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![[image loading]](http://lh6.ggpht.com/_BUfwoWJGKzs/S9NylhFIGdI/AAAAAAAABNQ/_YDwgT6Vkcw/state-of-the-game-v2.jpg) RSS Feed, Please subscribe >>HERE<< and official site >>HERE<<
Oh hello! Remember the good ol' State of the Game podcast? It wasn't that long ago that I posted a show I hope! People still remember the name... right? Well, in case you have no idea who the hell I am please read below. If you do, then hello again!
Show is now recorded and available for download below!
>>DOWNLOAD HERE<< || >>Alternative Link<< (Filefront)
Episode 6 Guests:
- JP McDaniel - Host / Former WoW Addict / Giant Nerd
- Sean "Day[9]" Plott - Co-host / Day[9] Dailies / Commentator / You know. Comon.
- Dan "Artosis" Stemkosky - SCForAll.com / Commentator / Dr.Evil
- Dario "Liquid`TLO" Wünsch - German badass / Genius / Statistician
- Maybe one or two more special guests! WHO KNOWS!
Quite a roster! Feel free to direct questions at any one of the guests specifically or at the group. Please tag all questions with a bolded @Question! Thanks!
We're going to be talking about the last two patches we didn't talk about before the beta ended, what the hell a nerd is supposed to do without SC2 beta, and some other topics I'll save for the show! Thanks everyone!
P.S. - I might broadcast this live (or convince Sean to do it) over UStream.TV, but I'll confirm / deny this before we record Wednesday night.
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JP here from MLG. If you haven't watched or seen MLG's Showcase Series, then you probably don't know me. If you have, thanks for watching!
A little about me...
+ Show Spoiler +While I don't intend to tell my life story here, I do want to include a little background about my podcasting history. I've run a WoW PvP podcast (oh no, my secrets out!) for two years coming up this June. ArenaCast did quite well for itself, building a community and peaking at around 12,000 weekly downloads on shows. As of late, my interest in the game has slowed down, and I've stopped doing it as my co-hosts bowed out one-by-one.
Podcast Info
I've decided to go ahead and do a podcast -- maybe weekly, maybe bi-weekly, or this may be the first and last episode -- for SC2. Right now its a developing project, so I'm just winging it and naming it State of the Game SC2 Beta Podcast. Keep in mind that I'm still working on molding the show. I'm more of a dive-right-in, fix-it-later type guy so that's what I plan on doing!
SotG 5.20.10
+ Show Spoiler +Episode 5: a bittersweet semi-end to what has now grown into a great podcast to be a part of -- something the community now 'owns'. It's been a weird and wild ride but I'm closing up shop for a couple of weeks as I have travel to California and then to Ohio for the start of the MLG PC Circuit. This weeks podcast I think is the finest yet. It was definitely crazy and if you don't find yourself cracking a smile at least once I seriously question your sense of humor. Patch notes + a look back at the beta from all aspects are the topics. Also, forgive me for being insanely tired and forgetting which match-ups were discussed later on. Also, if any Blizzard employees listen to this podcast, please do NOT take any of the suggestions from this cast. Except for the Ultralisk with cannons on its side. Do that. Thanks! >>DOWNLOAD HERE<< || >>Alternative Link<< (Filefront) Episode 5 Guests: - JP McDaniel - Host / Former WoW Addict / Giant Nerd
- Sean "Day[9]" Plott - Co-host / Day[9] Dailies / Commentator / Town Drunk
- Dan "Artosis" Stemkosky - SCForAll.com / Commentator / Dr.Evil
- Tyler "Liquid`NonY" Wasieleski - SC1 Veteran / All-around badass
- Rori "Cluck" Bryant-Raible - WC3 Veteran / The Cluckiest Clucker Who Ever Clucked
This isn't goodbye, it is only a see you later. Till next time!
SotG 5.11.10
+ Show Spoiler +The show runs about 1h40m long as we really dig into the patch notes. >>DOWNLOAD HERE<< || >>Alternative Link<< (Filefront) Remember to checkout all of the MLG SC2 events going on: Fight Night, Showmatch Series, MLG YouTube Page and the GameBattles 1v1 SC2 League (link forthcoming) Thanks everyone and feel free to post questions for the next cast in this thread using the @Question signal. Episode 4 Guests: - JP McDaniel - Host
- Sean "Day[9]" Plott - Co-host / Day[9] Dailies / Commentator
- Liquid`TLO
- Tyler "Liquid`NonY" Wasieleski - SC1 Veteran / All-around badass
SotG 4.23.10
+ Show Spoiler +The podcast has been added to iTunes and should show up in the next couple of hours. Show can now be downloaded below. We had a last second guest sub in but I think you guys will be happy with the two new guests. >>DOWNLOAD HERE<<>>Alternative Link<< (Filefront) A new week, a new podcast! Just not quite yet. We'll be recording later in the week most likely so I apologize for people clicking this and expecting a brand new cast, however, don't close the thread! We need user questions! The second week we skipped them altogether because of my poor planning. This week, that just won't do. So if you're interested in submitting a question to ask this weeks cast, simply respond to this post and include a bolded @Question tag before your question. Pretty simple! Below you can find more information about the podcast if you're a new listener and also links to our previous episodes. Also, this week we have a special treat for everyone: Nony! Episode 3 Guests: - JP McDaniel - Host
- Sean "Day[9]" Plott - Co-host / Day[9] Dailies / Commentator
- Liquid`TLO
- Liquid`Jinro
- Tyler "Liquid`NonY" Wasieleski - SC1 Veteran / All-around badass
I'll update this thread with more information as to when we're recording (maybe I'll even do a live show this week? and also download links when we finish it.
