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On August 29 2010 13:26 Floophead_III wrote:
That style of play is outdated and ineffective. My TvZ is hellion/marine/tank. I don't even really make marauders until lategame. With good control and good timing you can kill zerg before a 3rd is up, sometimes before they even have their T2 techs out.
I don't lose to zergs anymore. Trust me, don't make thors, even if they are completely imba. They rely on zerg making the wrong decisions and aren't microable. Pure mech is not good on most maps.
how do you deal with muta contain. even if you throw up 3 turrets eventually, mass muta will force significant losses.
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I do apologize that this isn't much help with your problem, as I'm not good enough and there are good responses already, but I have to say I think this is how it should be, both sides complaining about the other. If one side is totally content than something is wrong.
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On August 29 2010 13:50 naventus wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2010 13:26 Floophead_III wrote:
That style of play is outdated and ineffective. My TvZ is hellion/marine/tank. I don't even really make marauders until lategame. With good control and good timing you can kill zerg before a 3rd is up, sometimes before they even have their T2 techs out.
I don't lose to zergs anymore. Trust me, don't make thors, even if they are completely imba. They rely on zerg making the wrong decisions and aren't microable. Pure mech is not good on most maps. how do you deal with muta contain. even if you throw up 3 turrets eventually, mass muta will force significant losses.
I also would like to know, you seem to be very confident in your build.
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On August 29 2010 13:50 naventus wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2010 13:26 Floophead_III wrote:
That style of play is outdated and ineffective. My TvZ is hellion/marine/tank. I don't even really make marauders until lategame. With good control and good timing you can kill zerg before a 3rd is up, sometimes before they even have their T2 techs out.
I don't lose to zergs anymore. Trust me, don't make thors, even if they are completely imba. They rely on zerg making the wrong decisions and aren't microable. Pure mech is not good on most maps. how do you deal with muta contain. even if you throw up 3 turrets eventually, mass muta will force significant losses.
In high level replays Muta harass always seems easily deflected by just a few turrets.
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On August 28 2010 05:20 monad wrote:Show nested quote +On August 28 2010 05:12 Dente wrote:
So what you guys are saying is:
- if you don't harass, you die.
- go 5 rax reaper, even if you know that it will be nerfed in the next patch. Unfortunately, at 900 diamond, the odds are likely that the people giving you advice are well below you.
Wha.. Its not like 900 diamond is high or "good".
I dont think the "at lower ranks this works well" comment was very smart either. You can also drop hellions btw.
You just have to adjust if zergs adjust to you. You said you have problems vs muta spread ask yourself why.
If a zerg can mass mutas from 2 bases and you didnt expand yourself, you prolly made mistakes earlier and didnt pressure him enough. As a zerg you cant 2base mass muta if the terran doesnt expand himself because the first timing push will kill you if you have a low muta count you are very vulnerable.
If he can harrase you with mass mutas you have to build more towers. Yes, it means you have to build 3 sometimes 4 towers in a row on some places of your base.
If you want to attack vs mass mutas and possibly 3+ bases you need thors and marines and i saw some vikings mixed in can sometimes be very very good vs the move and hold pos mutas 
You will need tanks if he has alot of banelings/lings. You will need upgraded thors and marauders if he got ultras.
Move your army slowly scan alot, never fight on creep. Start in early game with reapers or hellions or whatever you harrase with +scan to stop the creepspread!
You have to harrase and force the zerg to build alot of lings or roaches early on so he wont get ahead in drone count.
Dont not engaged zerg in open fights with MMM and one big army, drop at 2-3 possibly more places at the same time and attack all his expansions at the same time.
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I played a zerg today that went mass muta/ling and would end up taking clusters of 3 turrets out at once. Every time I moved my marines 5 inches away from the place I was defending, he'd just keep attacking. I don't make Thors anymore because as I've been saying for months, and now everyone knows, Thors blow against well-microed mutas.
