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On January 11 2012 19:45 Dephy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 19:42 KryptoStorm wrote:
Wait he stabbed him 12 times? Sure sounds like self defence, I mean hey stabbing him one time doesn't defend you does it? Oh wait.. depending where he stabbed and how deep, it wont stop them, just make them angryer.
Are you serious? Think this fight through in your head. Its not a movie they didnt circle each other and and the kid dives in 12 times to catch him before he fell to his knees and died. NO he got a hold of him and stabbed him over and over while he screamed for his life. Theres noway you can imagine this fight as him just defending himself.
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On January 11 2012 19:50 Detwiler wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 19:45 Dephy wrote:On January 11 2012 19:42 KryptoStorm wrote:
Wait he stabbed him 12 times? Sure sounds like self defence, I mean hey stabbing him one time doesn't defend you does it? Oh wait.. depending where he stabbed and how deep, it wont stop them, just make them angryer. Are you serious? Think this fight through in your head. Its not a movie they didnt circle each other and and the kid dives in 12 times to catch him before he fell to his knees and died. NO he got a hold of him and stabbed him over and over while he screamed for his life. Theres noway you can imagine this fight as him just defending himself.
did you just make that up in your head? Get help srsly.
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On January 11 2012 19:54 Dephy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 19:50 Detwiler wrote:On January 11 2012 19:45 Dephy wrote:On January 11 2012 19:42 KryptoStorm wrote:
Wait he stabbed him 12 times? Sure sounds like self defence, I mean hey stabbing him one time doesn't defend you does it? Oh wait.. depending where he stabbed and how deep, it wont stop them, just make them angryer. Are you serious? Think this fight through in your head. Its not a movie they didnt circle each other and and the kid dives in 12 times to catch him before he fell to his knees and died. NO he got a hold of him and stabbed him over and over while he screamed for his life. Theres noway you can imagine this fight as him just defending himself. did you just make that up in your head? Get help srsly.
Can you explain it as happening any other way? Yeah didn't think so.
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On January 11 2012 19:44 KryptoStorm wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 19:43 nam nam wrote:On January 11 2012 19:42 KryptoStorm wrote:
Wait he stabbed him 12 times? Sure sounds like self defence, I mean hey stabbing him one time doesn't defend you does it? Oh wait.. You clearly have read the thread. Oh wait... Well actually, the original OP didn't mention it.. thank you, come again.
The OP is not the entire thread. Read some of the actual discussion before you go making conclusions without any evidence. Just because he was stabbed 12 times doesn't mean each stab was fatal. If you're pumped up with adrenaline, a few cuts aren't going to stop you. And if you're a scared 14 year old kid, you aren't going to know how to use a knife properly, you're going to swing until your attacker stops punching you.Use your brain before you go around making a fool of yourself.
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On January 11 2012 19:55 Detwiler wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 19:54 Dephy wrote:On January 11 2012 19:50 Detwiler wrote:On January 11 2012 19:45 Dephy wrote:On January 11 2012 19:42 KryptoStorm wrote:
Wait he stabbed him 12 times? Sure sounds like self defence, I mean hey stabbing him one time doesn't defend you does it? Oh wait.. depending where he stabbed and how deep, it wont stop them, just make them angryer. Are you serious? Think this fight through in your head. Its not a movie they didnt circle each other and and the kid dives in 12 times to catch him before he fell to his knees and died. NO he got a hold of him and stabbed him over and over while he screamed for his life. Theres noway you can imagine this fight as him just defending himself. did you just make that up in your head? Get help srsly. Can you explain it as happening any other way? Yeah didn't think so.
Nuno started hitting him in the head, then Saavedra pulled out a knife and quickly stabbed him in the stomach area around dozen time(with small knife or something similar it takes couple of second), then Nuno had internal and external bleeding and died on the way to hospital.
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On January 11 2012 19:56 Golbat wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 19:44 KryptoStorm wrote:On January 11 2012 19:43 nam nam wrote:On January 11 2012 19:42 KryptoStorm wrote:
Wait he stabbed him 12 times? Sure sounds like self defence, I mean hey stabbing him one time doesn't defend you does it? Oh wait.. You clearly have read the thread. Oh wait... Well actually, the original OP didn't mention it.. thank you, come again. The OP is not the entire thread. Read some of the actual discussion before you go making conclusions without any evidence. Just because he was stabbed 12 times doesn't mean each stab was fatal. If you're pumped up with adrenaline, a few cuts aren't going to stop you. And if you're a scared 14 year old kid, you aren't going to know how to use a knife properly, you're going to swing until your attacker stops punching you.Use your brain before you go around making a fool of yourself.
