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Cheerleader Removed for Not Cheering her Rapist - Page 12

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MiyaviTeddy
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Canada697 Posts
October 29 2010 00:47 GMT
#221
So lemme guess
one of your students raped another student
let the mofo in
and not give the girl justice?
what kind of fucked up society do we live in?
Aiyeeeee
dogabutila
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States1437 Posts
October 29 2010 03:40 GMT
#222
On October 28 2010 19:22 dybydx wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 28 2010 19:14 dogabutila wrote:
On October 28 2010 18:47 Fenrax wrote:
That guy is a piece of trash. How can he have the audacity to not intervene into this and what the fuck is wrong with the students and teachers of that school that it is not HE but her who has to hide from social activities?
Even in an Islamic country women are treated with more respect.


You mean, not having freedom of religion nor freedom of speech?
Being only allowed to marrry another Moslem?
Not being allowed to go to school?

Yes. Sounds like they respect women more.

well....

1. its not like Muslims get to build a mosque in the USA without being called a terrorist training ground
2. its not like marriage bears any meaning in the USA anymore
3. its not like the USA tolerates any man or woman who has attended a madrassa


You really wanna get into this with me?
We were talking about womens rights.

Also:
1) Yea, but you can build them in america, just show some goddamn respect and don't built it right next to a place you bombed. You don't see america building a statue of liberty in hiroshima or nagasaki right?. Too bad you cant build churchs in islamic countries. Hell, you cant even BE christian in islamic countries.

2) Yes, It is better to kill a women who wants a divorce then to allow a divorce.

3) It's not like kidnapping american citizens for ransom isn't a popular pastime in some islamic areas.

Try again.



On October 29 2010 05:38 Fenrax wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 28 2010 19:14 dogabutila wrote:
On October 28 2010 18:47 Fenrax wrote:
That guy is a piece of trash. How can he have the audacity to not intervene into this and what the fuck is wrong with the students and teachers of that school that it is not HE but her who has to hide from social activities?
Even in an Islamic country women are treated with more respect.


You mean, not having freedom of religion nor freedom of speech?
Being only allowed to marrry another Moslem?
Not being allowed to go to school?

Yes. Sounds like they respect women more.


I chose the Muslim example because I know about those Scharia excesses in Muslimic countries. Wrong understood Religion. And though it is the choice between the devil and the deep blue sea I'd prefer those Muslimic restrictions over being raped and later on being ridiculed and bullied by the rapist and his cool basketball friends.


Ahh, So instead it is better for the family of a raped women to kill her for dishonoring the family.
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Krigwin
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
1130 Posts
October 29 2010 03:43 GMT
#223
On October 29 2010 12:40 dogabutila wrote:
2) Yes, It is better to kill a women who wants a divorce then to allow a divorce.


Wait, what?
dogabutila
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States1437 Posts
October 29 2010 03:54 GMT
#224
Are you familiar with the term honor killings?

It's not uncommon in islamic countries under shi'a law/perspectives to kill a woman who wants a divorce from her husband regardless of why. Even if it is because he is abusive.
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koreasilver
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
9109 Posts
October 29 2010 04:11 GMT
#225
Thanks for hijacking the thread to press forth Islamophobia instead of focusing on the absurdity of the actions of the school administration.
Traveler
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States451 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-29 04:28:55
October 29 2010 04:18 GMT
#226
On October 29 2010 12:40 dogabutila wrote:

You really wanna get into this with me?
We were talking about womens rights.

Also:
1) Yea, but you can build them in america, just show some goddamn respect and don't built it right next to a place you bombed. You don't see america building a statue of liberty in hiroshima or nagasaki right?. Too bad you cant build churchs in islamic countries. Hell, you cant even BE christian in islamic countries.


Uh Let me correct something you said there. You are saying that Islam bombed the Towers? You are saying that a religion, that is a peaceful religion, should not have the right to build a place of worship there because some extremists bombed the Towers?

We shouldn't allow anyone to build churches anywhere close to abortion clinics then because of the Christians who have bombed them...

Nagasaki is not a valid example, because it was the decision of the US Government to go through with the bombing. Not the work of an extremist sect that was supremely patriotic or something absolutely messed up like that.


Slightly more on topic, you can really see the differences in treatment of the genders here.

