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[considering starcraft 2]
So I wanted to post this in blogs, but I couldn't find out how to create a topic there (can't find the 'new topic' button). However, it may fit in here as well.
I remember thinking about this before, but decided I'd put it to the test today. What I did was message 15 random known names on the EU server with a fairly innocent question - not one that would require a lot of elaboration. My questions were, depending on the race of the known name:
1. Hi, I don't want to disturb you, but do you think roaches have a place in ZvT? (terran or zerg)
2. Hi, I don't want to disturb you, but do you think banelings have a place in ZvP? (protoss or zerg)
Now I was just looking for a reply. Even a 'yes' and no further elaboration would be great. However, out of the 15 I asked, only aAaNerchio and RAZERiNSo gave me a reply.
I asked 15 random people from the teamliquid chat as well: out of 15 people, 15(!) gave me a reply (although one of them was 'fuck off', so I guess we can call it 14 out of 15).
Bare in mind that I also screened for activity - i.e. the messages were sent either when they just got out of a game or just logged on. Two pros (I won't specifically name anyone) just changed their status immediately to busy and flat-out ignored me, others would just ignore me and get into another game.
Now I personally find that this creates distance that is counterproductive to making eSports flourish, and would like to have teamliquid's opinion on the matter. Then again, I can get into the expert point of view, where they probably reason 'I don't want to get into a balance discussion with every other idiot after every game'. Even though I can obviously understand the expert point of view, I still feel like it is counterproductive for the whole sc2 community.
I have been on day9 three times (as 'HUARGH'), 2 funday mondays and 1 newbie tuesday, and I get the question 'are you huargh from day9?' A LOT. This was fun at first, but over the months this has become fairly repetitive and I'm not always looking forward to answering this same question. However, I still do, and sometimes even have a short chat or go out of my way to e-mail them one of the replays.
Some people also randomly ask me for opinions about strategy and gameplay. I often play 4v4 with real life friends who are bronze to gold league, so I tend to be the best player in the game (I peaked top 198 EU last season). If someone from the opponent's team asks me a balance or gameplay question, I always give them an answer - sometimes short (i.e. 'no, because tanks will rape you'), sometimes elaborate depending on how many 1v1s I lost in a row before the 4v4 session. I feel like I am obliged to answer these questions from a moral point of view - you have someone of lesser skill who wants your superior insight/help in a situation. When typing 'yeh, if he opens air, otherwise don't' takes a few seconds, I see no reason why you would not give a short reply.
As I have said before, I really feel like this creates some sort of distance. I used to be a huge chess nerd (still am in some sort of way; not as much anymore though) and remember having Daniël Stellwagen play at a chess site I used to visit when I was much younger. Giddy and nervously I PMd him a very stupid, general question (I was 14 years old or so): 'what do you think is the best opening move for white?' to which he lovely replied: 'there is no single best opening move, but e4 and d4 are the most popular'. I don't think I would ever get such a reply in sc2.
Poll: Do you think pros should generally be more friendly and interactive?No (162) 74% Yes (58) 26% 220 total votes Your vote: Do you think pros should generally be more friendly and interactive? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
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Theres no downside to being nice in the sc2 community. But I can imagine that a day of stressful laddering can make people a bit edgy. Another situation in which they may not want to answer as you stated, was if they already get the questions all day long. I sometimes get random pms (only master in my friends that play sc2). I always respond nicely, but then again it may be because I know them.
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I have been on day9 three times (as 'HUARGH'), 2 funday mondays and 1 newbie tuesday, and I get the question 'are you huargh from day9?' A LOT. This was fun at first, but over the months this has become fairly repetitive and I'm not always looking forward to answering this same question. However, I still do, and sometimes even have a short chat or go out of my way to e-mail them one of the replays.
Take the number of ppl asking you questions about you being huargh and multiply it by 100, now you got the number of people messaging the pros in an hour. I don't really blame the pros for not answering "randoms" since they get so many messages all the time from ppl. Just watch inc's or huk's stream and you'll see infinite messages after every game/on facebook/on msn.
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Do you think pros should be your personal sparring partner just because you somehow got their ID? have you any idea how annoing you must be to them?
