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Yaki
Profile Joined April 2011
France4234 Posts
December 14 2011 12:36 GMT
#721
At least he won't ever do something stupid like that again.
MC ■ MarineKing ■ LosirA ■ To someone who has lost after trying his best, no words from the winner can console him.
DeadBull
Profile Joined August 2011
421 Posts
December 14 2011 12:37 GMT
#722
im not gonna watch blizzard cup,
because of the fucking terrible format and this nani thing
Sneakyz
Profile Joined October 2010
Sweden2361 Posts
December 14 2011 12:38 GMT
#723
On December 14 2011 21:32 thOr6136 wrote:
quote form another thread

Show nested quote +
On December 14 2011 21:29 jyisvip wrote:
Wait a minute... I just found this on twitter from Ethan_Ahn

NaNiwa는 애초에 코드S 시드가 아니었습니다. '만약 어제 그런 행동이 없었다면 시드를 줄 수 있었을지도 모른다'가 맞습니다. 많은 분들이 MLG프로비던스에서 코드S 시드가 나온 것으로 알고 계시지만 없었습니다. #GSL #SC2
54 minutes ago

Basically saying:
Naniwa wasn't seeded to Code S to begin with; people think he got the seed from MLG Providence but that is not the case. It was more like if he hadn't done what he did, it was likely that he could of received the Code S seed. All they have done is restricting naniwa from receiving the Code S seed (not revoking the code s seed)

What difference does that make? It's like they're saying he would get the code S seed but he hadn't gotten it yet so technically they didn't revoke it. wtf
I have found the Iron to be my greatest friend. It never freaks out on me, never runs. Friends may come and go. But two hundred pounds is always two hundred pounds.
DrMosh
Profile Joined May 2010
United Kingdom26 Posts
December 14 2011 12:39 GMT
#724
On December 14 2011 21:35 LiquiidTAP wrote:
I LOVE how some people are saying "goodbye GSL" and "I will no longer watch GSL" because of what they did and said. I am a Australian-Korean and I know that Koreans take gaming very seriously. Naniwa is very unprofessional and has no integrity. Wouldn't everyone here be upset if it was for example a "SOCCER GAME" and losing side was down 0-5 goals and there was only 5 minutes left and they didn't think there was no use because they already lost and just stopped playing and walked off the field???? Or what if they started kicking own goals for the fun of it??


Again, this analogy is flawed since it is entirely common in soccer to not take important games seriously.
You're already 5-0 in your group, field the b-team since you're already through. Similarly, you're 0-5 in your group, field the b-team because it no longer matters.
The same even holds for matches as important as 3rd and 4th place in the world cup.

Think for a minute before saying dumb shit
HyperLethality
Profile Joined June 2011
United States14 Posts
December 14 2011 12:39 GMT
#725
On December 14 2011 21:26 thOr6136 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2011 21:24 HyperLethality wrote:
To all of the people who keep DEFENDING NANIWA BY CRYING, "OH HE TRIED SO HARD, HE'S DEDICATED, HE'S NOT ABOUT THE MONEY, HE'S PRACTICED HIS POOR HEART OUT FOR ALL THIS,", will you please REALIZE that IF he was more about the COMPETITION and the SPORT, and trying to the THE VERY BEST LIKE NO ONE EVER WAS, that he WOULD HAVE PLAYED NESTEA. I certainly KNOW that NaNiwa is big on practicing hard and being the best, and he's not about the money, so WHY does NOT advancing suddenly mean NOT PLAYING?

You're on the most prestigious stage of Starcraft II playing against arguably the best Zerg player in the world and trying to prove that your win against him on foreign soil wasn't a fluke, yet you don't want to play? "Oh that match didn't matter," oh really? Do your fans matter? Your pride? Going 1-3 is certainly better than 0-4 is it not? What on earth are you people thinking, trying to justify his actions? Really, people? I wish I could have a little more faith, truly. Stop making excuses for him, he obviously doesn't care about anything but himself. Let the poor guy rest, yeah? He needs it so badly apparently.


And revoking his code S seed is a way to go?


