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On December 13 2010 03:55 Hatsu wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2010 03:48 sikyon wrote:
I actually really hate the fact that gold is traded as a precious metal commodity since I'm trying to use it right now to synthesize some gold-coated nanoparticles and it's mad expensive. If it makes you feel better, other metals such as iridium skyrocketed even more, it's not just precious metals.
Unlike gold, there's actually a reason for the iridium price increase! Over the last few years new applications for iridium have been coming around. Some of those applications (like touch screens and LEDs) are mass markets. Iridium is pretty scarce so the price goes up! Gold on the other hand...
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Did anything actually happen recently to make gold more valuable? Have jewelry tastes shifted to gold? Has some sort of technological innovation made gold much more valuable than it was before? No. It shouldn't be going up. The most logical argument for why it should go up is that people are buying "things" because they're worried about inflation, except that that could equally be true of any other metal/commodity/etc. The real reason it's going up is that people are stupid. Watch tv and look at all the stupid infomercials for gold. That's generating a lot of demand. Eventually those people will stop buying it, and the price will go back down.
If gold was clearly priced too low, huge wall street firms would buy tons of it instantly and force the price up to where it should be. They have lots of smart people working 80 hour weeks to figure out this stuff. They're sometimes wrong, but they're always less likely to be wrong than you are. Just buy a boring old index fund and guarantee yourself average returns. Anything else is gambling.
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Speaking to some people involved in this kind of thing a while ago, the common misconception people have is that gold is completely stable. It's actually susceptible to bubbles like everything else, and could eventually crash and greatly devalue when people realise it has no practical use and once gold items have risen to high in price to be practical.
Its just another form of currency. If the dollar and the pound reach a point where they are no longer worth anything, gold won't be either.
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On December 13 2010 04:05 Simplistik wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2010 03:55 Hatsu wrote:On December 13 2010 03:48 sikyon wrote:
I actually really hate the fact that gold is traded as a precious metal commodity since I'm trying to use it right now to synthesize some gold-coated nanoparticles and it's mad expensive. If it makes you feel better, other metals such as iridium skyrocketed even more, it's not just precious metals. Unlike gold, there's actually a reason for the iridium price increase! Over the last few years new applications for iridium have been coming around. Some of those applications (like touch screens and LEDs) are mass markets. Iridium is pretty scarce so the price goes up! Gold on the other hand...
Not true, plenty has been found in Canada, South America, and in Afghanistan.
Canada and SA is easy to mine, but Afghanistan...GL lol, point is, it's not that rare if Canadians are mining it at a massive amount.
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On December 13 2010 04:05 Simplistik wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2010 03:55 Hatsu wrote:On December 13 2010 03:48 sikyon wrote:
I actually really hate the fact that gold is traded as a precious metal commodity since I'm trying to use it right now to synthesize some gold-coated nanoparticles and it's mad expensive. If it makes you feel better, other metals such as iridium skyrocketed even more, it's not just precious metals. Unlike gold, there's actually a reason for the iridium price increase! Over the last few years new applications for iridium have been coming around. Some of those applications (like touch screens and LEDs) are mass markets. Iridium is pretty scarce so the price goes up! Gold on the other hand... gold supply increases at roughly 1% per year, and slowing down. compared to government issued moneys(~10% growth of money supply per year), it is extremely stable
On December 12 2010 14:00 reg wrote:One hundred year graph of dow: ![[image loading]](http://bailout.uslaw.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/100_year_dow_bull_bear_periods.jpg)
Dont worry, uncle Ben will make the graph of dow go up, WHAT EVER it takes. Remember, he promised to never repeat the mistakes of the "deflationary" great depression
![[image loading]](http://www.topgunfp.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/ben-bernanke-action-figure.jpg)
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On December 12 2010 12:49 mprs wrote:
I wonder what that graph looks like with inflation adjustments. Regardless, I don't see what the harm is until people can start synthesizing gold. Once that happens, you are kinda screwed.
I would invest in Iridium tbh :D
Its not really going up. Gold is just really balancing out inflation. Its meant to be a safe investment so you are not hurt by inflation. And with Ron Paul's current agenda the value of gold will probably continue to increase if it does become the US reserve currency. And the dollar should continue to plummet now that countries like China and Russia will no longer use it as their reserve currencies.