Sexism at its worst.
A girl is raped, the rapist is convicted, allowed to return to school, the same school of the girl, and then allowed to play in sporting events where she is a cheerleader... how messed up is that. Then to top it off, they tell her to stay away from him, and kick her off the team. This would not go over well in a more progressive state.
Can you ever argue in favor of something without first proving it?
dogabutila
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States1437 Posts
October 29 2010 04:43 GMT
#227
On October 29 2010 13:18 Traveler wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 29 2010 12:40 dogabutila wrote:

You really wanna get into this with me?
We were talking about womens rights.

Also:
1) Yea, but you can build them in america, just show some goddamn respect and don't built it right next to a place you bombed. You don't see america building a statue of liberty in hiroshima or nagasaki right?. Too bad you cant build churchs in islamic countries. Hell, you cant even BE christian in islamic countries.


Uh Let me correct something you said there. You are saying that Islam bombed the Towers? You are saying that a religion, that is a peaceful religion, should not have the right to build a place of worship there because some extremists bombed the Towers?

We shouldn't allow anyone to build churches anywhere close to abortion clinics then because of the Christians who have bombed them...

Nagasaki is not a valid example, because it was the decision of the US Government to go through with the bombing. Not the work of an extremist sect that was supremely patriotic or something absolutely messed up like that.


Slightly more on topic, you can really see the differences in treatment of the genders here.

Sexism at its worst.
A girl is raped, the rapist is convicted, allowed to return to school, the same school of the girl, and then allowed to play in sporting events where she is a cheerleader... how messed up is that. Then to top it off, they tell her to stay away from him, and kick her off the team. This would not go over well in a more progressive state.



A "peaceful" religion that was initially spread via the sword? Forgive me, but islam can not be considered a true religion until followers of it can choose to repudiate it without repercussions. "Believe or die" is a pretty good religion huh?

Hardly extremists. Just because the government refers to them as such doesnt make it so. "extremists" run several countries. Seems more mainstream then a fringe belief to me.


Damn straight we shouldn't allow churches to be built across the street from abortion clinics. Cemeteries either. Fuck Westboro baptist.


Nagasaki is a completely valid example. You don't bomb some place and then build a symbol of your victory there. It doesn't matter if it is a religion, or a government, or a random independent third party that does it. Building marker at or near the site of an attack by one of your group is bad taste. Yes the people trying to build a mosque there are not the same as the bombers, and are of a different faction / sect / denomination, but that doesn't make it any more classy or okay or any less worse in taste to do so.

If you must fight, then fight. Fight hard, do what it takes and win. But rubbing it into the losers faces afterwards is not a good way to get everybody to play nice afterwards. It only builds resentment and causes another fight down the line. See WW2.



Try to actually understand the article and what happened before you comment on it.
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Tenshik
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
124 Posts
October 29 2010 04:54 GMT
#228
+ Show Spoiler +
On October 29 2010 13:43 dogabutila wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 29 2010 13:18 Traveler wrote:
On October 29 2010 12:40 dogabutila wrote:

You really wanna get into this with me?
We were talking about womens rights.

Also:
1) Yea, but you can build them in america, just show some goddamn respect and don't built it right next to a place you bombed. You don't see america building a statue of liberty in hiroshima or nagasaki right?. Too bad you cant build churchs in islamic countries. Hell, you cant even BE christian in islamic countries.


Uh Let me correct something you said there. You are saying that Islam bombed the Towers? You are saying that a religion, that is a peaceful religion, should not have the right to build a place of worship there because some extremists bombed the Towers?

We shouldn't allow anyone to build churches anywhere close to abortion clinics then because of the Christians who have bombed them...

Nagasaki is not a valid example, because it was the decision of the US Government to go through with the bombing. Not the work of an extremist sect that was supremely patriotic or something absolutely messed up like that.


Slightly more on topic, you can really see the differences in treatment of the genders here.

Sexism at its worst.
A girl is raped, the rapist is convicted, allowed to return to school, the same school of the girl, and then allowed to play in sporting events where she is a cheerleader... how messed up is that. Then to top it off, they tell her to stay away from him, and kick her off the team. This would not go over well in a more progressive state.



A "peaceful" religion that was initially spread via the sword? Forgive me, but islam can not be considered a true religion until followers of it can choose to repudiate it without repercussions. "Believe or die" is a pretty good religion huh?

Hardly extremists. Just because the government refers to them as such doesnt make it so. "extremists" run several countries. Seems more mainstream then a fringe belief to me.


