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United Kingdom16710 Posts
Poll: should archons be massive units?Yes (74) 62% No, just buffing attack speed will be fine (27) 23% No they are fine as it is and this will make them overpowered (11) 9% No, but they should be resistant to stun (7) 6% 119 total votes Your vote: should archons be massive units? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No, but they should be resistant to stun
(Vote): No, just buffing attack speed will be fine
(Vote): No they are fine as it is and this will make them overpowered
in PvT, archons almost exclusively make an appearance only if you have storms and you need to recycle those templars in midst of a battle. they are very good against bio with meaty shields to soak damage and a healthy amount of bonus damage with splash. so in theory it is a perfect fighter against bio balls. the reason why they are so useless in reality is that a handful of marauders will destroy it with ease. this is all down to concussive shells and the relatively simple micro required to kite them.
-now one solution is to classify them as massive units. now im not too familiar with starcraft lore so maybe someone who is can tell me if this is reasonable within the starcraft universe. as massive units, archons will be immune to concussive shells and phoenix's graviton beam. they will also be able to smash forcefields. now this last trait will affect PvP matchups but do what degree i have no idea but it will certainly be interesting.
-another way to go is to simply give archons resistence to stun attacks without making them 'massive'.
-finally a slightly different tweak is to improve their sttack speed. with a cooldown of 1.754, it takes painfully long for archons to attack. maybe reducing this slightly will improve their performance.
so what do you guys think? will this make archons more viable or will it make PvT imbalanced? the only problem i can think of now is that archons are faster than marauders/marines without stim. still, when archons come into play, you should really have stim researched so it shouldnt be that much of a problem.
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archons aren't meant to serve the role they had in sc1 though, which is what most protoss seem to think.
the real 'problem' with archons is that marauders are (imo) too powerful in combination with the rest of the terran army (slow AND mega long range, really?)
conclusion; they need to change marauders, not archons
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Imo. Templar tech is much weaker than Colossi already. Buffing Archons a bit could compensate.
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archons are fine really, they play their role really well. protoss player are still using the colossus/stalker builds and getting stomped by ultralisks, but when they start using archons it will be really really interesting.
if anything they could make their aoe slightly bigger to make them stronger against mutalisks
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i guess not really many ppl have probs with ultras...
the point is an archon gets at the MAX 2 shots off, because he either gets killed while morphing or gets slowed and blocked and doesnt even get in range.
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Well they are supposed to be "plan B" tanks. When all your energy runs low, you merge them and use them as tanks or support. With marauders, they are having the same fate as ultralisks right now.
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thing is if u get (enough) ultras in position they rape enemy balls, but archons dont even deal enough dmg when there might be the chance they end up infront of your army.
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stop trying to force archons into pvt imo
they are necessary to make high templars useful after they run out of energy. even if they die and do very little damage, it forces the terran player to retreat and kite, giving the beef of your army a better position.
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Only terrans voting? Thinking that epic slow could be slightly weaker? lol...
Make Archons useful and make their warp time longer.
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I dunno it seems like blizzard likes having the one massive ground and one massive air per race (pretty sure that's right can't think of any race that has two massives ground/air). I do think templars need something though.
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Archons could use some sort of a buff, but I agree it could also go the other way around with marauders getting nerfed... but yea, it would be cool to see them more vs. terran
Edit: I actually think making them massive is somewhat of a brilliant solution - good thinking op :-) I might not be able to factor in everything, but imo that would help the archon a lot
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Archons suck, and they are designed to suck. Don't look for buffs in a unit that the developers have expressly stated is bad, and that they are fine with this.
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the only reason a ground unit has the massive ability is to resist snares and stuns and smash forcefields. There is no units that do more damage to massive on the ground. So the option and suggestion for it are stupid.
PS- aren't archons; massive psionic bio units? I guess they used to be in phase 1 beta but were changed because yea, im pretty sure you can fungal them.
and btw archons do not suck. They are very good, just not as good as their BW counterparts at their primary role which is to counter mutalisk. But that doesn't matter because blink stalker and fenix are even harder counters.
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On August 18 2010 00:03 CharlieMurphy wrote:
the only reason a ground unit has the massive ability is to resist snares and stuns. There is no units that do more damage to massive on the ground. So the option and suggestion for it are stupid.
PS- aren't archons; massive psionic bio units?
and btw archons do not suck. They are very good, just not as good as their BW counterparts at their primary role which is to counter mutalisk. But that doesn't matter because blink stalker and fenix are even harder counters.
Archons are good vs. Mutas (not nearly as good as in BW, but still good). In BW, they also did great vs. Zealots and Zerglings. Now they don't. They're still a decent tanky unit against tanks because they withstand the massive AoE better than Zealots do, and they withstand EMP better than Immortals. In terms of raw fighting power, the only unit they do well against is mutas- and as you said, there are better counters to mutas than Archons anyway.
In my book, they mostly suck.
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I think making them massive makes sense, they're quite large.
Ironically, I also think that decreasing their pathing radius, so that they can clump up tighter along with your zealots/other archons to get to the front likes and through chokes would help a lot.
They're glowing blue balls of energy-- no big deal if they clip other units.
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On August 18 2010 00:14 Ndugu wrote:
Ironically, I also think that decreasing their pathing radius, so that they can clump up tighter along with your zealots/other archons to get to the front likes and through chokes would help a lot.
This would just make them worse for blocking tank damage?
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On August 18 2010 00:20 Pepe- wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2010 00:14 Ndugu wrote:
Ironically, I also think that decreasing their pathing radius, so that they can clump up tighter along with your zealots/other archons to get to the front likes and through chokes would help a lot.
This would just make them worse for blocking tank damage?
make the archon tripple its size, so it blocks ALL splash dmg, sry but pretty retarded argument...
and btw, being able to smash forcefields would give PvP a new twist i guess
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I think they should be massive, for sure. No reason a big ass Archon that costs 400 resources should be able to be picked up by a damn phoenix... or stunned by a little concussive shell.
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Archons should have the same debuff-immune attribute as ultras. Really, how are you going to place a debuff on a huge ball of pure energy?
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I miss archon+speedlot rushes
qq
bring small buffs to archons, and allow for bw style carrier micro. protoss fixed.
that cant hurt the balance too bad? 
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Terrans probably would like their shield armor to be "armored" so they can make more marauders instead of just making 1 ghost to EMP lol
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currently, archons just get roflowned by marauders because they get slowed so much.
and do terrans realize how FUCKED a protoss is if their HTs are emped by 1-2 emps (which is so easy to be done.)?. I think making archons massive should be justified. They are still very costly, they no longer have storms (YAY FOR TERRAN), and 2-3 archons would be there at max
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I think more than anything making archons massive would be a large step forward in the pvp matchup, not being able to restrict all the opponents zealots behind forcefields and allowing them to engage the gateway unit ball while your stalkers can blink forward to pick off the colosuss would be awesome, I'm all for seeing blizzard implement this 
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omg if archons were massive, this would make pvp and pvt so much more interesting. Being able to break forcefields and not getting slowed would add so much more dimension to the match up
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The biggest thing that needs to happen to buff Templar tech is removing the Dark Shrine.
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Making archons might make sense from a balance perspective, but does it really seem legitimate to allow them to break down sentry forcefields? I mean, they *do* hover.
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16986 Posts
The only thing I've ever used Archons for is as death fodder while retreating. If I know my army is going to get picked off and my Templar don't have energy, I'll morph them into Archons so hopefully some of my other army can survive.
That being said, I have no clue what purpose this would serve.
Oh, and closing this thread. Precedent and all.
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EPT
