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On June 10 2011 12:38 haxard wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2011 12:11 ihavetofartosis wrote:On June 10 2011 11:10 Diks wrote:On June 10 2011 09:36 obsKura wrote:Update from Grubby's Fanpage on Facebook. He replied to a post on his Wall concerning this issue: https://www.facebook.com/FollowGrubby"Hey Manuel, the scene is quite confused right now about your promo of the SteelSeries Shift keyboard. I don't think this was intentionally but it would be awesome to hear your thoughts on this. The thread on TL does have already 34 pages. Just wanted to let you know in case you have not yet seen it. -> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=231856"Grubby "It being a StarCraft 2 branded keyboard, SteelSeries has checked with Blizzard before producing the Shift. It is not illegal of course." Please stop throwing shit on him. This should definitely be added to the OP. Wrong "It is not illegal of course." Except it is. As stated in the Starcraft 2 Terms of Service, and by Blizzard employees: ![[image loading]](http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/9687/macros.png) I really don't see how people can support this when its completely illegal to bound +2 actions to 1 keystroke, yea you can use the keyboard and blizzard may support it but it does not support the macro feature. its cheating plain and simple
I really don't think illegal is the appropriate term to use in this scenario.
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Playing with this keyboard is pure cheating. What the hell was SteelSeries thinking when they were advertising this? And how come Grubby wasn't aware of the fact that he was supporting such a product? Or was he?
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On June 10 2011 13:04 W2 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2011 12:27 pbjsandwich wrote:
yeah there's totally 10,000 viewers going to watch a stream of the top200 KOTH or GSL Code B
I could totally understand if you guys were arguing about this in REAL competition that means something but it doesn't and you guys are just vilifying 2 bodies that are apart of the esports scene's growth
This is what's getting me ITT I understand you're angry but the "those aren't real tournaments" argument is just a diversion. It's just promoting double standards/double rules. And just because they are glorified figures in e-sports doesn't mean people should turn a blind eye. Let people speak. By spewing silly arguments in defense you are just making them side more heavily against Grubby and steelseries.
it's not a silly argument though
people need to have a bigger view of esports
Sorry but it really does not matter if a person uses a macro keyboard in a 100 dollar weekend tourny
It really matter that the steelseries commercial has a ton of Dislikes and a ton of hate in their comments
That really really matters
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Macro keyboards are allowed on Bnet, but not at tournaments. And its not as if grubby is saying Hey i use this you should too! he is spnosored by Steel sereis, so as part of that he has to do ads for them etc
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On June 10 2011 13:12 pbjsandwich wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2011 13:04 W2 wrote:On June 10 2011 12:27 pbjsandwich wrote:
yeah there's totally 10,000 viewers going to watch a stream of the top200 KOTH or GSL Code B
I could totally understand if you guys were arguing about this in REAL competition that means something but it doesn't and you guys are just vilifying 2 bodies that are apart of the esports scene's growth
This is what's getting me ITT I understand you're angry but the "those aren't real tournaments" argument is just a diversion. It's just promoting double standards/double rules. And just because they are glorified figures in e-sports doesn't mean people should turn a blind eye. Let people speak. By spewing silly arguments in defense you are just making them side more heavily against Grubby and steelseries. it's not a silly argument though people need to have a bigger view of esports Sorry but it really does not matter if a person uses a macro keyboard in a 100 dollar weekend tourny It really matter that the steelseries commercial has a ton of Dislikes and a ton of hate in their comments That really really matters
All you're saying is "It doesn't matter". You're not saying why it doesn't matter. Many people have said why they think it matters. Reasons such as: The standard of competitive play, as dictated by Blizzard and every tournament out there, is that 1 key stroke needs to mean 1 action. By entering in a tournament, you agree to their rules. By laddering, you agree to their rules. Choosing to disregard them is selfish and a disrespect to both your opponent and the competition.
All you are saying is that for whatever reason, you are not bothered by it. But here's the thing: You represent yourself, not the community, and certainly not Blizzard or any tournament organizers. This has already been decided a long time ago. This isn't a new issue and nothing has changed.
On June 10 2011 13:16 L3g3nd_ wrote:
Macro keyboards are allowed on Bnet, but not at tournaments. And its not as if grubby is saying Hey i use this you should too! he is spnosored by Steel sereis, so as part of that he has to do ads for them etc
Blizzard TOS clearly state that 1 key = 1 action.
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On June 10 2011 13:11 edc.initiative wrote:
Playing with this keyboard is pure cheating. What the hell was SteelSeries thinking when they were advertising this? And how come Grubby wasn't aware of the fact that he was supporting such a product? Or was he?