Damn straight we shouldn't allow churches to be built across the street from abortion clinics. Cemeteries either. Fuck Westboro baptist.


Nagasaki is a completely valid example. You don't bomb some place and then build a symbol of your victory there. It doesn't matter if it is a religion, or a government, or a random independent third party that does it. Building marker at or near the site of an attack by one of your group is bad taste. Yes the people trying to build a mosque there are not the same as the bombers, and are of a different faction / sect / denomination, but that doesn't make it any more classy or okay or any less worse in taste to do so.

If you must fight, then fight. Fight hard, do what it takes and win. But rubbing it into the losers faces afterwards is not a good way to get everybody to play nice afterwards. It only builds resentment and causes another fight down the line. See WW2.



Try to actually understand the article and what happened before you comment on it.


See all religion does is foster hate... Chill out with some of my cannabis maaaannnnnnn and relax......
P.S. I don't smoke, but damn, you guys need to. Hey islamic people, stop hating on America because we give rights out to everyone, including criminals. And hey Pro-america guy, stop hating on people who are suffering ALOT just because a bunch of assholes "say" they share the same religion. Let's all love each other in one big orgy ball like South Park guys, mkay?
Traveler
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States451 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-29 05:14:58
October 29 2010 04:56 GMT
#229
On October 29 2010 13:43 dogabutila wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 29 2010 13:18 Traveler wrote:
On October 29 2010 12:40 dogabutila wrote:

You really wanna get into this with me?
We were talking about womens rights.

Also:
1) Yea, but you can build them in america, just show some goddamn respect and don't built it right next to a place you bombed. You don't see america building a statue of liberty in hiroshima or nagasaki right?. Too bad you cant build churchs in islamic countries. Hell, you cant even BE christian in islamic countries.


Uh Let me correct something you said there. You are saying that Islam bombed the Towers? You are saying that a religion, that is a peaceful religion, should not have the right to build a place of worship there because some extremists bombed the Towers?

We shouldn't allow anyone to build churches anywhere close to abortion clinics then because of the Christians who have bombed them...

Nagasaki is not a valid example, because it was the decision of the US Government to go through with the bombing. Not the work of an extremist sect that was supremely patriotic or something absolutely messed up like that.


Slightly more on topic, you can really see the differences in treatment of the genders here.

Sexism at its worst.
A girl is raped, the rapist is convicted, allowed to return to school, the same school of the girl, and then allowed to play in sporting events where she is a cheerleader... how messed up is that. Then to top it off, they tell her to stay away from him, and kick her off the team. This would not go over well in a more progressive state.



A "peaceful" religion that was initially spread via the sword? Forgive me, but islam can not be considered a true religion until followers of it can choose to repudiate it without repercussions. "Believe or die" is a pretty good religion huh?

Hardly extremists. Just because the government refers to them as such doesnt make it so. "extremists" run several countries. Seems more mainstream then a fringe belief to me.


Damn straight we shouldn't allow churches to be built across the street from abortion clinics. Cemeteries either. Fuck Westboro baptist.


Nagasaki is a completely valid example. You don't bomb some place and then build a symbol of your victory there. It doesn't matter if it is a religion, or a government, or a random independent third party that does it. Building marker at or near the site of an attack by one of your group is bad taste. Yes the people trying to build a mosque there are not the same as the bombers, and are of a different faction / sect / denomination, but that doesn't make it any more classy or okay or any less worse in taste to do so.

If you must fight, then fight. Fight hard, do what it takes and win. But rubbing it into the losers faces afterwards is not a good way to get everybody to play nice afterwards. It only builds resentment and causes another fight down the line. See WW2.



Try to actually understand the article and what happened before you comment on it.


Understand the article and what happened? Enlighten me.

Also, by your line of reasoning, we are all split off sects of judaism, thus none of us should build anywhere close to the site of those towers...
Hell, whites shouldn't be allowed to build anything "white" in the south.
Anyhow, you must not know that there is already a mosque even closer to the site, but of course you carefully researched this all correct?

Actually we should allow churches to be built near abortion clinics. Places of worship are one thing. Allowing people to bomb stuff, completely unrelated.

Evidently you don't realize the majority of Muslims (especially in the US) condemn the violence of the EXTREMISTS, (you have carefully researched what this means too correct?) and never think about committing violence. Also you must have read the Koran and all the examples of violence that it advocates right? Oh wait, those are few and far between (less than the old testament) and a huge part of the message of Islam is peaceful.

