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On December 14 2011 20:48 Clearout wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 20:31 Zalithian wrote:On December 14 2011 20:28 Clearout wrote:On December 14 2011 20:24 Zalithian wrote:
I swear to fucking god Team Liquid has been taken over by 16 year old girls. Since when did being a completely selfish and disrespectful become the cool trend on here? Since when did (IMO) giving out excessively harsh punishments, ruining months of work and dedication for a player, on the grounds of he not properly entertaining them in their pointless match become ok? Especially considering he is not an entertainer and they are not paying him to be one, he is a competitor, providing entertainment by proxy of competing. Excessively harsh? He got his seed taken away that he didn't even earn through the traditional route. He disrespected the organizers of GOM. GOM runs GSL. Shocking they wouldn't want him in their tournament next season. Guy gets paid to play Starcraft and he won't even play a televised game vs Nestea in a tournament he agreed to (including prize money?) So much white knighting on here. He didn't earn his place properly? So anyone getting their seed from MLG doesn't earn it then compared to the ones going through code A? Way to undermine other player's accomplishments as well then. He doesn't get paid to play, he get's paid by winning. He did a terrible strat throwing the game away, but he's a competitor not an entertainer, so they should not throw an excessively harsh punishment based on whether he entertained or not. Especially since it was their format who put him in that position in the first place. If there was a player who did only allins he should be warned for his behaviour by that logic then. Lets take a look at the reasons we are judging him by. Are we judging him based on the chance of winning with the strat? If that's the case there should be a rule about this, which there is not. Many allin's or funny strategies should be grounds for warning then. Would mothership rush be reason for a ban? Viability of a player's chosen "strategy" should not be grounds for consequence. Are we judging him by his intent then (to lose)? Then the strategy used has no bearing, and they should have a rule regarding that (they don't). Sure rules against match fixing, but this can hardly by twisted into that. Then we are down to judging him for "disrespecting the tournament and audience" by not entertaining. As I believe I pointed out many times, he is not an entertainer, they do not pay him to entertain, therefore they should have no reason to react when he does not entertain. The entertainment comes by proxy from competing to win, logic should then declare when there is nothing to win, entertainment should not be expected and therefore lack of it should not be punishable. Are there any other reasons for this punishment? Can't think of others myself.
Never played a game or sport that had something a rule involving "going against the spirit or the game?" Pretty vague, but I think this is even something Blizzard has. Too lazy to check.
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How the hell that can invite idra and ban naniwa when Idra is so much more BM in game?
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I understand why people are upset about naniwas behavior. I understand GOMs decision even though I do disagree and think the punishment is too harsh. I really dislike the fact that gom goes out of their way to make Naniwa look bad.
I fucking love naniwa for being one of the few persons in sports who does not compromise with his will to win. Naniwa is playing to win and if there is nothing to win he does not play. I, personally, would rather watch a couple of 5-year olds duke it out on the soccer field, playing their hearts out, than barcelona's last group match in Championsleague, which meant literally nothing to them. To me, the spirit of the competition has nothing to do with some lofty ethical rules which noone states clearly but everyone should follow, or be considered outcasts. To me, the spirit of competition is the drive to win. To see the lengths, within the rules of the game, that humans can push themselves to prove themselves the best. If I have doubts about the incitaments for either party to try their hardest, I could not care less about the competition. To me it is a useless show, like a terribly scripted movie with awful actors and a dishonest crowd who cheers for nothing.
Nani, you have made a fan. Do not ever compromise.
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On December 14 2011 20:45 disciple wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 20:42 D_K_night wrote:
Overeaction.
By the Naniwa fans. Why? Because it's only one tournament. It will not affect Naniwa's ability to play on GSTL and subsequent GSL seasons.
In other news a player world wide known for his disrespectful ingame attitude and bad manners gets invited in Code S directly
I thought you were talking about Sen at first! Hah..
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On December 14 2011 20:50 Benjef wrote:
How the hell that can invite idra and ban naniwa when Idra is so much more BM in game?
Because the decision was about appeasing rabbid fans, and Idra has lots of them.