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On December 13 2010 04:05 Simplistik wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2010 03:55 Hatsu wrote:On December 13 2010 03:48 sikyon wrote:
I actually really hate the fact that gold is traded as a precious metal commodity since I'm trying to use it right now to synthesize some gold-coated nanoparticles and it's mad expensive. If it makes you feel better, other metals such as iridium skyrocketed even more, it's not just precious metals. Unlike gold, there's actually a reason for the iridium price increase! Over the last few years new applications for iridium have been coming around. Some of those applications (like touch screens and LEDs) are mass markets. Iridium is pretty scarce so the price goes up! Gold on the other hand...
There is a reason for the gold bull run - it is perceived as a safe haven, and in markets perception turns into reality. The economic situation is worrying, hence people seek to hedge, hence they buy gold. It does work nicely and it will do so in the future too (please note that I am not saying that it wont decrease in price, I am saying it will be a good hedge).
Iridium went up partly for the same reasons, but I am well aware of its intrinsic value too 
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It also can't hurt the gold market that Glenn Beck has been preaching gold buying to his flock lately, since he is sponsored by gold brokers. The man has to be some kind of evil pied piper.
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United States24779 Posts
If you invest in gold, silver or something else, how does that actually work. Like, if you invest 20,000 dollars in gold 'they' don't just mail you some bricks right? LOL
Are you just giving money to a company to store the materials in a super safe deposit box or something?
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On December 12 2010 14:00 reg wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2010 13:54 hypercube wrote:
Come on people look at that graph. That's how a bubble looks like. It might go on for a few more years, in which case investing will have been a good idea or it might burst literally in a few weeks. Actually, scratch that, there's no way this kind of growth will go on for 2 more years. And when the growth slows down all those people who bought hoping for a quick buck will decide to cash in. Guess what happens then?
Hint: You can actually find the answer to that question on the graph.
The only way this analysis could be wrong is if gold was a scarce industrial resource. But I doubt it is. Most of it is probably held by "investors" who will start panic selling the moment they see the price starting to go down. You're judging the longest held commodity in relation to a 30 year graph? Do you even know why gold prices feel in 1982? Even during the depression stocks gave a return on investment. Gold is no exception and it will continue to rise in some fashion. Whether or not there will be a stutter is another topic entirely. Its not a bubble. One hundred year graph of gold:
Ok, have you looked at the price? What does the prices flow with? The 1920's economic boom shows a massive increase in the prices of gold, which fall and stabilize in the 30's during the depression. The post-war boom for the US showed prices increasing again, until they stabilized during the 1970's (a period of economic upheaval). It showed another increase in recent history, which started when the USA was recovering, thanks to the Reagan economic policy.....
In the last few years, it showed a massive increase. TBH, this seems to be the first time in recent history where the price kept increasing, even when the state of the US economy was in trouble, where it normally stays stable. I have no idea why that is, but my guess is that it is a "bubble", and it'll burst in the future.....
take a look at this for some history on Gold. That is relatively outdated, since it's old. Notice that the price of gold in the 1990's needed to double, relative to the current strength of the USD, to be at the historical average.
It is now well above that point. Which means, while it still may go up, it is more likely to go back down in the future. It's a bubble waiting to burst.....
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On December 13 2010 04:50 micronesia wrote:
If you invest in gold, silver or something else, how does that actually work. Like, if you invest 20,000 dollars in gold 'they' don't just mail you some bricks right? LOL
Are you just giving money to a company to store the materials in a super safe deposit box or something?
You can buy physical if you have a place to store it, mainly coins.
You can buy gold which is stored in a secure location under your name (bullionvault/goldmoney).
You can buy a gold ETF, which basically is a share of a physical gold holding in some secure location.
Or you can buy shares in mining companies, mainly junior.
