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I was not planning on creating another blog entry so soon, but after the events of last night I need to find an answer.
Yesterday, since I had nothing better to do with no sc2, I just started going to town editing everything I had on tl.net. I updated my user profile, my stream profile, made a blog, and finally created a forum thread for my stream...
Upon creating a forum thread for my stream, people instantly came and started to just insult me and cause arguments with me. I did nothing to them... I said nothing to them... I just created a thread for my stream without notifying them in anyway. And they just came to it and started flaming... This leads me to the question in which I'm seeking an answer.
Why do these people feel the absolute need to let their opinion be heard especially when it's something negative??? Like what value are you possibly adding to a thread by posting your negative opinion about the poster???
For example... If I have a negative opinion about someone I keep it to myself. Just the fact that I know my opinion means something to me. I am not then like, "Ok, I think this guy is a complete idiot, so I'm going to go to his thread and tell him about how big of an idiot he is." No, I have more dignity in my opinion than that. I value it so much that I would never have to do that.
Now with that being said, sometimes you need to voice your opinion or else youll just explode from anger. But if thats the case, why wouldn't you make your own individual thread about the matter, or just tell one of your friends your opinion? Why do people actually feel the need to directly tell the target of their anger how they feel about them and go out of the way to do so??? Why do they have this compulsion?? I don't think that helps or solves anything, it just completely disrespects that person. Why is it so important to have to tell them what you think of them? Why can't you just keep it to yourself? Do they get satisfaction in directly telling a person their opinion? Do they sleep better at night? Do they think they are funny? I just want to know why they behave in such a manner so I can at least understand.
Now I'm not saying everyone is like this. In fact I only think about 1% of people actually behave in this manner, the other 99% have dignity in their opinion and feel no need to voice it to the world, especially the target of their opinion.
But for that 1% I just can't figure out why they feel the need to tell someone their opinion (again especially the target of it). Like have some dignity and respect for your opinion and yourself. Have faith in it! It's an opinion! It's right no matter what anyone else says!!!! So why does that 1% lack such dignity that they cannot be satisfied with self-acknowledgment of their own opinion??? Why do they feel so compelled to tell someone, in most cases the target of their opinion, how they feel, especially when its negative? Again, I know I'm being redundant, but what do they get out of telling them their opinion? Satisfaction? Do they sleep better? What?
So in closing I ask everyone... What does your opinion mean to you? Are you satisfied by merely self-acknowledging your opinion? Or are you the type that also needs to voice your opinion in order to be satisfied? How much dignity do you have in your opinion???
Edit: Good example of what I am trying to explain.
On July 27 2010 01:32 SkytoM wrote:
If i never tell people i am angry with, that i am angry, how does THAT solve anything?
critizism is essential for improvement
I think that isn't an opinion... "I am angry with you" is a fact assuming that you are indeed angry at them... That's completely different...
If in that same discussion you proceed to then be like, "i am angry with you, your a fat piece of shit..." Then you would have added your opinion. And in that case I ask, does that really solve anything? Did that really help you solve anything adding that last line about that person being a fat piece of shit??? What do you get out of telling that to the person???
With that being said, I agree that criticism is essential for improvement, however personal opinion should be left out of it, it should be strictly objective in order for it to actually be constructive.
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Im stopped reading a few paragraphs in, this may not be news for you but: People on the internet are dickheads, and if they feel like insulting instead of criticizing then tough luck, Its crap but its the way it works.
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On July 27 2010 01:23 Mecha_cl wrote:
Im stopped reading a few paragraphs in, this may not be news for you but: People on the internet are dickheads, and if they feel like insulting instead of criticizing then tough luck, Its crap but its the way it works.
Of course, that's a gimme, but my question is more psychological. They are dickheads yes, but why do they have the need to voice their opinion to the world? What do they get out of it?? Do they get satisfaction from directly telling the target of their opinion what they think about them? Do they sleep better at night knowing that they voiced their opinion to them? I just don't understand...
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I think you know the answers to the questions you ask.
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On July 27 2010 01:29 Xyik wrote:
I think you know the answers to the questions you ask.