Personally, I think it's a bit severe. But people have gotten worse. If he were Korean, he would've been suspended for months and kicked from his team. Say he keeps his Code S spot, and is put in a similar scenario again, playing a match that "doesn't matter". Is he going to behave this way again? NaNiwa has shown time and time again, he doesn't have respect for anyone (MLG, TSL, etc.), and the GSL is not taking that bullshit. He needs to learn, one way or another. If this punishment makes him never want to return to GSL, then that's his decision. Like I said, personally, this is a bit severe, but who's to say how serious this is by Korean standards?
"Keep it clean."
kcbgoku
Profile Joined March 2011
Poland156 Posts
December 14 2011 12:40 GMT
#726
@Monsen

You can not compare this situation with a friendly sport event. Let's take a friendly football match. The REAL football, the one when you actually kick the ball with your foot all the time...
1. They always pick reserve players to play anyways.
2. The match is actually limited by time, so it would be stupid to sit on grass for 90 minutes.
3. Players have a lot of time between matches, they don't play one after one in one day.

What I'm saying here is - they are not exhausted, they have a proper mindset and reserve players probably want to show their best.
Zerksys
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States569 Posts
December 14 2011 12:42 GMT
#727
On December 14 2011 21:33 Puosu wrote:
kespa? is that you?


WIN

Anyways IMO Naniwa should get a talking to, but I don't feel that this was 100 percent his fault. The stupid format mandating two players to play each other who have no opportunity to advance caused this. Also the rule about being abusive and disrespectful in the history of starcraft progamming.

Boxer vs. Yellow - Nukes everywhere (this one is debatable)
FBH dancing ceremonies
Pylon hearts anyone?

More recently in sc2
- banter
- dropping mules at the end of a long tvx game
- dancing your units.

Anyways naniwa needed to be punished but this was not the way to do it.
What's that probe doing there? It's a scout. You mean one of those flying planes? No....
LiquiidTAP
Profile Joined May 2011
Australia12 Posts
December 14 2011 12:46 GMT
#728
On December 14 2011 18:44 ChuCky.Ca wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2011 18:42 Jiddra wrote:
Fuckin idiots, bye bye GSL.

cya dont let the door hit u on the way out


Exactly, all these people crying about what GOMTV did and threatening to stop watching. LOL Don't kid yourself. Where else are you going to go to watch the highest level of Starcraft 2?? Nowhere!!

And also let me point out that Foreign tournaments wasn't as appealing as the GSL until the Koreans started to go to foreign events and started winning everything. (well mostly)
Drone: When I grow up, I want to be a spawning pool!!!
Zalitara
Profile Joined July 2011
Norway361 Posts
December 14 2011 12:46 GMT
#729
On December 14 2011 21:23 ilimor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2011 21:18 Monsen wrote:
I don't get it- some of you really seem to think that a game only should be played "if it mattered".

Take football for example: GASP there are plenty of "friendly" matches between the national teams, that still get televised and pull plenty of viewers. The latest friendly between the Netherlands and Germany was all over the news, "OMFG" I hear you say, "THE GAME DOESN'T MEAN ANYTHING, THEY SHOULD JUST THROW THAT BALL OVER THE FENCE AND LEAVE".
Which is exactly what Naniwa did.

The severity of the punishment can be argued, but the need for one can not.
Personally I just think Naniwa is literally incapable of understanding these matters. Maybe some mild asbergers or something- you'd think he'd have gotten the message by now.


Oh you mean like when Dinamo Zagreb loses a game with 1-7 in champions league? wich was perfectly okay and that match meant alot for other teams that lost/gained lots of millions cause of that result
Which is being investegated... If it can be proven that foul play was involved there will be severe consequenses. No one thinks Dinamo Zagreb losing on purpose is okay, so please stop making things up.
Live to win
Sleed
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada181 Posts
December 14 2011 12:48 GMT
#730
This is completely justified. People need to star understanding culture & context. What you can do in the West or in your home country may not be acceptable elsewhere.

Gom acted based on their context/culture, Korean were shocked, the punishment is fair, and Gom had no choice but to take actions.

KiNGxXx
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
7928 Posts
December 14 2011 12:48 GMT
#731
On December 14 2011 21:36 Yaki wrote:
At least he won't ever do something stupid like that again.