Unfortunately Islam is considered a 1 way religion, though interestingly the Koran is mainly a book of peace.
Can you ever argue in favor of something without first proving it?
dogabutila
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States1437 Posts
October 29 2010 06:05 GMT
#230
Sure; the girl didn't get raped and the guy isn't a rapist.

Prosecutors wanted to charge him for that but the grand jury threw it out because the case was laughable. This means there is not even enough merit for the case to be brought to a real court. Which means that the prosecution really had no evidence other then the guy left his clothes there and the girl said so. Both of which could easily be explained by other things. Such as, since this was such a racially tinged case and she is a racist she just wanted to ruin the guy's life. That's probably not true, but saying that he raped her is nowhere near true either. More then likely what actually happened was that she is not a racist and it started out consensually but she decided she didnt want one or both of them and withdrew consent (before any actual penetration happened). Guys wtf because they were totally about to get some, continue kissing her // feeling her up. She yells, people outside wtf, guys panic and know how bad it looks and run.

So he gets to go back to school since it is quite obvious that he did not rape her. In america we get to be innocent before proven guilty and are not guilty of rape merely because a girl says so, or even because an OP disingenuously states that it is so (and the title should be changed too actually -- he isn't a rapist).

Since he isn't a felon or a criminal he gets to play his sports again. Since she is a cheerleader she is supposed to cheer for the teams. Obviously, she harbors some resentment [for the likely sexual assault (which is what kissing // groping without consent is...) that took place] and declines to cheer for him. Since she isn't doing what she is supposed to be doing as a member of the team she gets removed from it.

After his occurs, the prosecutors say, waitaminute, he threatened to shoot // kill some people in the house for his clothes! we can totally get him on that. So they charge him with assault. The kid, knowing that he actually did it, and that there are plenty of people who saw and heard him do it pleas guilty. For assault. Not for anything sexual in nature. It's important to note that while it is likely he committed sexual assault (but not rape) IN FACT, it is also true that it is also possible he did not commit sexual assault and was never in fact tried for it nor convicted of it or rape (as your first post implies).

Simple enough to understand just by reading through the article.

I don't know who "we" are. If toyota want's to build a headquarters in new york near there then fine.There are plenty of people with no relation to judiasm, christianity, or islam. So no, I don't think that everybody should be banned from building near there. Of course. But we very well can't tear it down now can we? Especially if we arn't going to let them build near there. It's stupid to make people drive outside the city to go do what they need to do. But they were fine without one there for a decade and they will be fine without having it there in the future.

Lets say a westboro baptist member bombs an abortion clinic. Blows the entire thing up. Maybe he is really good at chemistry. Given that westboro baptist is mainly an extended family as the congregation, it would be idiotic to let a second cousin of the bomber then rent that lot of land with the intent of building a church there. See, places of worship and blowing things up is only completely unrelated when the explosions don't happen because of religion. If a christian blows up an abortion clinic because the bible says abortions are evil, then it is obviously related. If a muslim blows up an airplane and a tower because he thinks it is his religious duty to do so, then it is obviously related.

Evidently you don't realize that the majority of muslims outside of the US were happy that 9/11 happened. News reporters (some american ones, but a bunch of other western nations as well) reported massive celebrations in countries from jordan to syria to saudi arabia to iran to iraq to territories in palestine. Video got out showing it from palastine and iran. The other countries were smart enough to stop video from getting out, but plenty of third party reporters saw the excitement.

judism is definitely not peaceful either. They killed people all the time. Sometimes for the stupidest reasons. christianity started out peaceful, but now look. christians are some of the most violent people around. It'd be cool if they were all like jesus cause he was a pretty chill dude. But unfortunately they seem to hate people just cause they don't believe the same things.

At it's root, starting, is judism a peaceful religion? No. Not really.
At it's root, is islam more peaceful then judism? Yes. Completely? No. They fought wars to establish a basis for their religion.
Is christianity? Yes. They were the only ones to advocate non-violence.

Did they all stay this way? no. Judism is more mellow now, but jews are very violent against arabs. moslems are more peaceful now then when they started out, but still are rather violent at times for no reason...see 1948. Then you have the christians who started out all peaceful like fighting wars in the middle east because they want control of jerusalem. And then when they split the catholics and protestants fight wars against each other, and you get the whole IRA stuff, as well as things like spain expelling all non-christians.....