SotG 4.9.10
+ Show Spoiler +Episode 2 Guests: - JP McDaniel - Host
- Sean "Day[9]" Plott
- David "EG.Louder" Fells
- Jacob "EG.LzGaMeR" winstead
Topics: - Patch 8
- SC2 evolution vs. SC1 evolution
- Event Watch
- Rising Stars
>>DOWNLOAD HERE<<>>Alternative Link<< (Filefront)
SotG 4.1.10
+ Show Spoiler +Episode 1 Guests: Topics: - Patches - major changes from each patch, thoughts on it
- SC2 vs SC1 - major / minor differences, better / worse?
- Match-up of the week: ZvT - an all encompassing discussion about the match-up
- SC2's gunna be big in e-sports; we know that. What do we want to see happen, though?
- Evolution of Play in SC2 -- Week 1 to Now
- Map Banter: Desert Oasis -- discussions about the map
Podcast is recorded and can be downloaded >>HERE<<>>Alternative Link<< (Filefront) Sorry, download is kinda slow. Sorry, not all topics were covered. Sorry, Nony's computer died right before the cast or something. Hope he's not dead. PLEASE comment and tell me what everyone thinks!
User Questions
- If you're interested in submitting a question to ask this weeks cast, simply respond to this post and include a bolded @Question tag before your question. Pretty simple!
As always, I am constantly looking to improve anything I do on the internetz. If you have any suggestions about topics or you feel like calling me a giant noob then feel free to post!
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Uhhhhh... someone please rename this "[EP6] State of the Game SC2 Podcast" please. Such a fucking moron I am...
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I like the name as it is!
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51497 Posts
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Hey JP, glad to see you're planning on bringing SoG back as I really enjoyed all of them so far :D
Not so much a question, but I'd love to see a discussion between TLO and Artosis about ZvT mech balance, I know Artosis believes mech is too powerful, while recently (noticeably the Day9 Daily), TLO has said that it isn't and I would love to see some discussion between the two (and other cast members of course), I play Protoss and don't really have an opinion either way, but I'd love to see a discussion on it.
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On June 21 2010 18:46 GTR wrote:Staying as asdiuhasuidh uaihsd iuhas duihasduih, sorry. + Show Spoiler +
I don't know what you're referring to good sir!
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been waiting for this. pm'ing a question right now.
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no don't pm! PREEZ! NO! In thread it is easier for me to keep track!
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ok... so is there a 6th eps soon?
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ohhhh, so keen. loved the last episode of this.
don't ever make this podcast less than an hour please :D
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JP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! we missed you <3
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On June 21 2010 18:58 DragoonPK wrote:
ok... so is there a 6th eps soon?
Some people don't read  It should be up Wednesday night (late).
P.S. - I might broadcast this live (or convince Sean to do it) over UStream.TV, but I'll confirm / deny this before we record Wednesday night.
Also, so I can keep track of the questions better.
heishe @question What do your guests think will set the worlds very best players apart from the "lower ranked" pro gamers: Well trained, solid mechanics (micro,macro) or creativity in strategy and tactics (hi TLO)?
Also, Liquid`Jinro semi-confirmed to possibly be there for the upcoming show! zOMG Scoobs!
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@question
for artosis, somewhat in regard to his map balance article
What features in a map are beneficial or even imbalanced towards the different races? in other words, how can you tell when a map is imbalanced or works better for a certain race?
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Nice to have new episodes, I liked the earlier episodes a lot.
I don't know whether having video along this type of program is necessary unless it has something to add to the show. Personally watching people talk isn't usually worth it, so I would end up listening, video running in the taskbar.
Btw, there's episode 5 roster in the OP, which distracted me to think this was old post done again, glad I read more precisely.
edit: I noticed I was bit too negative against video. Video feed could be used to have info like current question/topic discussed or show example videos of certain discussion topic (say like show how phoenix behaves after the shoot while moving patch).
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Do you guys think that adding tanks to the list of things PDD blocks would add a beneficial or detrimental aspect to TvT's innovation and variety?
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Please get louder on with artosis.
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The previous eps were fantastic, can't wait
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@question
I wanna know if they could import 1 thing from sc1 what would it be.
(It can be anything from maps over mechcanincs (high ground advantage?) to Units)
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@question
With ultralisks finally being able to become a viable units... For ground-ground combat do you guys think that pure-melee zerg units(zergling,baneling and ultralisks) is now an equally powerful option in comparison to the standard pure-ranged zerg units build(roach/hydra).. Or do you guys think that the roach hydra will still be the bulk of the zerg ground-armies and the melee units are only for support/harrass?
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Sweet, I love this series! And it's 10x more desirable to have this content when we're in the middle of the beta drought 
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@question
How do you feel the current 8 mineral 2 gas system for every expansion setup that blizzard has defined as standard in all of their official maps have done towards streamlining how the game flows?
Does it promote two bases all-inn strategies too much by nature of the amount of minerals and gas available?
@question
Do you miss vulture spider mines?