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On December 14 2011 20:50 Benjef wrote:
How the hell that can invite idra and ban naniwa when Idra is so much more BM in game?
Idra doesn't call the tournament hosts a joke in public, just the people he's playing against.
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You can't arbitrarily make rules up to punish people you have a bias against GOM.
If Naniwa is punished, I want a refund for my yearly premium 2012...
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On December 14 2011 20:50 Zalithian wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 20:48 Clearout wrote:On December 14 2011 20:31 Zalithian wrote:On December 14 2011 20:28 Clearout wrote:On December 14 2011 20:24 Zalithian wrote:
I swear to fucking god Team Liquid has been taken over by 16 year old girls. Since when did being a completely selfish and disrespectful become the cool trend on here? Since when did (IMO) giving out excessively harsh punishments, ruining months of work and dedication for a player, on the grounds of he not properly entertaining them in their pointless match become ok? Especially considering he is not an entertainer and they are not paying him to be one, he is a competitor, providing entertainment by proxy of competing. Excessively harsh? He got his seed taken away that he didn't even earn through the traditional route. He disrespected the organizers of GOM. GOM runs GSL. Shocking they wouldn't want him in their tournament next season. Guy gets paid to play Starcraft and he won't even play a televised game vs Nestea in a tournament he agreed to (including prize money?) So much white knighting on here. He didn't earn his place properly? So anyone getting their seed from MLG doesn't earn it then compared to the ones going through code A? Way to undermine other player's accomplishments as well then. He doesn't get paid to play, he get's paid by winning. He did a terrible strat throwing the game away, but he's a competitor not an entertainer, so they should not throw an excessively harsh punishment based on whether he entertained or not. Especially since it was their format who put him in that position in the first place. If there was a player who did only allins he should be warned for his behaviour by that logic then. Lets take a look at the reasons we are judging him by. Are we judging him based on the chance of winning with the strat? If that's the case there should be a rule about this, which there is not. Many allin's or funny strategies should be grounds for warning then. Would mothership rush be reason for a ban? Viability of a player's chosen "strategy" should not be grounds for consequence. Are we judging him by his intent then (to lose)? Then the strategy used has no bearing, and they should have a rule regarding that (they don't). Sure rules against match fixing, but this can hardly by twisted into that. Then we are down to judging him for "disrespecting the tournament and audience" by not entertaining. As I believe I pointed out many times, he is not an entertainer, they do not pay him to entertain, therefore they should have no reason to react when he does not entertain. The entertainment comes by proxy from competing to win, logic should then declare when there is nothing to win, entertainment should not be expected and therefore lack of it should not be punishable. Are there any other reasons for this punishment? Can't think of others myself. Never played a game or sport that had something a rule involving "going against the spirit or the game?" Pretty vague, but I think this is even something Blizzard has. Too lazy to check. To vague to define properly, therefore I still think it is a way too harsh punishment. Going against something really vague should not be grounds to effectively trample a players dedication and work for months IMO.
Edit: Seems a lot of people are dismissing the effect this will have, I mean he only moved to the other side of the world for this. Like Naniwa or not, noone deserves this. I do not agree with what he did, but I think this way out of grounds for something that is considering it all rather trivial. Seems petty, he offends us therefore we fuck him over.
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On December 14 2011 20:46 bella.test wrote:
As someone who doesn't even like Naniwa (don't know if I'd say I hate him, but I certainly don't like him), this is pretty fucking pathetic by GOM. Everyone talks about how Naniwa is an egotistical piece of crap, but this is a 100% ego move by GOMTV, and I will no longer buy any of their products, I also plan to watch a whole lot less of GSL next year.
To this guys and all the others saying the same crap. It's your loss, GOMTV won't really care if you watch or not. But you'll come back to it, it's a sure thing. No tournament (even MLG who clearly rocks) is showing the same level of play. If you want to see the best games (and this one was NOT a good game), then you'll come back to the GSL.