I have my assumptions, but I can't say I know for certain which is why I'm asking. I don't feel this compulsion so I really cannot say...
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If i never tell people i am angry with, that i am angry, how does THAT solve anything?
critizism is essential for improvement
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On July 27 2010 01:32 SkytoM wrote:
If i never tell people i am angry with, that i am angry, how does THAT solve anything?
critizism is essential for improvement
EDIT: I think that isn't an opinion... "I am angry with you" is a fact assuming that you are indeed angry at them... That's completely different...
If in that same discussion you proceed to then be like, "i am angry with you, your a fat piece of shit..." Then you would have added your opinion. And in that case I ask, does that really solve anything? Did that really help you solve anything adding that last line about that person being a fat piece of shit??? What do you get out of telling that to the person???
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Generally speaking it has nothing to do with you. These people are angry and frustrated about something completely unrelated (shitty job, lousy boss, etc.) and are simply venting their frustrations on you.
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On July 27 2010 01:26 BigT wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2010 01:23 Mecha_cl wrote:
Im stopped reading a few paragraphs in, this may not be news for you but: People on the internet are dickheads, and if they feel like insulting instead of criticizing then tough luck, Its crap but its the way it works. Of course, that's a gimme, but my question is more psychological. They are dickheads yes, but why do they have the need to voice their opinion to the world? What do they get out of it?? Do they get satisfaction from directly telling the target of their opinion what they think about them? Do they sleep better at night knowing that they voiced their opinion to them? I just don't understand...
then enjoy the fact that is irks u, the fact that u make another blog talking about them, just feeds the fire
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To dickheads, voicing their opinion is not like you and I voice an opinion; thouroughful thinking followed by careful construction of arguments, effort being put in action. No, not at all. To a dickhead, voicing an opinion is more like breathing. Or taking a shit. It feels good to let it flow, it takes the pressure off.
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Its the internet, if you cant handle random people talking shit to you for no reason then maybe the internet isnt the place for you.
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Looking back over the thread in question, the post that seems to have really set BigT off was filled with
. . . *drumroll* . . .
well-thought out constructive criticism.
Go figure.
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I just can't accept that they only do it because it feels good... There has to be another underlying reason... Or maybe I am just really trying to give them too much benefit of the doubt :/
Like even now people are continuing to come to my thread to tell me their opinion, I just dont understand it, why are these people going out of their way to further voice their negative opinions about myself to me?
@Kingsp4ade20: It sounds like your inferring that I am not able to handle it... That's not the problem. I just want to figure out why they are so compelled to behave the way they do.
On July 27 2010 02:00 HCastorp wrote:
Looking back over the thread in question, the post that seems to have really set BigT off was filled with
. . . *drumroll* . . .
well-thought out constructive criticism.
Go figure.
No, I didn't find people arguing with me, telling me how I'm wrong and they are right as constructive criticism lol.
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Well, luckily Pokepill posted the the link so people can decide for themselves.
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On July 27 2010 02:05 HCastorp wrote:
Well, luckily Pokepill posted the the link so people can decide for themselves.
Indeed, but its important to remember, that what you decide and what I decide are not the same. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, so even if you think it was in fact constructive criticism you cant then go try to tell me that my opinion is wrong... That's the entire point I'm trying to get across 
Whether or not what those people said was constructive criticism or not depends on the perception of the one receiving it. And I received it as NOT constructive criticism, that's MY opinion and it needs to be respected. You cannot tell me my OPINION is wrong. If you respect my opinion instead of trying to tell me my opinion is wrong, then my response will be understood
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How did you manage to piss of people within 140 posts and a livestream i'm asking myself!?
Maybe just lay low and do your thing? This thread alone is seeking attention suspiciously similar to a certain character we had on this forum long time ago. If you start giving strategies your own name, trust me, it's not going to end well haha.
Anyway, never saw your stream, probably never will but i heard people on my stream talking about you and how you have a certain way of taking losses. Maybe that's the thing?
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Was reading the blog and then I checked link.
If you don't want people posting their opinions on your shit, don't post it in the first place. The forums are a place to discuss...