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Just a small request:
Change
+ Show Spoiler +Sean "Day[9]" Plott - Co-host / Day[9] Dailies / Commentator / You know. Comon.
to
+ Show Spoiler +Sean "Day[9]" Plott - Co-host / Day[9] Dailies / Commentator / Thought Hammer!
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8751 Posts
Artosis + Day[9] good combo
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JP, I would like you to ask TLO or/and Artosis a question considering late game Zerg vs Protoss.
The Protoss Collossi/Sentry/Stalker ball is rather deadly against Zerg, and I would like to hear TLO and Artosis' view on ways to deal with it as Zerg.
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love that you are coming back with new stuff !!
anyways
Q; Seeing as how sundance has confirmed that he wants to bring sc2 to the mlg circuit and blizzard has confirmed osl2 having a sc2 proffessional edition with lan, is MLG also getting the proffessional edition? If so, does this mean that MLG is considering going pro with sc2 ?
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@question
I'd like to hear the thoughts on diversification in ZvZ with the mass queen strategy Day9 has shown off in his dailies. Also I wonder, if on a large map where this strategy could be said to be weaker due to having to spread more creep/travel more distance etc, what does Day9 think of using a nydus worm and overlords with speed (for creep spreading) to get the queens to a destination quicker on a larger map to make it more usable on a wider range of map types?
I think a lot of people would agree that blizzard had one job from coming from Brood War into sc2, and that was to make fucking ZvZ interesting =). Do you think they have succeeded in light of this new strategy which could open up more doors to creative ZvZ play? And as Day9 pointed out, it could no longer be the gas battle that it once was.
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@question: It's been noticed already on TL.net that the beta has brought a lot of new blood to the SC community. Some of these people aren't aware of BW or the Korean progaming scene or the countless other contributors/pros from before SC2. This is nothing compared to the influx that will come at release. How can the BW and TL communities integrate such large amounts of people without losing their own voice, history, and identity along the way?
Always love these podcasts and love to see TLO back on them! He's a treasure trove of information and analysis. I love to read his opinions because I know they're always backed by a deep knowledge of the mathematics of the game!
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Question aimed at all guests:
Q: In comparison to Broodwar, how effective is tech switching from the mid-to-late game perspective in the current incarnation of SC2 (perhaps broken down by race)?
Do we see enough Tech switching in current games?
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First, Thanks so much, definitely my favorite podcast I have been waiting for these to resume! Glad to see TLO is returning as well.
@question: to the random players, since they have to practice for all the races, what areas do they feel are most unique between the races and when training need the most attention. What areas are the most the similar, and do they need as much practice?
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Is there a way for you to release these podcasts on itunes? I'd like to put it on my ipod to listen to while working. Although, come to think of it, that might not be a good idea. Laughing while handling dangerous chemicals might not be the best idea. Ah well, sacrifices must be made for Starcraft.
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Dear JP:
You got my hopes up with this thread, I was looking forward to another great cast to listen to today :-). Can't wait for EP6! It's just so great to get the great minds of the game together for a long discussion about strategy/balance/etc., not to mention the last few have been hilarious.
MangoTango, the SotG casts are already on the iTunes store. I highly recommend them!
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United States7166 Posts
this is more a request for a main topic of discussion, as it would probably be too long of a segment for the Q&A portion
@Question I'd love to hear a heated discussion on the current balance of ZvT and ZvP between these guests 
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This question is for everyone. It's a pretty general one but I haven't read a lot of theory or discussion about it. Can't wait for the cast!
@question: As a platinum level random player, I've found that my most difficult decision in any close game is when and if I should take a 3rd base, especially on maps where the 3rd is difficult to defend and especially as Protoss or Terran. It seems to be a fine line between making sure not to immediately lose and also making sure to keep a strong economy as your main gets low on resources. Is there a mental checklist or some general criteria you use to decide when to take your 3rd?
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It would be awesome if u can get Nony in there :D
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On June 22 2010 01:31 MangoTango wrote:
Is there a way for you to release these podcasts on itunes? I'd like to put it on my ipod to listen to while working. Although, come to think of it, that might not be a good idea. Laughing while handling dangerous chemicals might not be the best idea. Ah well, sacrifices must be made for Starcraft.
I believe you can add the RSS feed to your itunes.
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Well i guess ill ask 2 questions...
@Question Whos your favorite Jonas Brother?
@Question In a world where Mech isnt the most dominate strat vs zerg, how viable do you think Ghost are in tvz?
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Cant Wait!, Love this stuff, its like wow, and bam, and ya...
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@question: Do you think that, as the game gets more figured out and players start to have better mechanics, we will start to see queens used more frequently in regular army compositions?
After all, queens are very strong tanks (especially with transfusion), have somewhat decent dps and most importantly, they don't cost any gas, so you can spend more gas on upgrades and high tech units. Right now, the problem is that even top zerg players are pretty bad at constantly spreading creep and players aren't used to producing units from both hatcheries and larvae.
Do you think that Queens will be a strong addition to midgame and lategame zerg armies, or will the lack of mobility be too great of a disadvantage?
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Sorry have a bunch of questions but feel free to answer them or not.
@question: How do you feel the balance of Starcraft 2 is at this point? Would you want to have it released just as it is from a gameplay point of view (not talking about Battlenet 2.0) with no changes? Or do you feel that the maps, certain matchups are just too unbalanced? By unbalanced I mean whether it is too difficult for one race to triumph over another on a certain map from a practical sense, not that tanks do million points of damage.
