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I play p, and i lose to zerg every freaking game.
I just don't understand, i go blink stalker and storm and yet i just OWNED BY 20+ MUTAS.
even if i do happen to hold off his mutas when im on three bases, he just mass expands. ITS IMPOSSIBLE TO HARRAS HIM BACK. he just sits at his base massing roaches so when i go to push with my zelot, blink stalk, archon/ht army i just get rofled by 50 roaches. EVEN IF MY UPGRADES ARE 3,2.0 TO HIS 2,1. Its just really getting to me i officaly cant win anymore, no matter what i do.
please just take a look at a few of these replays and help me out cause im about to quit playing starcraft and leave it for others to deal with this crap.
game 1:http://drop.sc/70428
game 2:http://drop.sc/70430
game 3:http://drop.sc/70431
game 4:http://drop.sc/70432
pretty much these games vary in what he does or what i do. but i think im 1 and 12 on my last pvz. and i'm simply dont know what the hell this matchup has become. when i watch streams games NEVER look like mine, all the zergs i play just all in me or just pressure the hell out of me.
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Yeah, it's a common mistake. Zerg goes muta, and you don't use the strongest counter: Phoenix. Get like 10 phoenix and any zerg who commits to muta has just lost against you.
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United States8476 Posts
Hey, here's a few tips that'll help your replays get analyzed.
First, calm down. You're more likely to get help if you don't look like you're just QQing about mutas.
Pick one representative replay and analyze it yourself. This accomplished a few things.
1. It's REQUIRED by forum guidelines and you thread could be closed because of this alone.
2. People are much more likely to watch one replay than four.
3. People are more likely to help you if they see you put effort into your OP.
3. You'll get better responses/analysis that are targeted for you and may clear up your misconceptions.
Also, I'm assuming you've read this:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=287788
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United States8476 Posts
On December 08 2011 21:56 Tobberoth wrote:
Yeah, it's a common mistake. Zerg goes muta, and you don't use the strongest counter: Phoenix. Get like 10 phoenix and any zerg who commits to muta has just lost against you.
No.
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"Yeah, it's a common mistake. Zerg goes muta, and you don't use the strongest counter: Phoenix. Get like 10 phoenix and any zerg who commits to muta has just lost against you."
Wrong, going phoenixes is the worst thing you can do, unless you have already a solid 4+ of them when spire finishes. I dont have time to watch the replays right now, but try pressuring zerg right before or right after he finishes the spire, in order to forse him to delay his mutas, giving you more time to set up cannons and a third. When you have storms, sentry, archons and lots of blink stalker push him and judge the game from them: if u can kill him, do so; if not, just starve him. Hopefully this helps :D
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On December 08 2011 22:02 SCHammer wrote:
"Yeah, it's a common mistake. Zerg goes muta, and you don't use the strongest counter: Phoenix. Get like 10 phoenix and any zerg who commits to muta has just lost against you."
Wrong, going phoenixes is the worst thing you can do, unless you have already a solid 4+ of them when spire finishes. I dont have time to watch the replays right now, but try pressuring zerg right before or right after he finishes the spire, in order to forse him to delay his mutas, giving you more time to set up cannons and a third. When you have storms, sentry, archons and lots of blink stalker push him and judge the game from them: if u can kill him, do so; if not, just starve him. Hopefully this helps :D
Can you give a reason for that? I assume you mean you need critical mass phoenix for them to be useful, but the point is that phoenix can kite mutas indefinitely. If the mutas try to engage your phoenix before you have enough, just run away, place them over a base with cannons. When you have a solid number, if the zerg player hasn't given up on mutas already, you can start to cut his muta count.
I mean sure, the zerg can adapt and start using corrupters, but that's kind of nice since your blink stalker will own his air even better then.
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its just really hard to pressure the zerg when he has 30-50 lings and spines to back it up  plus half the time when i do push, i find my self staring at 15-20 roaches and my push gets wrecked to the point where i insta lose or have to turtle on two base for the rest of the game (you know how that goes)
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Can you give a reason for that? I assume you mean you need critical mass phoenix for them to be useful, but the point is that phoenix can kite mutas indefinitely. If the mutas try to engage your phoenix before you have enough, just run away, place them over a base with cannons. When you have a solid number, if the zerg player hasn't given up on mutas already, you can start to cut his muta count.
I mean sure, the zerg can adapt and start using corrupters, but that's kind of nice since your blink stalker will own his air even better then.
all this talk about phoenix doesnt really help my situation.... it costs so much gas to get blink and stalkers just in its self, on 4 gas your not gonna be able to mass produce phoenix without delaying blink or making your ground army 75% zelots. plus if he just sees 10+ phoenix he just goes hyrda roach which will destroy me because my robo and robo bay will be really delayed.
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The reason because phoenixes suck against mutas is that phoenixes cannot keep up with mutas both in damage input AND productionc capabilty, unless you go 3 stargates with plus 1 upgrades, and even then zerg can just get roaches and kill you. As many pros say the only situation in which phoenixes re really effective is when both mutas and phoenixes are in really low numbers and you to timing push the zerg.
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Just saying, if you have such a big problem with muta-using zerg that you're thinking about quitting the game, why not try something else? Go stargate builds instead, they very effectively discourage the zerg from going spire. Maybe it's not your cup of tea, but it's definitely something to try before giving up on the game. I have no chance at using muta against my protoss friends, it's downright impossible when they get air early.
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Sorry bro, are you talking to me or collinator? ;D
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On December 08 2011 22:11 SCHammer wrote:
The reason because phoenixes suck against mutas is that phoenixes cannot keep up with mutas both in damage input AND productionc capabilty, unless you go 3 stargates with plus 1 upgrades, and even then zerg can just get roaches and kill you. As many pros say the only situation in which phoenixes re really effective is when both mutas and phoenixes are in really low numbers and you to timing push the zerg.
There's truth in that, but the point is that mutas can't catch up to phoenix at all, so damage input is quite irrelevant unless you stop microing the phoenix. If I see phoenix, I don't even try to go muta, I will just get pushed, the phoenix force me to engage them with my mutas, then they kite them away. When my mutas get back, the ground battle is already lost.
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On December 08 2011 22:15 SCHammer wrote:
Sorry bro, are you talking to me or collinator? ;D
Collinator, he's the only one who has mentioned quitting the game.
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Crap, I didnt'see that D:
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is the only way to avoid this whole mess is to go forge fe everygame, followed by stargate? i hardly every forge fe anymore and i just about never go stargate unless i know it can do something.
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Zurich15362 Posts
On December 08 2011 22:01 NrGmonk wrote:Hey, here's a few tips that'll help your replays get analyzed. First, calm down. You're more likely to get help if you don't look like you're just QQing about mutas. Pick one representative replay and analyze it yourself. This accomplished a few things. 1. It's REQUIRED by forum guidelines and you thread could be closed because of this alone. 2. People are much more likely to watch one replay than four. 3. People are more likely to help you if they see you put effort into your OP. 3. You'll get better responses/analysis that are targeted for you and may clear up your misconceptions. Also, I'm assuming you've read this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=287788
Yes please, do that.
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On December 08 2011 22:22 CollinatoR wrote:
is the only way to avoid this whole mess is to go forge fe everygame, followed by stargate? i hardly every forge fe anymore and i just about never go stargate unless i know it can do something.
Nah, don't get me wrong, you don't HAVE to do a stargate build to beat a zerg going muta. It's just something you can try to get some perspective if your standard build just isn't working out. You sound very frustrated in your opening post, so trying something new might be nice.
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EPT
