They're good for nydus cheese vrs FFE>Stargate, but at the top level, no one has really shown that much use for them, so I don't see the point speculating. If you're a top level player, play around with them, if not, wait for LosirA or someone to find a way to make them work, it doesn't look promising for them right now.

papyrus

Philippines716 Posts

August 31 2011 02:07 GMT

#22

or maybe having an option to evolve to Lurkers would help, god i love lurkers. I'll play zerg if there are lurkers in their arsenal.

Probe1

United States17920 Posts

August 31 2011 02:10 GMT

#23

Every month this comes around and every month the same conclusions are pitched. They need more speed or more hp. Even turning them into lurkers would be a bit silly at T2.

Gah. I wish Blizzard hadn't mucked it up. Hydras are supposed to fill a role in the Zerg line up that balances out the weakest early game anti air. Instead they wind up being pitiful and Zerg relies on infestors to solve all problems

DarkPlasmaBall

United States44214 Posts

August 31 2011 02:12 GMT

#24

Speed: Slow off creep? You should be spreading creep o.O Practically a non-issue.

Low hp? High dps. Good against Protoss's gateway units, immortals, air. Forces Protoss to transition to colossi, which you can prepare for with roaches and corruptors.

I wouldn't be surprised if something happens to them in HotS though, as they do seem a little bland...

Hikari

1914 Posts

August 31 2011 02:13 GMT

#25

Why does every zerg unit need a speed upgrade to work? Zergling has ling speed, bane has bane speed, roach has roach speed, ultra used to have ultra speed.... hydras are so slow off creep which makes retreating almost impossible, esp given their fragile nature. A hydra speed upgrade.. well... I suppose fits right into the toolkit of zerg upgrades.

Tokyla

Canada42 Posts

August 31 2011 02:14 GMT

#26

I find that hyrdas are a good counter to a zerg who is teching to mutas, if you spot the spire just get some hydras and you're good!

BBWsuperstar

74 Posts

August 31 2011 02:16 GMT

#27

I think hydras need EITHER a range or speed buff. Terran player here, but i never see them in tvz, even if i build air units it's usually mutas/corrupters that clean me out.

Arterial

Australia1039 Posts

August 31 2011 02:19 GMT

#28

On August 31 2011 11:12 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Speed: Slow off creep? You should be spreading creep o.O Practically a non-issue.

Low hp? High dps. Good against Protoss's gateway units, immortals, air. Forces Protoss to transition to colossi, which you can prepare for with roaches and corruptors.

I wouldn't be surprised if something happens to them in HotS though, as they do seem a little bland...

So you're suggesting that I have my creep spread all the way to his base? Even though the odds of him having an observer and sniping creep tumors is very high?

High DPS is great, if your unit is still alive. Remember the Hydra is an expensive unit.

Deacon

United States27 Posts

August 31 2011 02:24 GMT

#29

Unfortunately the only roles in which the hydra is used are roles that overcome its awful speed: drop play and 2 base nydus shenanigans. They peform both of these roles pretty well, too. Until they receive an upgrade to speed or something similiar though, I don't see them breaking out of their shell anytime soon. We can only hope HotS brings them to the point where they can be used like a normal unit.

Mirror0423

United States175 Posts

August 31 2011 02:35 GMT

#30

Hydras are just niche units. Sorta like the immortal for protoss, and... well terran doesn't really have one equivalnt. I mean immortals are also terrible against almost any composition, impossible to micro terribly bad at being cost effective except against a mass roach army. Zerg gets a few hydras to counter voidrays, toss gets a couple immortals to survive, but once that stage is past, unless opponents have a very speicific composition you RARELY see immortals used in more than 2~3.

Hydras are AMAZING against gateway units (even with blink) as long as you have lings with the hydras. I mean almost all "dps" units need a tanking unit in the front, even the "OPed" colossi. Ever see ling/hydra V zealot/stalker? with even blink and charge, zerg is definitely will be okay.

Not every unit is supposed to be able to become a "main army composition". I think the existence of these niche units are what makes the game better and wish there were more of them.