@question: What is the viability of getting units like Carriers or Motherships at this point? So far, we have seen all Zerg tech used, especially Tier 3 units like the once forgotten Ultralisks, by Artosis especially. For Terran mech, we have scoured all the options, including Battlecruisers being used effectively with tanks by TLO who was on four base in the TLO vs Sen game EU vs ASIA showmatch on Lost Temple (if I am not mistaken, not sure of the Zerg player). But so far, we have not seen any sort of viable or stable build that uses Motherships or Carriers effectively in the pro circuit. Do you think that is an issue or somebody will find some use for it? Is a patch needed?
@question: How much would you want to bet that someone will make a Starcraft: BW remake on the Starcraft 2 engine? And people will play that instead of the original Brood War!
@question: This may not discuss the state of the game right now, but what would you think be the next step in the expansions of Starcraft 2 in terms of new units? Do you predict any new units to come out for Terran, Zerg or Protoss that will help deal with this or this or fulfill some hole in a race's arsenal? I personally feel that Dark Archons should come back into the game with their mind control. I still feel that mind control belongs to the Protoss.......
@question: Last question. I promise! What do you think of the campaign as far as you have seen or heard of? As epic as Brood War or even better?
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so hyped about this, finally another state of the game ep!
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@question
Is Day9 planning on picking a race? If yes, what it would most likely to be?
@question
In starcraft 2 the overall damage output of units is higher than in brood war. Do you think it's a good thing or a bad thing when talking about sc2 esports future? Because the fights are over much faster in sc2 than in bw.
@question
Is terran mech imba vs zerg? Even though it isnt impossible for zerg to win but it feels that using terran mech requires a lot less skill than the requirement to win against it.
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moar questionz! we'll dedicate the first part of the show to user questions! want a longer show? ask moar!
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Awesome! I'm really looking forward to this. Keep up the great work, JP.
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@question
Right now ZvZ is just going bane-ling. Do you think the metagame for this matchup will change with time or does blizzard need to step in?
@question
Do you think that the current maps are too different from the broodwar maps or are they perfectly fine? If something needs to be changed with them, what is it?
@question
Are archons still useless? How would you fix them.
@question
Does TLO (and other Z or random players) think that the ultralisk have founded its place or does it still need some work?
@question
Is skill cap much lower in sc2 and how will it affect its esports future?
@question
What do you miss the most from broodwar?
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@question Should the ladder's map pool rotate in player made maps that will eventually gain favor in leagues and tournaments to stay relevant? If yes, how should this be handled?
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@question what do you think of the trends of people changing races form sc1 to sc2? like terrens going to zerg idra deappolo artosis , and then you you have people chanigng from zerg to protoss any though on this and what race have you lot changed to or are favouring like day 9 who used to be a zerg player but it looks like he is favouring protoss more these days ?
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@question Day[9] / TLO,
What race do you guys think you will end up with? (I see TLO using Terran alot)
@question Artosis
What are your thoughts on SC2 in Korea? Is there alot of talk about it and what do you expect from Sc2? Will it last longer then Sc:Bw?
@question Artosis, TLO, Day[9]
With the release date getting closer and closer, any plans on trying to become a pro gamer? (as in on a house time, CJ, etc.)
@question Artosis, TLO, Day[9]
What are SC2's biggest flaws?
@question Artosis
Do you think pro gaming teams will have more trouble practicing / playing without LAN? Do you think they will be given the LAN edition of Starcraft 2?
@question Artosis, TLO, Day[9]
What do you think of the map pool? Do you think these maps are balanced? will we see these maps in proleague games?
@question Artosis, TLO, Day[9]
What do you think of Blizzard's property rights? (as in, there terms of usage, They own all property of your account, maps, etc)
@question TLO
What do you think about creative play? Do you it's more important to be creative or play very standard flawlessly? (practice the hell out of certain builds or create your own)
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Is there a reliable and easy way to find starcraft 2 build orders without analysing pro replays or dredging through hundreds of forum posts for new players? its hard to know which forum posts to trust and which to ignore as a new player, having a reliable source for this information would help people at my level improve much faster.
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On June 22 2010 09:00 Lucid777 wrote:
Is there a reliable and easy way to find starcraft 2 build orders without analysing pro replays or dredging through hundreds of forum posts for new players? its hard to know which forum posts to trust and which to ignore as a new player, having a reliable source for this information would help people at my level improve much faster.
Did you read the OP?
Welcome to TL, may I take your order? http://wiki.teamliquid.net/ has pretty decent build orders.
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I have to say at first I scanned over this and didn't think it was worth my time, but now during this drought this is like a treasure trove for my sc2 fix. Put this on and just play multitask trainer for hours. Also in the beginning I wasn't aware who the casters were and that really made me excited to listen to these.
Great content keep it coming.
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United States313 Posts
@Question: 3 months ago hyper aggressive play usually fueled off of one base was terrorizing the scene, and a new high ground mechanic was being accused of breaking the game. As Beta went down the community was questioning if the defensive strength of tanks was insurmountable, and a protoss who didn't early expand to match the zerg opponent was dead in the water. Has the strategy of SC2 Beta evolved faster or slower than you expected at the top level as well as the general community?
