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This topic will highlight a different point of view and aim to challenge ESPORT fans over questionable issues and view them under a different light. This topics aim is to consider 'all possibilities' and open your mind to the little things that do matter to some people.
On December 15 2011 06:33 GOMTV wrote:
There seems to be great confusion regarding an incident involving NaNiWa that took place on the second day of Blizzard Cup. We would like to clarify this matter and hereby announce our official stance towards the incident.
GOMTV announces a great confusion, but this may simply not be the case. Please do not be influenced by GOMTV's comments or responses as they may be simply untrue and attempt to take advantage of the community's good will.
As an organisation, when you announce a decision you provide reasoning behind the decision the moment it bcomes public. What you are seeing here, is a more calculated and knifing approach designed to:
Analyse the community's response before deciding upon an announcement which publicly benefits the current position of GOMTV which aims to caters for the majority of the community in a way in which GOM walks out the winner and community leader
Do not be fooled.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here is the reasons behind the process in which GOMTV 'REMOVES & REPLACES Naniwa':
A) Maintain GOMTV's 'presence or stature' of being the worldwide premier tournament.
Did anyone ever stop to wonder as to why the MLG & GSL transfer every stopped? Step back for a moment and keep an open mind.
The majority of viewers GOMTV is aiming to attract is the worldwide market, however GOMTV did not think very strategically when they agreed to player transfers with MLG. If any of you have noticed the amount of viewers watching MLG & GOMTV, you will notice that MLG has only increased its viewership and GOMTV's viewership has declined. There are some legitimate reasons behind this:
1) By agreeing to the player transfer, MLG is able to take 'the very best korean players' and the 'very best foreigners' all at once. The barriers of playing in the United States are far less than the barriers in participating in GSL. This means that you will recieve a much greater and broader range of players worldwide competing, which in turn creates much greater value for the viewer. Additionally, the entire event is cast in ENGLISH! A popular language no doubt!
2) Once upon a time, GSL was 'THE TOURNAMENT'.. And why do you think this is? Very simply, the best of the best remained in Korea and this meant that to see the greatest game play, you would have to tune in to the GSL during an awkward time of day. This gave it 'prestige, desirability and a competitive advantage in having all the best players and talent delivering high quality starcraft 2 gaming'.
HOWEVER!
The market leaders are changing! Yes, MLG is now closer to the market leader in providing high quality value and entertainment for Esports Viewers. For some time now, MLG has been stealing marketshare of the starcraft 2 viewership numbers. Why watch 'all' the koreans when you can just watch the very best vs players who you know locally, directly or someone from your own region of the world? I can keep talking about this, but lets get down to business.
This move by GOMTV is a POWER BASED MOVE and has MOTIVES behind it. What this move is:
- A slap in the face to MLG, "We do not have to honour our agreement with you.. And this publicity helps us to achieve this.. It means less top koreans participating in your events and more focus on our events.
- Sends a message that GOTMV will not put up with Naniwa but MLG/other tournaments will, hence attempting to 'establish itself as the premier tournament or maintain higher status within the minds of its market' We are above dealing with conflict mentality.
- Cultural Discrimination: Both Idra and Sen have been affiliated with Korea for some time now, and Naniwa has not. Naniwa broke NO RULES, if GOMTV were not interested in playing this move to their advantage, they would simply modify the rules for future events. GOMTV is telling us all, that WHEN THEY FEEEEEL like it, they will disadvantage you. In many countries & regions around the world, the rules are what matter, and if the rules do not suffice, you change them.
Korean e-sports fans generally share this understanding of the term 'professional athlete’ or in this case 'progamer', and might be less likely to tolerate a deviation from these core values compared to overseas communities. [B]
According to this quote, Naniwa is being discriminated against based upon 'Korean Values' rather than any legitimate issue. If Naniwa wants to probe rush, then its his strategic choice to do so. He even GGd, infact someone who just 'leaves the game' is more or less likely worse. Additionally, how about all those players who 'don't leave the game when its over'... What Naniwa did may be frowned upon, but it was clearly within his right to do what he did, and GOMTV is just using this 'legitimate match' to further there own agenda and discriminate against Naniwa.
[b]
Do not be fooled by GOM's true motives, they are an organisation and are out to profit in both the short term and the long term. It can be very easy to just go along and say 'I support GOM and back them 100%'. Yes they may support community interests, but this does not mean you should not consider all possibilities on the table, GOM will be adapting a strategy against MLG as a competitor in 2012, wait and see.