On January 11 2012 19:55 Detwiler wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 19:54 Dephy wrote:On January 11 2012 19:50 Detwiler wrote:On January 11 2012 19:45 Dephy wrote:On January 11 2012 19:42 KryptoStorm wrote:
Wait he stabbed him 12 times? Sure sounds like self defence, I mean hey stabbing him one time doesn't defend you does it? Oh wait.. depending where he stabbed and how deep, it wont stop them, just make them angryer. Are you serious? Think this fight through in your head. Its not a movie they didnt circle each other and and the kid dives in 12 times to catch him before he fell to his knees and died. NO he got a hold of him and stabbed him over and over while he screamed for his life. Theres noway you can imagine this fight as him just defending himself. did you just make that up in your head? Get help srsly. Can you explain it as happening any other way? Yeah didn't think so.
Yeah, I've explained it multiple times already. The kid says he doesn't want to fight, forced into it anyways, pulls the knife to scare off his attacker, it doesn't work and he started swinging.
The idea your way of explaining it, (which is already stupid, saying a kid could hold a kid much bigger and stronger than him long enough to get twelve stabs off) is complete nonsense.
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On January 11 2012 20:00 Golbat wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 19:56 Golbat wrote:On January 11 2012 19:44 KryptoStorm wrote:On January 11 2012 19:43 nam nam wrote:On January 11 2012 19:42 KryptoStorm wrote:
Wait he stabbed him 12 times? Sure sounds like self defence, I mean hey stabbing him one time doesn't defend you does it? Oh wait.. You clearly have read the thread. Oh wait... Well actually, the original OP didn't mention it.. thank you, come again. The OP is not the entire thread. Read some of the actual discussion before you go making conclusions without any evidence. Just because he was stabbed 12 times doesn't mean each stab was fatal. If you're pumped up with adrenaline, a few cuts aren't going to stop you. And if you're a scared 14 year old kid, you aren't going to know how to use a knife properly, you're going to swing until your attacker stops punching you.Use your brain before you go around making a fool of yourself. Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 19:55 Detwiler wrote:On January 11 2012 19:54 Dephy wrote:On January 11 2012 19:50 Detwiler wrote:On January 11 2012 19:45 Dephy wrote:On January 11 2012 19:42 KryptoStorm wrote:
Wait he stabbed him 12 times? Sure sounds like self defence, I mean hey stabbing him one time doesn't defend you does it? Oh wait.. depending where he stabbed and how deep, it wont stop them, just make them angryer. Are you serious? Think this fight through in your head. Its not a movie they didnt circle each other and and the kid dives in 12 times to catch him before he fell to his knees and died. NO he got a hold of him and stabbed him over and over while he screamed for his life. Theres noway you can imagine this fight as him just defending himself. did you just make that up in your head? Get help srsly. Can you explain it as happening any other way? Yeah didn't think so. Yeah, I've explained it multiple times already. The kid says he doesn't want to fight, forced into it anyways, pulls the knife to scare off his attacker, it doesn't work and he started swinging. The idea your way of explaining it, (which is already stupid, saying a kid could hold a kid much bigger and stronger than him long enough to get twelve stabs off) is complete nonsense.
So your explanation is the bully was a gladiator and had steeled himself for a fight to the death before hand and just kept coming while being stabbed as or our poor victim backed away and kept swinging in defence huh. Yeah im sure it was just like that...
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On January 11 2012 20:02 Detwiler wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 20:00 Golbat wrote:On January 11 2012 19:56 Golbat wrote:On January 11 2012 19:44 KryptoStorm wrote:On January 11 2012 19:43 nam nam wrote:On January 11 2012 19:42 KryptoStorm wrote:
Wait he stabbed him 12 times? Sure sounds like self defence, I mean hey stabbing him one time doesn't defend you does it? Oh wait.. You clearly have read the thread. Oh wait... Well actually, the original OP didn't mention it.. thank you, come again. The OP is not the entire thread. Read some of the actual discussion before you go making conclusions without any evidence. Just because he was stabbed 12 times doesn't mean each stab was fatal. If you're pumped up with adrenaline, a few cuts aren't going to stop you. And if you're a scared 14 year old kid, you aren't going to know how to use a knife properly, you're going to swing until your attacker stops punching you.Use your brain before you go around making a fool of yourself. On January 11 2012 19:55 Detwiler wrote:On January 11 2012 19:54 Dephy wrote:On January 11 2012 19:50 Detwiler wrote:On January 11 2012 19:45 Dephy wrote:On January 11 2012 19:42 KryptoStorm wrote:
Wait he stabbed him 12 times? Sure sounds like self defence, I mean hey stabbing him one time doesn't defend you does it? Oh wait.. depending where he stabbed and how deep, it wont stop them, just make them angryer. Are you serious? Think this fight through in your head. Its not a movie they didnt circle each other and and the kid dives in 12 times to catch him before he fell to his knees and died. NO he got a hold of him and stabbed him over and over while he screamed for his life. Theres noway you can imagine this fight as him just defending himself. did you just make that up in your head? Get help srsly. Can you explain it as happening any other way? Yeah didn't think so. Yeah, I've explained it multiple times already. The kid says he doesn't want to fight, forced into it anyways, pulls the knife to scare off his attacker, it doesn't work and he started swinging. The idea your way of explaining it, (which is already stupid, saying a kid could hold a kid much bigger and stronger than him long enough to get twelve stabs off) is complete nonsense. So your explanation is the bully was a gladiator and had steeled himself for a fight to the death before hand and just kept coming while being stabbed as or our poor victim backed away and kept swinging in defence huh. Yeah im sure it was just like that...
