, said, "You're our boy."
Didn't feel too good about it.
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You don't win over the populace by urinating on their corpses ><
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On January 12 2012 10:12 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 09:58 Mohdoo wrote:Source: http://www.cnn.com/2012/01/11/us/video-marines-urinating/index.html?hpt=hp_t3Washington (CNN) -- A number of websites including TMZ and YouTube posted a video Wednesday showing four men dressed in U.S. Marine Corps combat gear urinating on the apparently dead bodies of three men sprawled on the ground in front of them.
One of the men says, "Have a great day, buddy." A voice asks, "You got it on the video?" to which another voice responds, "Yeah." Another jokes, "Golden, like a shower." The US government has already commented on it and are currently investigating who did this. If I may, I would like to do more than post the story, but also give my personal experience with a group of marines. A friend of my girlfriend was getting married and my girlfriend was one of the bride's maids. As such, there was a get together the day before the wedding at their home for the brides maids and best men etc. As the boyfriend of a bride's maid, I had the pleasure of coming along as well. The man who she was marrying was a marine, and all of his best men were also marines who served together in Iraq or Afghanistan, I can't recall which. When I arrived, they were playing Resident Evil 4, I think. They would joke about how they pretended that the zombies were Muslims, and how they absolutely loved killing Muslims. One of them specifically mentioned how it made them feel amazing to kill Muslims, followed by the rest agreeing and talking about it. I was just kinda sitting on a chair in the living room, as they all sat on a couch. I was speechless and couldn't really wrap my mind around the fact that they meant what they were saying and really felt that way. They continued talking about how they hated Muslims and how much they miss killing them in the war. I could tell that they were being serious and saw nothing wrong with what they were saying. I know its hard to really describe, but I could tell they were being quite serious. The bride and groom were very religious, and the other marines seemed to be the same. I know that some, far from all, Christians see Muslim faith as a competitor of sorts. Nevertheless, the most disgusting behavior I've ever had the displeasure of of watching. I don't like how just about any physically capable person can become a marine. I don't like that there are such low psychological and mental requirements. If someone is given, they need to be an outstanding person. The people shown in this video and the group of marines I described are certainly far from DECENT people. They bring shame to my country and I wish that there was more being done to prevent such people from serving. Note: I do not feel these in the video or the ones I met in person represent Marines or the US military as a whole. However, these people were issued guns and were put in situations where they had the potential to harm civilians. This is beyond unacceptable. It shouldn't be so easy to be a marine. There have been similar incidents in the past as well. 1. What is wrong with pissing on bodies? I mean, it's unprofessional, and rude, but is there anything really morally wrong with it? It's a peace of dead meat. The person isn't inside that body any more. 2. Why include the ridiculous anecdotal story about some marines joking around while playing a game? I don't see how this connects with the article at all. Furthermore, I have heard a thousand variations of this same story a thousand times, and so that makes me wonder why you put it here even more. 3. You don't have to be nice to be a solider. On the contrary, the military would probably prefer having the nasty guy to the nice guy. The nice guy is good, but when it comes time to blow some people up and kill some people, you don't want someone who has a problem with killing. You want someone that wants to kill, likes to kill, and will kill. 4. It isn't easy being a soldier. We need soldiers though, and they don't need to be great people. They need to be killers. Killers, often, are not the greatest people. There aren't enough nice people who are also killers to fill the shoes that we need. Life sucks, move on.
I generally agree with you, although i would probably phrase what you said in a more... diplomatic way. I do, however, take issue with your first statement.
Everything is wrong with pissing on bodies. First of all, unprofessional and rude, some might say, is by itself morally wrong. Furthermore, even if you aren't religious, most people believe that the body is sacred in some way. Would you care if a bunch of men decided to piss a relative's body? I'm not religious but I would still be very offended. Morals are defined by society and the vast majority of our society would say that pissing on a dead body is morally wrong.
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On January 12 2012 10:15 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 10:13 Leaky wrote:On January 12 2012 10:05 Swaddled wrote:
You also need to take into account the fact that war is life or death and that perhaps these marines were changed during combat. Also Muslims, although wrong, can be used as a blanket term for the people they were fighting. I highly doubt they missed killing women and children of the Muslim faith. You can see where that would be mininterpretted. Also, have you been to war? If not, do not be so quick to judge those who protect our nation's interests. None of that matters. When a person can take pleasure in ending the life of another, they are truly sadistic. I also don't agree with the statement that our armed forces are currently "protecting our nation's interests." Current U.S. foreign policy in regards to countries in the Middle East is almost imperialistic in nature, they're not protecting anyone. You've probably never killed anyone, or had much discussion with those who have. Let's just say, ignorance is bliss. Me? I think jumping out of a plane would be scarier than shit. Someone else? The adrenaline rush makes them love it. Me? I think shooting someone in the face while in a fire-fight would be scarier than shit. Someone else? The adrenaline rush makes them love it. So you know, try not being so black and white with your judgments...
What are these arguments about? You are not sadistic if you love shooting someone in the face?
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On January 12 2012 10:19 Elroi wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 10:05 Swaddled wrote:
Also, have you been to war? If not, do not be so quick to judge those who protect our nation's interests. lol! "Our nation's interest" - that's just murder and theft if you ask me.
exactly.
Murder and theft is WRONG, criminals are the worst people!.... except if its under the guise of "war". Extroverted crimes are A O.K. Isn't that the same thing a certain WW2 upstart country thought? Let's not split hairs. We have laws and rules to protect each other from ourselves, while trying to exploit others in the same way. I've read Plato's republic. There must be a sense iof justice even among thieves and murderers, because if they had none they would turn on each other. But taking that line of thought, there can be a city or even a country full of completely just thieves and murderers, who do not harm their own or anyone associated, but take the same measures against "stranger" cities and countries.
If you're in, you're ok to show justice, if you're not, we'll take your shit and kill you and cause you to die from the hands of others, because we want to step over your bodies to keep our society "flowing".
lets be real.
On January 12 2012 10:23 shabby wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 10:15 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:On January 12 2012 10:13 Leaky wrote:On January 12 2012 10:05 Swaddled wrote:
You also need to take into account the fact that war is life or death and that perhaps these marines were changed during combat. Also Muslims, although wrong, can be used as a blanket term for the people they were fighting. I highly doubt they missed killing women and children of the Muslim faith. You can see where that would be mininterpretted. Also, have you been to war? If not, do not be so quick to judge those who protect our nation's interests. None of that matters. When a person can take pleasure in ending the life of another, they are truly sadistic. I also don't agree with the statement that our armed forces are currently "protecting our nation's interests." Current U.S. foreign policy in regards to countries in the Middle East is almost imperialistic in nature, they're not protecting anyone. You've probably never killed anyone, or had much discussion with those who have. Let's just say, ignorance is bliss. Me? I think jumping out of a plane would be scarier than shit. Someone else? The adrenaline rush makes them love it. Me? I think shooting someone in the face while in a fire-fight would be scarier than shit. Someone else? The adrenaline rush makes them love it. So you know, try not being so black and white with your judgments... What are these arguments about? You are not sadistic if you love shooting someone in the face?
God, the person you quoted is sickening, shabby. And this is why, By Lao Tzu, by Buddhism, by Christianity (the good kind, which was likely influenced by easten philosophy), wars do NOT work. They spread hate and evil, mostly because people who "get an adrenaline rush and thrill from killing' are the very ones who WANT to go to war, not just in the capital but on the actual field of battle with their m16s. You're SENDING sociopathic killers whenever you go to war. There's actually a psychology reason NOT to war for this very reason, apart from all the mystical talk about increasing hatred and causing more pain that all the religions, which are previously mentioned,give as reasons not to go to war.
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On January 12 2012 10:12 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 09:58 Mohdoo wrote:Source: http://www.cnn.com/2012/01/11/us/video-marines-urinating/index.html?hpt=hp_t3Washington (CNN) -- A number of websites including TMZ and YouTube posted a video Wednesday showing four men dressed in U.S. Marine Corps combat gear urinating on the apparently dead bodies of three men sprawled on the ground in front of them.
One of the men says, "Have a great day, buddy." A voice asks, "You got it on the video?" to which another voice responds, "Yeah." Another jokes, "Golden, like a shower." The US government has already commented on it and are currently investigating who did this. If I may, I would like to do more than post the story, but also give my personal experience with a group of marines. A friend of my girlfriend was getting married and my girlfriend was one of the bride's maids. As such, there was a get together the day before the wedding at their home for the brides maids and best men etc. As the boyfriend of a bride's maid, I had the pleasure of coming along as well. The man who she was marrying was a marine, and all of his best men were also marines who served together in Iraq or Afghanistan, I can't recall which. When I arrived, they were playing Resident Evil 4, I think. They would joke about how they pretended that the zombies were Muslims, and how they absolutely loved killing Muslims. One of them specifically mentioned how it made them feel amazing to kill Muslims, followed by the rest agreeing and talking about it. I was just kinda sitting on a chair in the living room, as they all sat on a couch. I was speechless and couldn't really wrap my mind around the fact that they meant what they were saying and really felt that way. They continued talking about how they hated Muslims and how much they miss killing them in the war. I could tell that they were being serious and saw nothing wrong with what they were saying. I know its hard to really describe, but I could tell they were being quite serious. The bride and groom were very religious, and the other marines seemed to be the same. I know that some, far from all, Christians see Muslim faith as a competitor of sorts. Nevertheless, the most disgusting behavior I've ever had the displeasure of of watching. I don't like how just about any physically capable person can become a marine. I don't like that there are such low psychological and mental requirements. If someone is given, they need to be an outstanding person. The people shown in this video and the group of marines I described are certainly far from DECENT people. They bring shame to my country and I wish that there was more being done to prevent such people from serving. Note: I do not feel these in the video or the ones I met in person represent Marines or the US military as a whole. However, these people were issued guns and were put in situations where they had the potential to harm civilians. This is beyond unacceptable. It shouldn't be so easy to be a marine. There have been similar incidents in the past as well. 1. What is wrong with pissing on bodies? I mean, it's unprofessional, and rude, but is there anything really morally wrong with it? It's a peace of dead meat. The person isn't inside that body any more. 2. Why include the ridiculous anecdotal story about some marines joking around while playing a game? I don't see how this connects with the article at all. Furthermore, I have heard a thousand variations of this same story a thousand times, and so that makes me wonder why you put it here even more. 3. You don't have to be nice to be a solider. On the contrary, the military would probably prefer having the nasty guy to the nice guy. The nice guy is good, but when it comes time to blow some people up and kill some people, you don't want someone who has a problem with killing. You want someone that wants to kill, likes to kill, and will kill. 4. It isn't easy being a soldier. We need soldiers though, and they don't need to be great people. They need to be killers. Killers, often, are not the greatest people. There aren't enough nice people who are also killers to fill the shoes that we need. Life sucks, move on.
Typed from the comfort of your home, no doubt.
1) Would you be okay with people pissing on your dead relatives bodies? They're just pieces of meat anyway right?
2) Let's say for example that you're of an asian background. Would you be okay with it if those guys were talking about killing asians?
3) This kind of logic sounds like something that's been brought up by hollywood movies.
4) Look at no.3.
Way to post a ignorant and one-sided post buddy.
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On January 12 2012 10:12 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:
3. You don't have to be nice to be a solider. On the contrary, the military would probably prefer having the nasty guy to the nice guy. The nice guy is good, but when it comes time to blow some people up and kill some people, you don't want someone who has a problem with killing. You want someone that wants to kill, likes to kill, and will kill.
This is an excellent way to make sure everyone in the occupied country hates your guts, takes up arms, and overthrows the government you leave behind.
It might, just might, piss off people in other countries as well.
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There's a lot worse things done in war than this, but people are going to make a big deal out of it because it's America and it's the Marines.
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On January 12 2012 10:23 shabby wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 10:15 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:On January 12 2012 10:13 Leaky wrote:On January 12 2012 10:05 Swaddled wrote:
You also need to take into account the fact that war is life or death and that perhaps these marines were changed during combat. Also Muslims, although wrong, can be used as a blanket term for the people they were fighting. I highly doubt they missed killing women and children of the Muslim faith. You can see where that would be mininterpretted. Also, have you been to war? If not, do not be so quick to judge those who protect our nation's interests. None of that matters. When a person can take pleasure in ending the life of another, they are truly sadistic. I also don't agree with the statement that our armed forces are currently "protecting our nation's interests." Current U.S. foreign policy in regards to countries in the Middle East is almost imperialistic in nature, they're not protecting anyone. You've probably never killed anyone, or had much discussion with those who have. Let's just say, ignorance is bliss. Me? I think jumping out of a plane would be scarier than shit. Someone else? The adrenaline rush makes them love it. Me? I think shooting someone in the face while in a fire-fight would be scarier than shit. Someone else? The adrenaline rush makes them love it. So you know, try not being so black and white with your judgments... What are these arguments about? You are not sadistic if you love shooting someone in the face?
The argument is about people assuming things when they have no idea what they are talking about. A fire-fight is one of the most intense things a person can ever experience. Your adrenaline is fucking jacked. You will feel more alive than you ever have. A bunch of people are shooting at you. Shooting hot metal at ridiculously high speeds so that they can kill you. But you kill them first. Your years of training and your skill and your brute fucking strength means you don't die but they do. They tried to kill you, but you won.
I can see how someone could grow to love that feeling. And no, you don't have to a sadist.
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Christians do not view Muslims as competitors " of sorts". Its the other way around. You just end up hearing about the "christian" extremists in the news.
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On January 12 2012 10:12 Teoman wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 10:00 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
These specific men are jerks (although not as detestable as the marines who threw the puppy over the cliff).
Marines, in general, are honorable men. Soldiers in general, are brainwashed to imorality and mass murder. As OPs example shows. I find the entire military system (at least where i come from) to be a childish, money sink.
Except for the fact that they are willing to put themselves in harms way for the rights of the very people cursing their names?
Sounds pretty honorable to me.
There are a shit ton more people fighting for freedom in the army than those who fight to fight.
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On January 12 2012 10:24 Arterial wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 10:12 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:On January 12 2012 09:58 Mohdoo wrote:Source: http://www.cnn.com/2012/01/11/us/video-marines-urinating/index.html?hpt=hp_t3Washington (CNN) -- A number of websites including TMZ and YouTube posted a video Wednesday showing four men dressed in U.S. Marine Corps combat gear urinating on the apparently dead bodies of three men sprawled on the ground in front of them.
One of the men says, "Have a great day, buddy." A voice asks, "You got it on the video?" to which another voice responds, "Yeah." Another jokes, "Golden, like a shower." The US government has already commented on it and are currently investigating who did this. If I may, I would like to do more than post the story, but also give my personal experience with a group of marines. A friend of my girlfriend was getting married and my girlfriend was one of the bride's maids. As such, there was a get together the day before the wedding at their home for the brides maids and best men etc. As the boyfriend of a bride's maid, I had the pleasure of coming along as well. The man who she was marrying was a marine, and all of his best men were also marines who served together in Iraq or Afghanistan, I can't recall which. When I arrived, they were playing Resident Evil 4, I think. They would joke about how they pretended that the zombies were Muslims, and how they absolutely loved killing Muslims. One of them specifically mentioned how it made them feel amazing to kill Muslims, followed by the rest agreeing and talking about it. I was just kinda sitting on a chair in the living room, as they all sat on a couch. I was speechless and couldn't really wrap my mind around the fact that they meant what they were saying and really felt that way. They continued talking about how they hated Muslims and how much they miss killing them in the war. I could tell that they were being serious and saw nothing wrong with what they were saying. I know its hard to really describe, but I could tell they were being quite serious. The bride and groom were very religious, and the other marines seemed to be the same. I know that some, far from all, Christians see Muslim faith as a competitor of sorts. Nevertheless, the most disgusting behavior I've ever had the displeasure of of watching. I don't like how just about any physically capable person can become a marine. I don't like that there are such low psychological and mental requirements. If someone is given, they need to be an outstanding person. The people shown in this video and the group of marines I described are certainly far from DECENT people. They bring shame to my country and I wish that there was more being done to prevent such people from serving. Note: I do not feel these in the video or the ones I met in person represent Marines or the US military as a whole. However, these people were issued guns and were put in situations where they had the potential to harm civilians. This is beyond unacceptable. It shouldn't be so easy to be a marine. There have been similar incidents in the past as well. 1. What is wrong with pissing on bodies? I mean, it's unprofessional, and rude, but is there anything really morally wrong with it? It's a peace of dead meat. The person isn't inside that body any more. 2. Why include the ridiculous anecdotal story about some marines joking around while playing a game? I don't see how this connects with the article at all. Furthermore, I have heard a thousand variations of this same story a thousand times, and so that makes me wonder why you put it here even more. 3. You don't have to be nice to be a solider. On the contrary, the military would probably prefer having the nasty guy to the nice guy. The nice guy is good, but when it comes time to blow some people up and kill some people, you don't want someone who has a problem with killing. You want someone that wants to kill, likes to kill, and will kill. 4. It isn't easy being a soldier. We need soldiers though, and they don't need to be great people. They need to be killers. Killers, often, are not the greatest people. There aren't enough nice people who are also killers to fill the shoes that we need. Life sucks, move on. Typed from the comfort of your home, no doubt. 1) Would you be okay with people pissing on your dead relatives bodies? They're just pieces of meat anyway right? 2) Let's say for example that you're of an asian background. Would you be okay with it if those guys were talking about killing asians? 3) This kind of logic sounds like something that's been brought up by hollywood movies. 4) Look at no.3. Way to post a ignorant and one-sided post buddy.
