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Try incorporating ghosts and hellions into your bio. I have been experimenting with reactor hellion FE into ghost + hellion + mmm + a few tanks for heavy roach/hydra (you already have a techlabbed factory). So far, very effective unless you do the FE blindly into 1 base roach all-in or something. Ghosts come out in time to fend off fast mutas, and the core army is very strong as long as you are judicious about EMPing infestors. Also, the zerg has to take an early third b/c he can't compete with 2 base Terran otherwise, and you have plenty of tools to harass him meanwhile.
Also, this army comp gives you literally everything you need to make droning a living hell for the Zerg. You got mara drops, hellion drops, nukes, nuke drops, siege cliff drops, hellion drone toastin', hellions to scout for the inevitable 3rd, and so on. Ghosts allow you to 3x nuke to instantly kill queens / expos; also (stealing this from the nuke rush thread from beta), a drop of 3 stimmed maras + 1 ghost can kill a lair in 20 seconds with nuke. You can also mix in a few vikings from your starport to hunt ovies, get scouting info and deter broodlords (although you don't want very many in this matchup as they get rocked by mutas).
And yeah, mech is no longer viable vs mass muta. You HAVE to make marines; I like ghosts b/c it allows me to make less so I'm not as vulnerable to banelings. This means that blindly massing tanks is a thing of the past pretty much.
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On August 29 2010 01:29 Shaithis wrote:
Try incorporating ghosts and hellions into your bio. I have been experimenting with reactor hellion FE into ghost + hellion + mmm + a few tanks for heavy roach/hydra (you already have a techlabbed factory). So far, very effective unless you do the FE blindly into 1 base roach all-in or something. Ghosts come out in time to fend off fast mutas, and the core army is very strong as long as you are judicious about EMPing infestors. Also, the zerg has to take an early third b/c he can't compete with 2 base Terran otherwise, and you have plenty of tools to harass him meanwhile.
Also, this army comp gives you literally everything you need to make droning a living hell for the Zerg. You got mara drops, hellion drops, nukes, nuke drops, siege cliff drops, hellion drone toastin', hellions to scout for the inevitable 3rd, and so on. Ghosts allow you to 3x nuke to instantly kill queens / expos; also (stealing this from the nuke rush thread from beta), a drop of 3 stimmed maras + 1 ghost can kill a lair in 20 seconds with nuke. You can also mix in a few vikings from your starport to hunt ovies, get scouting info and deter broodlords (although you don't want very many in this matchup as they get rocked by mutas).
And yeah, mech is no longer viable vs mass muta. You HAVE to make marines; I like ghosts b/c it allows me to make less so I'm not as vulnerable to banelings. This means that blindly massing tanks is a thing of the past pretty much.
Hmm, thats kind of interesting, like a Hellion Marauder Ghost comp? it require a ton of control, but it would effectively counter mutalingbling if you could get a decent ghost count and position them so they arent raped by banelings. Seems like alot of micro would be require tho to keep your hellions moving, your ghosts out of baneling reach and ghosts sniping the mutas.
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you should use less marine and put some viking for extra dps on the muta, I know viking is not the hard counter to muta but they do a pretty good work with some marine and thors who dont let muta reach the viking
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On August 29 2010 01:45 StoLiVe wrote:
you should use less marine and put some viking for extra dps on the muta, I know viking is not the hard counter to muta but they do a pretty good work with some marine and thors who dont let muta reach the viking
No, they really don't. Also, it's so easy for the zerg to just switch to hydras or huge amounts of speedlings. The 300 gas you just spent on 4 vikings that die in 2 seconds to a muta flock could have gone towards 2 ghosts which kill 5 mutas instantly at full energy and are equally effective vs zerg ground.
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On August 29 2010 01:42 Darpa wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2010 01:29 Shaithis wrote:
Try incorporating ghosts and hellions into your bio. I have been experimenting with reactor hellion FE into ghost + hellion + mmm + a few tanks for heavy roach/hydra (you already have a techlabbed factory). So far, very effective unless you do the FE blindly into 1 base roach all-in or something. Ghosts come out in time to fend off fast mutas, and the core army is very strong as long as you are judicious about EMPing infestors. Also, the zerg has to take an early third b/c he can't compete with 2 base Terran otherwise, and you have plenty of tools to harass him meanwhile.