@Question: When SC2 releases there will no doubt be a large increase in the number of players. While it seems unlikely the masses of new players will have any immediate affect on high level strategy, what effects do you expect this sudden influx to have on battle.net, auto match making, the ladders, and even outside of the game such as the team liquid community and the many events hosted by the global starcraft community?
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@Question: People always refer to TLO as a very creative player, but I was wondering how he comes up with these unorthodox styles. Is it theory thought of before playing, goofing around while practicing/laddering or playing many games and noticing timing windows/weaknesses. TLO always has a refreshing take on all the races and I would like to know where these new perspectives come from.
Edit:Formatted to OP's preference
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Question: In regards to map balancing, what do you guys feel makes a map balanced? Do you feel it's possible to have variety in balanced maps, or do they all end up feeling the same? If that is the case, would you rather have a large selection of extremely similar, balanced maps, or sacrifice balance for a little bit of creativity?
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@Question: What are your thoughts on that fancy new "APM Technology" and hardware in general, in regards to SC2?
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@JP:
How was your trip? Did you miss TL?
@Artosis:
Funniest moment during stategy testing with IdrA?
@TLO:
Welche Trainingspartner sind Dir am liebsten und warum? Woran müsstest Du Deiner Meinung nach am ehesten arbeiten?
@Day[9]:
Will we see your girlfriend playing SC2? Was she the voice behind Chloey Perkins?
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Liquid`NonY June 21 2010 21:24. Posts 4036 PM Profile Blog Quote #
Artosis + Day[9] good combo
It will be even more fun if you join them...
EDIT: Sorry for doublepost.... too dumb to edit right
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@question
What maps from BW would you guys like to see "reinvented" in SC2 (and what would you change regarding the new features like smoke/watchtowers)?
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JP, I love the podcasts, keep up the good work.
@Question What is each participant of the show doing right now, while the beta is down, to keep up their StarCraft 2 skills? (If the podcast happens after the beta is re-launched, what did they do?)
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Thanks to everyone who has posted so far. I'll try to get everyone to stick around for 2 hours but I can't promise anything. If its starting to slow down, I'll call it a show though!
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@Question Group
As a new player, with little RTS experience, and coming from the WoW time-sink, how long should it take to reach a competitive (A non-cheesing Diamond player, I suppose?) level in Starcraft II?
@Question Group
I've found listening to new music during the beta break is something extremely fun to pass the time. What are some of the group's favorite bands at the moment or possibly some Pandora stations if that's your fancy?
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@ Question Group
90% of all sc2 talk has been about balances. Do you think balances should be geared toward the top level of play or for the majority of skill? Are there any points in any matchup where the imbalance comes more from the difficulty of execution with individual skill rather than the game?
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@Question Group
How do you see the community changing after release? Particularly in the west. Sc, if we are honest, is a niche game outside of Asia. As professionals and enthusiasts, how big an opportunity does sc2 provide you?
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@Question Group
What do you think about Activision making a pay2play system for MW3. Also what will this mean for sc2?
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Wow, i am so excited at this new podcast, the last one was so funny! its gonna hype me up as we get closer to the beta new phase. TY for bringing this to us
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@Question What do you think about the idea of sentries channeling the force field, with full mobility. So if the sentry dies the force field also falls.
@Question What are your feelings on carriers?
@Question Do you guys think it would help the game if the radius on all units were increased?
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Just bumping this thread because we need more good questions and I'm out off any :D I already asked a few but I'll try to think some later on if there will be time before the show
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On June 23 2010 10:56 Piski wrote:
Just bumping this thread because we need more good questions and I'm out off any :D I already asked a few but I'll try to think some later on if there will be time before the show
You rock!
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*bump*
@Question: If the guys had to delete one unit completely out of Starcraft 2, which one would it be and why?
@Question: What do the players think about the current total imbalance in unit diversity, namely the lack of pandabearguys?
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@ Question
what do you think about a high tier mutation upgrade for the queen to be able to join the frontlines to fill in the void of variaty of units on the zerg battlegrounds?
result example:
-same speed off and on creep as hydra's,
-spawn larva skill evolves to throw larva, larvas explode on impact, goo-ing over their enemies and blind a very small area for x amount of seconds -100 energy
-Transfusion energy becomes 100
-new looks
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@question
What changes to the Archon would you like to see, if any?
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@ Question
As a mapmaker, I wonder: What type of maps would you like to see made? Bigger, smaller, narrower, wider, easier to defend? Do you think some element is lacking in the official maps we have seen so far?
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@ Question
What do you think Battle net 2.0 will look like at Launch date? Will it drastically be different than what we saw in phase 1 ?
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@ Question
What things can the average person do to help promote and further the legitimacy of SC2 as a viable esport, especially in America?
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is it going to be streamed live?
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On June 24 2010 12:13 r3clay wrote:
is it going to be streamed live?
no, this is a recorded show.
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@question Do you think Blizzard will continue making weekly balance changes? If so how will this effect the meta game?
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On June 24 2010 12:24 Zed03 wrote:no, this is a recorded show.
but, he did say that he might try to stream it
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@question According to Blizzard's latest announcement, Battle.net 2.0 will be going into Open Beta on SC2's release day. What do you think (other than chat lan and crossrealm which has been established as "comming soon") does the service (battle.net 2.0) need to be ready for its own "release"?