Why do these people feel the absolute need to let their opinion be heard especially when it's something negative??? Like what value are you possibly adding to a thread by posting your negative opinion about the poster???
why not?
+ Show Spoiler +
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Well it looked like you were having trouble dealing with criticism so people tried to help by suggesting ways to deal with it (cpt. nasty). You decided to act like a 10 year old and refuse to read what he wrote, so I heartily approve of any flaming after that post. If in all your humbleness you think that people suggesting help are automatically wrong because you have an opinion on the matter, then people will dislike you. The internet is full of people who like to annoy and argue, and people like you are prime targets.
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On July 27 2010 02:17 KawaiiRice wrote:Was reading the blog and then I checked link. If you don't want people posting their opinions on your shit, don't post it in the first place. The forums are a place to discuss... Show nested quote +Why do these people feel the absolute need to let their opinion be heard especially when it's something negative??? Like what value are you possibly adding to a thread by posting your negative opinion about the poster??? + Show Spoiler +
Man everyone keeps making all these inferences! You seem to be inferring that I don't want people posting their opinions. I can't say I encourage it, but as you say, "the forums are a place to discuss". I'm just trying to understand O_O* Why do people feel so compelled to out of no where insult, name call, and argue with me? O_O*
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My man!
It's just projections, these people feel bad about themselves in some way
We pay more attention to the negative then the neutral, or sometimes positive
The "they" isn't a term that helps here. Many people might have a bad day and just be looking to cut some throats online, but I've seen lots of posters who will rip on someone one day, then for the next week be relatively pleasant
Also, most people on the internet, just like in life, are more intent on having their opinion be seen as correct rather than accept new ones. It's like that in real life too, just less opportunities arise to bark at strangers.
Most of all, don't worry : )
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Because we're all big douchebags and we hate your haircut. Honestly, people have answered your 'why do people get angry with me' question 5x over. O_O*
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On July 27 2010 02:20 BigT wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2010 02:17 KawaiiRice wrote:Was reading the blog and then I checked link. If you don't want people posting their opinions on your shit, don't post it in the first place. The forums are a place to discuss... Why do these people feel the absolute need to let their opinion be heard especially when it's something negative??? Like what value are you possibly adding to a thread by posting your negative opinion about the poster??? why not? + Show Spoiler + Man everyone keeps making all these inferences! You seem to be inferring that I don't want people posting their opinions. I can't say I encourage it, but as you say, "the forums are a place to discuss". I'm just trying to understand O_O* Why do people feel so compelled to out of no where insult, name call, and argue with me? O_O*
+ Show Spoiler [Spoiler'd to make post smaller[s…] +On July 26 2010 05:41 Cpt.Nasty wrote:
My only suggestion is to learn how to deal with criticism better, constructive or not. IMO a platinum/diamond level player should be able to take a statement such as "build cannons" and asses the pros/cons of that advice on their own. You're a big boy, why does every criticism have to come with a compliment or walk-through?
You're gaming skills are fine. I wouldn't bother looking over your mechanics, since your placement kinda already states that you know how to make probes. But the way I see it, when you do make mistakes, you overreact when people aren't nice about it. Do you think White Ra tells people "If you dont have anything nice to say dont say it at all" when he does a silly mistake and people call him out on it in "mean" ways?
My biggest problem with the caster is that he hasn't seemed to decide what kind of personality he is. Are we going to be super-confident in our skills/abilities? Then why complain about criticism? If you're that good and confident, we should be able to see you take what at first appears to be bad advice "build cannons" and explore exactly why it's good/bad. The peanut gallery has no obligations to give you criticism just the way you like it.
I just don't think the caster themselves has decided what kind of personality to go for. "I'm humble", yet, "Atleast you know who i am though! I have no idea who you are haha." Doesn't seem very humble to me.
The playstyle isn't bad. But I think if you really want to be successful, you should really take into consideration how you're going to respond to your audience, and how that response makes you look to others. Right now I know you're a decent player, but there are tons of decent players out there with streams. Your personality is what is going to sell, and personally, as a stream watcher, I'm getting mixed signals about who you are. You seem confident, yet can't take any kind criticism that isn't sugar-coated.
