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While I understand that there's a need to discuss this matter, this thread has way too many trash posts in it. Please think carefully about what you want to say. Ad hominem attacks on Swedish people in general, calling you fellow Starcraft fans idiots etc etc will be dealt with with harsher punishment from here on out. Keep it civil people.
Page 230: Here's some more stuff that'll get you banned!
- Conspiracy theory mongering about MLG and GOM
- Comparing people to Hitler
- Posting useless one liners of arguments that have already been repeated ad nauseum. |
On December 15 2011 00:55 Odal wrote:
Well. I am never buying another GSL ticket ever again, and neither should you guys. He didn't break ANY rules. By this logic, 6 pooling in important games should get someone banned.
6 pooling while the player doesn't actually have his hands on the mouse and keyboard and doing something to win should get you banned as well.
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On December 15 2011 00:58 BLinD-RawR wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 00:53 sib-pelle wrote:
Naniwa is the new Firebathero and he was freaking baller! GOD NO! FBH shows the utmost professionalism during games,ceremonies are to spice things up AFTER THE GAMES. I can't believe that people are comparing the two.
Yeh, comparing this to FBH is just... wrong. =/
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On December 15 2011 00:42 VoirDire wrote:
"During a match, a player shall not offend the opponent or audience with abusive behaviors"
The problem is that what's offensive is completely arbitrary. Offense is not something "given", it's "taken". A person can choose to be offended by anything if he wants to, but you cant forcibly offend a person that does not choose not to take offense.
Quoting that one last time it's the most logical post in the thread. NaNiwa punishment was too harsh; he should have got a warning its late. Sleep time.
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GOM have really gone down in my estimation with this move, essentially removing a player for not showing enough effort in a meaningless match. I would not be happy if I were Nani, it is a bullshit call.
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im glad to see this happening. gl to sen!
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why cant just gsl apologize and be the bigger man here and admit their faults for even having the game played rather than punishing naniwa to play a game that didnt matter
if a game doesnt matter, ask the players if they want or dont want to play the game, if not, then give w.o
its retarded and naniwa is the one taking the blow here for something that wasnt his fault
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On December 15 2011 00:55 Almtom wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 00:51 JinDesu wrote:On December 15 2011 00:46 gruff wrote:On December 15 2011 00:44 baoluvboa wrote:On December 15 2011 00:43 Boundz(DarKo) wrote:On December 15 2011 00:39 iglocska wrote:On December 15 2011 00:36 Boundz(DarKo) wrote:On December 15 2011 00:36 azka wrote:On December 15 2011 00:33 dude_2 wrote:
i didn't read the whole thread. so sorry if someone has already written the same. but i am really wondering from the pages i have read, how people can argue there exists no throwing away of games in "real" sports. for example, it's pretty common in champions league (football) that already qualified teams send their b-team which is also a huge distortion of competition all the while other teams still playing for a spot.
anyone who has ever competed in sports knows that you don't play to your potential in a meaningless match and often don't make a real effort.
naniwa made it pretty obvious given that, but i as the audience can't blame him for that. Send your B team its one thing, but you will never see that B team do goals against their own team, which was what Naniwa did. Um... what? A lot of people here were arguing that a football team sending their B team to a match that has no value is the same as naniwa a-moving his probes into his opponents base. The reality is that doing a standard all-in like a 4gate / well known 2 base timing would be equal to sending the B-team and the probe a-move is the same as the players being fielded just standing still for the duration of the match. The problem here is that there are no rules that say "using only probes to attack" is not a valid starcraft strategy. This is what makes me the most upset. It's like GOM is trying to control how a starcraft game has to play out, something they will have to take up with Blizzard. I know the rule about not making fun of your opponent or whatever, that rule is waaaay too vague. And considering Naniwa is not from Korea, doesn't know their cultural traditions and preferences, I don't see how they could punish him at all. 6 Probes rush is really not a valid strategy. This point shouldn't really be argued. But people are arguing it when they say it's not a valid strategy. That suggest there are some arbitrary line where you go from valid strategy to unvalid. How do you judge this? People bring up his micro but micro is not strategy. What is a valid strategy? A 6 probe rush cannot win against another zerg of equal caliber unless he went 6 pool, and EVEN THEN if he wasn't very good at defending against a probe rush. Probes lose to drones 1 on 1, and if he went 6 pool he would be able to get out 8 to 9 drones to defend (cancel the pool). So here are the two scenarios: 1) Naniwa is throwing the game because he doesn't care. Evidence? He didn't micro, he didn't have his hand on the keyboard, people in the audience could see him playing one-handed. In this scenario, there is no strategy. It's a "I give up immediately" sign. 2) Naniwa massively disrespects Nestea, using a build that can only beat someone of a lower caliber. In this case, probe rush is a strategy. However he doesn't even bother to micro so... Which one do you want to pick? If Naniwa was already in Code S and the revoke his Code S and banned him from competing at all, I would say that's far too harsh and GOM is completely in the wrong. His current punishment still feels too strong to me (as Naniwa will more than likely tilt from this and Quantic is going to be very unhappy), but it's not the end of the world. You are missing the point. The rules clearly stated that the top placing individual regardless of country of origin at MLG providence received a Code S spot. That is as clear cut as it can get. Mr Chae slandering a player on air calling him a greedy money hunter that is unforgivable, then lying about the fact that Naniwa had a code S spot, so bad mannered.