Player Rights have not been considered in this topic, and Naniwa would have a 'Strong Legal Standing' in regards to this incident should it go to court.
NaNiWa has however purposefully not tried his best and shown this in a disrespectful manner. This was not only disappointing for his opponent NesTea and the GSL, but also for the many fans who had anticipated a great match. This behavior does not match with the definition of a progamer as laid out in the paragraph above.
Once again, Naniwa is being discriminated against by Korean culture or Corporate power play. I QUOTE: 'as laid out in the paragraph above'. If it DOES NOT MATCH with your paragraph above, then please feel free to publicize this, rather than defining your own principles as you go along. Whatever suits your needs is your definition according to how you have handled this. I am deeply disappointed in GOM for the way it is acting.
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this is ridiculous, a ton of assumptions and false accusation without any real evidence.
For starter, prove that GSL has a decline in viewership, since apparently this is where you start off rest about weird power move mumble
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baseless conspiracy theory
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On December 16 2011 21:55 thesideshow wrote:
baseless conspiracy theory
signed
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50600 Posts
wowowow what a conspiracy theory...too bad its just that.
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United States23455 Posts
OP, you need to shut down the computer, go for a walk and remind yourself that everything isn't a conspiracy.
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Yeah, this is junk my friend. You are not making any real argument, just accusations.
...also...aren't we done talking about this yet? Come on, it's the Holidays!
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Judging simply by the ammount of caps and bold I'm having a hard time taking this seriously.
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This post is like one of the worst I've ever seen, anywhere.
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Don't make a new thread for that, you're opinion isn't more important than everyone elses.
And Caps don't make stuff more right.
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
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On December 16 2011 21:58 ckaren wrote:
Judging simply by the ammount of caps and bold I'm having a hard time taking this seriously.
DONT BE FOOLED DOOD :p
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Stop making new threads about this
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On my old forum we had a massive conspiracy theorist who used to tell us that we needed to move to Brazil to avoid the Illuminati influence before they enslaved us.
He was more interesting.
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somehow this reminds me of the article that tried to create a big hoo ha about Attenborough's Frozen Planet that used a few zoo scenes....
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ESPORTS has been officially rocked yet again.
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This is... wow. Just typing out all the reasons why this post is retarded would take way more time than it's worth. Also, I see you have your location as Australia.... is English actually your first language? /facepalm
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Although I don't agree with this post 100%, nor do I agree with the creation of a new thread on the matter. There is already a discussion on whether GOM was acting in good faith when it changed it's seeding placements for the League Exchange Program with MLG in regards to providence (without notifying MLG) in the thread regarding MLG's statement on the matter.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=295377
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Singapore147 Posts
i opened this hoping it was some sort of balanced piece and instead found out that alternative viewpoint = excuse to bash GOM. seriously learn to respect other people's values. just because you don't respect them doesn't make them dumb, especially if you are in their country participating in their tournament. and they may be 'korean' values but a lot of people who aren't korean or even asian find what naniwa did inexcusable. he himself has apologized. lets move on.
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I love it when some idiot thinks their opinion is worthy of a new thread.
It never is.
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An alternate alternate alternate alternate viewpoint?
I think there's a general thread for discussing this already. >.>
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On December 16 2011 21:59 Rekrul wrote:
ban
/signed
This OP is hilarious. We don't need another new thread about this either >.<
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and as we all know: sportsmanship is a cultural traitmark of Korea and found nowhere else besides it.
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On December 16 2011 21:55 thesideshow wrote:
baseless conspiracy theory
agreed.
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+ Show Spoiler +On December 16 2011 21:50 Azz wrote:This topic will highlight a different point of view and aim to challenge ESPORT fans over questionable issues and view them under a different light. This topics aim is to consider 'all possibilities' and open your mind to the little things that do matter to some people. Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 06:33 GOMTV wrote:
There seems to be great confusion regarding an incident involving NaNiWa that took place on the second day of Blizzard Cup. We would like to clarify this matter and hereby announce our official stance towards the incident. GOMTV announces a great confusion, but this may simply not be the case. Please do not be influenced by GOMTV's comments or responses as they may be simply untrue and attempt to take advantage of the community's good will. As an organisation, when you announce a decision you provide reasoning behind the decision the moment it bcomes public. What you are seeing here, is a more calculated and knifing approach designed to:
Analyse the community's response before deciding upon an announcement which publicly benefits the current position of GOMTV which aims to caters for the majority of the community in a way in which GOM walks out the winner and community leaderDo not be fooled.-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Here is the reasons behind the process in which GOMTV 'REMOVES & REPLACES Naniwa': A) Maintain GOMTV's 'presence or stature' of being the worldwide premier tournament.