Your internet/streaming persona is not the same as your RL one. You have to walk the line between "hey this me as I normally am" and selling us an image of who we want to see/hear from. Day9 doesn't go around arguing with people about giving him criticism. I think he's a bit more professional than that. I would think anyone, Husky, HD, etc. would rather have negative comments than none, because it shows people are paying attention.
I think once the persona gets a little solidified the stream will have a much wider audience. Which is what you want if you're casting to educate/make people better. Remember, a lot of the time the people who will be giving you "negative" criticism are probably worse players than you who are just taking the opportunity to point out a hole in the play of someone else. I mean, look at every replay in which White Ra or Huk or Tester loses, people /pounce/ on their mistakes.
Of course, these people will never admit to being worse players (why would people watch streams of people worse than them? And if they're such awesome players, they would have explained their reasoning anyways). Don't treat them as people of equal skill who are critiquing your play. That's not your audience. Treat them like noobs. Take the criticism seriously no matter the form.
Viewer A- "BUILD MORE CANNONS NUUUUUUB!"
Mr.Big-T-
"I see some people suggesting cannons, the reason I didn't go cannons here is because I needed the money more zealots because I saw there was a window in his timing that I could abuse."
Now you sound like a confident, intelligent, skilled player who not only plays decently, but can explain the reasoning behind every one of their moves. If you can explain why you did/did not do this based on x, y and z, you accomplish many things. You educate, show your knowledge, and show that you can take any question seriously, even if it's some dumbass spamming "cannons!" in your chat.
That's my advice. At the least it sounds better than complaining about the feedback IMO. I empathize with you, I just don't think it's the best way to interact with the audience.
And in reply
On July 26 2010 08:47 BigT wrote:
@ Cpt.Nasty: Yeah I'm not even reading all that haha. From the words of Day[9] himself, "There is no reason to prove that your right over the internet". Look how much time you devoted into trying to prove your point, no one cares, keep it to yourself.
Yeah erm.. okay.
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On July 27 2010 02:20 DCLXVI wrote:
Well it looked like you were having trouble dealing with criticism so people tried to help by suggesting ways to deal with it (cpt. nasty). You decided to act like a 10 year old and refuse to read what he wrote, so I heartily approve of any flaming after that post. If in all your humbleness you think that people suggesting help are automatically wrong because you have an opinion on the matter, then people will dislike you. The internet is full of people who like to annoy and argue, and people like you are prime targets.
Ahh yesss... I actually value this post for bringing up the actual start of all this. Your absolutely right, cpt.nasty was trying to suggest ways to deal with constructive criticism because previously in the thread it looked like i was "having trouble dealing with criticism". That is indeed correct.
However, I was not "having trouble dealing with criticism". No, the first post that started this was a rude insult... not criticism at all (based on my opinion which you cannot tell me is wrong, its an opinion). So the fact that cpt.nasty then decided to say I wasn't handling criticism well was completely off base... That wasn't an example of me handling criticism well, it was me responding to that initial insult, completely different. Which is why cpt.nasty's response was completely unconstructive. He didn't take into account anything I said, thought, or felt...
And why do people continue to call me names? lol.
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On July 27 2010 02:25 KawaiiRice wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2010 02:20 BigT wrote:On July 27 2010 02:17 KawaiiRice wrote:Was reading the blog and then I checked link. If you don't want people posting their opinions on your shit, don't post it in the first place. The forums are a place to discuss... Why do these people feel the absolute need to let their opinion be heard especially when it's something negative??? Like what value are you possibly adding to a thread by posting your negative opinion about the poster??? why not? + Show Spoiler + Man everyone keeps making all these inferences! You seem to be inferring that I don't want people posting their opinions. I can't say I encourage it, but as you say, "the forums are a place to discuss". I'm just trying to understand O_O* Why do people feel so compelled to out of no where insult, name call, and argue with me? O_O* + Show Spoiler [Spoiler'd to make post smaller[s…] +On July 26 2010 05:41 Cpt.Nasty wrote:
My only suggestion is to learn how to deal with criticism better, constructive or not. IMO a platinum/diamond level player should be able to take a statement such as "build cannons" and asses the pros/cons of that advice on their own. You're a big boy, why does every criticism have to come with a compliment or walk-through?