What does me being at home have to do with anything?
1. My dead relatives are worm food right now. They are probably currently rotting. I don't see how rotting is better than being pissed on. I would laugh in someones face if they told me they pissed on my dead relatives body. It's a body. No one is being hurt by that.
2. I don't believe the OP's story. I think he made it up on the spot. But even if it is true, so what? I wasn't there so I can't comment. Probably they were joking.
3. IDK what to tell you. Go join the military.
4. So you think the military isn't about killing?
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On January 12 2012 09:58 Mohdoo wrote:Source: http://www.cnn.com/2012/01/11/us/video-marines-urinating/index.html?hpt=hp_t3Show nested quote +Washington (CNN) -- A number of websites including TMZ and YouTube posted a video Wednesday showing four men dressed in U.S. Marine Corps combat gear urinating on the apparently dead bodies of three men sprawled on the ground in front of them.
One of the men says, "Have a great day, buddy." A voice asks, "You got it on the video?" to which another voice responds, "Yeah." Another jokes, "Golden, like a shower." The US government has already commented on it and are currently investigating who did this. If I may, I would like to do more than post the story, but also give my personal experience with a group of marines. A friend of my girlfriend was getting married and my girlfriend was one of the bride's maids. As such, there was a get together the day before the wedding at their home for the brides maids and best men etc. As the boyfriend of a bride's maid, I had the pleasure of coming along as well. The man who she was marrying was a marine, and all of his best men were also marines who served together in Iraq or Afghanistan, I can't recall which. When I arrived, they were playing Resident Evil 4, I think. They would joke about how they pretended that the zombies were Muslims, and how they absolutely loved killing Muslims. One of them specifically mentioned how it made them feel amazing to kill Muslims, followed by the rest agreeing and talking about it. I was just kinda sitting on a chair in the living room, as they all sat on a couch. I was speechless and couldn't really wrap my mind around the fact that they meant what they were saying and really felt that way. They continued talking about how they hated Muslims and how much they miss killing them in the war. I could tell that they were being serious and saw nothing wrong with what they were saying. I know its hard to really describe, but I could tell they were being quite serious. The bride and groom were very religious, and the other marines seemed to be the same. I know that some, far from all, Christians see Muslim faith as a competitor of sorts. Nevertheless, the most disgusting behavior I've ever had the displeasure of of watching. I don't like how just about any physically capable person can become a marine. I don't like that there are such low psychological and mental requirements. If someone is given, they need to be an outstanding person. The people shown in this video and the group of marines I described are certainly far from DECENT people. They bring shame to my country and I wish that there was more being done to prevent such people from serving. Note: I do not feel these in the video or the ones I met in person represent Marines or the US military as a whole. However, these people were issued guns and were put in situations where they had the potential to harm civilians. This is beyond unacceptable. It shouldn't be so easy to be a marine. There have been similar incidents in the past as well.
you knowe whats funny, this is deezer/CombatEX mentality, where they say horrible things, like deezer to destiny, for instance, and feel nothing wrong about saying it, or any of their actions. The reason children get spanked for this behavior is because we're assumed to believe taht this is unacceptable behavior, but you'll notice it's exactly what the government needs in a soldier; people without conscience or remorse.
If we think Deezer and C-ex are cancers to the community, these soldiers would rank up there too. We dont forgive combat-ex because he does good things, because the idea behind him and forgiveness is that you cant just do some good things to be allowed or to have us accept the horrible things you do. I wonder why this rule does not hold true for Government SOldiers/Police. Trust and respect have to be earned, don't they?
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On January 12 2012 10:27 Flonomenalz wrote:
There's a lot worse things done in war than this, but people are going to make a big deal out of it because it's America and it's the Marines.
It's usually in a nation's best interest to look like the good guys in the eyes of its citizens and the world during military actions, especially when it claims to be. It is a big deal.
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On January 12 2012 10:30 Fealthas wrote:
Christians do not view Muslims as competitors " of sorts". Its the other way around. You just end up hearing about the "christian" extremists in the news.
Just goes to show you know nothing about Islam at all. Islam is far more encompassing and supprotive of other religions than Christianity is. (On average at least)
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that line of work inevitably attracts psycho's...
i knew a guy who's life ambition was to be in the army (he was on medical leave after breaking his leg or something at the time), he had nazi tattoo's... in particular he had a combat 18 tattoo on the side of his head (skinhead). he seemed pretty normal except the racist comment at every opportunity...
of course, the majority of armed forces soldiers are professional. but it really hurts their image when you have these wacko's signing up.
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I dont really understand what people want from those guys, on 1 hand you want them to witness all the brutal stuff that comes with war and on the other hand you want them to be completely unaffected by that? It's NOT going to happen like that. Truth is those guys end up F'ed in the head. The STRONGEST of people will with enough war stuff going on.
Is it right? No, Is it wrong? well who the hell are we to judge? These guys that they're urinating on could be some guys that killed their best friends or harmed civilians.. its impossible to tell. Can't just take what the media says and go OH THATS TERRIBLE! Put yourself in those persons shoes for a min and maybe it wont completely make sense but somewhat make sense.
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On January 12 2012 10:12 Teoman wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 10:00 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
These specific men are jerks (although not as detestable as the marines who threw the puppy over the cliff).
Marines, in general, are honorable men. Soldiers in general, are brainwashed to imorality and mass murder. As OPs example shows. I find the entire military system (at least where i come from) to be a childish, money sink.
For every 1 soldier you find pissing on a dead body, you can find a thousand more doing something honorable.
To say that they're trained to be "imoral" [sic] is just wrong. They're trained to overcome the horrors of battle, sure, but that doesn't mean they lose their morality.
If a marine pisses on a dead body, he was the type of guy who was (figuratively) pissing on dead bodies before he started fighting for our country. Don't generalize all military men as immoral jerks just because a few are.
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I honestly don't care, not after the stories I heard from my friend who served there and took the time to tell me how it actually is. War is another world is all I can say.
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On January 12 2012 10:32 1Eris1 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 10:30 Fealthas wrote:
Christians do not view Muslims as competitors " of sorts". Its the other way around. You just end up hearing about the "christian" extremists in the news. Just goes to show you know nothing about Islam at all. Islam is far more encompassing and supprotive of other religions than Christianity is. (On average at least)
What do you mean by "on average"? That seems to be whatever you're justifying this with.
Surely, most moderate Christians and Muslims accept and support the existence of multiple religions... and just the same, many fundamentalists on both sides don't.
There are more moderates than fundamentalists, so if that's what you mean by "on average", then okay. I just feel you're being a bit ambiguous.
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On January 12 2012 10:34 zVooky wrote:
I dont really understand what people want from those guys, on 1 hand you want them to witness all the brutal stuff that comes with war and on the other hand you want them to be completely unaffected by that? It's NOT going to happen like that. Truth is those guys end up F'ed in the head. The STRONGEST of people will with enough war stuff going on.
Is it right? No, Is it wrong? well who the hell are we to judge? These guys that they're urinating on could be some guys that killed their best friends or harmed civilians.. its impossible to tell. Can't just take what the media says and go OH THATS TERRIBLE! Put yourself in those persons shoes for a min and maybe it wont completely make sense but somewhat make sense.
its called "not being psychologically fit to conduct warfare". Either they have the mentality of sociopathic monsters, or they gain one through warfare.
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On January 12 2012 10:31 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 10:24 Arterial wrote:On January 12 2012 10:12 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:On January 12 2012 09:58 Mohdoo wrote:Source: http://www.cnn.com/2012/01/11/us/video-marines-urinating/index.html?hpt=hp_t3Washington (CNN) -- A number of websites including TMZ and YouTube posted a video Wednesday showing four men dressed in U.S. Marine Corps combat gear urinating on the apparently dead bodies of three men sprawled on the ground in front of them.
One of the men says, "Have a great day, buddy." A voice asks, "You got it on the video?" to which another voice responds, "Yeah." Another jokes, "Golden, like a shower." The US government has already commented on it and are currently investigating who did this. If I may, I would like to do more than post the story, but also give my personal experience with a group of marines. A friend of my girlfriend was getting married and my girlfriend was one of the bride's maids. As such, there was a get together the day before the wedding at their home for the brides maids and best men etc. As the boyfriend of a bride's maid, I had the pleasure of coming along as well. The man who she was marrying was a marine, and all of his best men were also marines who served together in Iraq or Afghanistan, I can't recall which. When I arrived, they were playing Resident Evil 4, I think. They would joke about how they pretended that the zombies were Muslims, and how they absolutely loved killing Muslims. One of them specifically mentioned how it made them feel amazing to kill Muslims, followed by the rest agreeing and talking about it. I was just kinda sitting on a chair in the living room, as they all sat on a couch. I was speechless and couldn't really wrap my mind around the fact that they meant what they were saying and really felt that way. They continued talking about how they hated Muslims and how much they miss killing them in the war. I could tell that they were being serious and saw nothing wrong with what they were saying. I know its hard to really describe, but I could tell they were being quite serious. The bride and groom were very religious, and the other marines seemed to be the same. I know that some, far from all, Christians see Muslim faith as a competitor of sorts. Nevertheless, the most disgusting behavior I've ever had the displeasure of of watching. I don't like how just about any physically capable person can become a marine. I don't like that there are such low psychological and mental requirements. If someone is given, they need to be an outstanding person. The people shown in this video and the group of marines I described are certainly far from DECENT people. They bring shame to my country and I wish that there was more being done to prevent such people from serving. Note: I do not feel these in the video or the ones I met in person represent Marines or the US military as a whole. However, these people were issued guns and were put in situations where they had the potential to harm civilians. This is beyond unacceptable. It shouldn't be so easy to be a marine. There have been similar incidents in the past as well. 1. What is wrong with pissing on bodies? I mean, it's unprofessional, and rude, but is there anything really morally wrong with it? It's a peace of dead meat. The person isn't inside that body any more. 2. Why include the ridiculous anecdotal story about some marines joking around while playing a game? I don't see how this connects with the article at all. Furthermore, I have heard a thousand variations of this same story a thousand times, and so that makes me wonder why you put it here even more. 3. You don't have to be nice to be a solider. On the contrary, the military would probably prefer having the nasty guy to the nice guy. The nice guy is good, but when it comes time to blow some people up and kill some people, you don't want someone who has a problem with killing. You want someone that wants to kill, likes to kill, and will kill. 4. It isn't easy being a soldier. We need soldiers though, and they don't need to be great people. They need to be killers. Killers, often, are not the greatest people. There aren't enough nice people who are also killers to fill the shoes that we need. Life sucks, move on. Typed from the comfort of your home, no doubt. 1) Would you be okay with people pissing on your dead relatives bodies? They're just pieces of meat anyway right? 2) Let's say for example that you're of an asian background. Would you be okay with it if those guys were talking about killing asians? 3) This kind of logic sounds like something that's been brought up by hollywood movies. 4) Look at no.3. Way to post a ignorant and one-sided post buddy. What does me being at home have to do with anything? 1. My dead relatives are worm food right now. They are probably currently rotting. I don't see how rotting is better than being pissed on. I would laugh in someones face if they told me they pissed on my dead relatives body. It's a body. No one is being hurt by that.
And with that, the argument is over. Thanks for playing.
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On January 12 2012 10:21 FFGenerations wrote:
They got a building down New York City, it's called Whitehall Street,
where you walk in, you get injected, inspected, detected, infected,
neglected and selected. I went down to get my physical examination one
day, and I walked in, I sat down, got good and drunk the night before, so
I looked and felt my best when I went in that morning. `Cause I wanted to
look like the all-American kid from New York City, man I wanted, I wanted
to feel like the all-, I wanted to be the all American kid from New York,
and I walked in, sat down, I was hung down, brung down, hung up, and all
kinds o' mean nasty ugly things. And I waked in and sat down and they gave
me a piece of paper, said, "Kid, see the phsychiatrist, room 604."
And I went up there, I said, "Shrink, I want to kill. I mean, I wanna, I
wanna kill. Kill. I wanna, I wanna see, I wanna see blood and gore and
guts and veins in my teeth. Eat dead burnt bodies. I mean kill, Kill,
KILL, KILL." And I started jumpin up and down yelling, "KILL, KILL," and
he started jumpin up and down with me and we was both jumping up and down
yelling, "KILL, KILL." And the sargent came over, pinned a medal on me,
sent me down the hall, said, "You're our boy."
Didn't feel too good about it.
You can get anything you want at Alice's Restaurant~
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On January 12 2012 10:40 Arterial wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 10:31 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:On January 12 2012 10:24 Arterial wrote:On January 12 2012 10:12 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:On January 12 2012 09:58 Mohdoo wrote:Source: http://www.cnn.com/2012/01/11/us/video-marines-urinating/index.html?hpt=hp_t3Washington (CNN) -- A number of websites including TMZ and YouTube posted a video Wednesday showing four men dressed in U.S. Marine Corps combat gear urinating on the apparently dead bodies of three men sprawled on the ground in front of them.
One of the men says, "Have a great day, buddy." A voice asks, "You got it on the video?" to which another voice responds, "Yeah." Another jokes, "Golden, like a shower." The US government has already commented on it and are currently investigating who did this. If I may, I would like to do more than post the story, but also give my personal experience with a group of marines. A friend of my girlfriend was getting married and my girlfriend was one of the bride's maids. As such, there was a get together the day before the wedding at their home for the brides maids and best men etc. As the boyfriend of a bride's maid, I had the pleasure of coming along as well. The man who she was marrying was a marine, and all of his best men were also marines who served together in Iraq or Afghanistan, I can't recall which. When I arrived, they were playing Resident Evil 4, I think. They would joke about how they pretended that the zombies were Muslims, and how they absolutely loved killing Muslims. One of them specifically mentioned how it made them feel amazing to kill Muslims, followed by the rest agreeing and talking about it. I was just kinda sitting on a chair in the living room, as they all sat on a couch. I was speechless and couldn't really wrap my mind around the fact that they meant what they were saying and really felt that way. They continued talking about how they hated Muslims and how much they miss killing them in the war. I could tell that they were being serious and saw nothing wrong with what they were saying. I know its hard to really describe, but I could tell they were being quite serious. The bride and groom were very religious, and the other marines seemed to be the same. I know that some, far from all, Christians see Muslim faith as a competitor of sorts. Nevertheless, the most disgusting behavior I've ever had the displeasure of of watching. I don't like how just about any physically capable person can become a marine. I don't like that there are such low psychological and mental requirements. If someone is given, they need to be an outstanding person. The people shown in this video and the group of marines I described are certainly far from DECENT people. They bring shame to my country and I wish that there was more being done to prevent such people from serving. Note: I do not feel these in the video or the ones I met in person represent Marines or the US military as a whole. However, these people were issued guns and were put in situations where they had the potential to harm civilians. This is beyond unacceptable. It shouldn't be so easy to be a marine. There have been similar incidents in the past as well. 1. What is wrong with pissing on bodies? I mean, it's unprofessional, and rude, but is there anything really morally wrong with it? It's a peace of dead meat. The person isn't inside that body any more. 2. Why include the ridiculous anecdotal story about some marines joking around while playing a game? I don't see how this connects with the article at all. Furthermore, I have heard a thousand variations of this same story a thousand times, and so that makes me wonder why you put it here even more. 3. You don't have to be nice to be a solider. On the contrary, the military would probably prefer having the nasty guy to the nice guy. The nice guy is good, but when it comes time to blow some people up and kill some people, you don't want someone who has a problem with killing. You want someone that wants to kill, likes to kill, and will kill. 4. It isn't easy being a soldier. We need soldiers though, and they don't need to be great people. They need to be killers. Killers, often, are not the greatest people. There aren't enough nice people who are also killers to fill the shoes that we need. Life sucks, move on. Typed from the comfort of your home, no doubt. 1) Would you be okay with people pissing on your dead relatives bodies? They're just pieces of meat anyway right? 2) Let's say for example that you're of an asian background. Would you be okay with it if those guys were talking about killing asians? 3) This kind of logic sounds like something that's been brought up by hollywood movies. 4) Look at no.3. Way to post a ignorant and one-sided post buddy. What does me being at home have to do with anything? 1. My dead relatives are worm food right now. They are probably currently rotting. I don't see how rotting is better than being pissed on. I would laugh in someones face if they told me they pissed on my dead relatives body. It's a body. No one is being hurt by that. And with that, the argument is over. Thanks for playing.