Jerubaal

United States7684 Posts

August 31 2011 02:39 GMT

#31

Dozens of pro replays at the highest level disagree with you.

StJuneZerg

United States12 Posts

August 31 2011 02:41 GMT

#32

Has anyone thought of burrowed movement for the hydra? It's slow but you can protect it underground and with movement it will allow some way of getting out of the fight rather than just losing your entire army. Also with burrowed movement, you can use hydras to pop up behind mineral lines or in bases in general since their low hp won't be a problem against buildings and high dps can make them effective at taking out key pylons, addons, etc. I think that doing hydra drops is great but is risky. If you lose one drop filled with 4 hydras, it's a huge cost vs some of the other more commonly dropped units that terran use. The idea of a strong dps low hp unit (baneling included) sounds great for harassing targets that can't attack. Roaches have burrowed movement also but if you were to compare the dps output of the same number of roaches and hydras, you can imagine the use of these quick lethal killers taking out key structures since they are less commonly used in army engagements due to lack of hp. Thoughts? Am I crazy?

See.Blue

United States2673 Posts

August 31 2011 02:44 GMT

#33

In a pineapple under the sea

PineapplePizza

United States749 Posts

August 31 2011 02:44 GMT

#34

The Hydralisk is a cameo unit from Brood War which is used as an emergency unit against double stargate / mutalisks, or for timing pushes against greedy stargate expand builds. They also help roaches fend off stalker / immortal aggression, though this role can easily be filled by infestors, which are much more versatile and can be used all game long.

julianto

2292 Posts

August 31 2011 02:44 GMT

#35

What about nerfing the hydra and letting it be tier 1 so it can fill the role of early anti-air?

Spinfuser

United States47 Posts

August 31 2011 02:45 GMT

#36

Time for some constructive criticism.
Hydras dps is insanely high. This being said there are very good time pushes zerg can do off of 2 bases that if toss doesn't go colossus early it will crush the toss even against blink. Also since their dps is so high and can shoot up they can lock down any air aggression and because most air units are so weak can easily snipe air units making them very cost efficient and forcing a tech switch from toss.
Against Terran and Toss hydra drop are incredibly powerful as it will completely by pass the enemies wall of or choke. Throw some roaches in to tank the damage and it can be a very effective "doom drop."
Against Terran they are not really used but then again neither is roach unless they are all ins.

tldr: use roaches to tank, use drop or nydus to avoid speed issues and they can be very effective... They have a place in zerg army comps they just need to be used in smarter ways by zerg players.

StJuneZerg

United States12 Posts

August 31 2011 02:46 GMT

#37

Early AA is the queen. make an extra queen for creep spread which can translate into a good idea against everything and if you scout when you're supposed to, an evo chamber and a couple spores + your queens counter clean up the entire build and you're ahead with an extra queen to push creep much faster

StJuneZerg

United States12 Posts

August 31 2011 02:48 GMT

#38

If nestea isn't using them every game then they aren't the right unit to win

DoorKicker

United States7 Posts

August 31 2011 02:53 GMT

#39

Since we're rehashing the old hydra debate I thought I'd throw in the last consideration from previous attempts to balance them: reduce to 1 supply cost.

This would allow you to field hydras in reasonable numbers without completely compromising your army mix with paper tigers.

Plexa

Aotearoa39261 Posts

August 31 2011 02:57 GMT

#40

As a Protoss, Hydras are ridiculous against gateway units. They literally are double marines - twice the HP, twice the damage (but lack stim and a health upgrade

) and we all know how badly marines eat protoss stuff. Except marines get owned by guardian shield, whereas hydras only get slightly impaired...

Yes they are fragile, and yes they are 'slow' (they are as slow as my zealots/sentries/immortals), but they deal amazing damage if protected. If roaches are absorbing the hits then hydras tear through armies. There aren't many other units Zerg have which can absorb hits well, but hydras can also be really deadly as timing pushes to hit before colossus tech gets up.

And yeah, Hydras are countered by the same shit marines are - chargelots, guardian shield/armour upgrades, colossus and storm.