I'm saying he was hyped up on adrenaline and the first couple cuts didn't stop him, and by the time he realized what was happening he was already dead. It's certainly more likely than him getting stabbed "over and over while he screamed for his life".
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A lot of people keep saying he stabbed 12 times, but in the court document http://media.naplesnews.com/media/static/20111230150108.pdf there's no mention multiple stabs, it just "That is when he reached into his pocket, bent forward and stabbed Dylan with his knife as the punches continued."
Did I miss something or was 12 stabs just somebody exaggerating to make his point?
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On January 11 2012 20:09 Golbat wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 20:02 Detwiler wrote:On January 11 2012 20:00 Golbat wrote:On January 11 2012 19:56 Golbat wrote:On January 11 2012 19:44 KryptoStorm wrote:On January 11 2012 19:43 nam nam wrote:On January 11 2012 19:42 KryptoStorm wrote:
Wait he stabbed him 12 times? Sure sounds like self defence, I mean hey stabbing him one time doesn't defend you does it? Oh wait.. You clearly have read the thread. Oh wait... Well actually, the original OP didn't mention it.. thank you, come again. The OP is not the entire thread. Read some of the actual discussion before you go making conclusions without any evidence. Just because he was stabbed 12 times doesn't mean each stab was fatal. If you're pumped up with adrenaline, a few cuts aren't going to stop you. And if you're a scared 14 year old kid, you aren't going to know how to use a knife properly, you're going to swing until your attacker stops punching you.Use your brain before you go around making a fool of yourself. On January 11 2012 19:55 Detwiler wrote:On January 11 2012 19:54 Dephy wrote:On January 11 2012 19:50 Detwiler wrote:On January 11 2012 19:45 Dephy wrote:On January 11 2012 19:42 KryptoStorm wrote:
Wait he stabbed him 12 times? Sure sounds like self defence, I mean hey stabbing him one time doesn't defend you does it? Oh wait.. depending where he stabbed and how deep, it wont stop them, just make them angryer. Are you serious? Think this fight through in your head. Its not a movie they didnt circle each other and and the kid dives in 12 times to catch him before he fell to his knees and died. NO he got a hold of him and stabbed him over and over while he screamed for his life. Theres noway you can imagine this fight as him just defending himself. did you just make that up in your head? Get help srsly. Can you explain it as happening any other way? Yeah didn't think so. Yeah, I've explained it multiple times already. The kid says he doesn't want to fight, forced into it anyways, pulls the knife to scare off his attacker, it doesn't work and he started swinging. The idea your way of explaining it, (which is already stupid, saying a kid could hold a kid much bigger and stronger than him long enough to get twelve stabs off) is complete nonsense. So your explanation is the bully was a gladiator and had steeled himself for a fight to the death before hand and just kept coming while being stabbed as or our poor victim backed away and kept swinging in defence huh. Yeah im sure it was just like that... I'm saying he was hyped up on adrenaline and the first couple cuts didn't stop him, and by the time he realized what was happening he was already dead. It's certainly more likely than him getting stabbed "over and over while he screamed for his life".
So its more likely that a child fought through a knife so fearlessly that by the time he realized he was in trouble enough damage had been done to kill him? Ummmm yeah not buyin that sorry.
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Yeah I have no idea where this 12 stab number comes from.
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On January 11 2012 19:56 Golbat wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2012 19:44 KryptoStorm wrote:On January 11 2012 19:43 nam nam wrote:On January 11 2012 19:42 KryptoStorm wrote:
Wait he stabbed him 12 times? Sure sounds like self defence, I mean hey stabbing him one time doesn't defend you does it? Oh wait.. You clearly have read the thread. Oh wait... Well actually, the original OP didn't mention it.. thank you, come again. The OP is not the entire thread. Read some of the actual discussion before you go making conclusions without any evidence. Just because he was stabbed 12 times doesn't mean each stab was fatal. If you're pumped up with adrenaline, a few cuts aren't going to stop you. And if you're a scared 14 year old kid, you aren't going to know how to use a knife properly, you're going to swing until your attacker stops punching you.Use your brain before you go around making a fool of yourself.