Why even bother posting then? I don't get the attitude...
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On January 12 2012 10:35 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 10:12 Teoman wrote:On January 12 2012 10:00 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
These specific men are jerks (although not as detestable as the marines who threw the puppy over the cliff).
Marines, in general, are honorable men. Soldiers in general, are brainwashed to imorality and mass murder. As OPs example shows. I find the entire military system (at least where i come from) to be a childish, money sink. For every 1 soldier you find pissing on a dead body, you can find a thousand more doing something honorable. To say that they're trained to be "imoral" [sic] is just wrong. They're trained to overcome the horrors of battle, sure, but that doesn't mean they lose their morality. If a marine pisses on a dead body, he was the type of guy who was (figuratively) pissing on dead bodies before he started fighting for our country. Don't generalize all military men as immoral jerks just because a few are.
With our society nowadays... ehh... I'd say morality on average is pretty shitty, especially when we're talking about the lower rungs of people in this regard.
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On January 12 2012 10:38 Humanfails wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 10:34 zVooky wrote:
I dont really understand what people want from those guys, on 1 hand you want them to witness all the brutal stuff that comes with war and on the other hand you want them to be completely unaffected by that? It's NOT going to happen like that. Truth is those guys end up F'ed in the head. The STRONGEST of people will with enough war stuff going on.
Is it right? No, Is it wrong? well who the hell are we to judge? These guys that they're urinating on could be some guys that killed their best friends or harmed civilians.. its impossible to tell. Can't just take what the media says and go OH THATS TERRIBLE! Put yourself in those persons shoes for a min and maybe it wont completely make sense but somewhat make sense. its called "not being psychologically fit to conduct warfare". Either they have the mentality of sociopathic monsters, or they gain one through warfare.
Yes but its the guys they bash as "monsters" that protect the country to begin with and give it freedom. Look at some of the stories of stonings and such from other countries, ever wonder why that doesn't happen in the US like it does else where? Sorry but freedom is won with wars and these people you call monsters. I would never want to be put in the situation they are and thus I will never condemn their actions as I know not what these people have gone through.
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I don't like how just about any physically capable person can become a marine. I don't like that there are such low psychological and mental requirements. If someone is given, they need to be an outstanding person. The people shown in this video and the group of marines I described are certainly far from DECENT people. They bring shame to my country and I wish that there was more being done to prevent such people from serving. Yo, just wanted to play devils advocate here and defend them. It's pretty easy to come down on their actions (its created a media shitstorm for obvious reasons, and I bet they will be caught since its already been narrowed to sniper teams) and judge them as a result. Disrespecting the dead goes against just about every culture. I think its short-sighted and naive to say that they are terrible people though. War can mess with people and their mental states in serious ways. Maybe they were upstanding and moral before and have since changed after stress and violence like seeing friends killed in front of them.
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On January 12 2012 10:41 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 10:35 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On January 12 2012 10:12 Teoman wrote:On January 12 2012 10:00 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
These specific men are jerks (although not as detestable as the marines who threw the puppy over the cliff).
Marines, in general, are honorable men. Soldiers in general, are brainwashed to imorality and mass murder. As OPs example shows. I find the entire military system (at least where i come from) to be a childish, money sink. For every 1 soldier you find pissing on a dead body, you can find a thousand more doing something honorable. To say that they're trained to be "imoral" [sic] is just wrong. They're trained to overcome the horrors of battle, sure, but that doesn't mean they lose their morality. If a marine pisses on a dead body, he was the type of guy who was (figuratively) pissing on dead bodies before he started fighting for our country. Don't generalize all military men as immoral jerks just because a few are. With our society nowadays... ehh... I'd say morality on average is pretty shitty, especially when we're talking about the lower rungs of people in this regard.
I'm not saying that everyone gives away money and does selfless charity work every week, but I'd think that most people (especially military personnel, who are held up to a higher standard) don't commit tremendously heinous or immoral deeds (rather subjective, but take that however you want it- like throwing dogs off cliffs or desecrating dead bodies).
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I'm part of the military myself (Navy) and I know quite a few marines and this does not surprise me at all LOL. The dude definitely just did this so he'd have another story to tell his unit haha, I hope he doesn't get in any trouble. Some people get so sensitive about shit like this though it's crazy.
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Soldiers in general, are brainwashed to imorality and mass murder. As OPs example shows.
I find the entire military system (at least where i come from) to be a childish, money sink.
As somebody who has nearly been shot out of the sky, with a father who was shot at in the first gulf war, and with a son who is about to enter the Air Force Academy, I find this absolutely extraordinarily offensive.
Don't try and judge soldiers like civilians. You have no idea what the marines and soldiers on the ground go through, and what they have to suffer through every day. If you aren't haunted nightly by the memories of the faces of people that you've bombed, shot, or had shot, then judge lightly. The vast majority of soldiers, airmen, sailors, and marines fight because they believe in something. We aren't bred for mass murder.
Have some more respect (especially those of you in the United States) please. I'm not trying to condone the actions of the people in the OP (I think it is despicable), but please lump them in with the minority, and not the vast majority.
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Of course these idiots were dumb enough to make a video.
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On January 12 2012 10:43 calgar wrote:Show nested quote +I don't like how just about any physically capable person can become a marine. I don't like that there are such low psychological and mental requirements. If someone is given, they need to be an outstanding person. The people shown in this video and the group of marines I described are certainly far from DECENT people. They bring shame to my country and I wish that there was more being done to prevent such people from serving. Yo, just wanted to play devils advocate here and defend them. It's pretty easy to come down on their actions (its created a media shitstorm for obvious reasons, and I bet they will be caught since its already been narrowed to sniper teams) and judge them as a result. Disrespecting the dead goes against just about every culture. I think its short-sighted and naive to say that they are terrible people though. War can mess with people and their mental states in serious ways. Maybe they were upstanding and moral before and have since changed after stress and violence like seeing friends killed in front of them.
Then they weren't fit for duty. My point in the OP is that soldiers who are not fit for duty are continuing to serve. I don't care who they used to be. People in their situation should be admitted to a psychiatric facility and dealt with, just as any other person would. There need to be stricter standards for when someone is considered good enough to represent our country as a solider.
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On January 12 2012 10:00 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
These specific men are jerks (although not as detestable as the marines who threw the puppy over the cliff).
Marines, in general, are honorable men.
Funny because many of the people from my High School that went into the Army/Marines were fucking assholes.
On January 12 2012 10:52 Alryk wrote:
Don't try and judge soldiers like civilians. You have no idea what the marines and soldiers on the ground go through, and what they have to suffer through every day. If you aren't haunted nightly by the memories of the faces of people that you've bombed, shot, or had shot, then judge lightly. The vast majority of soldiers, airmen, sailors, and marines fight because they believe in something. We aren't bred for mass murder.
Have some more respect (especially those of you in the United States) please. I'm not trying to condone the actions of the people in the OP (I think it is despicable), but please lump them in with the minority, and not the vast majority.
So soldiers are better than civilians? I personally don't look up to any soldiers fighting in the current middle eastern wars because they aren't actually fighting for my freedom. We actually haven't had a fight for our freedom in ages. Many soldiers have the same problem cops do - they think they are higher up than civilians. It doesn't work that way sorry.
Many people actually enjoy being in the army etc because they like guns, and get to shoot people.
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On January 12 2012 10:42 zVooky wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 10:38 Humanfails wrote:On January 12 2012 10:34 zVooky wrote:
I dont really understand what people want from those guys, on 1 hand you want them to witness all the brutal stuff that comes with war and on the other hand you want them to be completely unaffected by that? It's NOT going to happen like that. Truth is those guys end up F'ed in the head. The STRONGEST of people will with enough war stuff going on.
Is it right? No, Is it wrong? well who the hell are we to judge? These guys that they're urinating on could be some guys that killed their best friends or harmed civilians.. its impossible to tell. Can't just take what the media says and go OH THATS TERRIBLE! Put yourself in those persons shoes for a min and maybe it wont completely make sense but somewhat make sense. its called "not being psychologically fit to conduct warfare". Either they have the mentality of sociopathic monsters, or they gain one through warfare. Yes but its the guys they bash as "monsters" that protect the country to begin with and give it freedom. Look at some of the stories of stonings and such from other countries, ever wonder why that doesn't happen in the US like it does else where? Sorry but freedom is won with wars and these people you call monsters. I would never want to be put in the situation they are and thus I will never condemn their actions as I know not what these people have gone through.
Pretty sure soldiers have nothing to do with not having monstrous acts like stoning happen. It is the constitution of the US that has given americans the opportunity to no longer sink to that level (though it wasn't that long ago when lynchings were happening in the south). Your founding fathers would have thrown away everything if they had relied only on war to win their freedom. Instead they relied on creating a constitution that enshrined (albeit in a bigoted way to go with the times) the freedoms that soldier could never have gotten them. That is why Washington resigned his commission after winning and why he spoke against involvement in foreign wars. This is why Hamilton spoke against standing armies in Fed 26.
Honestly even the American status as a superpower has little to do with soldiers and everything to do with the technological base and the industrial capacity.
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While I would not partake in this kind of behavior, one must look at all the facts and realize ptsd does bring out the worse in a lot of people. Remember that the enemy has also desecrated our bodies time and time again including beheading. Not saying it's right, but on a large scale these small occurring events are not that big and wide spread considering the fact of how long the war has been going on.
As for your wedding friends, first they were playing a video game and were probably out of context having a bit "to much" fun. Racism is a huge problem that stems from war and there is nothing that can be done about that, when you are witnessing many events of death or hostile actions against you or what you must do yourself, racism just happens. It sucks.
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On January 12 2012 10:38 Humanfails wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 10:34 zVooky wrote:
I dont really understand what people want from those guys, on 1 hand you want them to witness all the brutal stuff that comes with war and on the other hand you want them to be completely unaffected by that? It's NOT going to happen like that. Truth is those guys end up F'ed in the head. The STRONGEST of people will with enough war stuff going on.
Is it right? No, Is it wrong? well who the hell are we to judge? These guys that they're urinating on could be some guys that killed their best friends or harmed civilians.. its impossible to tell. Can't just take what the media says and go OH THATS TERRIBLE! Put yourself in those persons shoes for a min and maybe it wont completely make sense but somewhat make sense. its called "not being psychologically fit to conduct warfare". Either they have the mentality of sociopathic monsters, or they gain one through warfare.
You know this from personal experience do you?
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On January 12 2012 10:31 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 10:24 Arterial wrote:On January 12 2012 10:12 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:On January 12 2012 09:58 Mohdoo wrote:Source: http://www.cnn.com/2012/01/11/us/video-marines-urinating/index.html?hpt=hp_t3Washington (CNN) -- A number of websites including TMZ and YouTube posted a video Wednesday showing four men dressed in U.S. Marine Corps combat gear urinating on the apparently dead bodies of three men sprawled on the ground in front of them.
One of the men says, "Have a great day, buddy." A voice asks, "You got it on the video?" to which another voice responds, "Yeah." Another jokes, "Golden, like a shower." The US government has already commented on it and are currently investigating who did this. If I may, I would like to do more than post the story, but also give my personal experience with a group of marines. A friend of my girlfriend was getting married and my girlfriend was one of the bride's maids. As such, there was a get together the day before the wedding at their home for the brides maids and best men etc. As the boyfriend of a bride's maid, I had the pleasure of coming along as well. The man who she was marrying was a marine, and all of his best men were also marines who served together in Iraq or Afghanistan, I can't recall which. When I arrived, they were playing Resident Evil 4, I think. They would joke about how they pretended that the zombies were Muslims, and how they absolutely loved killing Muslims. One of them specifically mentioned how it made them feel amazing to kill Muslims, followed by the rest agreeing and talking about it. I was just kinda sitting on a chair in the living room, as they all sat on a couch. I was speechless and couldn't really wrap my mind around the fact that they meant what they were saying and really felt that way. They continued talking about how they hated Muslims and how much they miss killing them in the war. I could tell that they were being serious and saw nothing wrong with what they were saying. I know its hard to really describe, but I could tell they were being quite serious. The bride and groom were very religious, and the other marines seemed to be the same. I know that some, far from all, Christians see Muslim faith as a competitor of sorts. Nevertheless, the most disgusting behavior I've ever had the displeasure of of watching. I don't like how just about any physically capable person can become a marine. I don't like that there are such low psychological and mental requirements. If someone is given, they need to be an outstanding person. The people shown in this video and the group of marines I described are certainly far from DECENT people. They bring shame to my country and I wish that there was more being done to prevent such people from serving. Note: I do not feel these in the video or the ones I met in person represent Marines or the US military as a whole. However, these people were issued guns and were put in situations where they had the potential to harm civilians. This is beyond unacceptable. It shouldn't be so easy to be a marine. There have been similar incidents in the past as well. 1. What is wrong with pissing on bodies? I mean, it's unprofessional, and rude, but is there anything really morally wrong with it? It's a peace of dead meat. The person isn't inside that body any more. 2. Why include the ridiculous anecdotal story about some marines joking around while playing a game? I don't see how this connects with the article at all. Furthermore, I have heard a thousand variations of this same story a thousand times, and so that makes me wonder why you put it here even more. 3. You don't have to be nice to be a solider. On the contrary, the military would probably prefer having the nasty guy to the nice guy. The nice guy is good, but when it comes time to blow some people up and kill some people, you don't want someone who has a problem with killing. You want someone that wants to kill, likes to kill, and will kill. 4. It isn't easy being a soldier. We need soldiers though, and they don't need to be great people. They need to be killers. Killers, often, are not the greatest people. There aren't enough nice people who are also killers to fill the shoes that we need. Life sucks, move on. Typed from the comfort of your home, no doubt. 1) Would you be okay with people pissing on your dead relatives bodies? They're just pieces of meat anyway right? 2) Let's say for example that you're of an asian background. Would you be okay with it if those guys were talking about killing asians? 3) This kind of logic sounds like something that's been brought up by hollywood movies. 4) Look at no.3. Way to post a ignorant and one-sided post buddy. What does me being at home have to do with anything? 1. My dead relatives are worm food right now. They are probably currently rotting. I don't see how rotting is better than being pissed on. I would laugh in someones face if they told me they pissed on my dead relatives body. It's a body. No one is being hurt by that. 2. I don't believe the OP's story. I think he made it up on the spot. But even if it is true, so what? I wasn't there so I can't comment. Probably they were joking. 3. IDK what to tell you. Go join the military. 4. So you think the military isn't about killing?
What? No the military isnt about killing. Its task is defending the nation that supports it. Killing might be a side effect of that but its not the reason a military exists. Also the military has different branches as well. Humanitarian, scientific, it renders aid in case of natural or artificial disasters etc.
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Has there ever been a conquering army that respected the people they invade? I can't think of one.
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On January 12 2012 10:56 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 10:43 calgar wrote:I don't like how just about any physically capable person can become a marine. I don't like that there are such low psychological and mental requirements. If someone is given, they need to be an outstanding person. The people shown in this video and the group of marines I described are certainly far from DECENT people. They bring shame to my country and I wish that there was more being done to prevent such people from serving. Yo, just wanted to play devils advocate here and defend them. It's pretty easy to come down on their actions (its created a media shitstorm for obvious reasons, and I bet they will be caught since its already been narrowed to sniper teams) and judge them as a result. Disrespecting the dead goes against just about every culture. I think its short-sighted and naive to say that they are terrible people though. War can mess with people and their mental states in serious ways. Maybe they were upstanding and moral before and have since changed after stress and violence like seeing friends killed in front of them. Then they weren't fit for duty. My point in the OP is that soldiers who are not fit for duty are continuing to serve. I don't care who they used to be. People in their situation should be admitted to a psychiatric facility and dealt with, just as any other person would. There need to be stricter standards for when someone is considered good enough to represent our country as a solider.
Why are they not fit for duty? Who did they hurt?
What standards do you think the military has, and how should they be changed? Why should they be changed?
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On January 12 2012 10:58 ChinaRestaurant wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 10:31 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:On January 12 2012 10:24 Arterial wrote:On January 12 2012 10:12 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:On January 12 2012 09:58 Mohdoo wrote:Source: http://www.cnn.com/2012/01/11/us/video-marines-urinating/index.html?hpt=hp_t3Washington (CNN) -- A number of websites including TMZ and YouTube posted a video Wednesday showing four men dressed in U.S. Marine Corps combat gear urinating on the apparently dead bodies of three men sprawled on the ground in front of them.
