EPT
that sucks.....Patch 1.4 PTR Notes (updated 9/8) - Page 169
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Since this whole topic degenerated into the usual balance flamefest where every topic ends up if unmoderated it's time for it to clean up. Locking this down for a while. Any posts made after my post [page 233] not addressing the changes in this patch directly and containting flames or general balance whine will get banned for at least a week. ~Nyovne There is way too much flaming in this thread right now. Calm down before you post! (Page 271) ~iamke55 | ||
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AxelTVx
Canada916 Posts
that sucks..... | ||
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Fuzzmosis
Canada752 Posts
On August 26 2011 08:02 Dommk wrote: I've got to do something atm, but I want to clear something up. Seeker Missile can only be cast at 6range. It speeds up to an absurd movespeed when it gets within 2range of a unit. Will reply/read the rest of your post later Fair enough. In all honesty, all my tests of HSM have proven it to be laughably bad, like using it in 90% of situations is like saying "You're such an easy win I can HSM you". It's so bad, it's BM to use right now to me, or a goofy FFA tactic. I just assumed that HSM was fired from a safe distance and not within firing range of every single AA unit in the game minus Mutas. If you really wanna chalk up a shorter casting range as a plus, by all means, don't. Please. In the end, this ranting and raving only comes down to nerds venting and arguing. I'd love to see HSM used in a manner that I can ape and be effective, because everything I've tried is 100% luck based or totally valueless. I'm still waiting to sneak that 125 energy raven to a mineral line with 1 mining patch and 40 workers. | ||
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skatbone
United States1005 Posts
On August 26 2011 04:13 moregamethanSEGA wrote: just becuase there are less of them (toss) doesn't mean they are weaker. last time i checked, toss only loses to 1-1-1 build in early game, otherwise they crush face. just ask MC, Huk, Genius, Tassadar, and Puzzle. when you go to college and take stats or math (like i did - as i majored in it) you will learn that 'statistics' are can be molded like play-doh to accomodate whatever argument you are attempting to make - so dont throw stats at someone and say - well there is my infallible arguement like you are the pope or something. just remember you CAN buff toss without nerfing terran. more players use terran which means more wins each month. and maybe toss players are just to zombified right now and are stuck in (must 3 gate robo and expand against terran like nubs - mode) for past few months. What odd speculation this is: "maybe toss players are just to zombified right now and are stuck in (must 3 gate robo and expand against terran like nubs - mode) for past few months." Not only do I rarely use or see 3-gate robo myself or on pro streams, but I have seen quite a bit of experimentation with warp prisms, phoenix, motherships, over the last month. tl;dr Seeing as you are trying to teach someone else about stats, perhaps you would be open to a lesson on the merits of speculating on something in the absence of empirical evidence? Speculation absent evidence generates poor arguments. | ||
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Nebulis
3 Posts
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IVN
534 Posts
On August 26 2011 08:03 Endymion wrote: Omg, the ramp vision change is going to be massive. However, I can tell terrans are going to be super mad about the reduced hellion strength, they're going to be so bad now.. They are going to be good now, as opposed to over powered. I've never managed to kill 10+ workers with only 2 units, when playing protoss. | ||
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babjengi
United States30 Posts
The good points: Immortal range: Finally, immortals moving slower than stalkers and getting caught in the back will happen a lot less often. Also, it'll be just that little bit harder for marines to focus it down, and easier to micro it away. Warp Prism upgrade: Paper airplane finally becomes some form of thin sheet metal plane at least. I would've liked to see a very slight buff to its pre-upgrade speed, but this is still awesome. Now if we could get them to come from the cyber core...  