SteelSeries probably wasn't aware of the rule or they wouldn't have done the ad, and they sponsor Grubby, and Grubby is doing an ad for them for money, and progamers like money.
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On June 10 2011 13:12 pbjsandwich wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2011 13:04 W2 wrote:On June 10 2011 12:27 pbjsandwich wrote:
yeah there's totally 10,000 viewers going to watch a stream of the top200 KOTH or GSL Code B
I could totally understand if you guys were arguing about this in REAL competition that means something but it doesn't and you guys are just vilifying 2 bodies that are apart of the esports scene's growth
This is what's getting me ITT I understand you're angry but the "those aren't real tournaments" argument is just a diversion. It's just promoting double standards/double rules. And just because they are glorified figures in e-sports doesn't mean people should turn a blind eye. Let people speak. By spewing silly arguments in defense you are just making them side more heavily against Grubby and steelseries. it's not a silly argument though people need to have a bigger view of esports Sorry but it really does not matter if a person uses a macro keyboard in a 100 dollar weekend tourny It really matter that the steelseries commercial has a ton of Dislikes and a ton of hate in their comments That really really matters
That's entirely your opinion that the use of macro keys in small tournies doesn't matter. You make it sound like a supported fact. Most of us aren't zealous fanboys of gaming peripheral companies, and will call them out on advertising their products as a means to gain an unfair advantage in a multiplayer game. They aren't immune to criticism solely because they inject cash into the esports scene.
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On June 10 2011 13:06 Helixpython wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2011 12:38 haxard wrote:On June 10 2011 12:11 ihavetofartosis wrote:On June 10 2011 11:10 Diks wrote:On June 10 2011 09:36 obsKura wrote:Update from Grubby's Fanpage on Facebook. He replied to a post on his Wall concerning this issue: https://www.facebook.com/FollowGrubby"Hey Manuel, the scene is quite confused right now about your promo of the SteelSeries Shift keyboard. I don't think this was intentionally but it would be awesome to hear your thoughts on this. The thread on TL does have already 34 pages. Just wanted to let you know in case you have not yet seen it. -> http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=231856"Grubby "It being a StarCraft 2 branded keyboard, SteelSeries has checked with Blizzard before producing the Shift. It is not illegal of course." Please stop throwing shit on him. This should definitely be added to the OP. Wrong "It is not illegal of course." Except it is. As stated in the Starcraft 2 Terms of Service, and by Blizzard employees: I really don't see how people can support this when its completely illegal to bound +2 actions to 1 keystroke, yea you can use the keyboard and blizzard may support it but it does not support the macro feature. its cheating plain and simple I really don't think illegal is the appropriate term to use in this scenario.
PLease not again. We had this some pages back, and it appears in every single thread about any bannable offense in any game. It also is completely pointless every single time.
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On June 10 2011 13:12 pbjsandwich wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2011 13:04 W2 wrote:On June 10 2011 12:27 pbjsandwich wrote:
yeah there's totally 10,000 viewers going to watch a stream of the top200 KOTH or GSL Code B
I could totally understand if you guys were arguing about this in REAL competition that means something but it doesn't and you guys are just vilifying 2 bodies that are apart of the esports scene's growth
This is what's getting me ITT I understand you're angry but the "those aren't real tournaments" argument is just a diversion. It's just promoting double standards/double rules. And just because they are glorified figures in e-sports doesn't mean people should turn a blind eye. Let people speak. By spewing silly arguments in defense you are just making them side more heavily against Grubby and steelseries. it's not a silly argument though people need to have a bigger view of esports Sorry but it really does not matter if a person uses a macro keyboard in a 100 dollar weekend tourny It really matter that the steelseries commercial has a ton of Dislikes and a ton of hate in their comments That really really matters
No matter how you try to justify it, whether it's in a random Bronze league ladder match or a $50,000 tournament, cheating is still cheating.
If you think that using 3rd party software to give yourself an advantage over your opponent is acceptable on any level then I don't think you belong in this community.
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On June 10 2011 13:12 pbjsandwich wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2011 13:04 W2 wrote:On June 10 2011 12:27 pbjsandwich wrote:
yeah there's totally 10,000 viewers going to watch a stream of the top200 KOTH or GSL Code B
I could totally understand if you guys were arguing about this in REAL competition that means something but it doesn't and you guys are just vilifying 2 bodies that are apart of the esports scene's growth
This is what's getting me ITT I understand you're angry but the "those aren't real tournaments" argument is just a diversion. It's just promoting double standards/double rules. And just because they are glorified figures in e-sports doesn't mean people should turn a blind eye. Let people speak. By spewing silly arguments in defense you are just making them side more heavily against Grubby and steelseries. it's not a silly argument though people need to have a bigger view of esports Sorry but it really does not matter if a person uses a macro keyboard in a 100 dollar weekend tourny It really matter that the steelseries commercial has a ton of Dislikes and a ton of hate in their comments That really really matters
Can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not... Dislikes and youtube hate comments? Oh my goodness, I think steelseries should consider filing for bankruptcy.