One of the men says, "Have a great day, buddy." A voice asks, "You got it on the video?" to which another voice responds, "Yeah." Another jokes, "Golden, like a shower." The US government has already commented on it and are currently investigating who did this. If I may, I would like to do more than post the story, but also give my personal experience with a group of marines. A friend of my girlfriend was getting married and my girlfriend was one of the bride's maids. As such, there was a get together the day before the wedding at their home for the brides maids and best men etc. As the boyfriend of a bride's maid, I had the pleasure of coming along as well. The man who she was marrying was a marine, and all of his best men were also marines who served together in Iraq or Afghanistan, I can't recall which. When I arrived, they were playing Resident Evil 4, I think. They would joke about how they pretended that the zombies were Muslims, and how they absolutely loved killing Muslims. One of them specifically mentioned how it made them feel amazing to kill Muslims, followed by the rest agreeing and talking about it. I was just kinda sitting on a chair in the living room, as they all sat on a couch. I was speechless and couldn't really wrap my mind around the fact that they meant what they were saying and really felt that way. They continued talking about how they hated Muslims and how much they miss killing them in the war. I could tell that they were being serious and saw nothing wrong with what they were saying. I know its hard to really describe, but I could tell they were being quite serious. The bride and groom were very religious, and the other marines seemed to be the same. I know that some, far from all, Christians see Muslim faith as a competitor of sorts. Nevertheless, the most disgusting behavior I've ever had the displeasure of of watching. I don't like how just about any physically capable person can become a marine. I don't like that there are such low psychological and mental requirements. If someone is given, they need to be an outstanding person. The people shown in this video and the group of marines I described are certainly far from DECENT people. They bring shame to my country and I wish that there was more being done to prevent such people from serving. Note: I do not feel these in the video or the ones I met in person represent Marines or the US military as a whole. However, these people were issued guns and were put in situations where they had the potential to harm civilians. This is beyond unacceptable. It shouldn't be so easy to be a marine. There have been similar incidents in the past as well. 1. What is wrong with pissing on bodies? I mean, it's unprofessional, and rude, but is there anything really morally wrong with it? It's a peace of dead meat. The person isn't inside that body any more. 2. Why include the ridiculous anecdotal story about some marines joking around while playing a game? I don't see how this connects with the article at all. Furthermore, I have heard a thousand variations of this same story a thousand times, and so that makes me wonder why you put it here even more. 3. You don't have to be nice to be a solider. On the contrary, the military would probably prefer having the nasty guy to the nice guy. The nice guy is good, but when it comes time to blow some people up and kill some people, you don't want someone who has a problem with killing. You want someone that wants to kill, likes to kill, and will kill. 4. It isn't easy being a soldier. We need soldiers though, and they don't need to be great people. They need to be killers. Killers, often, are not the greatest people. There aren't enough nice people who are also killers to fill the shoes that we need. Life sucks, move on. Typed from the comfort of your home, no doubt. 1) Would you be okay with people pissing on your dead relatives bodies? They're just pieces of meat anyway right? 2) Let's say for example that you're of an asian background. Would you be okay with it if those guys were talking about killing asians? 3) This kind of logic sounds like something that's been brought up by hollywood movies. 4) Look at no.3. Way to post a ignorant and one-sided post buddy. What does me being at home have to do with anything? 1. My dead relatives are worm food right now. They are probably currently rotting. I don't see how rotting is better than being pissed on. I would laugh in someones face if they told me they pissed on my dead relatives body. It's a body. No one is being hurt by that. 2. I don't believe the OP's story. I think he made it up on the spot. But even if it is true, so what? I wasn't there so I can't comment. Probably they were joking. 3. IDK what to tell you. Go join the military. 4. So you think the military isn't about killing? What? No the military isnt about killing. Its task is defending the nation that supports it. Killing might be a side effect of that but its not the reason a military exists. Also the military has different branches as well. Humanitarian, scientific, it renders aid in case of natural or artificial disasters etc.
when was the last time we needed defending?
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On January 12 2012 10:56 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 10:43 calgar wrote:I don't like how just about any physically capable person can become a marine. I don't like that there are such low psychological and mental requirements. If someone is given, they need to be an outstanding person. The people shown in this video and the group of marines I described are certainly far from DECENT people. They bring shame to my country and I wish that there was more being done to prevent such people from serving. Yo, just wanted to play devils advocate here and defend them. It's pretty easy to come down on their actions (its created a media shitstorm for obvious reasons, and I bet they will be caught since its already been narrowed to sniper teams) and judge them as a result. Disrespecting the dead goes against just about every culture. I think its short-sighted and naive to say that they are terrible people though. War can mess with people and their mental states in serious ways. Maybe they were upstanding and moral before and have since changed after stress and violence like seeing friends killed in front of them. Then they weren't fit for duty. My point in the OP is that soldiers who are not fit for duty are continuing to serve. I don't care who they used to be. People in their situation should be admitted to a psychiatric facility and dealt with, just as any other person would. There need to be stricter standards for when someone is considered good enough to represent our country as a solider.
While there's some merit here, would your opinion change if this had happened after a firefight, and the corpse in question had just shot one of their friends to death? I feel like it is really hard to judge the men without knowing ALL of the circumstances.
Marines soldiers etc. are often held to higher standards because of the debilitating mental effects that death and battle can have, in my opinion.
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On January 12 2012 10:58 Alryk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 10:38 Humanfails wrote:On January 12 2012 10:34 zVooky wrote:
I dont really understand what people want from those guys, on 1 hand you want them to witness all the brutal stuff that comes with war and on the other hand you want them to be completely unaffected by that? It's NOT going to happen like that. Truth is those guys end up F'ed in the head. The STRONGEST of people will with enough war stuff going on.
Is it right? No, Is it wrong? well who the hell are we to judge? These guys that they're urinating on could be some guys that killed their best friends or harmed civilians.. its impossible to tell. Can't just take what the media says and go OH THATS TERRIBLE! Put yourself in those persons shoes for a min and maybe it wont completely make sense but somewhat make sense. its called "not being psychologically fit to conduct warfare". Either they have the mentality of sociopathic monsters, or they gain one through warfare. You know this from personal experience do you?
It doesn't take personal experience. If someone was mentally/psychologically capable of committing this act, they were not fit for duty. Not urinating on dead people isn't exactly the strictest standard. If these men were operating with the level of honor and respect that our country's servicemen are expected to have, they wouldn't do this. But they did. Hence, they are not psychologically fit.
On January 12 2012 11:00 Alryk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 10:56 Mohdoo wrote:On January 12 2012 10:43 calgar wrote:I don't like how just about any physically capable person can become a marine. I don't like that there are such low psychological and mental requirements. If someone is given, they need to be an outstanding person. The people shown in this video and the group of marines I described are certainly far from DECENT people. They bring shame to my country and I wish that there was more being done to prevent such people from serving. Yo, just wanted to play devils advocate here and defend them. It's pretty easy to come down on their actions (its created a media shitstorm for obvious reasons, and I bet they will be caught since its already been narrowed to sniper teams) and judge them as a result. Disrespecting the dead goes against just about every culture. I think its short-sighted and naive to say that they are terrible people though. War can mess with people and their mental states in serious ways. Maybe they were upstanding and moral before and have since changed after stress and violence like seeing friends killed in front of them. Then they weren't fit for duty. My point in the OP is that soldiers who are not fit for duty are continuing to serve. I don't care who they used to be. People in their situation should be admitted to a psychiatric facility and dealt with, just as any other person would. There need to be stricter standards for when someone is considered good enough to represent our country as a solider. While there's some merit here, would your opinion change if this had happened after a firefight, and the corpse in question had just shot one of their friends to death? I feel like it is really hard to judge the men without knowing ALL of the circumstances.
Does every solider do this? I'd imagine far from it. That would mean that those who did this sort of thing are pretty low on the "psychologically fit" scale. I would conjecture that if there was more psychological oversight both before service and during service, these sorts of incidents could be drastically reduced. These men are giving our country a terrible name and giving terrorists propaganda what they want. They do a disservice to our country.
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On January 12 2012 10:42 zVooky wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 10:38 Humanfails wrote:On January 12 2012 10:34 zVooky wrote:
I dont really understand what people want from those guys, on 1 hand you want them to witness all the brutal stuff that comes with war and on the other hand you want them to be completely unaffected by that? It's NOT going to happen like that. Truth is those guys end up F'ed in the head. The STRONGEST of people will with enough war stuff going on.
Is it right? No, Is it wrong? well who the hell are we to judge? These guys that they're urinating on could be some guys that killed their best friends or harmed civilians.. its impossible to tell. Can't just take what the media says and go OH THATS TERRIBLE! Put yourself in those persons shoes for a min and maybe it wont completely make sense but somewhat make sense. its called "not being psychologically fit to conduct warfare". Either they have the mentality of sociopathic monsters, or they gain one through warfare. Yes but its the guys they bash as "monsters" that protect the country to begin with and give it freedom. Look at some of the stories of stonings and such from other countries, ever wonder why that doesn't happen in the US like it does else where? Sorry but freedom is won with wars and these people you call monsters. I would never want to be put in the situation they are and thus I will never condemn their actions as I know not what these people have gone through.
What? "Freedom" is generated internally and always has been. The US has been under no threat of occupation since its inception. The idea that the American military is protecting American freedom is laughable.
On January 12 2012 10:52 Alryk wrote:Show nested quote +Soldiers in general, are brainwashed to imorality and mass murder. As OPs example shows.
I find the entire military system (at least where i come from) to be a childish, money sink. As somebody who has nearly been shot out of the sky, with a father who was shot at in the first gulf war, and with a son who is about to enter the Air Force Academy, I find this absolutely extraordinarily offensive. Don't try and judge soldiers like civilians. You have no idea what the marines and soldiers on the ground go through, and what they have to suffer through every day. If you aren't haunted nightly by the memories of the faces of people that you've bombed, shot, or had shot, then judge lightly. The vast majority of soldiers, airmen, sailors, and marines fight because they believe in something. We aren't bred for mass murder. Have some more respect (especially those of you in the United States) please. I'm not trying to condone the actions of the people in the OP (I think it is despicable), but please lump them in with the minority, and not the vast majority.
Except there's no conscription. Every single person in the military is a civilian who chose to join up.
I recognise that the military creates horrible experiences, but then pretty much everyone who does something awful has had abominable things happen to them. Doesn't make any terrible actions any more acceptable.
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On January 12 2012 10:12 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 09:58 Mohdoo wrote:Source: http://www.cnn.com/2012/01/11/us/video-marines-urinating/index.html?hpt=hp_t3Washington (CNN) -- A number of websites including TMZ and YouTube posted a video Wednesday showing four men dressed in U.S. Marine Corps combat gear urinating on the apparently dead bodies of three men sprawled on the ground in front of them.
One of the men says, "Have a great day, buddy." A voice asks, "You got it on the video?" to which another voice responds, "Yeah." Another jokes, "Golden, like a shower." The US government has already commented on it and are currently investigating who did this. If I may, I would like to do more than post the story, but also give my personal experience with a group of marines. A friend of my girlfriend was getting married and my girlfriend was one of the bride's maids. As such, there was a get together the day before the wedding at their home for the brides maids and best men etc. As the boyfriend of a bride's maid, I had the pleasure of coming along as well. The man who she was marrying was a marine, and all of his best men were also marines who served together in Iraq or Afghanistan, I can't recall which. When I arrived, they were playing Resident Evil 4, I think. They would joke about how they pretended that the zombies were Muslims, and how they absolutely loved killing Muslims. One of them specifically mentioned how it made them feel amazing to kill Muslims, followed by the rest agreeing and talking about it. I was just kinda sitting on a chair in the living room, as they all sat on a couch. I was speechless and couldn't really wrap my mind around the fact that they meant what they were saying and really felt that way. They continued talking about how they hated Muslims and how much they miss killing them in the war. I could tell that they were being serious and saw nothing wrong with what they were saying. I know its hard to really describe, but I could tell they were being quite serious. The bride and groom were very religious, and the other marines seemed to be the same. I know that some, far from all, Christians see Muslim faith as a competitor of sorts. Nevertheless, the most disgusting behavior I've ever had the displeasure of of watching. I don't like how just about any physically capable person can become a marine. I don't like that there are such low psychological and mental requirements. If someone is given, they need to be an outstanding person. The people shown in this video and the group of marines I described are certainly far from DECENT people. They bring shame to my country and I wish that there was more being done to prevent such people from serving. Note: I do not feel these in the video or the ones I met in person represent Marines or the US military as a whole. However, these people were issued guns and were put in situations where they had the potential to harm civilians. This is beyond unacceptable. It shouldn't be so easy to be a marine. There have been similar incidents in the past as well. 1. What is wrong with pissing on bodies? I mean, it's unprofessional, and rude, but is there anything really morally wrong with it? It's a peace of dead meat. The person isn't inside that body any more. 2. Why include the ridiculous anecdotal story about some marines joking around while playing a game? I don't see how this connects with the article at all. Furthermore, I have heard a thousand variations of this same story a thousand times, and so that makes me wonder why you put it here even more. 3. You don't have to be nice to be a solider. On the contrary, the military would probably prefer having the nasty guy to the nice guy. The nice guy is good, but when it comes time to blow some people up and kill some people, you don't want someone who has a problem with killing. You want someone that wants to kill, likes to kill, and will kill. 4. It isn't easy being a soldier. We need soldiers though, and they don't need to be great people. They need to be killers. Killers, often, are not the greatest people. There aren't enough nice people who are also killers to fill the shoes that we need. Life sucks, move on.
Thus you remain a SCV after hundreds of posts. Need more quality than quantity.
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Its so unfortunate that people like this can ruin the entire image of otherwise honorable servicemen. I hope people dont take this in a way that makes them think many Americans are so disgustingly disrespectful.
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Because that post just screams quality...
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Why did they make a video? 0_o
Can't you just pee on bodies and be "happy" or however peeing on bodies was supposed to make them feel.
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On January 12 2012 11:00 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 10:58 Alryk wrote:On January 12 2012 10:38 Humanfails wrote:On January 12 2012 10:34 zVooky wrote:
I dont really understand what people want from those guys, on 1 hand you want them to witness all the brutal stuff that comes with war and on the other hand you want them to be completely unaffected by that? It's NOT going to happen like that. Truth is those guys end up F'ed in the head. The STRONGEST of people will with enough war stuff going on.
Is it right? No, Is it wrong? well who the hell are we to judge? These guys that they're urinating on could be some guys that killed their best friends or harmed civilians.. its impossible to tell. Can't just take what the media says and go OH THATS TERRIBLE! Put yourself in those persons shoes for a min and maybe it wont completely make sense but somewhat make sense. its called "not being psychologically fit to conduct warfare". Either they have the mentality of sociopathic monsters, or they gain one through warfare. You know this from personal experience do you? It doesn't take personal experience. If someone was mentally/psychologically capable of committing this act, they were not fit for duty. Not urinating on dead people isn't exactly the strictest standard. If these men were operating with the level of honor and respect that our country's servicemen are expected to have, they wouldn't do this. But they did. Hence, they are not psychologically fit. Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 11:00 Alryk wrote:On January 12 2012 10:56 Mohdoo wrote:On January 12 2012 10:43 calgar wrote:I don't like how just about any physically capable person can become a marine. I don't like that there are such low psychological and mental requirements. If someone is given, they need to be an outstanding person. The people shown in this video and the group of marines I described are certainly far from DECENT people. They bring shame to my country and I wish that there was more being done to prevent such people from serving. Yo, just wanted to play devils advocate here and defend them. It's pretty easy to come down on their actions (its created a media shitstorm for obvious reasons, and I bet they will be caught since its already been narrowed to sniper teams) and judge them as a result. Disrespecting the dead goes against just about every culture. I think its short-sighted and naive to say that they are terrible people though. War can mess with people and their mental states in serious ways. Maybe they were upstanding and moral before and have since changed after stress and violence like seeing friends killed in front of them. Then they weren't fit for duty. My point in the OP is that soldiers who are not fit for duty are continuing to serve. I don't care who they used to be. People in their situation should be admitted to a psychiatric facility and dealt with, just as any other person would. There need to be stricter standards for when someone is considered good enough to represent our country as a solider. While there's some merit here, would your opinion change if this had happened after a firefight, and the corpse in question had just shot one of their friends to death? I feel like it is really hard to judge the men without knowing ALL of the circumstances. Does every solider do this? I'd imagine far from it. That would mean that those who did this sort of thing are pretty low on the "psychologically fit" scale. I would conjecture that if there was more psychological oversight both before service and during service, these sorts of incidents could be drastically reduced. These men are giving our country a terrible name and giving terrorists propaganda what they want. They do a disservice to our country.
I guess I would agree with them not being fit for duty, but you really can't understand what it can do to people. And again, I'm not making excuses for them, but war is pretty awful.
Standards can only go so far... and believe it or not, war can turn the most morally upright person into a messed up sack of bones, muscles, and blood with no sense of morality. And while at that point they might not be fit for duty, it's hard to determine when they actually reach that point until they really "snap."