I totally agree with Gom. Maybe the punishment is too overboard, but they had to take action. I didn't pay to watch a 7 probes rush. He didn't event microed them, it was a clear "Yeah i don't care about viewers, the tournament i'm in and my oponnent, i'll just throw that out since I can't continue". What about pride to win against NesTea one more time ?
I hate BM players, they're hurting esports image. And remember this was broadcasted on TV in Korea...
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On December 14 2011 20:55 Growiel wrote:
I hate BM players, they're hurting esports image. And remember this was broadcasted on TV in Korea...
Idra is hurting esports???
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Sponsor code S seed haha. Beauty contest code S seed soon?
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Thank godness for Mr. Chae keeping the GSL professional.
I think the reaction of Gom fits the incident. It's neither too soft, nor too hard.
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On December 14 2011 20:51 Starcraftmazter wrote:
You can't arbitrarily make rules up to punish people you have a bias against GOM.
If Naniwa is punished, I want a refund for my yearly premium 2012...
They don't have to arbitrarily make up rules, its their tournament. It doesn't belong to you, or the players, it belongs to GOM, and if GOM decide they think Naniwa is not the kind of player they want in their tournament, they're going to do whatever they like about it, and they don't need to make up rules to do it.
You are thinking in the mindset of "if I don't break any rules, they can't punish me" like how we all think when we're kids trying to be smartasses to parents/teachers. That isn't how everything works, and thats not how its working here, as is clearly proven by him being banned for what he did.
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On December 14 2011 20:58 BlazingGlory wrote:
Sponsor code S seed haha. Beauty contest code S seed soon?
Huh?
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GOM TV just lost another supporter.
Thats it. I will not stand by foolish decision based on reaction of crowd and twitter posts from ppl like Choya.
Losing in a game apparently it is bad mannered - then whole Code S is just a sham not a professional tourney.
From now on im gonna stick to watching MLG IPL or NASL since they are all more normal than strange Korean interpretations of rules.
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[QUOTE]On December 14 2011 20:57 msl wrote:
[QUOTE]On December 14 2011 20:55 Growiel wrote:
[QUOTE]On December 14 2011 20:46 bella.test wrote:
I hate BM players, they're hurting esports image. And remember this was broadcasted on TV in Korea...[/QUOTE]
Idra is hurting esports???
[/QUOTE]
I don't like Idra either, for what it's worth.
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Sorry but GOMTV fails hard on this one.
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On December 14 2011 20:48 nugget-92 wrote:
Naniwa should continue to participate in the GSL and make the finals...
...Then proceed to probe rush 4 times in a row on GSL's largest stage.
Because he's done so well in GSL in the past?
Good to have people in Code S who can actually move past the first round.
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I dont even know if this has been mentioned, but SC2 is obviously trying to make it big in Korea. How are you supposed to make it big if the viewers have to watch a game like that. If GOM didnt puunish Naniwa, what sort of integrity are they supposed to have? How are they supposed to be taken seriously? Naniwa fully spit on the sport, the tournament, his opponent (dont forget he denied Nestea the ability to show his fans a game), and all his fans. There is nothing justifiable in his actions.
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On December 14 2011 18:38 CryingPoo wrote:
On Korean stream of GSL right now, Mr.Chae has announced that they made Code S seeds for a professional minded pro-gamer not for an amateur prize money hunter. It is official that Naniwa is given a punishment.
Also Mr.Chae mentioned that David Kim will come to the finals of Blizzcup.
T/N : When GOM announced the new format of GSL tour 2012. They planned out total 2 seeds to Code S and 2 seeds to Code A. Two seeds are sponsor seeds which are given to Idra and Sen. Two seeds are up/down seeds that will be given out to top performing non-Korea players. Therefore Idra and Sen did not suddenly get in that Naniwa's punishment is a separate issue.
T/N 2 : There is a rule about players' behaviours, whether Naniwa broke it or not is up to your discussion
Warning or disqualification
- 경기중에 과격한 행동으로 상대 게이머나 관중들에게 위협을 가할 때
- During a match, a player shall not offend the opponent or audience with abusive behaviours
perhaps "abusive behaviours" is up for comment.... I understand your opinion that it is not, but its rather arrogant.
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EPT