Also, this army comp gives you literally everything you need to make droning a living hell for the Zerg. You got mara drops, hellion drops, nukes, nuke drops, siege cliff drops, hellion drone toastin', hellions to scout for the inevitable 3rd, and so on. Ghosts allow you to 3x nuke to instantly kill queens / expos; also (stealing this from the nuke rush thread from beta), a drop of 3 stimmed maras + 1 ghost can kill a lair in 20 seconds with nuke. You can also mix in a few vikings from your starport to hunt ovies, get scouting info and deter broodlords (although you don't want very many in this matchup as they get rocked by mutas).
And yeah, mech is no longer viable vs mass muta. You HAVE to make marines; I like ghosts b/c it allows me to make less so I'm not as vulnerable to banelings. This means that blindly massing tanks is a thing of the past pretty much. Hmm, thats kind of interesting, like a Hellion Marauder Ghost comp? it require a ton of control, but it would effectively counter mutalingbling if you could get a decent ghost count and position them so they arent raped by banelings. Seems like alot of micro would be require tho to keep your hellions moving, your ghosts out of baneling reach and ghosts sniping the mutas.
Ghosts aren't light so it actually takes 5 banelings to kill one. Of course, it also takes 5 banelings to kill 10 if you have them clustered (which they tend to do). I tend to run my entire army back when I see banes, then individually micro rauders into the bling ball. A few sieged tanks also work nice, so does ghost snipe if your micro is gosu (mine isnt  ).
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On August 29 2010 02:00 Shaithis wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2010 01:42 Darpa wrote:On August 29 2010 01:29 Shaithis wrote:
Try incorporating ghosts and hellions into your bio. I have been experimenting with reactor hellion FE into ghost + hellion + mmm + a few tanks for heavy roach/hydra (you already have a techlabbed factory). So far, very effective unless you do the FE blindly into 1 base roach all-in or something. Ghosts come out in time to fend off fast mutas, and the core army is very strong as long as you are judicious about EMPing infestors. Also, the zerg has to take an early third b/c he can't compete with 2 base Terran otherwise, and you have plenty of tools to harass him meanwhile.
Also, this army comp gives you literally everything you need to make droning a living hell for the Zerg. You got mara drops, hellion drops, nukes, nuke drops, siege cliff drops, hellion drone toastin', hellions to scout for the inevitable 3rd, and so on. Ghosts allow you to 3x nuke to instantly kill queens / expos; also (stealing this from the nuke rush thread from beta), a drop of 3 stimmed maras + 1 ghost can kill a lair in 20 seconds with nuke. You can also mix in a few vikings from your starport to hunt ovies, get scouting info and deter broodlords (although you don't want very many in this matchup as they get rocked by mutas).
And yeah, mech is no longer viable vs mass muta. You HAVE to make marines; I like ghosts b/c it allows me to make less so I'm not as vulnerable to banelings. This means that blindly massing tanks is a thing of the past pretty much. Hmm, thats kind of interesting, like a Hellion Marauder Ghost comp? it require a ton of control, but it would effectively counter mutalingbling if you could get a decent ghost count and position them so they arent raped by banelings. Seems like alot of micro would be require tho to keep your hellions moving, your ghosts out of baneling reach and ghosts sniping the mutas. Ghosts aren't light so it actually takes 5 banelings to kill one. Of course, it also takes 5 banelings to kill 10 if you have them clustered (which they tend to do). I tend to run my entire army back when I see banes, then individually micro rauders into the bling ball. A few sieged tanks also work nice, so does ghost snipe if your micro is gosu (mine isnt ).