Did anyone ever stop to wonder as to why the MLG & GSL transfer every stopped? Step back for a moment and keep an open mind. The majority of viewers GOMTV is aiming to attract is the worldwide market, however GOMTV did not think very strategically when they agreed to player transfers with MLG. If any of you have noticed the amount of viewers watching MLG & GOMTV, you will notice that MLG has only increased its viewership and GOMTV's viewership has declined. There are some legitimate reasons behind this: 1) By agreeing to the player transfer, MLG is able to take 'the very best korean players' and the 'very best foreigners' all at once. The barriers of playing in the United States are far less than the barriers in participating in GSL. This means that you will recieve a much greater and broader range of players worldwide competing, which in turn creates much greater value for the viewer. Additionally, the entire event is cast in ENGLISH! A popular language no doubt! 2) Once upon a time, GSL was 'THE TOURNAMENT'.. And why do you think this is? Very simply, the best of the best remained in Korea and this meant that to see the greatest game play, you would have to tune in to the GSL during an awkward time of day. This gave it 'prestige, desirability and a competitive advantage in having all the best players and talent delivering high quality starcraft 2 gaming'. HOWEVER! The market leaders are changing! Yes, MLG is now closer to the market leader in providing high quality value and entertainment for Esports Viewers. For some time now, MLG has been stealing marketshare of the starcraft 2 viewership numbers. Why watch 'all' the koreans when you can just watch the very best vs players who you know locally, directly or someone from your own region of the world? I can keep talking about this, but lets get down to business. This move by GOMTV is a POWER BASED MOVE and has MOTIVES behind it. What this move is: - A slap in the face to MLG, "We do not have to honour our agreement with you.. And this publicity helps us to achieve this.. It means less top koreans participating in your events and more focus on our events. - Sends a message that GOTMV will not put up with Naniwa but MLG/other tournaments will, hence attempting to ' establish itself as the premier tournament or maintain higher status within the minds of its market' We are above dealing with conflict mentality. - Cultural Discrimination: Both Idra and Sen have been affiliated with Korea for some time now, and Naniwa has not. Naniwa broke NO RULES, if GOMTV were not interested in playing this move to their advantage, they would simply modify the rules for future events. GOMTV is telling us all, that WHEN THEY FEEEEEL like it, they will disadvantage you. In many countries & regions around the world, the rules are what matter, and if the rules do not suffice, you change them. Show nested quote +Korean e-sports fans generally share this understanding of the term 'professional athlete’ or in this case 'progamer', and might be less likely to tolerate a deviation from these core values compared to overseas communities. [B] According to this quote, Naniwa is being discriminated against based upon 'Korean Values' rather than any legitimate issue. If Naniwa wants to probe rush, then its his strategic choice to do so. He even GGd, infact someone who just 'leaves the game' is more or less likely worse. Additionally, how about all those players who 'don't leave the game when its over'... What Naniwa did may be frowned upon, but it was clearly within his right to do what he did, and GOMTV is just using this 'legitimate match' to further there own agenda and discriminate against Naniwa. [b]
Do not be fooled by GOM's true motives, they are an organisation and are out to profit in both the short term and the long term. It can be very easy to just go along and say 'I support GOM and back them 100%'. Yes they may support community interests, but this does not mean you should not consider all possibilities on the table, GOM will be adapting a strategy against MLG as a competitor in 2012, wait and see. Player Rights have not been considered in this topic, and Naniwa would have a 'Strong Legal Standing' in regards to this incident should it go to court.Show nested quote +NaNiWa has however purposefully not tried his best and shown this in a disrespectful manner. This was not only disappointing for his opponent NesTea and the GSL, but also for the many fans who had anticipated a great match. This behavior does not match with the definition of a progamer as laid out in the paragraph above. Once again, Naniwa is being discriminated against by Korean culture or Corporate power play. I QUOTE: 'as laid out in the paragraph above'. If it DOES NOT MATCH with your paragraph above, then please feel free to publicize this, rather than defining your own principles as you go along. Whatever suits your needs is your definition according to how you have handled this. I am deeply disappointed in GOM for the way it is acting.