Actually I read some of the 'actual discussion' sorry for not reading all 50 or whatever pages, I mean i'm sure you did.
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On January 11 2012 19:44 KryptoStorm wrote:Nice law system America, hey some guy has a few pics of underage kids on his PC, SENTENCED TO LIFE IN PRISON. Hey some kid stabs another kid 12 times, no punishment! 
Thanks, we got it from this place called England. 
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Saavedra ... was protected under Florida's Stand Your Ground law, which stipulates that people can defend themselves if they feel threatened by any means necessary, NBC 2 reported.
First of all, i love the name of the law. Typical american name.
Second, these laws that allow people to defend themselves are ok and i agree with some of them but the last part "by any means necessary" makes this law able to be 'slightly twisted' in order to violate human rights.
I'm against death penalty and against any law that grants anyone the possibility to kill someone and get away with it via justice/courtroom twisted variations of the same law.
And finnaly, lets not forget that this case will most likely be used as an analogy in future similar cases which indirectly gives ANY KID the right to kill a colleague under the same envoirnment. Next victim of bullying that kills the bully, will most likely be released without sentence so BULLYES, BEWARE!
Ah, america... land of "freedom" ( literally ).
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Looks like self-defense to me.
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Bringing a knife to school is of course completely unacceptable, no matter the reasoning. He should've brought the bullying to light with the proper authorities rather than take matters into his own hands.
The kid should get counseling and whatnot, definitely.
I'm shocked at how many in this thread think it's okay to kill people if it's in self defense. Killing is still completely unacceptable and wrong. Badong, even.
Only in the US, I suppose.
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On January 11 2012 21:08 Reggiegigas wrote:
Bringing a knife to school is of course completely unacceptable, no matter the reasoning. He should've brought the bullying to light with the proper authorities rather than take matters into his own hands.
The kid should get counseling and whatnot, definitely.
I'm shocked at how many in this thread think it's okay to kill people if it's in self defense. Killing is still completely unacceptable and wrong. Badong, even.
Only in the US, I suppose.
Wait really? You would let somebody kill you because its wrong to kill them?
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On January 11 2012 21:08 Reggiegigas wrote:
Bringing a knife to school is of course completely unacceptable, no matter the reasoning. He should've brought the bullying to light with the proper authorities rather than take matters into his own hands.
The kid should get counseling and whatnot, definitely.
I'm shocked at how many in this thread think it's okay to kill people if it's in self defense. Killing is still completely unacceptable and wrong. Badong, even.
Only in the US, I suppose.
I'm pretty sure police forces in every country will use deadly force to save lives. How is this different than killing in self-defense? People should kill to protect others but not themselves? If you're certain that a killer is only going to kill one person (you), be the bigger man and revoke your right to existence? That's taking selflessness to a fairly extreme level. Or does it not matter how many people a killer plans on taking out - just take the moral high ground that deadly force should never be used, even to stop someone on a killing spree? That's a fairly odd position as well.
Killing is completely unacceptable and wrong - unless it prevents even more killing. I cannot imagine ethnic groups in conflict deciding which should be rolled under and killed simply based on which has a smaller population - when a single person or group of people have their existence threatened, they defend themselves, sometimes with deadly force. They are not wrong to do so.
As far as this particular case goes, plenty of people have already raised the real question here: what was the kid doing carrying a knife to school? Most schools, even in the US, have zero tolerance policies regarding weapons. I suppose all of the articles so far cited may simply not find his expulsion / lack of expulsion from school irrelevant - but it's surprising it's not mentioned.
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On January 11 2012 21:08 Reggiegigas wrote:
Bringing a knife to school is of course completely unacceptable, no matter the reasoning. He should've brought the bullying to light with the proper authorities rather than take matters into his own hands.
The kid should get counseling and whatnot, definitely.
I'm shocked at how many in this thread think it's okay to kill people if it's in self defense. Killing is still completely unacceptable and wrong. Badong, even.
Only in the US, I suppose.
1) As if "bringing bullying to the proper authorities" always solves these issues... Just shows how ignorant you are. It also have little relevance to the actual event. Even if it could have been prevented by other means, it have little meaning regarding the actual event itself.
2) Ok he should get counseling. What have that got to do with the situtation?
3) People are arguing that you are allowed to use deadly force in self defense. That doesn't mean you think the bully deserved to die. Lets imagine a theoretical scenario if someone comes at you with a knife and you have a gun, you wouldn't shoot him? If he ends up dying that is very unfortunate but it doesn't make the act of defending oneself unjust.
4) How you get this to a US issue is beyong me and also show your ignorance. These laws exist in one form of another in most countries, the major destinction usually when reasonable force turns into excessive force.
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EPT