I think if you added tanks into that mix it might be too gas heavy, so you would need a quick expansion to manage an army like that. That said, im fine with sniping a few banelings, but im more worried when the zerg has 30 lings, 30 banelings and 10-15 mutas, its impossible to snipe banelings when there is that many of them before they hit your units. But thanks for the info, I am definitly going to give this a shot.
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On August 29 2010 02:04 Darpa wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2010 02:00 Shaithis wrote:On August 29 2010 01:42 Darpa wrote:On August 29 2010 01:29 Shaithis wrote:
Try incorporating ghosts and hellions into your bio. I have been experimenting with reactor hellion FE into ghost + hellion + mmm + a few tanks for heavy roach/hydra (you already have a techlabbed factory). So far, very effective unless you do the FE blindly into 1 base roach all-in or something. Ghosts come out in time to fend off fast mutas, and the core army is very strong as long as you are judicious about EMPing infestors. Also, the zerg has to take an early third b/c he can't compete with 2 base Terran otherwise, and you have plenty of tools to harass him meanwhile.
Also, this army comp gives you literally everything you need to make droning a living hell for the Zerg. You got mara drops, hellion drops, nukes, nuke drops, siege cliff drops, hellion drone toastin', hellions to scout for the inevitable 3rd, and so on. Ghosts allow you to 3x nuke to instantly kill queens / expos; also (stealing this from the nuke rush thread from beta), a drop of 3 stimmed maras + 1 ghost can kill a lair in 20 seconds with nuke. You can also mix in a few vikings from your starport to hunt ovies, get scouting info and deter broodlords (although you don't want very many in this matchup as they get rocked by mutas).
And yeah, mech is no longer viable vs mass muta. You HAVE to make marines; I like ghosts b/c it allows me to make less so I'm not as vulnerable to banelings. This means that blindly massing tanks is a thing of the past pretty much. Hmm, thats kind of interesting, like a Hellion Marauder Ghost comp? it require a ton of control, but it would effectively counter mutalingbling if you could get a decent ghost count and position them so they arent raped by banelings. Seems like alot of micro would be require tho to keep your hellions moving, your ghosts out of baneling reach and ghosts sniping the mutas. Ghosts aren't light so it actually takes 5 banelings to kill one. Of course, it also takes 5 banelings to kill 10 if you have them clustered (which they tend to do). I tend to run my entire army back when I see banes, then individually micro rauders into the bling ball. A few sieged tanks also work nice, so does ghost snipe if your micro is gosu (mine isnt ). I think if you added tanks into that mix it might be too gas heavy, so you would need a quick expansion to manage an army like that. That said, im fine with sniping a few banelings, but im more worried when the zerg has 30 lings, 30 banelings and 10-15 mutas, its impossible to snipe banelings when there is that many of them before they hit your units. But thanks for the info, I am definitly going to give this a shot.
Yes, like I said I open with reactor hellion FE so I can get my 3rd and 4th gas pretty early on. Tanks are definitely not a priority, but it's usually not a problem to squeeze a few in later once you have a solid amount of hellions and pre-igniter done. On maps like LT and Kulas, I get tanks even earlier; a good cliff drop over his nat can basically net you a free win.
And yeah, rauders are really your main line of defense vs blings. Vs that army comp, you definitely want to be sniping the mutas before they kill too many units that can attack them. You also want to avoid having hellions tank blings as they are light and will all go poof very very quickly, then your rauders get eaten alive by speedlings. Also, I would prioritize infantry and vehicle armor as it significantly improves your units' ability to tank speedlings, which are really the greatest threat to any infantry ball.
Also don't forget that hydras are light, a nice flank by your hellions can destroy a large ball / concave of hydras in moments, also it takes 2 snipes to kill one from full-health. You probably won't see too many hydras anyway unless you do something silly like overcommiting to air.