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On June 24 2010 12:41 HaGuN wrote:
@question According to Blizzard's latest announcement, Battle.net 2.0 will be going into Open Beta on SC2's release day. What do you think (other than chat lan and crossrealm which has been established as "comming soon") does the service (battle.net 2.0) need to be ready for its own "release"?
...wut?
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Podcast recorded! Editing now. Uploaded soon.
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Awesome. Love listening to the cast at work, keep it up ^^
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Upload nao D:
I'm really looking forward to this episode!
Keep it up dude
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itmeJP United States. June 24 2010 14:14. Posts 273 PM Profile Quote #
Podcast recorded! Editing now. Uploaded soon.
Your "soon" or Blizzard "soon" ?
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On June 24 2010 14:32 Turbo.Tactics wrote:Show nested quote + itmeJP United States. June 24 2010 14:14. Posts 273 PM Profile Quote #
Podcast recorded! Editing now. Uploaded soon. Your "soon" or Blizzard "soon" ?
why would his soon, not be his soon?
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why would his soon, not be his soon?
Because beta withdrawal makes me feverishly sceptical towards everything that I used to love but now have to wait for >.<
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On June 24 2010 14:33 Dance.jhu wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2010 14:32 Turbo.Tactics wrote: itmeJP United States. June 24 2010 14:14. Posts 273 PM Profile Quote #
Podcast recorded! Editing now. Uploaded soon. Your "soon" or Blizzard "soon" ? why would his soon, not be his soon?
Because Blizzard owns the rights to all "soons" that are starcraft 2 related.
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"Soon" as two download links are up in the OP
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"Soon" as two download links are up in the OP
You just made my day sir!
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U better of asked my questions JP!!
jk i luv u
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We got about halfway through Page 3 and it was at like 1h30m so I started picking and choosing.
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Artosis clearly won that early first question argument. Z is seriously underpowered vs T mech. Z has to over play to have an even chance it's pretty sad.
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please get TLO and Artosis in the same shoutcasts more often... the contradicting opinions are hilarious :D
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ugh I wish I asked a question
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Almost every time a zerg question is asked Artosis and TLO has an opposite opinion.. Nice Podcast!!
Also tnx for answering my question about the ultraling although I just wanna say to artosis and TLO that ultras do have a range 1, and they can attack behind zerglings.. But still much appreciated and nice answers :D
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Omg omg omg State of the game is back *tears of joy* T_T
Dling right now!
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YAY you asked my ghost question
I bet you just forgot 2 ask them whos their favorite Jonas brother is....right?
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now wait.... are you counting ZERGLINGS as .5 supply? Because that's the only other "unit" that costs 1 supply
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Man... I was worried that you weren't getting to one of my questions so I was always checking the forum like "omg, they are still at this question... They will never get to mine!"
But on the contrary! You made me a very lucky nerd Sir :D
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On June 24 2010 16:47 Turbo.Tactics wrote:
Man... I was worried that you weren't getting to one of my questions so I was always checking the forum like "omg, they are still at this question... They will never get to mine!"
But on the contrary! You made me a very lucky nerd Sir :D
Yeah, next time I probably random them instead of going down the list. Sorry about that for those who I didn't ask.
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finally it's out. that was some super early promo (or at least it felt like forever xp)
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so slow and so long.
and not much substance (maybe it's just too slow that i didn't pick up on it)
2 hours too..
also this link doesn't allow u to navigate.
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2 hours too..
You say this as if that's a bad thing... The longer the better imo. It's 1 1/2 though
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On June 24 2010 17:24 waffling1 wrote:
so slow and so long.
and not much substance (maybe it's just too slow that i didn't pick up on it)
2 hours too..
also this link doesn't allow u to navigate.
right click, save as, dont just click. and yes, this was a little different then our previous shows.
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oh, am i getting the player popup that doesnt have a navigation bar b/c i have foxytunes installed?
does clicking it normally take you to the download page?
i guess it does. that's great news, that i don't have to wait an hour to start listening to the middle of it where i left off agian.
i'm not against length in and of itself. sorry for being a bit crude with the way i said it. i do value conciseness tho.
too much starcraft, not enough time yaknow? 
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YAY the episode is up, thx JP :D Listening...
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Great podcast Nice to see some of my questions got asked thanks. I'll make sure to ask more questions next time!
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On June 24 2010 17:27 Turbo.Tactics wrote:You say this as if that's a bad thing... The longer the better imo. It's 1 1/2 though
yea definately agree 1 1/2 hour with these players is awesome
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I find it absolutely hilarious how interviewers have such a hard time reacting to TLO's super short answers. Sometimes his answer is shorter than the question and the interviewer is never really prepared when he stops talking and you get those awkward silences. It seems like nobody is ever really sure that he's done talking either.
I realize that it's most likely because English isn't his first language and really going in depth with his answers may prove difficult, but I still can't help find it funny when his questions/interviews run really short and the interviewer is scrambling for ways to drag it out. I suppose I can't really blame them for that; if I had a chance to talk to TLO, I probably wouldn't want to waste it on 1 sentence answers either. I would want to draw out a real discussion with him.
One thing I DON'T like about these interviews is how one-sided they can be. A lot of times, the progamers will give an answer and it will just be instantly accepted as law, and the interviewers just aren't able or aren't willing to stick it to them and make them defend their claims. It seemed that JP and some of the contributors to this thread did try to spark a bit of actual discussion and debate, but none of the people being interviewed were really willing to just take a side.