Wow. You are taking this WAYYYYY too far. This isn't some sort of soap opera.
GomTV's relationship with MLG is different from your perspective of it. MLG simply allows koreans to bask in the light of international community while GomTV is no doubt a place where foreigners and koreans alike duke it out for the top places. Also, it serves as a place for foreigners to be exposed to the korean community. That's why, some of the koreans appear in MLG on their own will. Top koreans invited by MLG serves as a way to promote the tournament, but the main focus is on how up and coming foreigners take on those powerhouses.
Naniwa's case can be viewed by both sides of the coin. He is BOTH wrong and right. Why so?
Being a foreigner himself, he is excused from those korean values and tradition. This makes him right in a sense as that game with nestea would have gone nowhere if it was other foreigners (excluding white-ra, he is too kind). What would IdrA do in that situation? He would be hot-headed, doing cheeses.
However, being in a KOREAN tournament, this implies that Naniwa have to be mannered and stuff, so that it shows he respect his opponents etc etc, therefore making him wrong in this situation.
Both koreans and foreigners have their own stand in this incident as this is traditions VS modern ideas.
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New threads are still being made about this? ....
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blablabla conspiracy theory blablabla
beatingthedeadhorse.gif
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Every time I read a conspiracy theory, I feel bad for the people that wrote them 
I really do.
I think it's time for you to take your head out of the sand and look around you - the world is actually a wonderful place.
As for all that stuff you wrote - I don't even know where to start man. No, I don't think GomTV made this call out of monetary reasons or to bitchslap MLG. Yes, Naniwa didn't broke any rules, but what he did was offensive not only towards GomTV, Nestea or the korean audience in general. I got offended by this as well. In fact, I got so mad, that if I were in Mr. Chae' shoes, I would've applied at least 6 months ban to Naniwa and then pushed all possible buttons in my relation with MLG to make them follow my example.
Naniwa's play before that game was brilliant and only luck denied him to be a victor. He has nothing to be ashamed of those 3 losses. They were darn good games. But that final game vs. Nestea ... Seriously, he needs help.
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Russian Federation676 Posts
I think its quite true and I dont believe GOM much either. Its clear they're getting to the top of their industry and will crush any competitive company, what they need to achieve this - to make the community trust them and look like angels, while making strategical moves.
Don't be fooled, Indeed!
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First i was like " "
Then i started reading ":/"
Finished reading ""
Dude did you think through what you just wrote? You have provided no proof on your theories. GOMtv doesn't show their viewership publicaly. How do you know it has decreased?
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I'm glad I read the comments before the OP. That saved me from taking this too seriously.
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I can understand if not everyone can understand this viewpoint. But for those of you who can, im sure its interesting enough to warrant a thread.
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I think you haven't been long enough on TL to make such accusations and be taken seriously.
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Why do people think their opinion is so fucking important that they have to create a new thread?
Your opinion is ridiculous, baseless assumptions everywhere.
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You really opened my eyes here, thank you!
Finally the proof that this topic is more than dead, please stop making posts like this.
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Moar Naniwa threads please!
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Russian Federation676 Posts
we should not let GOM do whatever they want, open your eyes people!!
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Everyone, GOM is just using an huge SC2 tourney to further their business career punching kittens! True fact!
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On December 16 2011 22:08 Probe1 wrote:
I'm glad I read the comments before the OP. That saved me from taking this too seriously.
same, i always read comment first to see if it's worth reading
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NO NO YOURE ALL MISSING THE REAL STORY HERE
Naniwa was trying to tell us something:
On December 15 2011 06:04 QuanticGaming wrote:
I had something very special prepared just for him, and I’m sure he had something just as special planned himself.
Nestea obviously has some diabolical plan going on. but what could it be?!
THE ANSWER:
State of the Game 2 nights ago had more viewers than any MLG or GSL did.
WHY?
1) State of the Game had a former PORNSTAR
Therefore:
Naniwa knows that GOMTV was planning on forcing Nestea to go into porn in order to get more viewers!
I'm disappointed in you GOM. I expected BETTER FROM YOU. Do not discriminate against foreigners. We want HUK to be in porn, not Nestea.
P.S. + Show Spoiler +Dear Mods, please dont ban me for my poor attempt at satire.
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wow, please don't put quotation mark when it isn't a quote
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just a wall of text displaying pure hatred toward GOM. This hater needs to be ip-banned
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EPT