You're gaming skills are fine. I wouldn't bother looking over your mechanics, since your placement kinda already states that you know how to make probes. But the way I see it, when you do make mistakes, you overreact when people aren't nice about it. Do you think White Ra tells people "If you dont have anything nice to say dont say it at all" when he does a silly mistake and people call him out on it in "mean" ways?
My biggest problem with the caster is that he hasn't seemed to decide what kind of personality he is. Are we going to be super-confident in our skills/abilities? Then why complain about criticism? If you're that good and confident, we should be able to see you take what at first appears to be bad advice "build cannons" and explore exactly why it's good/bad. The peanut gallery has no obligations to give you criticism just the way you like it.
I just don't think the caster themselves has decided what kind of personality to go for. "I'm humble", yet, "Atleast you know who i am though! I have no idea who you are haha." Doesn't seem very humble to me.
The playstyle isn't bad. But I think if you really want to be successful, you should really take into consideration how you're going to respond to your audience, and how that response makes you look to others. Right now I know you're a decent player, but there are tons of decent players out there with streams. Your personality is what is going to sell, and personally, as a stream watcher, I'm getting mixed signals about who you are. You seem confident, yet can't take any kind criticism that isn't sugar-coated.
Your internet/streaming persona is not the same as your RL one. You have to walk the line between "hey this me as I normally am" and selling us an image of who we want to see/hear from. Day9 doesn't go around arguing with people about giving him criticism. I think he's a bit more professional than that. I would think anyone, Husky, HD, etc. would rather have negative comments than none, because it shows people are paying attention.
I think once the persona gets a little solidified the stream will have a much wider audience. Which is what you want if you're casting to educate/make people better. Remember, a lot of the time the people who will be giving you "negative" criticism are probably worse players than you who are just taking the opportunity to point out a hole in the play of someone else. I mean, look at every replay in which White Ra or Huk or Tester loses, people /pounce/ on their mistakes.
Of course, these people will never admit to being worse players (why would people watch streams of people worse than them? And if they're such awesome players, they would have explained their reasoning anyways). Don't treat them as people of equal skill who are critiquing your play. That's not your audience. Treat them like noobs. Take the criticism seriously no matter the form.
Viewer A- "BUILD MORE CANNONS NUUUUUUB!"
Mr.Big-T-
"I see some people suggesting cannons, the reason I didn't go cannons here is because I needed the money more zealots because I saw there was a window in his timing that I could abuse."
Now you sound like a confident, intelligent, skilled player who not only plays decently, but can explain the reasoning behind every one of their moves. If you can explain why you did/did not do this based on x, y and z, you accomplish many things. You educate, show your knowledge, and show that you can take any question seriously, even if it's some dumbass spamming "cannons!" in your chat.
That's my advice. At the least it sounds better than complaining about the feedback IMO. I empathize with you, I just don't think it's the best way to interact with the audience.
And in reply Show nested quote +On July 26 2010 08:47 BigT wrote:
@ Cpt.Nasty: Yeah I'm not even reading all that haha. From the words of Day[9] himself, "There is no reason to prove that your right over the internet". Look how much time you devoted into trying to prove your point, no one cares, keep it to yourself. Yeah erm.. okay.
EDIT: Sorry let me expand... you have to understand the context of that quote. I was referring to him continuing to argue with me. If you just want to throw out an opinion great. But if your going to try to prove somehow that your opinion is right and mine is wrong then save me... Thats like having an argument about whose ePeen is the biggest haha.
On July 27 2010 02:25 Xyik wrote:
Because we're all big douchebags and we hate your haircut. Honestly, people have answered your 'why do people get angry with me' question 5x over. O_O*
Whats wrong with my haircut haha xD
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I read through that other thread. You get caught up in this whole "THAT'S JUST YOUR OPINION, WHY DON'T YOU AGREE WITH ME? BE CONSTRUCTIVE" bullshit because you don't like what they're saying. Do you even understand what you, yourself, are saying?