I feel that on some of the questions, even where most people agreed, there should have been someone there to play Devil's Advocate to force them to really go in-depth with their views; Someone to put them on the defensive.
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Too much of Artosis whining about Terran mech. It is clear that he is still playing Brood War with the constant comparisons instead of thinking of it as a new game. Even Day[9] disagreed with him (and of course IdrA) on Desert Oasis not being soo terrible in favor of Terran mech, but he is Artosis and he (and IdrA) cant be wrong. Thats when I stopped listening ... (after about 15 minutes).
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On June 24 2010 20:55 Rabiator wrote:
Too much of Artosis whining about Terran mech. It is clear that he is still playing Brood War with the constant comparisons instead of thinking of it as a new game. Even Day[9] disagreed with him (and of course IdrA) on Desert Oasis not being soo terrible in favor of Terran mech, but he is Artosis and he (and IdrA) cant be wrong. Thats when I stopped listening ... (after about 15 minutes).
Wasn't it a little silly to skip the whole show just because you disagreed on one point?
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"Everyone's like 'FUCK SEAN' we hear from him daily, we don't need to hear from him!"
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Oh god Artosis really ticks me off, "Idra and I agrees on this" "Its the truth".
Are these two starcraft 2 gods already? I'm suprised they figured the game out already with how succesfull they've been during beta. /sarcasm on.
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Artosis def sounds like an elitest. I think a lot of their gripes are just too early to tell.. its not as black and white as they make it sound.
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On June 24 2010 21:05 Piski wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2010 20:55 Rabiator wrote:
Too much of Artosis whining about Terran mech. It is clear that he is still playing Brood War with the constant comparisons instead of thinking of it as a new game. Even Day[9] disagreed with him (and of course IdrA) on Desert Oasis not being soo terrible in favor of Terran mech, but he is Artosis and he (and IdrA) cant be wrong. Thats when I stopped listening ... (after about 15 minutes). Wasn't it a little silly to skip the whole show just because you disagreed on one point?
Not if my mood switches to something bad the instant Artosis starts. To which minute should I jump so I dont have to hear him again? It has kinda become a personal disliking for me now, because Artosis is using his credibility - mostly gained from commentating (and thus being unbiased) - to promote his (and IdrAs) personal and biased opinions of the race they have chosen to compete with and the matchups they have problems with. This "abuse" of his supposed neutrality is what makes me furious, because his arguments are always presented with the half-sentence "IdrA and I have tried everything" and this is too much arrogance for me. Especially after TLO has shown how to beat those imbalanced Terran mech units even before the tank nerf patch, it sounds silly for Artosis to continue his "nerf tanks" argument. He is simply stuck in BW and wishes to be able to kill tanks with Hydras or Zerglings. All I have to say to this is:
Dont bring a sword to a gunfight and expect to win.
Its his opinion and he is allowed to have it, but giving him a platform to spread this kind of probably wrong propaganda (I am choosing a different word from "whining" here) is not a good thing. Thus I cant stand to hear it anymore ... even after the beginning sounded soo promising.
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I cant really believe that you disagree with them considering they are playing on the most elite server most likely surrounded by pretty good players and they are experiencing these thor drops so scary That Sen opts for one hatch muta on a map that should be zerg macro favoured. Even day9 took a more serious tone as to what this was all about and never actually outright dismissed it but he will always advocate a neutral stance towards imbalance issues because he is that kind of player.
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Thanks JP it was a great podcast. Love this series.
I really liked the TvZ conversation between TLO and Artosis. It was very insightful, very respectful, and very engaging. I almost feel like there's an idea for a new show entirely based on that. Some sort of shorter-length debate show. Get one pro or commentator to represent either side of a major issue and let them duke it out in every way. As long as the moderator keeps it civil, it could be really interesting.
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![[image loading]](http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/4470/sotgjpop.png)
This is without any modification. Yes, State of the Game is JPop. >.>
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On June 24 2010 20:55 Rabiator wrote:
Too much of Artosis whining about Terran mech. It is clear that he is still playing Brood War with the constant comparisons instead of thinking of it as a new game. Even Day[9] disagreed with him (and of course IdrA) on Desert Oasis not being soo terrible in favor of Terran mech, but he is Artosis and he (and IdrA) cant be wrong. Thats when I stopped listening ... (after about 15 minutes).
I'm Listening now and man do i feel the same way. I'll just wait it out thought.
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There's a very interesting discussion going on about Z 5-6 base play vs. T mech strat @ around 16min mark...
Artosis says that its tough when you have 80 drones to build up a nice army....and I'd like to point out that perhaps at that point its a little excessive to be mining so ferociously? Why not send in 20 or so drones with your 1st push or something to free up supply and then come back with a much larger force? I really can't see how 60 drones don't still provide a healthy amount of income.
Tasteless stops making probes in the Day[9]vs.Tasteless showmatch precisely because that income and supply is to be used to fuel his strategy. Would the simple fix ZvTmech be to build less drones and use the free supply to provide a bigger army? A bigger army that successfully breaks mech would mean that you wouldn't need that insane income stream to keep on replenishing your army because your push would have put T at a severe disadvantage. Why not build more hatch in existing bases and build off of 4 base?
I'm not a Z player so I'd love some insight!
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I think it was a good episode. Well done JP and quests.
Oh and I really liked Enter the Dragon as well. Great map, would definitely play a SC2 remake.