I agree with your second part, it's dishonorable and obviously merits punishment. But you also have to keep in mind the "spur of the moment." Surely you've done something off of an instant reaction and regretted it later? Now, although you might want to say "but they should be ready for this" or something, but it's still often hard to control yourself when a friend blows up near you.
Honestly, I agree with your OP, my argument was never really with you  I just really feel offended by those who seem to imply that "the military is full of mindless killing machines with no sense of honor." I think that failing in your duty is one of the worst things you can do, and part of that is maintaining the moral standards that the US military should be (and is) known for. The sad part is that the media only shows the negatives, which in reality are the vast minority.
I guess I just wish that people would give more credit to the vast majority of honorable men and women who fight and die so that you can stay safe at home and rant about how terrible and dishonorable our entire military is >.>
Edit: To clarify - I agree that people like this are disrespectful and shouldn't serve. I take issue with people who think this is the norm in the military.
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On January 12 2012 10:31 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:
My dead relatives are worm food right now. They are probably currently rotting. I don't see how rotting is better than being pissed on. I would laugh in someones face if they told me they pissed on my dead relatives body. It's a body. No one is being
hurt by that.
It's fine if you don't mind soldiers from another country urinating on the remains of your body or the body of your family members, but isn't part of keeping an open mind understanding that our actions may offend others?
Yes, perhaps from your perspective there is nothing offensive, but if you want to improve diplomatic relations and avoid entire populations from hating your country's military, being politically correct goes a long way. A good place to start is respecting that most people feel urinating on someone's dead body is a bad thing.
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On January 12 2012 10:12 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:
1. What is wrong with pissing on bodies? I mean, it's unprofessional, and rude, but is there anything really morally wrong with it? It's a peace of dead meat. The person isn't inside that body any more.
3. You don't have to be nice to be a solider. On the contrary, the military would probably prefer having the nasty guy to the nice guy. The nice guy is good, but when it comes time to blow some people up and kill some people, you don't want someone who has a problem with killing. You want someone that wants to kill, likes to kill, and will kill.
4. It isn't easy being a soldier. We need soldiers though, and they don't need to be great people. They need to be killers. Killers, often, are not the greatest people. There aren't enough nice people who are also killers to fill the shoes that we need. Life sucks, move on.
OH MY FUCKING GOD! How dare you even say these things!
Someone please do something about this... This is a debauchery of everything that is good about humanity!
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On January 12 2012 11:00 hytonight wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 10:58 ChinaRestaurant wrote:On January 12 2012 10:31 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:On January 12 2012 10:24 Arterial wrote:On January 12 2012 10:12 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:On January 12 2012 09:58 Mohdoo wrote:Source: http://www.cnn.com/2012/01/11/us/video-marines-urinating/index.html?hpt=hp_t3Washington (CNN) -- A number of websites including TMZ and YouTube posted a video Wednesday showing four men dressed in U.S. Marine Corps combat gear urinating on the apparently dead bodies of three men sprawled on the ground in front of them.
One of the men says, "Have a great day, buddy." A voice asks, "You got it on the video?" to which another voice responds, "Yeah." Another jokes, "Golden, like a shower." The US government has already commented on it and are currently investigating who did this. If I may, I would like to do more than post the story, but also give my personal experience with a group of marines. A friend of my girlfriend was getting married and my girlfriend was one of the bride's maids. As such, there was a get together the day before the wedding at their home for the brides maids and best men etc. As the boyfriend of a bride's maid, I had the pleasure of coming along as well. The man who she was marrying was a marine, and all of his best men were also marines who served together in Iraq or Afghanistan, I can't recall which. When I arrived, they were playing Resident Evil 4, I think. They would joke about how they pretended that the zombies were Muslims, and how they absolutely loved killing Muslims. One of them specifically mentioned how it made them feel amazing to kill Muslims, followed by the rest agreeing and talking about it. I was just kinda sitting on a chair in the living room, as they all sat on a couch. I was speechless and couldn't really wrap my mind around the fact that they meant what they were saying and really felt that way. They continued talking about how they hated Muslims and how much they miss killing them in the war. I could tell that they were being serious and saw nothing wrong with what they were saying. I know its hard to really describe, but I could tell they were being quite serious. The bride and groom were very religious, and the other marines seemed to be the same. I know that some, far from all, Christians see Muslim faith as a competitor of sorts. Nevertheless, the most disgusting behavior I've ever had the displeasure of of watching. I don't like how just about any physically capable person can become a marine. I don't like that there are such low psychological and mental requirements. If someone is given, they need to be an outstanding person. The people shown in this video and the group of marines I described are certainly far from DECENT people. They bring shame to my country and I wish that there was more being done to prevent such people from serving. Note: I do not feel these in the video or the ones I met in person represent Marines or the US military as a whole. However, these people were issued guns and were put in situations where they had the potential to harm civilians. This is beyond unacceptable. It shouldn't be so easy to be a marine. There have been similar incidents in the past as well. 1. What is wrong with pissing on bodies? I mean, it's unprofessional, and rude, but is there anything really morally wrong with it? It's a peace of dead meat. The person isn't inside that body any more. 2. Why include the ridiculous anecdotal story about some marines joking around while playing a game? I don't see how this connects with the article at all. Furthermore, I have heard a thousand variations of this same story a thousand times, and so that makes me wonder why you put it here even more. 3. You don't have to be nice to be a solider. On the contrary, the military would probably prefer having the nasty guy to the nice guy. The nice guy is good, but when it comes time to blow some people up and kill some people, you don't want someone who has a problem with killing. You want someone that wants to kill, likes to kill, and will kill. 4. It isn't easy being a soldier. We need soldiers though, and they don't need to be great people. They need to be killers. Killers, often, are not the greatest people. There aren't enough nice people who are also killers to fill the shoes that we need. Life sucks, move on. Typed from the comfort of your home, no doubt. 1) Would you be okay with people pissing on your dead relatives bodies? They're just pieces of meat anyway right? 2) Let's say for example that you're of an asian background. Would you be okay with it if those guys were talking about killing asians? 3) This kind of logic sounds like something that's been brought up by hollywood movies. 4) Look at no.3. Way to post a ignorant and one-sided post buddy. What does me being at home have to do with anything? 1. My dead relatives are worm food right now. They are probably currently rotting. I don't see how rotting is better than being pissed on. I would laugh in someones face if they told me they pissed on my dead relatives body. It's a body. No one is being hurt by that. 2. I don't believe the OP's story. I think he made it up on the spot. But even if it is true, so what? I wasn't there so I can't comment. Probably they were joking. 3. IDK what to tell you. Go join the military. 4. So you think the military isn't about killing? What? No the military isnt about killing. Its task is defending the nation that supports it. Killing might be a side effect of that but its not the reason a military exists. Also the military has different branches as well. Humanitarian, scientific, it renders aid in case of natural or artificial disasters etc. when was the last time we needed defending?
Just because a country doesnt need to defend itself doesnt mean it shouldnt have the means to do so. There is a clear reason for the existance of a military and no matter how much would want to twist that to fit your views its not what the intention of those who formed the military had in mind for it.
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On January 12 2012 11:09 Alryk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 11:00 Mohdoo wrote:On January 12 2012 10:58 Alryk wrote:On January 12 2012 10:38 Humanfails wrote:On January 12 2012 10:34 zVooky wrote:
I dont really understand what people want from those guys, on 1 hand you want them to witness all the brutal stuff that comes with war and on the other hand you want them to be completely unaffected by that? It's NOT going to happen like that. Truth is those guys end up F'ed in the head. The STRONGEST of people will with enough war stuff going on.
Is it right? No, Is it wrong? well who the hell are we to judge? These guys that they're urinating on could be some guys that killed their best friends or harmed civilians.. its impossible to tell. Can't just take what the media says and go OH THATS TERRIBLE! Put yourself in those persons shoes for a min and maybe it wont completely make sense but somewhat make sense. its called "not being psychologically fit to conduct warfare". Either they have the mentality of sociopathic monsters, or they gain one through warfare. You know this from personal experience do you? It doesn't take personal experience. If someone was mentally/psychologically capable of committing this act, they were not fit for duty. Not urinating on dead people isn't exactly the strictest standard. If these men were operating with the level of honor and respect that our country's servicemen are expected to have, they wouldn't do this. But they did. Hence, they are not psychologically fit. On January 12 2012 11:00 Alryk wrote:On January 12 2012 10:56 Mohdoo wrote:On January 12 2012 10:43 calgar wrote:I don't like how just about any physically capable person can become a marine. I don't like that there are such low psychological and mental requirements. If someone is given, they need to be an outstanding person. The people shown in this video and the group of marines I described are certainly far from DECENT people. They bring shame to my country and I wish that there was more being done to prevent such people from serving. Yo, just wanted to play devils advocate here and defend them. It's pretty easy to come down on their actions (its created a media shitstorm for obvious reasons, and I bet they will be caught since its already been narrowed to sniper teams) and judge them as a result. Disrespecting the dead goes against just about every culture. I think its short-sighted and naive to say that they are terrible people though. War can mess with people and their mental states in serious ways. Maybe they were upstanding and moral before and have since changed after stress and violence like seeing friends killed in front of them. Then they weren't fit for duty. My point in the OP is that soldiers who are not fit for duty are continuing to serve. I don't care who they used to be. People in their situation should be admitted to a psychiatric facility and dealt with, just as any other person would. There need to be stricter standards for when someone is considered good enough to represent our country as a solider. While there's some merit here, would your opinion change if this had happened after a firefight, and the corpse in question had just shot one of their friends to death? I feel like it is really hard to judge the men without knowing ALL of the circumstances. Does every solider do this? I'd imagine far from it. That would mean that those who did this sort of thing are pretty low on the "psychologically fit" scale. I would conjecture that if there was more psychological oversight both before service and during service, these sorts of incidents could be drastically reduced. These men are giving our country a terrible name and giving terrorists propaganda what they want. They do a disservice to our country. I guess I would agree with them not being fit for duty, but you really can't understand what it can do to people. And again, I'm not making excuses for them, but war is pretty awful. Standards can only go so far... and believe it or not, war can turn the most morally upright person into a messed up sack of bones, muscles, and blood with no sense of morality. And while at that point they might not be fit for duty, it's hard to determine when they actually reach that point until they really "snap." I agree with your second part, it's dishonorable and obviously merits punishment. But you also have to keep in mind the "spur of the moment." Surely you've done something off of an instant reaction and regretted it later? Now, although you might want to say "but they should be ready for this" or something, but it's still often hard to control yourself when a friend blows up near you. Honestly, I agree with your OP, my argument was never really with you I just really feel offended by those who seem to imply that "the military is full of mindless killing machines with no sense of honor." I think that failing in your duty is one of the worst things you can do, and part of that is maintaining the moral standards that the US military should be (and is) known for. The sad part is that the media only shows the negatives, which in reality are the vast minority. I guess I just wish that people would give more credit to the vast majority of honorable men and women who fight and die so that you can stay safe at home and rant about how terrible and dishonorable our entire military is >.> Edit: To clarify - I agree that people like this are disrespectful and shouldn't serve. I take issue with people who think this is the norm in the military.
Right, I by no means believe all the military is like this. I'm curious, you being someone who seems to have a family of military men, perhaps you're fit to answer. What do you think the military can or should (in an ideal world) do to curve this sort of thing? I believe this is a genuine issue and that it needs to change. I don't think we should accept this as a fact of war. We're a race of progress and self-betterment. We should be able to tackle this problem.
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On January 12 2012 10:12 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:
3. You don't have to be nice to be a solider. On the contrary, the military would probably prefer having the nasty guy to the nice guy. The nice guy is good, but when it comes time to blow some people up and kill some people, you don't want someone who has a problem with killing. You want someone that wants to kill, likes to kill, and will kill.
4. It isn't easy being a soldier. We need soldiers though, and they don't need to be great people. They need to be killers. Killers, often, are not the greatest people. There aren't enough nice people who are also killers to fill the shoes that we need. Life sucks, move on.
Really all that needs be said.
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Things like this really frighten me. I know three people from high school who ended up joining the marines. 2 of them said when I asked them why they were joined was to "kill towelheads". I think the military needs some way of figuring out the tolerance levels for people before we let them represent our country abroad. You don't want the people who are supposed to be winning the hearts and minds abroad giving such an awful image for America. If that cuts down in the number of people able to be in the military, then I'm going to be too sad if we have to cut down the size of our military.
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On January 12 2012 11:10 ChinaRestaurant wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 11:00 hytonight wrote:On January 12 2012 10:58 ChinaRestaurant wrote:On January 12 2012 10:31 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:On January 12 2012 10:24 Arterial wrote:On January 12 2012 10:12 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:On January 12 2012 09:58 Mohdoo wrote:Source: Washington (CNN) -- A number of websites including TMZ and YouTube posted a video Wednesday showing four men dressed in U.S. Marine Corps combat gear urinating on the apparently dead bodies of three men sprawled on the ground in front of them.
One of the men says, "Have a great day, buddy." A voice asks, "You got it on the video?" to which another voice responds, "Yeah." Another jokes, "Golden, like a shower." The US government has already commented on it and are currently investigating who did this. If I may, I would like to do more than post the story, but also give my personal experience with a group of marines. A friend of my girlfriend was getting married and my girlfriend was one of the bride's maids. As such, there was a get together the day before the wedding at their home for the brides maids and best men etc. As the boyfriend of a bride's maid, I had the pleasure of coming along as well. The man who she was marrying was a marine, and all of his best men were also marines who served together in Iraq or Afghanistan, I can't recall which. When I arrived, they were playing Resident Evil 4, I think. They would joke about how they pretended that the zombies were Muslims, and how they absolutely loved killing Muslims. One of them specifically mentioned how it made them feel amazing to kill Muslims, followed by the rest agreeing and talking about it. I was just kinda sitting on a chair in the living room, as they all sat on a couch. I was speechless and couldn't really wrap my mind around the fact that they meant what they were saying and really felt that way. They continued talking about how they hated Muslims and how much they miss killing them in the war. I could tell that they were being serious and saw nothing wrong with what they were saying. I know its hard to really describe, but I could tell they were being quite serious. The bride and groom were very religious, and the other marines seemed to be the same. I know that some, far from all, Christians see Muslim faith as a competitor of sorts. Nevertheless, the most disgusting behavior I've ever had the displeasure of of watching. I don't like how just about any physically capable person can become a marine. I don't like that there are such low psychological and mental requirements. If someone is given, they need to be an outstanding person. The people shown in this video and the group of marines I described are certainly far from DECENT people. They bring shame to my country and I wish that there was more being done to prevent such people from serving. Note: I do not feel these in the video or the ones I met in person represent Marines or the US military as a whole. However, these people were issued guns and were put in situations where they had the potential to harm civilians. This is beyond unacceptable. It shouldn't be so easy to be a marine. There have been similar incidents in the past as well. 1. What is wrong with pissing on bodies? I mean, it's unprofessional, and rude, but is there anything really morally wrong with it? It's a peace of dead meat. The person isn't inside that body any more. 2. Why include the ridiculous anecdotal story about some marines joking around while playing a game? I don't see how this connects with the article at all. Furthermore, I have heard a thousand variations of this same story a thousand times, and so that makes me wonder why you put it here even more. 3. You don't have to be nice to be a solider. On the contrary, the military would probably prefer having the nasty guy to the nice guy. The nice guy is good, but when it comes time to blow some people up and kill some people, you don't want someone who has a problem with killing. You want someone that wants to kill, likes to kill, and will kill. 4. It isn't easy being a soldier. We need soldiers though, and they don't need to be great people. They need to be killers. Killers, often, are not the greatest people. There aren't enough nice people who are also killers to fill the shoes that we need. Life sucks, move on. Typed from the comfort of your home, no doubt. 1) Would you be okay with people pissing on your dead relatives bodies? They're just pieces of meat anyway right? 2) Let's say for example that you're of an asian background. Would you be okay with it if those guys were talking about killing asians? 3) This kind of logic sounds like something that's been brought up by hollywood movies. 4) Look at no.3. Way to post a ignorant and one-sided post buddy. What does me being at home have to do with anything? 1. My dead relatives are worm food right now. They are probably currently rotting. I don't see how rotting is better than being pissed on. I would laugh in someones face if they told me they pissed on my dead relatives body. It's a body. No one is being hurt by that. 2. I don't believe the OP's story. I think he made it up on the spot. But even if it is true, so what? I wasn't there so I can't comment. Probably they were joking. 3. IDK what to tell you. Go join the military. 4. So you think the military isn't about killing? What? No the military isnt about killing. Its task is defending the nation that supports it. Killing might be a side effect of that but its not the reason a military exists. Also the military has different branches as well. Humanitarian, scientific, it renders aid in case of natural or artificial disasters etc. when was the last time we needed defending? Just because a country doesnt need to defend itself doesnt mean it shouldnt have the means to do so. There is a clear reason for the existance of a military and no matter how much would want to twist that to fit your views its not what the intention of those who formed the military had in mind for it.