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Personally I've had a lot of success with lots of marines just make sure to get them out of the way of banelings. It works well until Zerg start abusing infestors
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When patch comes out it will fix inflated elo, don't worry you t's will learn your place :D
If you really want advice post a freaking replay otherwise this is a qq thread kthx
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On August 29 2010 02:19 willkillson wrote:
When patch comes out it will fix inflated elo, don't worry you t's will learn your place :D
If you really want advice post a freaking replay otherwise this is a qq thread kthx
Actually there was lots of good discussion in this thread, that is until you decided to dumb it down with your presence and pointless posting
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Hellion Ghost will need a ton of Gas to use properly, and good luck adding any other gas heavy units. It would toast Muta Ling, but Banes aren't light so they could be a problem.
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On August 29 2010 02:39 SoFFacet wrote:
Hellion Ghost will need a ton of Gas to use properly, and good luck adding any other gas heavy units. It would toast Muta Ling, but Banes aren't light so they could be a problem.
You also forgot roaches and ultras. Thankfully, marauders rock vs both, and 2-base play has no problem fueling this unit comp with gas to spare for medivacs, upgrades and the odd tank.
Not saying that the build is perfect, but it's a very safe way to open and gives you options vs most common zerg unit comps. Certainly a lot better than pure mech or bio.
On August 29 2010 02:19 willkillson wrote:
When patch comes out it will fix inflated elo, don't worry you t's will learn your place :D
If you really want advice post a freaking replay otherwise this is a qq thread kthx
Thanks for taking the time to "read" the thread. Don't worry, you will learn your place once a mod comes by.
On August 28 2010 11:08 TSL-Lore wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2010 10:41 MrBitter wrote:On August 28 2010 10:01 TSL-Lore wrote:Ok here are some replays, as promised. This first game shows what I was talking about in my previous post about harass, harass, harass, then kill. Features Dayvie in action. ![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-143575.jpg) This second game is with a Terran named FredZ. I was completely dominating him but one misstep by me and a brilliant (or just lucky?) attack by him lost me the game. ![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-143577.jpg) These games make me look really bad, haha. Completely unrelated, but I just wanted to say: Dayvie is such a baller. Man that guy's good. He committed to 2 port banshees, and saw that i scouted it, so he got 2 dropships instead =[ I have no idea how I could have predicted or prepared for that.
Thanks for the replay, that was beautifully played by dayvie. I particularly like his "wall-in" for Scrap for TvZ. I recommend all Terrans to check it out.
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Just tried this build, i found that by the time im ready to push the zerg already had too many mutas, I opened 1 reactor fac, and 2 rax, then expanded. My expansion went up, but i didnt have enough ghosts to deal with 6-8 mutas that he had out by that time.
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I guess it is asking way too much for a help thread to post a replay of his issues. Your right Darpa so cool.
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On August 29 2010 06:00 willkillson wrote:
I guess it is asking way too much for a help thread to post a replay of his issues. Your right Darpa so cool.
More like Im tired of people with 10 posts acting with some self entitled sense of moderation, and then insulting everyone else in the thread for no apparent reason. If you arent going to contribute in a meaning full way then nobody cares what you have to say, or asks for your opinion. Let the mods mod.
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I'm sorry but are you trying to say Zerg is overpowered?
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Terran players, test hsm against mutas, it totally rocks. My like 20 mutas all died from 5 ravens and then GG for me as Z. If you succeed you won't need 100 marines but only some accompanied by marauders/hellions and whatever you like. HSM has scared the crap out of me so at least try it out. /750 zerg usually winning all ZvT except for the HSM one =S
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On August 29 2010 07:17 Darpa wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2010 06:00 willkillson wrote:
I guess it is asking way too much for a help thread to post a replay of his issues. Your right Darpa so cool. More like Im tired of people with 10 posts acting with some self entitled sense of moderation, and then insulting everyone else in the thread for no apparent reason. If you arent going to contribute in a meaning full way then nobody cares what you have to say, or asks for your opinion. Let the mods mod.
Why are you going mech vs Zerg? It pretty much sucks now that people figured out how to spread their mutas. Just go MMM with maybe some tanks, that's where the imba whine is at.
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On August 29 2010 07:49 gta1 wrote:
I'm sorry but are you trying to say Zerg is overpowered?
No, they just can't use their old a-move tacs and wants some help ;P (no offence T players)
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EPT