You remind me of combat-ex + racenilatr combined!
HOLY BALLS you get so extremely caught up in this "YOUR OPINION, YOUR OPINION!" shit, wow. The more I read of you, the dumber you make yourself look. HAHAHAHHAA is this a joke, bro? These people are telling you how to improve and you just dismiss it. Then a 1 poster comes along, says something nice, and you have a wank over it. Ego much?
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On July 27 2010 01:21 BigT wrote:
Like what value are you possibly adding to a thread by posting your negative opinion about the poster???
Because when I take the time to answer your question you pay no heed to it and instead respond to the very types of people you are outraged at
: (
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An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it.
- Jef Mallett
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On July 27 2010 02:46 ella_guru wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2010 01:21 BigT wrote:
Like what value are you possibly adding to a thread by posting your negative opinion about the poster???
Because when I take the time to answer your question you pay no heed to it and instead respond to the very types of people you are outraged at : (
Awww, hey sorry man, heres a post dedicated to you. I appreciate your honest answer! Just trying to deal with all these negative nancies haha. But I did get your answer, thank you! Now turn that frown upside down! haha
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On July 27 2010 02:46 faseman wrote:
I read through that other thread. You get caught up in this whole "THAT'S JUST YOUR OPINION, WHY DON'T YOU AGREE WITH ME? BE CONSTRUCTIVE" bullshit because you don't like what they're saying. Do you even understand what you, yourself, are saying?
You remind me of combat-ex + racenilatr combined!
HOLY BALLS you get so extremely caught up in this "YOUR OPINION, YOUR OPINION!" shit, wow. The more I read of you, the dumber you make yourself look. HAHAHAHHAA is this a joke, bro? These people are telling you how to improve and you just dismiss it. Then a 1 poster comes along, says something nice, and you have a wank over it. Ego much?
I don't understand what your trying to say really... These people were trying to help me improve on something that I don't need help improving on... They made these suggestions under a false impression based on what they thought was me responding to constructive criticism, which was in fact me responding to an insult. They got the two confused and thus their suggestions weren't valid.
I actually take constructive criticism fine. If you watch my stream you'll see this :D
And yeah, I not only give people arguing with me attention, I also want to give the same attention to thus complimenting me!
And like you didnt say one thing constructive in your post... You just insulted me numerous times over. What do you get out of that? What compels you to actually spend the time to type it out (even if it didnt take that long it still took longer than not typing at all  )
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On July 27 2010 03:07 Barrin wrote:
I read the OP, but forgive me for not reading all the replies.
The way I see it, recieving criticism is a critical method for people to "grow" in life.
That aside, there is nothing wrong with the proverbial saying your mommy may have told you: "If you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all."
Beyond that, if you truly think that you have ideas that might be of any genuine value to the person, then go ahead and voice them in a reasonable fashion. Even if someone is doing this to you and you don't agree right away, I promise you it is to your benefit to try to understand why they think that.
But when someone is just bored and childish enough to go out of their way to express nothing of genuine value to their audience on purpose, then they've really crossed the line into extra failmode, IMO.
Yeah, if you actually go to the thread in question (posted somewhere) these people just came out of no where, went completely out of their way to just insult me. Completely opposite of being constructive lol.
I agree totally with criticism being a good thing whether it be positive or negative in nature!!! I actually respond very well to criticism. The problem was people were confusing my reactions over someone blatantly insulting me with how I react over someone trying to give me criticism.
But my question still stands. What compels those people who cannot resist keeping their thoughts to themselves? What do they gain out of voicing their opinions and insulting someone? The answer, because it makes them feel good just doesn't sit well. How can people get pleasure out of that?
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Why does your question still stand when it's been answered many times over in this very thread?
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I think the "constructive criticism" you're receiving might have something to do with your attitude.
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Calgary25980 Posts
This trend of people arguing in another thread, then starting their own thread to highlight their own points has to stop.
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Calgary25980 Posts
Also, I just read your stream thread and you sound like a douche over there. Humble up imo.
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EPT