Mothership acceleration: Hooray, now I might be able to outrun a single marine trying to kill my mothership, since it doesn't have enough dps to kill the marine (gross exaggeration). Nonetheless, while it means the mothership will be ever so slightly more mobile, honestly, this issue could've been fixed by keeping your mothership on patrol whenever you weren't using it... This means it has slightly better odds of being able to retreat from a fight, but not too much... Still, it's a step in the right direction. Hellion nerf: Pretty self explanatory. I don't think anyone can disagree with this one. Seeker-missile buff: I'm mixed on this one. While it's good to see that ravens might one day be used for more than cheap one base timings, I'm a little irked that the only unit in the toss army that can outrun it is the stalker (and that's cuz it moves at the same speed), while every single zerg unit can outrun it on creep (except maybe a drone or a queen). It's going to be a weird learning curve to remember how to micro against this thing. Overseer morph cost: tied with the increase cost of contaminate, I feel it's fairly balanced. To those who were wondering about that change, I figure it's because if gas was the limiting factor on making overseers, imagine how many overseers they might make to contaminate your buildings when they're that cheap. Ultralisk morph time change: This will definitely increase ultralisk use because remaxing with ultras won't be a so much of a death sentence (all that supply just waiting... and waiting... and waiting... and there goes my hive) The bad points: Blink change: The limiting factor of a blink all-in against zerg isn't the blink research, it's the +2 attack upgrade. If anything, this only further reduces protoss's earlier game harass options, and basically totally eliminates blink play from PvP. Barracks change: The major issue with terrans, from the protoss standpoint, is the 1-1-1 all-in build. The immortal buff doesn't necessarily fix that. Adding 5 seconds to rax build times doesn't either. This will actually help zergs quite a bit as it'll add time to the 2 rax opener, but that's really all this fixes. Fungal change: If anything, this hurts infestor utility in ZvZ (can't kill lings with a single fungal anymore, still works for blings though). Aside from that, it doesn't change anything in the other matchups (actually might help terrans since it's a slight dps decrease on fungal). This doesn't affect PvZ at all, for which I wish at least an infested terran nerf would've been nice... Perhaps 6 damage per shot. I mean, it IS upgradeable... the lack of stim on infested terrans shouldn't justify that because of their infested nature, suddenly their bullets hit harder... that and technically it makes no sense that zerg ranged upgrades (spines and acid?) would increase bullet damage either... I digress... 6 damage, keep it upgradeable... | ||
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Fuzzmosis
Canada752 Posts
On August 26 2011 08:14 Yaotzin wrote: Simple utility presumably. Banelings can't do friendly fire or they'll just blow each other up in ridiculous fashion. The reason for collo is that they'll simply fry all your zealots. What's the point of these units if they do this? Terran is unusual in that all but their worker is ranged, so a unit like the siege tank makes sense. Not so much when you use melee units. Then do what every Herp Zerg tells every Herp Terran to do: Split your Banelings(Marines) Derp! LOL. Maybe it's just the sadist in me who wants to see 41 Banelings that are clumped together self destruct after 1 siege shot. (Note: Comment is not serious. Commentor is well aware that marching units 1 by 1 towards ranged units spread in a verticle line is an excellent way for them to die 1 by 1. Maybe Horizontal?) | ||
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Fuzzmosis
Canada752 Posts
On August 26 2011 08:24 IVN wrote: They are going to be good now, as opposed to over powered. I've never managed to kill 10+ workers with only 2 units, when playing protoss. I'd like to introduce you to your friends, Dark Templar. Well, I'm happier that you apparently don't know about these harassive and defensive powerhouses, but I figure it's my duty to help spread the love of invisible decimation. | ||
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s3183529
Australia707 Posts
And I don't understand why they nerf blink research time? No zergs or terrans complain about it, if they fix PvP, that's just dumb. PvP is like ZvZ in broodwar, if they do not fix ZvZ in BW, why are they fixing PvP now? | ||
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wolfe
United States761 Posts
Rax nerf is unneeded. Hope it doesn't make it through to the live servers. On August 26 2011 08:28 Fuzzmosis wrote: I'd like to introduce you to your friends, Dark Templar. Well, I'm happier that you apparently don't know about these harassive and defensive powerhouses, but I figure it's my duty to help spread the love of invisible decimation. lol well played. :D | ||
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
On August 26 2011 07:30 moregamethanSEGA wrote: OH BTW, the counter to seeker missle - BURRRRRRROW. Burrowed units can still be targeted by the Seeker Missile. I mean, unless it was changed since Battle Report #2 back in the Beginning of Time. Incidentally, watching that early iteration of the game in hindsight is awesome. Spine Crawlers look so ridiculously weak. And Hatcheries are cancelled in an actual fountain of blood. And Banelings are huge! Watch it! | ||