On October 29 2010 13:11 koreasilver wrote:
Thanks for hijacking the thread to press forth Islamophobia instead of focusing on the absurdity of the actions of the school administration.



What absurdity?
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Traveler
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States451 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-29 07:13:00
October 29 2010 07:11 GMT
#231
On October 29 2010 15:05 dogabutila wrote:
Sure; the girl didn't get raped and the guy isn't a rapist.

Prosecutors wanted to charge him for that but the grand jury threw it out because the case was laughable. This means there is not even enough merit for the case to be brought to a real court. Which means that the prosecution really had no evidence other then the guy left his clothes there and the girl said so. Both of which could easily be explained by other things. Such as, since this was such a racially tinged case and she is a racist she just wanted to ruin the guy's life. That's probably not true, but saying that he raped her is nowhere near true either. More then likely what actually happened was that she is not a racist and it started out consensually but she decided she didnt want one or both of them and withdrew consent (before any actual penetration happened). Guys wtf because they were totally about to get some, continue kissing her // feeling her up. She yells, people outside wtf, guys panic and know how bad it looks and run.


I don't know who "we" are. If toyota want's to build a headquarters in new york near there then fine.There are plenty of people with no relation to judiasm, christianity, or islam. So no, I don't think that everybody should be banned from building near there. Of course. But we very well can't tear it down now can we? Especially if we arn't going to let them build near there. It's stupid to make people drive outside the city to go do what they need to do. But they were fine without one there for a decade and they will be fine without having it there in the future.

Lets say a westboro baptist member bombs an abortion clinic. Blows the entire thing up. Maybe he is really good at chemistry. Given that westboro baptist is mainly an extended family as the congregation, it would be idiotic to let a second cousin of the bomber then rent that lot of land with the intent of building a church there. See, places of worship and blowing things up is only completely unrelated when the explosions don't happen because of religion. If a christian blows up an abortion clinic because the bible says abortions are evil, then it is obviously related. If a muslim blows up an airplane and a tower because he thinks it is his religious duty to do so, then it is obviously related.

Evidently you don't realize that the majority of muslims outside of the US were happy that 9/11 happened. News reporters (some american ones, but a bunch of other western nations as well) reported massive celebrations in countries from jordan to syria to saudi arabia to iran to iraq to territories in palestine. Video got out showing it from palastine and iran. The other countries were smart enough to stop video from getting out, but plenty of third party reporters saw the excitement.



First off, I'll amend mine to say sexual assault instead of rape, which he likely got out of by pleading guilty to the much lesser charge of assault (something very common in court cases), not to mention the difficulty of ever prosecuting rape/sexual assault cases (not only because of the word against word but also because of the perception of women misreporting sexual acts because of "embarrassment").

Second, Nothing could possibly could change in a decade could it? Anyhow, considering there is lawful protection for the building of the mosque there, the scapegoating islamophobia won't result in much except giving Fox News to make more profit spreading conservative opinion and capitalizing on fear mongering by its commentators. Then again you made the mistake of grouping all muslims in with the EXTREMISTS (I'll put that in caps again for you) who perpetuate acts of terrorism and antiwest sentiment.

Third, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reactions_to_the_September_11_attacks
Those sure were massive celebrations huh?
The viral spreading of a few celebrations shouldn't be mistaken for massive celebration in many locations.
Can you ever argue in favor of something without first proving it?
dogabutila
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States1437 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-10-29 09:36:48
October 29 2010 09:30 GMT
#232
Although the article is not clear, i think it highly unlikely that the prosecutor would bring the same charges 2 years later without any additional evidence. Given that everything that can be firmly known to happen was already known before, any new evidence gathered would have been not very firm. Circumstantial at best. Plus having to fight double jeopardy claims.... Alas, without better sources which i am too lazy to look for, we can't really know what happened in the room or exactly what happened in the legal arena other then the fact that he plead to misdemeanor assault.

I suppose then, that we are at an impasse, although I still hold that the school's actions were entirely correct given the information they had at the times they did. The timeline with information really does support their actions as reasonable.


Sure things change in a decade. There are plenty of other places to build though, that are not terribly uncouth. Do they really think building there would gain them anything? That a religion of peace would intentionally build at the site knowing it would provoke outrage and hatred? Knowing that the intentional lack of manners and grace would stir up trouble?