Edit: How can you feel intitled to a response? you dont know them, you dont pay them, they are not a public sercive just bec they are "pros"
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I once messaged EGDemulsim not expecting anything and actually was pleasantly surprised to get an answer (It was just a Hi big fan Good luck sort of message)
I think it just depends on the guy you message.
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On April 12 2011 02:44 TOCHMY wrote:Show nested quote +I have been on day9 three times (as 'HUARGH'), 2 funday mondays and 1 newbie tuesday, and I get the question 'are you huargh from day9?' A LOT. This was fun at first, but over the months this has become fairly repetitive and I'm not always looking forward to answering this same question. However, I still do, and sometimes even have a short chat or go out of my way to e-mail them one of the replays.
Take the number of ppl asking you questions about you being huargh and multiply it by 100, now you got the number of people messaging the pros in an hour. I don't really blame the pros for not answering "randoms" since they get so many messages all the time from ppl. Just watch inc's or huk's stream and you'll see infinite messages after every game/on facebook/on msn.
Yea i have to agree with you... I think pros simply streaming and chatting a bit on there is more than enough on their part.
You have to realize that when a pro is laddering or practicing online its like Kobe at a shoot around... yea maybe he'll answer your questions real quick, but dude is trying to get work in.
He's in a totally different state of mind than you playing around with your friends on 4v4
I think Mondragon recently answering fan mail, the weekly SoTG, friendsday wednesday on day9 and community outreach along those lines is not only a much more reasonable thing to ask of a Pro gamer, but also gives a lot more to the community than simply answering a thousand PMs when one is trying to work.
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I think that it could be a good thing for pro's to think about, but the sheer amount is the problem for them. SOOOOO many people msg the pro's alllll the time, and generally when they are playing it's ladder grinding with little downtime.
I have only said one thing to a pro ever though, told kiwi grats on second at MLG, and got a ty.
Those two letters made me feel pretty damn special though. xD
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If they stopped clicking find game and answered every single fan that messaged them, they wouldn't get to play for 30 min to an hour. I think you should just go to an event and talk to them there, from what I've heard, most pros don't mind talking during downtime between games or when they are signing autographs ect.
Just think of it this way, they are at work (practicing Strarcraft II) and people message them consistently while they are playing. Now picture you being at work, people ask you questions over and over and over to the point you can't concentrate on what you are actually needing to do....work. I'm sure at first it is flattering, but after a while it has to be annoying getting asked the same questions over and over and over.
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No, they have work to do and it is extremely rude to randomly interrupt them, especially to ask questions that could be answered with google searches, a strat forum thread, and the viewing of a few vods.
plus there are like 5 "ask a player" articles accepting questions all the time....why not use one of these official channels instead of spamming them on bnet.
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Hey, I've met you several times on the ladder if i recall, i THINK you play T? I have a bad memory so I wouldn't be so sure.
About your OP, as much as i would like to agree with you and say that they should, but no, i mean nobody wants somebody asking them questions all the time.
While i understand your situation and about people asking you, it happens to me too because of my stream etc... BUT it sure as hell doesn't happen to me as often as it does to those pros! and I won't lie i sometimes ignore the questions, if I'm in a bad mood.
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Yeah, pros probably get spammed a good amount, which would be frustrating. There would be better options to contact them than in game messaging. Like others said, community shows are good, and possibly even TL PMs.
I think it should also be noted your questions. I might ignore people sending me such ambiguous questions like that while I was trying to ladder as well.
I support more community interaction but only within the proper forum, a neutral, agreed upon ground so to speak.
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Well if lots of people PM them I understand why they flat-out don't respond. It's simply too tedious and frustrating.
However I do remember my noob-days playing BW on the EU server, and later on Iccup. Yes, the good players always had the option of smurfing back then, but I don't think anyone expected them to respond to random PMs. What surprised me and gave me a warm fuzzy feeling about the community as a whole was that whenever I randomly got into a game with someone decently-known (happened a few times, despite myself being a lowly C level Terran), the other guy was always talkative and responsive to my dialog. I specifically remember a game or two with Tarson and Mondragon, they were very friendly. So was Tyler a few years back, when he smashed me in a ten minute TvP the only time I logged onto US West.