Nothing wrong with having a military. However, you cannot possibly claim that the purpose of the American military has been defence since WW2.
On January 12 2012 11:09 Alryk wrote:
I guess I just wish that people would give more credit to the vast majority of honorable men and women who fight and die so that you can stay safe at home and rant about how terrible and dishonorable our entire military is >.>
Edit: To clarify - I agree that people like this are disrespectful and shouldn't serve. I take issue with people who think this is the norm in the military.
Oh come on, this is just obfuscation. None of the people involved here had anything whatsoever to do with defending anyone who is posting here.
The majority of military personnel I've talked to have had poor attitudes to war - been eager to "kill towelheads" and that kind of bullshit - and would be all for pissing on dead bodies. This doesn't surprise me at all. I have no idea what the exact percentage split between "honourable people" and "dishonourable people" in any military might be, but let's not pretend this sort of disgusting attitude is rare.
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On January 12 2012 11:13 diophan wrote:
Things like this really frighten me. I know three people from high school who ended up joining the marines. 2 of them said when I asked them why they were joined was to "kill towelheads". I think the military needs some way of figuring out the tolerance levels for people before we let them represent our country abroad. You don't want the people who are supposed to be winning the hearts and minds abroad giving such an awful image for America. If that cuts down in the number of people able to be in the military, then I'm going to be too sad if we have to cut down the size of our military.
problem is when they come back. i have a friend who enlisted to get out of a jail sentence, he feels itchy without having at least something to shoot every day. guys totally lost it, he cant wait to go back out.
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On January 12 2012 10:12 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:
4. It isn't easy being a soldier. We need soldiers though, and they don't need to be great people. They need to be killers. Killers, often, are not the greatest people. There aren't enough nice people who are also killers to fill the shoes that we need. Life sucks, move on.
Yeah, the way to clean up after invading a country is definitely getting soldiers who make people hate us even more, inciting more people to join the fight against us. We just need to kill everyone that doesn't like us and we'll win. That's how it works right? ...
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Sorry, guys, but "winning the hearts and minds" of the population is not the soldier's job. His job is to shoot where his CO tells him to shoot, kill who his CO tells him to kill, and be a nasty, crude, rude, and generally unpleasant mother-fucker.
People are making WAAAAAAAY too big a deal about this...
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On January 12 2012 11:18 amd098 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 11:13 diophan wrote:
Things like this really frighten me. I know three people from high school who ended up joining the marines. 2 of them said when I asked them why they were joined was to "kill towelheads". I think the military needs some way of figuring out the tolerance levels for people before we let them represent our country abroad. You don't want the people who are supposed to be winning the hearts and minds abroad giving such an awful image for America. If that cuts down in the number of people able to be in the military, then I'm going to be too sad if we have to cut down the size of our military. problem is when they come back. i have a friend who enlisted to get out of a jail sentence, he feels itchy without having at least something to shoot every day. guys totally lost it, he cant wait to go back out.
...And this is exactly what I'm talking about >_< This guy is going to go back into the military apparently and there is no way that is a good thing.
On January 12 2012 11:19 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:
Sorry, guys, but "winning the hearts and minds" of the population is no the soldier's job. His job is to shoot where his CO tells him to shoot, kill who his CO tells him to kill, and generally be a nasty, crude, rude, and generally unpleasant mother-fucker.
People are making WAAAAAAAY too big a deal about this...
This is your opinion on what is right and wrong in the world and has no basis on the reality. A soldier DOES play a huge role in winning the hears and minds of a population. Especially when they are sent there to help said people. You can argue that in a better world, it would not be their job. But it is their job. The role a soldier plays is a huge impact on how a population views a people, whether you agree with it or not.
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This incident doesn't represent every Marine, nor the USMC in general. Damn technology.
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On January 12 2012 11:22 Tegin wrote:
This incident doesn't represent every Marine, nor the USMC in general. Damn technology.
Damn technology? Technology is the reason these pitiful people will be brought to justice. Technology is the reason people become aware of this disgraceful behavior.
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On January 12 2012 11:13 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 11:09 Alryk wrote:On January 12 2012 11:00 Mohdoo wrote:On January 12 2012 10:58 Alryk wrote:On January 12 2012 10:38 Humanfails wrote:On January 12 2012 10:34 zVooky wrote:
I dont really understand what people want from those guys, on 1 hand you want them to witness all the brutal stuff that comes with war and on the other hand you want them to be completely unaffected by that? It's NOT going to happen like that. Truth is those guys end up F'ed in the head. The STRONGEST of people will with enough war stuff going on.
Is it right? No, Is it wrong? well who the hell are we to judge? These guys that they're urinating on could be some guys that killed their best friends or harmed civilians.. its impossible to tell. Can't just take what the media says and go OH THATS TERRIBLE! Put yourself in those persons shoes for a min and maybe it wont completely make sense but somewhat make sense. its called "not being psychologically fit to conduct warfare". Either they have the mentality of sociopathic monsters, or they gain one through warfare. You know this from personal experience do you? It doesn't take personal experience. If someone was mentally/psychologically capable of committing this act, they were not fit for duty. Not urinating on dead people isn't exactly the strictest standard. If these men were operating with the level of honor and respect that our country's servicemen are expected to have, they wouldn't do this. But they did. Hence, they are not psychologically fit. On January 12 2012 11:00 Alryk wrote:On January 12 2012 10:56 Mohdoo wrote:On January 12 2012 10:43 calgar wrote:I don't like how just about any physically capable person can become a marine. I don't like that there are such low psychological and mental requirements. If someone is given, they need to be an outstanding person. The people shown in this video and the group of marines I described are certainly far from DECENT people. They bring shame to my country and I wish that there was more being done to prevent such people from serving. Yo, just wanted to play devils advocate here and defend them. It's pretty easy to come down on their actions (its created a media shitstorm for obvious reasons, and I bet they will be caught since its already been narrowed to sniper teams) and judge them as a result. Disrespecting the dead goes against just about every culture. I think its short-sighted and naive to say that they are terrible people though. War can mess with people and their mental states in serious ways. Maybe they were upstanding and moral before and have since changed after stress and violence like seeing friends killed in front of them. Then they weren't fit for duty. My point in the OP is that soldiers who are not fit for duty are continuing to serve. I don't care who they used to be. People in their situation should be admitted to a psychiatric facility and dealt with, just as any other person would. There need to be stricter standards for when someone is considered good enough to represent our country as a solider. While there's some merit here, would your opinion change if this had happened after a firefight, and the corpse in question had just shot one of their friends to death? I feel like it is really hard to judge the men without knowing ALL of the circumstances. Does every solider do this? I'd imagine far from it. That would mean that those who did this sort of thing are pretty low on the "psychologically fit" scale. I would conjecture that if there was more psychological oversight both before service and during service, these sorts of incidents could be drastically reduced. These men are giving our country a terrible name and giving terrorists propaganda what they want. They do a disservice to our country. I guess I would agree with them not being fit for duty, but you really can't understand what it can do to people. And again, I'm not making excuses for them, but war is pretty awful. Standards can only go so far... and believe it or not, war can turn the most morally upright person into a messed up sack of bones, muscles, and blood with no sense of morality. And while at that point they might not be fit for duty, it's hard to determine when they actually reach that point until they really "snap." I agree with your second part, it's dishonorable and obviously merits punishment. But you also have to keep in mind the "spur of the moment." Surely you've done something off of an instant reaction and regretted it later? Now, although you might want to say "but they should be ready for this" or something, but it's still often hard to control yourself when a friend blows up near you. Honestly, I agree with your OP, my argument was never really with you I just really feel offended by those who seem to imply that "the military is full of mindless killing machines with no sense of honor." I think that failing in your duty is one of the worst things you can do, and part of that is maintaining the moral standards that the US military should be (and is) known for. The sad part is that the media only shows the negatives, which in reality are the vast minority. I guess I just wish that people would give more credit to the vast majority of honorable men and women who fight and die so that you can stay safe at home and rant about how terrible and dishonorable our entire military is >.> Edit: To clarify - I agree that people like this are disrespectful and shouldn't serve. I take issue with people who think this is the norm in the military. Right, I by no means believe all the military is like this. I'm curious, you being someone who seems to have a family of military men, perhaps you're fit to answer. What do you think the military can or should (in an ideal world) do to curve this sort of thing? I believe this is a genuine issue and that it needs to change. I don't think we should accept this as a fact of war. We're a race of progress and self-betterment. We should be able to tackle this problem.
Alright, that makes me feel a bit better. And in an ideal world? The ideal thing I think would be to not have soldiers on their tenth plus tour of duty (airmen don't really have to go on nearly as many, and my family is pretty happy for that haha.) But a lot of the marines (who, even though they seem to be the "symbol" of the US military, aren't INTENDED to fight for extended periods of time) are on multiple tours of duty. I don't know the exact number, but I believe you aren't supposed to have been in more than like 3-4 tours of duty (you can't quote me on that though haha)
Anyways, part of what you have to keep in mind is we have soldiers who have been in the field for ten years. That is REALLY, REALLY terrible. If we had more volunteers, then that in and of itself would go a long way towards fixing the problem. A far fewer number of soldiers would go without help, and that would help the problem immensely. Each tour kind of compounds on the last, and that's what results in people acting like this (in the few cases I've seen). I'm scared to death that my son will have to go through a situation like this, and this to me is the main problem that we have. It is seriously hard to get through training (in my imagination) without having developed a sense of ethics, and impossible to get through a military academy without it.
It would be nice to have the ability to pull marines out of the fight as soon as signs of this showed up, I guess you could have more psychiatrists for that? To give another perspective, there already is a huge "weeding" of the bad seeds in the army (at least the airforce, and my respect for the navy and the army makes me think that it's the same there). This addresses you Diophan - a lot of the people who enlist to "kill towelheads" don't even make it through training.
To clear up another potential misconception, marines are intended as shock troopers so to speak. They're the "get in, get the job done, get out" crew, while the army cleans up the mess and occupies the actual ground locations. To have to be out of your combat role can be really grating sometimes.
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On January 12 2012 11:19 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:
Sorry, guys, but "winning the hearts and minds" of the population is not the soldier's job. His job is to shoot where his CO tells him to shoot, kill who his CO tells him to kill, and be a nasty, crude, rude, and generally unpleasant mother-fucker.
People are making WAAAAAAAY too big a deal about this...
If all a soldier's job is to kill people who he's been told to kill then it's an exceptionally dishonourable job.
You can't have things both ways.
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On January 12 2012 11:19 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:
Sorry, guys, but "winning the hearts and minds" of the population is not the soldier's job. His job is to shoot where his CO tells him to shoot, kill who his CO tells him to kill, and be a nasty, crude, rude, and generally unpleasant mother-fucker.
People are making WAAAAAAAY too big a deal about this...
in no way is it a service member's job to be anything you just said. is killing required? sometimes. but not the rest.
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On January 12 2012 11:24 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 11:22 Tegin wrote:
This incident doesn't represent every Marine, nor the USMC in general. Damn technology. Damn technology? Technology is the reason these pitiful people will be brought to justice. Technology is the reason people become aware of this disgraceful behavior.
I think he's talking about how the media tends to just show the ridiculously awful side of things and never the good side, not that he's disagreeing with you
Also: did I answer your question well enough? If you have something else to ask please feel free.
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On January 12 2012 11:25 Alryk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 11:24 Mohdoo wrote:On January 12 2012 11:22 Tegin wrote:
This incident doesn't represent every Marine, nor the USMC in general. Damn technology. Damn technology? Technology is the reason these pitiful people will be brought to justice. Technology is the reason people become aware of this disgraceful behavior. I think he's talking about how the media tends to just show the ridiculously awful side of things and never the good side, not that he's disagreeing with you Also: did I answer your question well enough? If you have something else to ask please feel free.
What good side?
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On January 12 2012 11:19 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:
Sorry, guys, but "winning the hearts and minds" of the population is not the soldier's job. His job is to shoot where his CO tells him to shoot, kill who his CO tells him to kill, and be a nasty, crude, rude, and generally unpleasant mother-fucker.
People are making WAAAAAAAY too big a deal about this...
That is just generally incorrect.... My computer professor earned the Navy Cross in Vietnam ( A war which was a hell of a lot worse than Iraqi freedom), and he is an extremely level-headed, polite, pleasant mother-fucker.
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On January 12 2012 11:19 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:
Sorry, guys, but "winning the hearts and minds" of the population is not the soldier's job. His job is to shoot where his CO tells him to shoot, kill who his CO tells him to kill, and be a nasty, crude, rude, and generally unpleasant mother-fucker.
People are making WAAAAAAAY too big a deal about this...
Stop playing Call of Duty... this is just wrong. (Except obeying the CO I guess)
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On January 12 2012 11:24 FuzzyJAM wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 11:19 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:
Sorry, guys, but "winning the hearts and minds" of the population is not the soldier's job. His job is to shoot where his CO tells him to shoot, kill who his CO tells him to kill, and be a nasty, crude, rude, and generally unpleasant mother-fucker.
People are making WAAAAAAAY too big a deal about this... If all a soldier's job is to kill people who he's been told to kill then it's an exceptionally dishonourable job. You can't have things both ways.
I can and do have it both ways. A good soldier follows the lawful orders of his CO without question or hesitation. If his CO orders him to kill a target, he has a duty to kill that target as quickly and efficiently as possible.
No job is honorable or dishonorable taken by itself. Only the one who is doing it can make it honorable or dishonorable. In this instance, what the soldiers did was gross, but hardly shocking or even all that disrespectful. I don't see how shooting someone is okay, but then peeing on them is "so horrible!"
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Basically how technology can bring to every home in America the bad things that happen in war. I'm a former Marine myself with 2 tours to Iraq. I think itsbullshit this is even a story. Think for a minute how ugly any of the world wars would have been if we had had the technology we do today to report it.
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On January 12 2012 11:26 FuzzyJAM wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 11:25 Alryk wrote:On January 12 2012 11:24 Mohdoo wrote:On January 12 2012 11:22 Tegin wrote:
This incident doesn't represent every Marine, nor the USMC in general. Damn technology. Damn technology? Technology is the reason these pitiful people will be brought to justice. Technology is the reason people become aware of this disgraceful behavior. I think he's talking about how the media tends to just show the ridiculously awful side of things and never the good side, not that he's disagreeing with you Also: did I answer your question well enough? If you have something else to ask please feel free. What good side?
The side where I helped evac a building of marines and civilians?
Edit: sorry, injured civilians.
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On January 12 2012 11:27 RoosterSamurai wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 11:19 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:
Sorry, guys, but "winning the hearts and minds" of the population is not the soldier's job. His job is to shoot where his CO tells him to shoot, kill who his CO tells him to kill, and be a nasty, crude, rude, and generally unpleasant mother-fucker.
People are making WAAAAAAAY too big a deal about this... That is just generally incorrect.... My computer professor earned the Navy Cross in Vietnam ( A war which was a hell of a lot worse than Iraqi freedom), and he is an extremely level-headed, polite, pleasant mother-fucker.
I bet he wasn't when he was in Vietnam. I bet he was a crude, rude, nasty mother-fucker when he was in Vietnam.
Seriously this image of the military as a bunch of philosophers and philanthropists is laughable. 99% of them are young men filled with fire and guts and 99% of them are not exactly "polite, level-headed and pleasant", anecdotal evidence aside.
"What makes the green grass grow?"
"Blood, blood, blood, makes the green grass grow."
^^^ My brother had to say that every single day to his DS in boot camp.
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On January 12 2012 11:27 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 11:24 FuzzyJAM wrote:On January 12 2012 11:19 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:
Sorry, guys, but "winning the hearts and minds" of the population is not the soldier's job. His job is to shoot where his CO tells him to shoot, kill who his CO tells him to kill, and be a nasty, crude, rude, and generally unpleasant mother-fucker.
People are making WAAAAAAAY too big a deal about this... If all a soldier's job is to kill people who he's been told to kill then it's an exceptionally dishonourable job. You can't have things both ways. In this instance, what the soldiers did was gross, but hardly shocking or even all that disrespectful. I don't see how shooting someone is okay, but then peeing on them is "so horrible!"
Well I don't know the circumstances under which those people were killed so I can't judge that. But if you can't understand how urinating on a corpse is disrespectful and able to incite hatred then maybe you should accept that very few people are going to agree with you. Further it doesn't matter whether you think it's disrespectful or not, what matters is what the civilians there think. Islam has specific rules governing on how the dead are supposed to be buried, and I'm pretty sure pissing on them isn't one of those things.
On January 12 2012 11:31 FraCuS wrote:
But don't view the US military as a bunch of assholes, there are a lot of us actually that really aren't pathetic like them degenerates.