Naniwa didn't win Code S seed from Providence.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES51701 Posts
On December 15 2011 00:59 Holgerius wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 00:58 BLinD-RawR wrote:On December 15 2011 00:53 sib-pelle wrote:
Naniwa is the new Firebathero and he was freaking baller! GOD NO! FBH shows the utmost professionalism during games,ceremonies are to spice things up AFTER THE GAMES. I can't believe that people are comparing the two. Yeh, comparing this to FBH is just... wrong. =/
yeah and soon people will call to ban ceremonies in SC2.
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On December 15 2011 00:59 Derez wrote:
Can the thread title be renamed?
Seeing how Slasher (MLG representative and all) has stated that Nani wasn't actually awarded a code S slot for his providence performance, a more accurate title would be 'GomTV decides not to invite Naniwa to Code S January'.
Isn't it kinda weird, that he waited all this time to tell us?
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On December 15 2011 00:55 iky43210 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 00:53 eteran wrote:
If Naniwa was Zerg and would have been 7 Pooling a Terran, would he have lost his Code S spot? because this matters why? its quite obvious that he wasn't trying, his hand wasn't even on his keyboard the entire game beside the first 1-a move
It matters because it has the same chance of winning and is a strategy that decides the game quickly.
Yes, taking his hands off was over the top, agreed. But Naniwa was not raised in a culture where you're not supposed to show any emotions. He was very disappointed about losing the first three games so close - and they all all-inned him - what led to him showing emotions.
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On December 15 2011 00:58 BLinD-RawR wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 00:53 sib-pelle wrote:
Naniwa is the new Firebathero and he was freaking baller! GOD NO! FBH shows the utmost professionalism during games,ceremonies are to spice things up AFTER THE GAMES. I can't believe that people are comparing the two.
Totally agree. I can't believe how people can even compare Naniwa to broodwar progamer (FBH in this case)
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I think GSL made an example out of him, I really think they should have gave him an warning, since it was kind of a letdown, even tho the game didn't matter in the tournament a "Naniwa vs NesTea" is (for me at least) very interesting.. anyway, I think they where too harsh and my reason to buy a ticket went out the window faster than Naniwa pulls his probes 
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Never paying for another GSL.
Complete joke of a tournament.
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On December 15 2011 00:56 Almtom wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 00:55 Jurassic wrote:On December 15 2011 00:51 Pholon wrote:On December 15 2011 00:38 NHY wrote:On December 15 2011 00:29 Pholon wrote:On December 15 2011 00:25 Echo_ wrote:
This wouldn't have happened if he did what 99.9% of people would have done in his situation, which is to 4gate. People need to stop saying this. Requiring a certain strategy of a player is the complete opposite of what SC is all about..  It requires a strategy. he made units and attacked his opponent. that's sc in a nutshell as far as I know. But it also involves a will to win. Shouldnt BitByBit prime have been banned then for sending his workers to attack every game?
And did he wanted to win with it? Yes.
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Glad to see GOMTv showing a backbone. My worse fear would be them being more complacent.
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I dont understand this. So he threw away an unimportant match, some people took out their pitchfork. And now he is banned? For what? Bad behaviour? That is just ridiculous. Everyone knows this was for insults etc. now it has to be interpreted as this "not taking the fans serious"... What fans, the pitchfork guys? gom.tv man....
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On December 15 2011 00:57 smf wrote:
The thing that bothers me the most about this is not the revoke itself, but the insults along with it; both from GOM and the Korean twitter army of players and managers. In my opinion, these comments have been far more unprofessional than probe rushing in a meaningless game.
I don't think that players should be required to play half-assed matches just for our "entertainment". In my opinion, the entertainment in following players like Naniwa is their extreme focus and dedication towards one goal; tournament victories.
I totally agree with you here. I understand that what Naniwa did looks really unprofessional and that Gom felt it deserved some type of punishment; but for the most important tournament in SC2 to call someone an amateur prize-money hunter, especially someone like Nani that's so driven to win and to be the best? That's just uncalled for. A professional statement explaining that although the match didn't matter they still expect a certain level of effort from participants and therefore have decided to revoke his Code S seed while not banning him from competing would have been much better. Instead we get stuff from twitter and the Korean stream with a bunch of insults mixed in.
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No offense, but Naniwa needs to do some growing up. If Idra can do it, so can Naniwa. SC2 is meant to be enjoyed and loved by those who play it. It should not be a money grabber and a way to gain fame. I believe Nani needs to rethink if he truly wants to be involved in this community or move on. We do not need immature players like him.
Advise to Naniwa. Take an Idra break, man. Come back when you are ready and not before then. You are one of the best Protoss in the world, but you are also one of the worst sports. This expulsion from Code S may be your blessing in disguise. Take time for yourself and really evaluate if you want to be in this scene or not. You are pushing your fans away by acting so immature. Yes there was no difference in the game but showing effort and giving entertainment are vital parts to being a great SC2 pro.
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I just realized that this case will enforce kespa/gomtv to set up rules even harsher than the ones for broodwar.
fuck
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On December 15 2011 00:51 Naeroon wrote:Can somebody answer a quick Q I got about this situation? I know it says that NaNiWa is only kicked out of a single season. But it also says his Code S seed is revoked - does this mean that his Code S seed is revoked only for a single season, or is it COMPLETELY revoked and he has to completely earn it back? Thanks in advance
He is no longer Code S, period.
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EPT