The community in SC2 is much bigger, and thus inherently invites a stronger feel of anonymity on the servers, despite the 1 name/account limitation. Maybe the good players don't want to lose focus while laddering, but I definitely think the friendliness is sufficient, even though more can never hurt.
Also, my general impression is that outside of the ladder, every known player except maybe Idra makes an effort to respond to his fans. The point is, as stated by others, a player trying to earn some money with SC2 treats his laddering session completely different than a casual diamond-level or below player.
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I used to play WoW and was well known on my server as one of the better arena players, and after I had a break or something and came back the ammount of questions simply became annoying, so I can imagine if you are a famous SC2 player, and people keep asking you silly/annoying questions you don't want to reply.
Another thing, watching for example grubby his stream, he had like 50+ chat windows open, and it would take him quite some time to answer all the questions people asked, it's not hard to imagine someone isn't interested in that.
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Well if i was a pro i would love my fans, and answer every question they had. But i guess if you get alot of questions every day it'll get annoying after a while.
Also, you're asking a very vague question about roaches/banelings, do you just expect the pro to say yes/no? I see this on streams as well, some guy will ask something like "what do you think about roach/hydra/muta in ZvT?" - i mean, what is the guy supposed to answer, he doesnt have time to write out a huge answer and the question itself is just sort of wierd. Maybe if people asked more "normal" questions more pros might reply.
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On April 12 2011 02:45 Soier wrote:
Edit: How can you feel intitled to a response? you dont know them, you dont pay them, they are not a public sercive just bec they are "pros"
I have no clue how it works over there in Denmark, but the way I see it is that companies sponsor events for the viewers, not for the pros. The pros make money because of us, and if you/they think otherwise you're sadly mistaken
On April 12 2011 02:44 TOCHMY wrote:
Just watch inc's or huk's stream and you'll see infinite messages after every game/on facebook/on msn.
The question is have you watched their streams? I've watched incs and huks a few times and geoff responds to every message he gets and both of them are interactive with stream chat. Your argument is "they shouldn't have to respond to everything because these 2 guys who get spammed all day do respond to everything" lmfao.
Any Pro-gamer or even amateur who refuses to interact with his fans is only doing it for the money and shouldn't have any fans. And they sure as hell don't care if eSports grows if they're giving people the cold shoulder. It falls on the Pro-gamer to schedule his time efficiently not the fans.
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I used to talk to pros all the time when I made tournaments. They were almost always nice. Almost every time they responded with something. However I'm pretty sure thats changed somewhat but w.e its cool. Most top players will respond unless their pissed off or in game. (From my personal experience)
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I think it depends largely on...
-the amount of time the pro happens to have at the moment
-how long/ elaborate your message is
-how long/ elaborate his reply would have to be
-how personable the pro is in general
-about ten other things
There are probably many variables that go into a topic like this. A bunch of us are definitely star struck and would love it if our favorite SC2 icon would Message us back after we put our heart and soul into a love note that we sent them...
But I don't know how realistic that is.
But feel free to do it anyway! 
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If you phoned up, say, Tiger Woods and asked him a general question about golf, would you expect an appropriate answer or 'fuck off'?
Pretty much the same thing randomly messaging a Starcraft 2 pro. Theres a time and a place for pros to interact with the community, but like a lot of people have said above me, messaging them in game isn't the right way to go about it.
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I am sure you are aware these guys get hounded all the time when they log onto B.Net, so no I don't think they have to be more friendly or answer every single question they're given in this situation even if you ask it in a polite manner. What they do with their time is up to them. No reply should suffice. They don't want to be bothered.
B.Net 2.0 is far more intrusive compared to the old one. I don't think they owe anything to anybody.
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I dont see the point in your post, since you answer your question yourself. Do i rather use rooks or bishops in late game? Im pretty sure 95% of the questions pro's are being asked are just nonsense and pointless since there is no general answer to it. Do drones have a place in lategame ZvP? You peak 198 in EU and still ask these sort of questions, questions you easily could answer yourself by doing some research. Now imagine what the average question they get looks like, multiply that by 100 like a previous poster wrote, and figure -.-
I think the real problem is that there is just too much attention whoring around.
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EPT