Lastly, you assume that the people celebrating are extremeists when all indications point otherwise. Of course moslems in america are going to denounce the attack, if anybody lauded it they would have been lynched. Of course the heads of state are going to denounce the attacks, they don't want the retribution to fall on them. Iraq was the only state not to denounce but to support the attackers and look what they got.

But look at what the actual general population in the middle east did, and you will know that they were excited. It only takes a little bit of research, a little bit of asking people who were there.

+ Show Spoiler +
From the Wall Street Journal - Europe

How Lebanon Reacted to the News

By Elisabetta Burba, an Italian journalist.


Where were you on Sept. 11, when terrorists changed the world? I was in Beirut, at the National Museum, enjoying the wonders of the ancient Phoenicians with my husband. This tour of past splendor only magnified the shock I received later when I heard the news, and saw the reactions all around me. Walking downtown, I realized that the offspring of this great civilization were celebrating a terrorist outrage. And I am not
talking about destitute people. Those who were cheering belonged to the elite of the Paris of the Middle East: professionals wearing double-breasted suits, charming blonde ladies, pretty teenagers in tailored jeans.


Trying to find our bearings, we went into an American-style cafe in the Hamra district, near Rue Verdun, rated as one of the most expensive shopping streets in the world. Here the cognitive dissonance was immediate, and direct: the cafe's sophisticated clientele was celebrating, laughing, cheering and making jokes, as waiters served
hamburgers and Diet Pepsi. Nobody looked shocked, or moved. They were excited, very excited.


An hour later, at a little market near the American Embassy, on the outskirts of Beirut, a thrilled shop assistant showed us, using his hands, how the plane had crashed into the twin towers. He, too, was laughing.

'What They Deserved'


Once back at the house where we were staying, we started scanning the international channels. Soon came reports of Palestinians celebrating. The BBC reporter in Jerusalem said it was only a tiny minority. Astonished, we asked some moderate Arabs if that was the case. "Nonsense," said one, speaking for many. "Ninety percent of the Arab world believes that Americans got what they deserved."


An exaggeration? Rather an understatement. A couple of days later, we headed north to Tripoli, near the Syrian border. On the way, we read that Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat, who donated blood in front of the cameras, was rejecting any suggestion that his people were rejoicing over the terrorist attack. "It was less than 10 children in Jerusalem," he said.



In the bustling souq of Tripoli, we started looking for the Great Mosque, a 1294 building with a distinctive Lombard-style tower. But in that labyrinth, nobody spoke anything but Arabic, which we don't speak. Finally, in a dark shop, we found an old gentleman who knew French. His round white cap showed that he was a devout Muslim. Leaning on his stick, he managed to get on the street and with most exquisite manners gave us directions. Common decency survives all.


Once at the Mosque I donned a black chador, but our Lonely Planet guide attracted the attention of a hard-looking bearded guy all the same. "Are you Americans?" he asked in a menacing tone. Our quick denial made him relax. He gave us the green light to go in. But very soon afterward we were again approached by a fat young man. He turned out to be one of the some 350,000 Palestinians who live in Lebanon, unwelcome by most of the population and subject to severe hardships. Hearing we were Italians, first he recited like a prayer names of Italian soccer players. We were relieved at first that he wanted to talk about sports, but he soon moved on to politics and the "events."


"My people have been crushed under the heel of American imperialism, which took away our land, massacred our beloved and denied our right to life. But have you seen what happened in New York City? God Almighty has drawn his sword against our enemies. God is great -- Allah u Akbar," he said.


I heard these appeals to religion so often that I needed some theological help. "How can God do evil?" I later asked an Arab friend, a businessman with an international background. "According to what I learnt in my catechism, God lets evil happen. He doesn't do it," I said, and he answered: "The Quran has the same teaching, but blood calls for blood." What about compassion? I asked, pointing out that Jesus Christ had offered the other cheek. Isn't Allah also always called the Merciful? "He is, but when a people has been begging for a piece of land for 52 years and it has experienced only bloodshed, what can you expect?" But the victims of the World Trade Center were civilians, I insisted. "In the new intifada, 500 Palestinians have been killed. America didn't give a damn, so why should Muslims care now about those who died in the twin towers? It's hard, but that's the way they see it."