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Yaotzin
South Africa4280 Posts
On August 26 2011 08:28 s3183529 wrote: Why do they nerf BHF though? I don't think Korean Zergs have much problem against it? Do they nerf it cuz of Anaheim? That would be ridiculous cuz that's Koreans vs foreigners. I'd bet money that at least 75% of workers killed in the GSL are thanks to hellions, including some silly games where both players wipe each others mineral lines out. | ||
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IVN
534 Posts
On August 26 2011 08:28 Fuzzmosis wrote: I'd like to introduce you to your friends, Dark Templar. Well, I'm happier that you apparently don't know about these harassive and defensive powerhouses, but I figure it's my duty to help spread the love of invisible decimation. OK, then you would have nothing against a hefty price tag, right? 150mins/150gas would fit hellions with the current damage and speed pretty good, dont you think? | ||
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H0i
Netherlands484 Posts
On August 26 2011 08:28 Fuzzmosis wrote: I'd like to introduce you to your friends, Dark Templar. Well, I'm happier that you apparently don't know about these harassive and defensive powerhouses, but I figure it's my duty to help spread the love of invisible decimation. But dark templars are way more expensive and come a lot later in the game. They're also slower and don't have a huge AoE line. | ||
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ZAiNs
United Kingdom6525 Posts
On August 26 2011 08:31 Fanatic-Templar wrote: Burrowed units can still be targeted by the Seeker Missile. I mean, unless it was changed since Battle Report #2 back in the Beginning of Time. Incidentally, watching that early iteration of the game in hindsight is awesome. Spine Crawlers look so ridiculously weak. And Hatcheries are cancelled in an actual fountain of blood. And Banelings are huge! Watch it! In Battle Report 3 David Kim makes a Warp Prism and warps in several Immortals to kill a Hatchery, if only that were still possible . | ||
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H0i
Netherlands484 Posts
On August 26 2011 08:33 IVN wrote: OK, then you would have nothing against a hefty price tag, right? 150mins/150gas would fit hellions with the current damage and speed pretty good, dont you think? Changing dt cost to 100 minerals and unlocking them with cyber core would be a better option! That would actually be hilarious. Then, people can make threads on teamliquid about how it is overpowered, and others can then reply, talking about how it should get some time and how the metagame will evolve. | ||
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Fuzzmosis
Canada752 Posts
On August 26 2011 08:33 IVN wrote: OK, then you would have nothing against a hefty price tag, right? 150mins/150gas would fit hellions with the current damage and speed pretty good, dont you think? Agreed, if Dark Templars are permamently visible. Hey, they have 3x the damage against all types! Don't you hate it when really strong units exist on all three sides? Apparently you do. | ||
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babjengi
United States30 Posts
On August 26 2011 08:28 Fuzzmosis wrote: I'd like to introduce you to your friends, Dark Templar. Well, I'm happier that you apparently don't know about these harassive and defensive powerhouses, but I figure it's my duty to help spread the love of invisible decimation. This comment right here proves you know nothing about the game. Just one spore crawler and one spine crawler at a base, and with just that, I have to have at least 4+ dark templar to take that base (not to mention, drones run faster than dt's). I need even more if the queen has energy for a transfuse. Against a terran with planetary fortress and one missile turret + scans, and 100 dt's couldn't touch that. Hellions? Who cares if you lose them. If each hellion kills 1.5 workers, they've paid for themselves. DT's? Not so much. | ||
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ShadowStarshine
6 Posts
Blink nerf is for PvP, so that canon expands are more viable. Generally the answer to canon expands is to blink past and continue to kill things. Barracks gives zerg 5 more seconds to deal with 2 rax bunker pressure. Though, I don't think it was necessary. | ||
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dudecrush
Canada418 Posts
Old infestors: 36 vs. unarmored, 46.8 vs. armored. New infestors: 30 vs. unarmored, 40 vs. armored. Not a huge change, but not insignificant either. And I love the mothership speed boost. I'm zerg, but I love the mothership so much. | ||
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