I wouldn't bet money on it tbh.
MKP|Maru|TaeJa|Mvp|Polt|INnoVation|GuMiho|Bomber|GoOdy|TeamTerran
Zechs
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United Kingdom321 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-14 12:52:00
December 14 2011 12:50 GMT
#732
On December 14 2011 21:42 Zerksys wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2011 21:33 Puosu wrote:
kespa? is that you?


WIN

Anyways IMO Naniwa should get a talking to, but I don't feel that this was 100 percent his fault. The stupid format mandating two players to play each other who have no opportunity to advance caused this. Also the rule about being abusive and disrespectful in the history of starcraft progamming.

Boxer vs. Yellow - Nukes everywhere (this one is debatable)
FBH dancing ceremonies
Pylon hearts anyone?

More recently in sc2
- banter
- dropping mules at the end of a long tvx game
- dancing your units.

Anyways naniwa needed to be punished but this was not the way to do it.


Right, this is completely arbirtrary from GOM. How is dropping MULEs - gloating - more respectful giving your opponent a free win in a meaningless game? I would argue that mule dropping is in fact far more disrespectful but it's accepted as commonplace. The problem GOM now has is where do you draw the line between not trying your hardest and giving up entirely? If you think every players tries 100% in every game you're sorely mistaken. I'm far from a Naniwa fanboy, but this is very poor form shown by GOM.

And if you're arrogant enough to think that he should be there to entertain you, well look around at the pages and pages of drama. You could argue that he's been more entertaining than any SC2 player thus far.
Esports and stuff: zechleton.tumblr.com
Cep
Profile Joined November 2010
Germany41 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-14 12:52:26
December 14 2011 12:51 GMT
#733
On December 14 2011 21:33 Puosu wrote:
kespa? is that you?


if kespa ran the gsl, naniwa would've been thrown out right away.

you guys should stop bitchn GomTV. they've done a ton of things for foreign players. you should start looking at the greater picture of naniwas actions and what it caused.
duracell
Profile Joined April 2011
53 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-14 12:54:30
December 14 2011 12:53 GMT
#734
For everyone saying he had to rest, executing a 4 gate takes a couple minutes and almost no effort at all from someone who knows it in and out.

He didn't think through his actions, and should be punished for it. This can easily lead to negative exposure to sponsors, which greatly affect such a young esport. Whether he meant to or not, he is potentially causing monetary damage to GOM and they have every right to reprimand him in a way they see fit.

If he did the clearly appropriate thing, which was to play the game, he would not be punished whatsoever. Since he chose to make a murky action for whatever reason (lazy, emotional, trying to look cool, etc) he has to be prepared that there is a chance something can happen to him.
DrMosh
Profile Joined May 2010
United Kingdom26 Posts
December 14 2011 12:54 GMT
#735
On December 14 2011 21:51 Cep wrote:

if kespa ran the gsl, naniwa would've been thrown out right away.

you guys should stop bitchn GomTV. they've done a ton of things for foreign players. you should start looking at the greater picture of naniwas actions and what it caused.


What did his actions cause that is so terrible, or worse than what gom has done in lots of people's opinion
LiquiidTAP
Profile Joined May 2011
Australia12 Posts
December 14 2011 12:54 GMT
#736
On December 14 2011 21:39 DrMosh wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2011 21:35 LiquiidTAP wrote:
I LOVE how some people are saying "goodbye GSL" and "I will no longer watch GSL" because of what they did and said. I am a Australian-Korean and I know that Koreans take gaming very seriously. Naniwa is very unprofessional and has no integrity. Wouldn't everyone here be upset if it was for example a "SOCCER GAME" and losing side was down 0-5 goals and there was only 5 minutes left and they didn't think there was no use because they already lost and just stopped playing and walked off the field???? Or what if they started kicking own goals for the fun of it??


Again, this analogy is flawed since it is entirely common in soccer to not take important games seriously.
You're already 5-0 in your group, field the b-team since you're already through. Similarly, you're 0-5 in your group, field the b-team because it no longer matters.
The same even holds for matches as important as 3rd and 4th place in the world cup.