I really hope no one on this thread thinks everyone in the military is like this. I know there are people like you, just unfortunately not enough of them.
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[QUOTE]On January 12 2012 10:57 Silidons wrote:
[QUOTE]On January 12 2012 10:00 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
These specific men are jerks (although not as detestable as the marines who threw the puppy over the cliff).
Marines, in general, are honorable men. [/QUOTE]
Funny because many of the people from my High School that went into the Army/Marines were fucking assholes.
And most of the people that I know who are in the military (family, friends, etc.) aren't, and both of our statements justify my argument that you shouldn't stereotype an entire group based on the actions of a few people.
Thanks for that.
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On January 12 2012 10:12 Teoman wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 10:00 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
These specific men are jerks (although not as detestable as the marines who threw the puppy over the cliff).
Marines, in general, are honorable men. Soldiers in general, are brainwashed to imorality and mass murder. As OPs example shows.
..... WHAT?
Hey, theres murders every day, shit a lot worse than this. Does that mean people are "in general, brainwashed to imorality and mass murder"?
I live right next to a Marine base (Camp Pendleton) and they come thru the town i live in by the masses. Some of my really good friends joined the Marines.
They're normal people for the most part (and I seriously mean the VAST majority)
This thread should've been closed after the first post.
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There is actually quite a handbook of requirements to join the US armed forces- I know I DQ'd 3 or 4 different ways when I applied.
Lying, on the other hand...
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On January 12 2012 11:27 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 11:24 FuzzyJAM wrote:On January 12 2012 11:19 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:
Sorry, guys, but "winning the hearts and minds" of the population is not the soldier's job. His job is to shoot where his CO tells him to shoot, kill who his CO tells him to kill, and be a nasty, crude, rude, and generally unpleasant mother-fucker.
People are making WAAAAAAAY too big a deal about this... If all a soldier's job is to kill people who he's been told to kill then it's an exceptionally dishonourable job. You can't have things both ways. I can and do have it both ways. A good soldier follows the lawful orders of his CO without question or hesitation. If his CO orders him to kill a target, he has a duty to kill that target as quickly and efficiently as possible. No job is honorable or dishonorable taken by itself. Only the one who is doing it can make it honorable or dishonorable. In this instance, what the soldiers did was gross, but hardly shocking or even all that disrespectful. I don't see how shooting someone is okay, but then peeing on them is "so horrible!"
Desecration of a corpse is legally defined as war crime.
On January 12 2012 11:25 Alryk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 11:24 Mohdoo wrote:On January 12 2012 11:22 Tegin wrote:
This incident doesn't represent every Marine, nor the USMC in general. Damn technology. Damn technology? Technology is the reason these pitiful people will be brought to justice. Technology is the reason people become aware of this disgraceful behavior. I think he's talking about how the media tends to just show the ridiculously awful side of things and never the good side, not that he's disagreeing with you Also: did I answer your question well enough? If you have something else to ask please feel free.
Yes, you did, thank you. Its shocking to hear that soldiers are allowed to serve more than the recommended amount. I can imagine that after a while, they're totally fucked up from all the shit that goes down. That is DEFINITELY something that needs to change...
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I didn't say that it wasn't disrespectful. My point is
Why are you expecting killers to be respectful to people they just killed?
Why do soldiers have to be "respectful"?
Where did you all get this idea that the military is happy fun time filled with a bunch of people who are deep thinkers who are constantly pontificating about their love and respect for their enemy? That is some pure hollywood BS right there.
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Not a good thing to do. But then again, the US Marines aren't reflexive of this. I'd be more concerned when there wouldn't be people doing bad things once in a while.
On a whole, even if you don't like the US armies for what they do, you've gotta respect that there are men and women out there to try to do the right thing for their country, and that's worth a hell of a lot more than some'd think.
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On January 12 2012 11:30 Alryk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 11:26 FuzzyJAM wrote:On January 12 2012 11:25 Alryk wrote:On January 12 2012 11:24 Mohdoo wrote:On January 12 2012 11:22 Tegin wrote:
This incident doesn't represent every Marine, nor the USMC in general. Damn technology. Damn technology? Technology is the reason these pitiful people will be brought to justice. Technology is the reason people become aware of this disgraceful behavior. I think he's talking about how the media tends to just show the ridiculously awful side of things and never the good side, not that he's disagreeing with you Also: did I answer your question well enough? If you have something else to ask please feel free. What good side? The side where I helped evac a building of marines and civilians?
Who were there because? And who needed saving because?
Don't get me wrong, I can understand that individuals in the military can be doing exceptionally courageous and great things and I respect them for it, but the reason they have to do them is because the military was misused in the first place. Pretty much every military, regardless of how terrible the endeavour might be, has produced great moments of selfless courage that you can look on with pride as an individual. The "good side" I'm looking for, however, is the total positive effect of the military action taking place.
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I'm a soldier and I'm a grunt, I hear almost everyone in my combat platoon talk about killing Muslim's and fucking them up. I hear it all the time. It's really all brain wash I hear from people who disagree with Muslim's. I'm not really a religious person but I really disagree with this and this is fucking disappointing why these fuck heads are doing shit like this.
People like these guys, gives American soldiers a bad rep. No wonder why Iraqi's civilians fucking hate us, mainly because of our actions and shit. One reason why i really second guess why i joined the USARMY is when, we were out on patrol and we had a couple of soccer balls. There was kids running on the side of the road. I asked if we could stop and hand them some balls. My leader said "Nah fuck them and I just simply said "roger" with disgust...We didn't have to stop, or anything we could of just thrown them out the turret. We had soccer balls in the first place to hand them out... =\
But don't view the US military as a bunch of assholes, there are a lot of us actually that really aren't pathetic like them degenerates.
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On January 12 2012 11:27 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 11:24 FuzzyJAM wrote:On January 12 2012 11:19 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:
Sorry, guys, but "winning the hearts and minds" of the population is not the soldier's job. His job is to shoot where his CO tells him to shoot, kill who his CO tells him to kill, and be a nasty, crude, rude, and generally unpleasant mother-fucker.
People are making WAAAAAAAY too big a deal about this... If all a soldier's job is to kill people who he's been told to kill then it's an exceptionally dishonourable job. You can't have things both ways. I can and do have it both ways. A good soldier follows the lawful orders of his CO without question or hesitation. If his CO orders him to kill a target, he has a duty to kill that target as quickly and efficiently as possible. No job is honorable or dishonorable taken by itself. Only the one who is doing it can make it honorable or dishonorable. In this instance, what the soldiers did was gross, but hardly shocking or even all that disrespectful. I don't see how shooting someone is okay, but then peeing on them is "so horrible!"
Please tell us, do you have a baggage with anything/anyone?
What happened why you have such anger inside you?
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On January 12 2012 11:35 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:
I didn't say that it wasn't disrespectful. My point is
Why are you expecting killers to be respectful to people they just killed?
Why do soldiers have to be "respectful"?
This is exactly the attitude that caused the disaster which was Vietnam. I'm glad our military leaders now understand to some extent the exit strategy from Iraq/Afghanistan isn't "recruit people who will mindlessly kill who goes against us, do a bunch of disrespectful things to make every more people turn against us so we have to kill them too, and once they're all dead we're done".
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On January 12 2012 11:36 FraCuS wrote:
I'm a soldier and I'm a grunt, I hear almost everyone in my combat platoon talk about killing Muslim's and fucking them up. I hear it all the time. It's really all brain wash I hear from people who disagree with Muslim's. I'm not really a religious person but I really disagree with this and this is fucking disappointing why these fuck heads are doing shit like this.
People like these guys, gives American soldiers a bad rep. No wonder why Iraqi's civilians fucking hate us, mainly because of our actions and shit. One reason why i really second guess why i joined the USARMY is when, we were out on patrol and we had a couple of soccer balls. There was kids running on the side of the road. I asked if we could stop and hand them some balls. My leader said "Nah fuck them and I just simply said "roger" with disgust...We didn't have to stop, or anything we could of just thrown them out the turret. We had soccer balls in the first place to hand them out... =\
But don't view the US military as a bunch of assholes, there are a lot of us actually that really aren't pathetic like them degenerates.
+10
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On January 12 2012 11:35 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:
I didn't say that it wasn't disrespectful. My point is
Why are you expecting killers to be respectful to people they just killed?
Why do soldiers have to be "respectful"?
Where did you all get this idea that the military is happy fun time filled with a bunch of people who are deep thinkers who are constantly pontificating about their love and respect for their enemy? That is some pure hollywood BS right there.
We're not there to annihilate the Iraqi's and their culture. We're there to bring peace to their land. Regardless of whether or not I agree with the war, one thing I do know is that shooting their people and pissing on them is certainly not a good way to make them like us or democracy more... It's barbaric actions like this that can cause more young Iraqi men to want to defend their country against the occupying forces.
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If this is what is bad, we're doing good. Refer to the history of any war and you'll find things infinitely worse than peeing on enemy dead.
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Why are you so obsessed with attacking my person instead of my arguments? Don't answer that, just think about it for a while, then think about what you are defending and what you are condemning.
That being said, obviously this thread isn't going anywhere. A lot of people who aren't in the military and never will be pontificating about what soldiers should think... yeah.. that sounds pretty unproductive...
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On January 12 2012 11:34 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 11:27 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:On January 12 2012 11:24 FuzzyJAM wrote:On January 12 2012 11:19 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:
Sorry, guys, but "winning the hearts and minds" of the population is not the soldier's job. His job is to shoot where his CO tells him to shoot, kill who his CO tells him to kill, and be a nasty, crude, rude, and generally unpleasant mother-fucker.
People are making WAAAAAAAY too big a deal about this... If all a soldier's job is to kill people who he's been told to kill then it's an exceptionally dishonourable job. You can't have things both ways. I can and do have it both ways. A good soldier follows the lawful orders of his CO without question or hesitation. If his CO orders him to kill a target, he has a duty to kill that target as quickly and efficiently as possible. No job is honorable or dishonorable taken by itself. Only the one who is doing it can make it honorable or dishonorable. In this instance, what the soldiers did was gross, but hardly shocking or even all that disrespectful. I don't see how shooting someone is okay, but then peeing on them is "so horrible!" Desecration of a corpse is legally defined as war crime. Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 11:25 Alryk wrote:On January 12 2012 11:24 Mohdoo wrote:On January 12 2012 11:22 Tegin wrote:
This incident doesn't represent every Marine, nor the USMC in general. Damn technology. Damn technology? Technology is the reason these pitiful people will be brought to justice. Technology is the reason people become aware of this disgraceful behavior. I think he's talking about how the media tends to just show the ridiculously awful side of things and never the good side, not that he's disagreeing with you Also: did I answer your question well enough? If you have something else to ask please feel free. Yes, you did, thank you. Its shocking to hear that soldiers are allowed to serve more than the recommended amount. I can imagine that after a while, they're totally fucked up from all the shit that goes down. That is DEFINITELY something that needs to change...
It's not so much being "allowed" as "necessitated," we have already dipped into our reserves to give the active duty soldiers as few tours as possible, it's just a mess in there. Despite how messed up a lot of the people may be though, they're driven (mostly) by a desire to uphold our country's values and what they believe is right, and to most of us, it means serving (and potentially dying). But I assure you, the military doesn't WANT us there. A tired soldier on his sixth tour is much closer to dead than a soldier on his second. They do their best to cycle it, but the military is pretty starved for recruits right now, at least that's what I believe.
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On January 12 2012 11:39 cz wrote:
If this is what is bad, we're doing good. Refer to the history of any war and you'll find things infinitely worse than peeing on enemy dead.
Exactly what I said a page ago. This is nothing compared to the gruesome things that have happened in previous wars.
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On January 12 2012 11:41 Alryk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 11:34 Mohdoo wrote:On January 12 2012 11:27 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:On January 12 2012 11:24 FuzzyJAM wrote:On January 12 2012 11:19 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:
Sorry, guys, but "winning the hearts and minds" of the population is not the soldier's job. His job is to shoot where his CO tells him to shoot, kill who his CO tells him to kill, and be a nasty, crude, rude, and generally unpleasant mother-fucker.
People are making WAAAAAAAY too big a deal about this... If all a soldier's job is to kill people who he's been told to kill then it's an exceptionally dishonourable job. You can't have things both ways. I can and do have it both ways. A good soldier follows the lawful orders of his CO without question or hesitation. If his CO orders him to kill a target, he has a duty to kill that target as quickly and efficiently as possible. No job is honorable or dishonorable taken by itself. Only the one who is doing it can make it honorable or dishonorable. In this instance, what the soldiers did was gross, but hardly shocking or even all that disrespectful. I don't see how shooting someone is okay, but then peeing on them is "so horrible!" Desecration of a corpse is legally defined as war crime. On January 12 2012 11:25 Alryk wrote:On January 12 2012 11:24 Mohdoo wrote:On January 12 2012 11:22 Tegin wrote:
This incident doesn't represent every Marine, nor the USMC in general. Damn technology. Damn technology? Technology is the reason these pitiful people will be brought to justice. Technology is the reason people become aware of this disgraceful behavior. I think he's talking about how the media tends to just show the ridiculously awful side of things and never the good side, not that he's disagreeing with you Also: did I answer your question well enough? If you have something else to ask please feel free. Yes, you did, thank you. Its shocking to hear that soldiers are allowed to serve more than the recommended amount. I can imagine that after a while, they're totally fucked up from all the shit that goes down. That is DEFINITELY something that needs to change... It's not so much being "allowed" as "necessitated," we have already dipped into our reserves to give the active duty soldiers as few tours as possible, it's just a mess in there. Despite how messed up a lot of the people may be though, they're driven (mostly) by a desire to uphold our country's values and what they believe is right, and to most of us, it means serving (and potentially dying). But I assure you, the military doesn't WANT us there. A tired soldier on his sixth tour is much closer to dead than a soldier on his second. They do their best to cycle it, but the military is pretty starved for recruits right now, at least that's what I believe.
Maybe if we didn't insist on having hundreds of thousands of occupying forces in non-threatening countries like Germany and Japan, we wouldn't be so starved though?
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On January 12 2012 11:42 Tegin wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 11:39 cz wrote:
If this is what is bad, we're doing good. Refer to the history of any war and you'll find things infinitely worse than peeing on enemy dead. Exactly what I said a page ago. This is nothing compared to the gruesome things that have happened in previous wars.
Yeah and it used to be common to stone a woman for being an adulteress. I guess anything I do now to mine which is less severe than that is excused, 'cause it used to worse, right?
Seriously that's the argument? People used to do worse stuff so this is okay?
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On January 12 2012 11:43 RoosterSamurai wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 11:41 Alryk wrote:On January 12 2012 11:34 Mohdoo wrote:On January 12 2012 11:27 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:On January 12 2012 11:24 FuzzyJAM wrote:On January 12 2012 11:19 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:
Sorry, guys, but "winning the hearts and minds" of the population is not the soldier's job. His job is to shoot where his CO tells him to shoot, kill who his CO tells him to kill, and be a nasty, crude, rude, and generally unpleasant mother-fucker.
People are making WAAAAAAAY too big a deal about this... If all a soldier's job is to kill people who he's been told to kill then it's an exceptionally dishonourable job. You can't have things both ways. I can and do have it both ways. A good soldier follows the lawful orders of his CO without question or hesitation. If his CO orders him to kill a target, he has a duty to kill that target as quickly and efficiently as possible. No job is honorable or dishonorable taken by itself. Only the one who is doing it can make it honorable or dishonorable. In this instance, what the soldiers did was gross, but hardly shocking or even all that disrespectful. I don't see how shooting someone is okay, but then peeing on them is "so horrible!" Desecration of a corpse is legally defined as war crime. On January 12 2012 11:25 Alryk wrote:On January 12 2012 11:24 Mohdoo wrote:On January 12 2012 11:22 Tegin wrote:
This incident doesn't represent every Marine, nor the USMC in general. Damn technology. Damn technology? Technology is the reason these pitiful people will be brought to justice. Technology is the reason people become aware of this disgraceful behavior. I think he's talking about how the media tends to just show the ridiculously awful side of things and never the good side, not that he's disagreeing with you Also: did I answer your question well enough? If you have something else to ask please feel free. Yes, you did, thank you. Its shocking to hear that soldiers are allowed to serve more than the recommended amount. I can imagine that after a while, they're totally fucked up from all the shit that goes down. That is DEFINITELY something that needs to change... It's not so much being "allowed" as "necessitated," we have already dipped into our reserves to give the active duty soldiers as few tours as possible, it's just a mess in there. Despite how messed up a lot of the people may be though, they're driven (mostly) by a desire to uphold our country's values and what they believe is right, and to most of us, it means serving (and potentially dying). But I assure you, the military doesn't WANT us there. A tired soldier on his sixth tour is much closer to dead than a soldier on his second. They do their best to cycle it, but the military is pretty starved for recruits right now, at least that's what I believe. Maybe if we didn't insist on having hundreds of thousands of occupying forces in non-threatening countries like Germany and Japan, we wouldn't be so starved though?