I don't really get how you're supposed to get out of a situation where the opponent has enough mutas to kill a clump of 3 turrets losing only 0-2 mutas. You can't cover your entire base in clumps of 3-4 turrets - it's way too expensive. And don't say 'don't let him get that many mutas' because insta-killing your opponent before lategame isn't a reliable strategy.
Zerg players are finally starting to come around to the realization that mass mutas can kill just about anything except stimmed marines. For way too long, groups of 10-15 mutas would run away from single missile turrets.
He just magic-boxed the mutas everywhere. My marines aren't fast enough to be at every location simultaneously, thors suck against magic-boxed mutas, and the mutas reached a critical mass where turrets die nearly instantly.
I don't really get what to do in this matchup anymore. Everyone good can defend early harass and all-ins now.
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Sorry but you are just QQing. Nobody can help you if you just crybaby like the world just went down.
You still need Thors vs Mutas and you might also need vikings. He cant magicbox mutas if he attacks towers.. Magicboxing vs marines or vikings will win you fights.
And he will loose >2 mutas vs a cluster of 3 turrets .. Also it will never pay off if he looses so many mutas to turrets.
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On August 29 2010 15:39 TheDna wrote:
Sorry but you are just QQing. Nobody can help you if you just crybaby like the world just went down.
You still need Thors vs Mutas and you might also need vikings. He cant magicbox mutas if he attacks towers.. Magicboxing vs marines or vikings will win you fights.
And he will loose >2 mutas vs a cluster of 3 turrets .. Also it will never pay off if he looses so many mutas to turrets.
Vikings? Vikings are horrible against mutas... Why?
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You need thors if he attacks your vikings your thors will rape the mutas because they are stacked if he uses the magic box your marines and your vikings will do pretty good against his mutas.
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On August 29 2010 15:39 TheDna wrote:
Sorry but you are just QQing. Nobody can help you if you just crybaby like the world just went down.
You still need Thors vs Mutas and you might also need vikings. He cant magicbox mutas if he attacks towers.. Magicboxing vs marines or vikings will win you fights.
And he will loose >2 mutas vs a cluster of 3 turrets .. Also it will never pay off if he looses so many mutas to turrets.
I am not crying, I am just asking for advice. Zergs are crying. Everythime I check the forums I see threads with "how can we fix zerg" and "zvt imbalance". Why is asking for advice crying? I never said that Z is imba, I never said that it's impossible to win. I just described the situation and it looks that a lot of terrans are facing this problem. Zergs are not even exploiting their race to the full potential (baneling drops, burrowed banelings) so it will get worse in the future (+ tank nerf).
Here are 2 replays I recommend to see:
http://www.sc2-replays.net/de/replays/516-sarens-vs-orly/
http://starcraft2reps.com/download.php?id=1250 >> especially this replay. It makes me wonder what terran can do vs mutas. For the zergs who are going to say "lol the terran just sucked": this is maka, a top korean terran. I'm not saying that it's impossible, I'm just asking if people already found some sort of counter. I'm going to try ravens more, but I wonder how well my marines can stand banelings and speedlings without tank cover (all my gas will go into ravens).
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Sounds like maybe you just need to work on your macro? I don't know enough about terran to know if that bo is solid or not. I do know you should be putting pressure on zerg to force him to make lings instead of drones. If you want to fast expo I think you need a pretty solid plan for a timing attack or something and I still don't really like not being able to harass the zerg at all. I just push out kill their expo before it's up and running then they game's pretty much over but I retreat back to my base, have units already macro'ed up from when I was attacking, I expo while I was attacking, then I immediately head back out to kill their main while I get my second up. Good zergs can hold this off but I'll have enough units back home for defense and the game's over by this point and you can do whatever you want.
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Netherlands19141 Posts
Still no replays, useless discussion as we cannot determine the definate problem. Time to close this, had its chance.
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EPT