Think for a minute before saying dumb shit


Yes this may be true, but they still play the game as usually. In Naniwa's incident, he a-moved his probes to Nestea's base and sat in his chair with folded arms. In no way is that professional, and is bad sportsmanship, especially in Korean where they take gaming very seriously.

I totally understand your statement claiming soccer fielding their b-team. But never does the b-team walk onto the field and sat on the ground for the duration of the match. They will play the game out as normal.

Now Naniwa did not just there but he might as well have.

Drone: When I grow up, I want to be a spawning pool!!!
-Dustin-
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States718 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-14 13:13:17
December 14 2011 12:55 GMT
#737
Why are some of you saying this is disrespectable to the foreign community? I don't see how, If this was a Korean that did it same punishiment would most likely be enforced. Sure the game meant nothing but it still was a game. A game I'm sure many people were excited to see, I personally didn't get to watch it live, But I would've loved to see a Nani VS NesTea rematch because of what he did at MLG.

I mean he disrespects MLG, Someone said KSL I don't know myself though and now GSL. Hes far from professional, if he would mature a little bit I don't see any reason not to give his code S back, but currently he doesn't deserve it. If hes going to throw games or insult the tournaments on a whim just because he didn't want to play the game, or they accidentally loaded the wrong map.

I'm glad he got punished I wanted him to be punished at MLG.
Xalorian
Profile Joined September 2011
Canada433 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-14 12:56:14
December 14 2011 12:55 GMT
#738
On December 14 2011 21:46 LiquiidTAP wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2011 18:44 ChuCky.Ca wrote:
On December 14 2011 18:42 Jiddra wrote:
Fuckin idiots, bye bye GSL.

cya dont let the door hit u on the way out


Exactly, all these people crying about what GOMTV did and threatening to stop watching. LOL Don't kid yourself. Where else are you going to go to watch the highest level of Starcraft 2?? Nowhere!!

And also let me point out that Foreign tournaments wasn't as appealing as the GSL until the Koreans started to go to foreign events and started winning everything. (well mostly)


That's exactly the point.

Now, we can watch korean players at every tournamenets. It's not just GSL any more.

Boycotting it was not possible... it is, now.

Zechs
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United Kingdom321 Posts
December 14 2011 12:56 GMT
#739
On December 14 2011 21:53 duracell wrote:
For everyone saying he had to rest, executing a 4 gate takes a couple minutes and almost no effort at all from someone who knows it in and out.

He didn't think through his actions, and should be punished for it. This can easily lead to negative exposure to sponsors, which greatly affect such a young esport. Whether he meant to or not, he is potentially causing monetary damage to GOM and they have every right to reprimand him in a way they see fit.

If he did the clearly appropriate thing, which was to play the game, he would not be punished whatsoever. Since he chose to make a murky action for whatever reason (lazy, emotional, trying to look cool, etc) he has to be prepared that there is a chance something can happen to him.


What's the difference between a poorly executed 4gate to end the game asap and what he did? Essentially, there is no difference. The game was 100% meaningless and he was obvoiusly in a bad frame of mind from going out of the tournament. Hell, in previous iterations of GSL that match wouldn't have even been played.
Esports and stuff: zechleton.tumblr.com
TATTOO
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada33 Posts
December 14 2011 12:56 GMT
#740
so choya can fix ladder and coca/byun can fix code a seeding without punishment from GOM (the choya issue i can understand why not, but at the point ESV was essentially an extension of code A). Yet when naniwa purposely looses a meaningless game (a situation he should have never been in) and actually gets dealt a rather severe punishment? Mr. Chae calling him a amateur prize hunter is nothing more than unprofessional libel. GOM should take a degree of responisblity in the matter for ruining a match that would have been amazing (fucking nestea and naniwa). Rather they choose to punish Naniwa rather severely based on their cultural preceptions.

I wouldnt be so bothered by the situation if GOM stayed professional when punishing some1 for not being professional. Nani's decision was inappropriate but guess what no1 gave a shit about that game at that point. there is alot more to be judged by either parties actions afterwards but all in all i just cant understand GOMs reasoning on letting its employs slander some1 for acting unprofessional. both GOM and nani seem to be experiencing massive lapses in judgment.
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