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On June 10 2011 12:32 pbjsandwich wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2011 12:31 Angry_Fetus wrote:
How does it being ladder, and your characterization of that as non-competitive, have any bearing on the severity of abusing macros? Should a fairly casual masters (or any league for that matter) player have to play against someone abusing macros? Should they just suck it up and not care that they aren't on a level playing field? Honestly? You won't even know they're using it unless they tell you. Do you not agree that everyone ITT is vilifying 2 people that are helping esports?
You are the kind of person that ruin these threads and make it horrible to read. You are just spam-posting an irrelevant opinion. Your posts account for 25% of the posts on the last page. Stop ruining the thread.
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You guys say that it's my opinion that these small tournies don't matter but I stated why they don't matter
can you argue against that?
The small tournies get small time numbers
They're not going to effect the scene as much as the big tournies or big names
and is this thread criticism or unnecessary backlash for a mistake in marketing?
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oh man
ok I wasn't trying to cause such a stir in this thread
But I hope you guys realize that this thread is doing more bad than it is good.
I never said that it isn;t cheating. Of course it's cheating but in the grand scheme of what SC2 is trying to become this thread and the backlash coming from this thread hurts it.
I'm not gonna act like "Oh no! it's the end of SC2!" but saying shit like "I'm neber gonna buy steelseries again" or "grubby promotes cheating" isn't helping anybody
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It's telling Steelseries that it is not ok to increase sales by promoting unfair play. It's entirely necessary, as without a backlash, they would continue to misinform potential buyers that it is acceptable to use macros in SC2. You honestly sound like a PR bot for Steelseries.
And stop double/triple/quad posting. There is an edit button for a reason.
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On June 10 2011 13:12 pbjsandwich wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2011 13:04 W2 wrote:On June 10 2011 12:27 pbjsandwich wrote:
yeah there's totally 10,000 viewers going to watch a stream of the top200 KOTH or GSL Code B
I could totally understand if you guys were arguing about this in REAL competition that means something but it doesn't and you guys are just vilifying 2 bodies that are apart of the esports scene's growth
This is what's getting me ITT I understand you're angry but the "those aren't real tournaments" argument is just a diversion. It's just promoting double standards/double rules. And just because they are glorified figures in e-sports doesn't mean people should turn a blind eye. Let people speak. By spewing silly arguments in defense you are just making them side more heavily against Grubby and steelseries. it's not a silly argument though people need to have a bigger view of esports Sorry but it really does not matter if a person uses a macro keyboard in a 100 dollar weekend tourny It really matter that the steelseries commercial has a ton of Dislikes and a ton of hate in their comments That really really matters
lol tell me why it doesnt matter if a person uses a macro keyboard in a $100 weekend tourney? tell me why and please make it good cuz you look foolish with such statements 
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Naw I'll post how I want. Go fuckyourself I'm done with this thread  )))
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On June 10 2011 13:31 pbjsandwich wrote:
oh man
ok I wasn't trying to cause such a stir in this thread
But I hope you guys realize that this thread is doing more bad than it is good.
I never said that it isn;t cheating. Of course it's cheating but in the grand scheme of what SC2 is trying to become this thread and the backlash coming from this thread hurts it.
I'm not gonna act like "Oh no! it's the end of SC2!" but saying shit like "I'm neber gonna buy steelseries again" or "grubby promotes cheating" isn't helping anybody
Sure is since you joined it. Your trolling isn't helping this thread or anyone. All you've done is blame the community for telling something to Steel Series they should've already knew if they were in touch with the community.
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On June 10 2011 00:15 emesen wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2011 00:09 RmpL wrote:
How is using simple keyboard macros cheating?
because it is?
Consistantly patching to balance a game so players can win based on skill and then allowing people who can afford hardware to give them an edge is contradictory. The point people are trying to make is that the Starcraft community want players to be on an even footing so that skill and strategy win people games rather then buying hardware or downloading software, and i completely agree .
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There are so many uniformed posts in the last few pages of this thread. It should be a rule that you should at least read the first 5-10 pages of a thread before you post.
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On June 10 2011 13:41 pbjsandwich wrote:Naw I'll post how I want. Go fuckyourself I'm done with this thread )))
Thanks for this intelligent and mature contribution to this thread. We really value your presence on TL.
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EPT