I couldn't help it: I kept remembering how a day earlier, in Germany, Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder had talked about a clash of civilizations.


On Thursday night, in the Christian northern part of Beirut we heard some loud noises. "Probably they are celebrating the attacks," some one told us when we asked. You mean the Maronite Christians are also
celebrating? I asked. "Yes, they also feel betrayed by the Americans," came the response. On Friday, the national day of remembrance for the victims in Europe and the U.S., I was relieved to see that the Christian church in the Sahet Aukar district was packed with people holding a candlelight vigil. Less comforting was the thick barrier of soldiers and check points that protected the church.


'Terrorists?'


Heliopolis, in the Bekaa Valley, was the Sun City of the ancients. Nowadays it is called Baalbek. Near its lavish temples stands the stronghold of the Hezbollah, the Iranian-backed Shiite Party of God. Along the clean alleys that lead to the Hezbolla's stronghold there are hand-made posters of bearded young men. "They are martyrs," explained a well-dressed, cultivated Arab man who had just gotten out of his Mercedes. "They fought until victory: the withdrawal of Israeli occupants. So they became a model for the all Arab world." Weren't they terrorists? We asked. "Terrorists? What about the Israelis who kill women and babies?"


In the seven days we spent in Lebanon, we saw one young Arab woman with teary eyes. "The stories of the victims touched me,", she said, and I began to regain my trust in humanity. Then she added: "But in a way I am also glad, because for once the Americans are experiencing what we in the Middle East go through every single day."


Back in Italy, I received a phone call from my friend Gilberto Bazoli, a journalist in Cremona. He told me he witnessed the same reactions among Muslims in the local mosque of that small Lombard city. "They were all on Osama bin Laden side," he said. "One of them told me that they were not even worthy to kiss his toes."


Do you know any non-muslim's, non-americans who were there at the time? I know a few, they all assured me these things happened. The dearth of reporting on it? I suppose you have already forgotten the assassination contract out on the head of a cartoonist who had the audacity to draw mohammed (maybe the bounty was placed by an ''extremeist'' but general sentiment and outcry was heard around the muslim world everywhere, and it was an anger. A hateful, violent anger that provoked beatings and killings of westerns completely unrelated to the newspaper or cartoonist, by your very own ''moderate'' or ''mainstream'' muslims. You don't see christians or jews up in arms and killing people when somebody draws jesus or moses or abraham.). Not to mention forgetting the foreign cabinet official equivalents publicly threatening journalists who cover the celebrations, or the fact that our ambassadors being told that the world hates america not 48 hours after 9/11.


Mind you, a thousand years ago the arab world was the pinnacle of civilization. They had the largest armies, were the worlds leading experts in health, science, and culture. Through invasions, fractures, and gross mismanagement (look what happens when a country is managed by law based on religion..) the Muslim world is destitute. The arab world combined has a lower GDP then spain, and accounts for half of the worlds people below the poverty line while only making up a fifth of the worlds population. Even in saudi arabia, one of the more western countries, the universities graduate more ''religious scholars'' then engineers or doctors. They are their own cause of failure and humiliation and repression yet they blame us.

Us? Why?
We spent billions of dollars rebuilding the middle east post ww2.
We ejected iraq from kuwait. Iraq who killed or displaced 10% of the population.
We rescued muslims in kosovo when the serbs were killing muslims in masses.
We interceded in bosnia when chrisitans were running around murdering muslims in the streets.

Why?
Because we are successful.
And because we do not condemn isreal to slaughter.

All because the actions they themselves have taken against isreal failed. They find their brothers homeless



If you really think anti-american sentiment is the territory of extremists then you are mistaken.
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Risen
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States7927 Posts
October 29 2010 09:32 GMT
#233
I always know immediately who has or hasn't read the Quran by whether they refer to Islam as a religion of peace or not.

On-topic. I agree that the focus should be on the fact that this kid was allowed back anywhere other than an opp school.
Pufftrees Everyday>its like a rifter that just used X-Factor/Liquid'Nony: I hope no one lip read XD/Holyflare>it's like policy lynching but better/Resident Los Angeles bachelor
Heyoka
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Katowice25012 Posts
October 29 2010 09:48 GMT
#234
Shocking, a news thread about rape turning into a horrible mess of people mashing their keyboards under the pretense of discussion.
@RealHeyoka | ESL / DreamHack StarCraft Lead
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