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5003 Posts
On December 12 2010 19:46 mindspike wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2010 15:00 Milkis wrote:On December 12 2010 12:47 tx.zyclon wrote:Over the times gold has been worth much to many. Sifting through the internet on the price of an ounce of gold it has gone up consistently every year for atleast 50 years. Going from 20 dollars about 30 years ago to 1450ish in 2010. Many economists say that with the falling of the USD that gold may be worth up to 50,000 in a short while. If you guys had an extra 20,000 or even a 1,000 saved. Do you think it is a wise idea to invest in gold? Even if it doesn't go to 50,000 dollars, Even people 30 years ago who maybe spent 1000 dollars for 50 ounces of gold, can now trade it in for 70,000 dollars. ![[image loading]](http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/2170/goldalldataousd.png) Curious to hear your thoughts. http://www.google.com/finance?client=ob&q=INDEXDJX:DJIcheck 1970 ~ present. there's no reason to prefer gold Oh ya...two can play that game. Try 2005-present (past 5 years which is relevant to us because a good majority of us had the means to invest even $100) 170% vs 5% in case you're too lazy.
way to miss the point lol
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lol @ people with 0 econ knowledge coming in here and speculating shit.
edit: just looking at an upward trending graph of the last 30 years doesn't mean anything. this is relative to the dollar which is in of itself a fluctuating variable. thinking "oh that graph looks nice so everything will turn out well" is being super ignorant.
honestly if you can take anything out of this it's that the dollar has weakened a LOT over the past few years.
edit2: hey we should invest in the yen! it has a similar looking graph! look at "all" in here.
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On December 13 2010 05:10 redtooth wrote:
lol @ people with 0 econ knowledge coming in here and speculating shit.
Gold is above the historical average, by a lot (when looked at through the value of the purchasing power of the current dollar). The historical average is still double what the average of gold was hovering at for a long period of time in relatively recent history. It really doesn't look like growth will be able to continue..... The similarities between this and the value of housing is pretty shocking..... Especially since both have consistently been pretty stable.....
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Anyone who says not to buy gold is a fool without the most basic grasp of economics
Yes buy gold
Cool edit: I have a ba in econ
User was warned for this post
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Anyone who says to buy gold is an idiot who probably can't get his pants on right in the morning
No dont buy gold
I have a PhD in economics
That was easy
User was warned for this post
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Anyone who says not to buy gold is an idiot who probably can't get her pants on correctly in the morning
Yeah, buy gold.
I have two PhD's in economics
That was easy
User was warned for this post
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I agree with the guy two posts above me.
No don't buy gold.
Gold has changed very little in value when adjusted for inflation, it is stupid to look at the dollars/ounce graphs and assume that buying gold is going to make you very rich. Were this the case, banks and large financial firms would be doing exactly that... yet they aren't. They instead use gold as a way to hedge against currency risk. Because unlike the fairly uninformed citizen, they know that gold is not an investment at all, and will not being making the bank enough money to be worth the economic opportunity costs. A bank knows that it can get way more profit over time from other methods than purchasing gold.
Now for everyone in the thread thinking that Gold is going to make them some money, maybe it will, it all depends on the current trend, if you got lucky enough to buy it at a price that is now below the inflation adjusted price you are selling it for, then good for you, you made some money, but really you don't have any knowledge whether or not this is going to happen.
A better way to be actually investing you money is to put money into companies that show promise, especially after you have done your research. Ultimately all those big banks and financial firms out there are going to do a better job than you, but atleast you can get some decent returns on your money per year, and you may even get lucky, and hit the next big thing.
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On December 12 2010 12:47 tx.zyclon wrote:
If you guys had an extra 20,000 or even a 1,000 saved. Do you think it is a wise idea to invest in gold? Even if it doesn't go to 50,000 dollars, Even people 30 years ago who maybe spent 1000 dollars for 50 ounces of gold, can now trade it in for 70,000 dollars.
Curious to hear your thoughts.
Gold may increase or decrease in price in the future. No one on this forum can tell you with certainty.
If you have 20.000 to invest, please do not put it all in gold. You may want to put some of it into gold, but most of it should go into more traditional cash flow generating investments like stocks, bonds, money market funds, CDs or even as a down payment for your apartment.
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wouldn't it be even more clever to invest in some big gold mine companies down in mexico for example, because those are the ones who will make the most profit out of a rising gold price
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EPT![[image loading]](http://img51.imageshack.us/i/goldalldataousd.png/)