I'm not too familiar with Germany, but I am definitely ok with soldiers being in Japan and Korea. North Korea is a pretty damn big threat. One of my friends who was in Korea was speaking with korean soldiers who told them that if we weren't there and North Korea staged an "all out attack" on South Korea, they'd survive for about an hour, and North Korea would have Seoul within a day. Japan also needs protection from us there, although I'm pretty sure we also have a still standing treaty from WW2 that keeps soldiers there.
Plus, if SK fell, what would happen to GSL?
Edit: I feel like "hundreds of thousands" is a bit of an overstatement, I think it's more like eighty thousand total, but I could be wrong.
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I hope you guys realize that this is a by product of their training. It is hard wired into their brain to hate their target immensely so there is not even a split second of conflicting emotion on the battlefield.
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On January 12 2012 11:42 Tegin wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 11:39 cz wrote:
If this is what is bad, we're doing good. Refer to the history of any war and you'll find things infinitely worse than peeing on enemy dead. Exactly what I said a page ago. This is nothing compared to the gruesome things that have happened in previous wars.
And like I said 3 pages ago, I can't think of a single occupying army that treated the conquered respectfully. It really sucks when stories like this come out and reflect poorly on a country's armed forces, it just goes to show humanity still sucks.
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On January 12 2012 11:45 Alryk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 11:43 RoosterSamurai wrote:On January 12 2012 11:41 Alryk wrote:On January 12 2012 11:34 Mohdoo wrote:On January 12 2012 11:27 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:On January 12 2012 11:24 FuzzyJAM wrote:On January 12 2012 11:19 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:
Sorry, guys, but "winning the hearts and minds" of the population is not the soldier's job. His job is to shoot where his CO tells him to shoot, kill who his CO tells him to kill, and be a nasty, crude, rude, and generally unpleasant mother-fucker.
People are making WAAAAAAAY too big a deal about this... If all a soldier's job is to kill people who he's been told to kill then it's an exceptionally dishonourable job. You can't have things both ways. I can and do have it both ways. A good soldier follows the lawful orders of his CO without question or hesitation. If his CO orders him to kill a target, he has a duty to kill that target as quickly and efficiently as possible. No job is honorable or dishonorable taken by itself. Only the one who is doing it can make it honorable or dishonorable. In this instance, what the soldiers did was gross, but hardly shocking or even all that disrespectful. I don't see how shooting someone is okay, but then peeing on them is "so horrible!" Desecration of a corpse is legally defined as war crime. On January 12 2012 11:25 Alryk wrote:On January 12 2012 11:24 Mohdoo wrote:On January 12 2012 11:22 Tegin wrote:
This incident doesn't represent every Marine, nor the USMC in general. Damn technology. Damn technology? Technology is the reason these pitiful people will be brought to justice. Technology is the reason people become aware of this disgraceful behavior. I think he's talking about how the media tends to just show the ridiculously awful side of things and never the good side, not that he's disagreeing with you Also: did I answer your question well enough? If you have something else to ask please feel free. Yes, you did, thank you. Its shocking to hear that soldiers are allowed to serve more than the recommended amount. I can imagine that after a while, they're totally fucked up from all the shit that goes down. That is DEFINITELY something that needs to change... It's not so much being "allowed" as "necessitated," we have already dipped into our reserves to give the active duty soldiers as few tours as possible, it's just a mess in there. Despite how messed up a lot of the people may be though, they're driven (mostly) by a desire to uphold our country's values and what they believe is right, and to most of us, it means serving (and potentially dying). But I assure you, the military doesn't WANT us there. A tired soldier on his sixth tour is much closer to dead than a soldier on his second. They do their best to cycle it, but the military is pretty starved for recruits right now, at least that's what I believe. Maybe if we didn't insist on having hundreds of thousands of occupying forces in non-threatening countries like Germany and Japan, we wouldn't be so starved though? I'm not too familiar with Germany, but I am definitely ok with soldiers being in Japan and Korea. North Korea is a pretty damn big threat. One of my friends who was in Korea was speaking with korean soldiers who told them that if we weren't there and North Korea staged an "all out attack" on South Korea, they'd survive for about an hour, and North Korea would have Seoul within a day. Japan also needs protection from us there, although I'm pretty sure we also have a still standing treaty from WW2 that keeps soldiers there. Plus, if SK fell, what would happen to GSL?
I don't disagree with you, but even with us being in Korea and Japan, if North Korea decides to go all out and attack South Korea, all of our initial forces would most likely still be wiped out, and we'd have to re-invade just to push the NK's back.
And we have guaranteed Japan protection from other countries since WW2, but honestly, I could see the US breaking that treaty if it ends up leaving our land too unprotected. I'm very confident we would abandon Japan if China tried to invade it.
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On January 12 2012 11:40 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:
Why are you so obsessed with attacking my person instead of my arguments? Don't answer that, just think about it for a while, then think about what you are defending and what you are condemning.
That being said, obviously this thread isn't going anywhere. A lot of people who aren't in the military and never will be pontificating about what soldiers should think... yeah.. that sounds pretty unproductive...
Ok. I get your point. But please reply to this post by Rooster
We're not there to annihilate the Iraqi's and their culture. We're there to bring peace to their land. Regardless of whether or not I agree with the war, one thing I do know is that shooting their people and pissing on them is certainly not a good way to make them like us or democracy more... It's barbaric actions like this that can cause more young Iraqi men to want to defend their country against the occupying forces.
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Only in the U.S would you hear about this. This is sick and disgust
ing.period.
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On January 12 2012 11:44 diophan wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 11:42 Tegin wrote:On January 12 2012 11:39 cz wrote:
If this is what is bad, we're doing good. Refer to the history of any war and you'll find things infinitely worse than peeing on enemy dead. Exactly what I said a page ago. This is nothing compared to the gruesome things that have happened in previous wars. Yeah and it used to be common to stone a woman for being an adulteress. I guess anything I do now to mine which is less severe than that is excused, 'cause it used to worse, right? Seriously that's the argument? People used to do worse stuff so this is okay?
Never meant to imply this behavior is "okay". It isn't any any sane human being knows this. But looking at previous wars and the war crimes that have been committed this is nothing.
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On January 12 2012 11:47 RoosterSamurai wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 11:45 Alryk wrote:On January 12 2012 11:43 RoosterSamurai wrote:On January 12 2012 11:41 Alryk wrote:On January 12 2012 11:34 Mohdoo wrote:On January 12 2012 11:27 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:On January 12 2012 11:24 FuzzyJAM wrote:On January 12 2012 11:19 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:
Sorry, guys, but "winning the hearts and minds" of the population is not the soldier's job. His job is to shoot where his CO tells him to shoot, kill who his CO tells him to kill, and be a nasty, crude, rude, and generally unpleasant mother-fucker.
People are making WAAAAAAAY too big a deal about this... If all a soldier's job is to kill people who he's been told to kill then it's an exceptionally dishonourable job. You can't have things both ways. I can and do have it both ways. A good soldier follows the lawful orders of his CO without question or hesitation. If his CO orders him to kill a target, he has a duty to kill that target as quickly and efficiently as possible. No job is honorable or dishonorable taken by itself. Only the one who is doing it can make it honorable or dishonorable. In this instance, what the soldiers did was gross, but hardly shocking or even all that disrespectful. I don't see how shooting someone is okay, but then peeing on them is "so horrible!" Desecration of a corpse is legally defined as war crime. On January 12 2012 11:25 Alryk wrote:On January 12 2012 11:24 Mohdoo wrote:On January 12 2012 11:22 Tegin wrote:
This incident doesn't represent every Marine, nor the USMC in general. Damn technology. Damn technology? Technology is the reason these pitiful people will be brought to justice. Technology is the reason people become aware of this disgraceful behavior. I think he's talking about how the media tends to just show the ridiculously awful side of things and never the good side, not that he's disagreeing with you Also: did I answer your question well enough? If you have something else to ask please feel free. Yes, you did, thank you. Its shocking to hear that soldiers are allowed to serve more than the recommended amount. I can imagine that after a while, they're totally fucked up from all the shit that goes down. That is DEFINITELY something that needs to change... It's not so much being "allowed" as "necessitated," we have already dipped into our reserves to give the active duty soldiers as few tours as possible, it's just a mess in there. Despite how messed up a lot of the people may be though, they're driven (mostly) by a desire to uphold our country's values and what they believe is right, and to most of us, it means serving (and potentially dying). But I assure you, the military doesn't WANT us there. A tired soldier on his sixth tour is much closer to dead than a soldier on his second. They do their best to cycle it, but the military is pretty starved for recruits right now, at least that's what I believe. Maybe if we didn't insist on having hundreds of thousands of occupying forces in non-threatening countries like Germany and Japan, we wouldn't be so starved though? I'm not too familiar with Germany, but I am definitely ok with soldiers being in Japan and Korea. North Korea is a pretty damn big threat. One of my friends who was in Korea was speaking with korean soldiers who told them that if we weren't there and North Korea staged an "all out attack" on South Korea, they'd survive for about an hour, and North Korea would have Seoul within a day. Japan also needs protection from us there, although I'm pretty sure we also have a still standing treaty from WW2 that keeps soldiers there. Plus, if SK fell, what would happen to GSL? I don't disagree with you, but even with us being in Korea and Japan, if North Korea decides to go all out and attack South Korea, all of our initial forces would most likely still be wiped out, and we'd have to re-invade just to push the NK's back. And we have guaranteed Japan protection from other countries since WW2, but honestly, I could see the US breaking that treaty if it ends up leaving our land too unprotected. I'm very confident we would abandon Japan if China tried to invade it.
Nah, I believe we are more than equipped to defend off of North Korea by themselves. Don't forget how far behind us in technology they are, as well as the power of our navy in the area. We wouldn't be fighting with "just" soldiers.
If china invaded Japan... one, they would destroy the world's economy. 2) I find that hard to believe. What would the point of any political alliance ever be? China doesn't WANT to invade Japan, if they do, they crush their own economy.
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Can't we just look at the other "US soldiers did something bad" threads? Because this is not only getting old, it's getting to be the same annoying discussion over and over.
Why can't everyone just not jump on the first opportunity for bashing? Why can't we just keep this out of here?
This is the SAME GODDAMN argument EVERY other week, and it's getting freaking tiring by now watching TL devolve into a bunch of bashers and bash-nots.
Just stop talking about this. Please.
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On January 12 2012 11:35 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:
I didn't say that it wasn't disrespectful. My point is
Why are you expecting killers to be respectful to people they just killed?
Why do soldiers have to be "respectful"?
Where did you all get this idea that the military is happy fun time filled with a bunch of people who are deep thinkers who are constantly pontificating about their love and respect for their enemy? That is some pure hollywood BS right there.
"Persons taking no active part in hostilities, including military persons who have ceased to be active as a result of sickness, injury, or detention, should be treated humanely and that the following acts are prohibited:
violence to life and person, in particular murder of all kinds, mutilation, cruel treatment and torture;"
taken from the Geneva convention. pretty sure we can agree once you kill them they stop taking an active part in hostilities and then urinating on them counts as cruel treatment.
On January 12 2012 11:52 Praetorial wrote:
Can't we just look at the other "US soldiers did something bad" threads? Because this is not only getting old, it's getting to be the same annoying discussion over and over.
Why can't everyone just not jump on the first opportunity for bashing? Why can't we just keep this out of here?
This is the SAME GODDAMN argument EVERY other week, and it's getting freaking tiring by now watching TL devolve into a bunch of bashers and bash-nots.
Just stop talking about this. Please.
i dont think the word forum means what you think it means
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On January 12 2012 10:12 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 09:58 Mohdoo wrote:Source: http://www.cnn.com/2012/01/11/us/video-marines-urinating/index.html?hpt=hp_t3Washington (CNN) -- A number of websites including TMZ and YouTube posted a video Wednesday showing four men dressed in U.S. Marine Corps combat gear urinating on the apparently dead bodies of three men sprawled on the ground in front of them.
One of the men says, "Have a great day, buddy." A voice asks, "You got it on the video?" to which another voice responds, "Yeah." Another jokes, "Golden, like a shower." The US government has already commented on it and are currently investigating who did this. If I may, I would like to do more than post the story, but also give my personal experience with a group of marines. A friend of my girlfriend was getting married and my girlfriend was one of the bride's maids. As such, there was a get together the day before the wedding at their home for the brides maids and best men etc. As the boyfriend of a bride's maid, I had the pleasure of coming along as well. The man who she was marrying was a marine, and all of his best men were also marines who served together in Iraq or Afghanistan, I can't recall which. When I arrived, they were playing Resident Evil 4, I think. They would joke about how they pretended that the zombies were Muslims, and how they absolutely loved killing Muslims. One of them specifically mentioned how it made them feel amazing to kill Muslims, followed by the rest agreeing and talking about it. I was just kinda sitting on a chair in the living room, as they all sat on a couch. I was speechless and couldn't really wrap my mind around the fact that they meant what they were saying and really felt that way. They continued talking about how they hated Muslims and how much they miss killing them in the war. I could tell that they were being serious and saw nothing wrong with what they were saying. I know its hard to really describe, but I could tell they were being quite serious. The bride and groom were very religious, and the other marines seemed to be the same. I know that some, far from all, Christians see Muslim faith as a competitor of sorts. Nevertheless, the most disgusting behavior I've ever had the displeasure of of watching. I don't like how just about any physically capable person can become a marine. I don't like that there are such low psychological and mental requirements. If someone is given, they need to be an outstanding person. The people shown in this video and the group of marines I described are certainly far from DECENT people. They bring shame to my country and I wish that there was more being done to prevent such people from serving. Note: I do not feel these in the video or the ones I met in person represent Marines or the US military as a whole. However, these people were issued guns and were put in situations where they had the potential to harm civilians. This is beyond unacceptable. It shouldn't be so easy to be a marine. There have been similar incidents in the past as well. 1. What is wrong with pissing on bodies? I mean, it's unprofessional, and rude, but is there anything really morally wrong with it? It's a peace of dead meat. The person isn't inside that body any more. 2. Why include the ridiculous anecdotal story about some marines joking around while playing a game? I don't see how this connects with the article at all. Furthermore, I have heard a thousand variations of this same story a thousand times, and so that makes me wonder why you put it here even more. 3. You don't have to be nice to be a solider. On the contrary, the military would probably prefer having the nasty guy to the nice guy. The nice guy is good, but when it comes time to blow some people up and kill some people, you don't want someone who has a problem with killing. You want someone that wants to kill, likes to kill, and will kill. 4. It isn't easy being a soldier. We need soldiers though, and they don't need to be great people. They need to be killers. Killers, often, are not the greatest people. There aren't enough nice people who are also killers to fill the shoes that we need. Life sucks, move on.
Are you retarded? I know one of the commanders for jtf2 special forces in canada and they wont accept anyone into the military that like killing people. Pissing on dead people is disrespectful, humiliating and all around bad?..
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On January 12 2012 11:53 turdburgler wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 11:35 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:
I didn't say that it wasn't disrespectful. My point is
Why are you expecting killers to be respectful to people they just killed?
Why do soldiers have to be "respectful"?
Where did you all get this idea that the military is happy fun time filled with a bunch of people who are deep thinkers who are constantly pontificating about their love and respect for their enemy? That is some pure hollywood BS right there. "Persons taking no active part in hostilities, including military persons who have ceased to be active as a result of sickness, injury, or detention, should be treated humanely and that the following acts are prohibited: violence to life and person, in particular murder of all kinds, mutilation, cruel treatment and torture;" taken from the Geneva convention. pretty sure we can agree once you kill them they stop taking an active part in hostilities and then urinating on them counts as cruel treatment. Show nested quote +On January 12 2012 11:52 Praetorial wrote:
Can't we just look at the other "US soldiers did something bad" threads? Because this is not only getting old, it's getting to be the same annoying discussion over and over.
Why can't everyone just not jump on the first opportunity for bashing? Why can't we just keep this out of here?
This is the SAME GODDAMN argument EVERY other week, and it's getting freaking tiring by now watching TL devolve into a bunch of bashers and bash-nots.
Just stop talking about this. Please. i dont think the word forum means what you think it means
Yeah, having an open forum is great, but when it ALWAYS gets to the point of "Israel is a puppet of the US(or vice versa)-or not" and "US is an empire that just wants to push everyone around-no it's not!", it promotes no discussion, and I get to see the worst brought out.
Seriously, this thread oughtn't to exist.
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It's really tiresome seeing these threads. They always get blown up into huge deals and people take them as an opportunity to comment on an entire group of people, which is over 200,000 (according to wiki). The generalizations being made are just as ridiculous to me as any made about any kind of race or ethnicity.
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Osaka27148 Posts
Im tired of these kinds of news threads.
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EPT