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On June 24 2010 20:46 Sylvr wrote:
I find it absolutely hilarious how interviewers have such a hard time reacting to TLO's super short answers. Sometimes his answer is shorter than the question and the interviewer is never really prepared when he stops talking and you get those awkward silences. It seems like nobody is ever really sure that he's done talking either.
I realize that it's most likely because English isn't his first language and really going in depth with his answers may prove difficult, but I still can't help find it funny when his questions/interviews run really short and the interviewer is scrambling for ways to drag it out. I suppose I can't really blame them for that; if I had a chance to talk to TLO, I probably wouldn't want to waste it on 1 sentence answers either. I would want to draw out a real discussion with him.
I think part of the reason why it he was giving this extremely short answers (even shorter than usual), is that it was 5:30 AM over here when they did the interview
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if idra and artosis really think terran is imba, why dont they play terran to really highlight why its imbalanced?
edit 1: they should play terran and dominate all the tournaments so that the guys at blizzard can go make a nerf
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On June 25 2010 00:12 metaphoR wrote:
if idra and artosis really think terran is imba, why dont they play terran to really highlight why its imbalanced?
edit 1: they should play terran and dominate all the tournaments so that the guys at blizzard can go make a nerf
That would totally work if it was imbalanced. . .but it's not. >.> People just don't know how to beat it. Just like Day9 was saying, early in SC1 the Terran timing push that is so standard was really hard to beat.
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On June 25 2010 00:12 metaphoR wrote:
if idra and artosis really think terran is imba, why dont they play terran to really highlight why its imbalanced?
edit 1: they should play terran and dominate all the tournaments so that the guys at blizzard can go make a nerf
Guys, seriously. It's ok if Terran is overpowered or tanks are overpowered or whatever. It doesn't reflect poorly on people that are Terran. If Blizz wants to change Terran, they will. Then Terran will adapt. If they don't want to change Terran, they won't. Then Zerg players can "whine" all they want, but they'll have to adapt. We play the hand that's dealt us.
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On June 24 2010 23:48 MrHavix wrote:Tasteless stops making probes in the Day[9]vs.Tasteless showmatch precisely because that income and supply is to be used to fuel his strategy.
Actually, Tasteless stops making probes at 16-21 because he thinks 2 Probes per mineral patch is optimal. Even IF that was the case, I don't know why he doesn't make more Probes for his eventual expansion.
And yeah, I somewhat agree with the previous posters. Artosis went too far to push his beliefs that Terran mech is overpowered. While I didn't think he did it on purpose (I still have heaps of respect for Artosis), it did seem as if he was unintentionally taking advantage of TLO's poor English to push his opinion. You could tell TLO was the bigger man in that 'debate' when he just backed off because Artosis wasn't listening to anything TLO was saying. Same with Day[9], he was with TLO in that there were little to no imbalances, yet Artosis wouldn't hear it.
That said, it was a very friendly interview and what could have potentially been a fierce argument was kept professional. Good work on the podcast and I'll be tuning in every week (or however often you choose to do it).
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On June 25 2010 00:35 youngminii wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2010 23:48 MrHavix wrote:Tasteless stops making probes in the Day[9]vs.Tasteless showmatch precisely because that income and supply is to be used to fuel his strategy. Actually, Tasteless stops making probes at 16-21 because he thinks 2 Probes per mineral patch is optimal. Even IF that was the case, I don't know why he doesn't make more Probes for his eventual expansion. And yeah, I somewhat agree with the previous posters. Tasteless went too far to push his beliefs that Terran mech is overpowered. While I didn't think he did it on purpose (I still have heaps of respect for Tasteless), it did seem as if he was unintentionally taking advantage of TLO's poor English to push his opinion. You could tell TLO was the bigger man in that 'debate' when he just backed off because Tasteless wasn't listening to anything TLO was saying. Same with Day[9], he was with TLO in that there were little to no imbalances, yet Tasteless wouldn't hear it. That said, it was a very friendly interview and what could have potentially been a fierce argument was kept professional. Good work on the podcast and I'll be tuning in every week (or however often you choose to do it).
Just FYI, that was Artosis on the podcast, not Tasteless. Maybe just a typo, but important to note.
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Thanks for bringing it in mp3. I bring it to my gym, awesome stuff to listen to..
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On June 24 2010 23:48 MrHavix wrote:
Artosis says that its tough when you have 80 drones to build up a nice army....and I'd like to point out that perhaps at that point its a little excessive to be mining so ferociously? Why not send in 20 or so drones with your 1st push or something to free up supply and then come back with a much larger force? I really can't see how 60 drones don't still provide a healthy amount of income.
Well Artosis and IdrA are in love with their Drones and would never sacrifice them. Terrans sometimes do, but since our Zerg wiseguys have "tried everything" they probably also tried taking 20 Drones on an attack when they are maxed, right?
1. If you have a smaller army than an opponent you are bound to lose.
2. Maybe the whole point is not to allow the Terran to get a high number of tanks. This can probably only be accomplished with early harrassment, but Zerg seem to harrass only rarely and only when they have maxed armies to act as decoys.
3. What is good against Hydras? Tanks! What is good against Tanks? 1 Brood Lord! What kills Brood Lords? Vikings! What is a Viking totally crappy against? Hydras! So if you face a sieged up tank Terran you just need one Brood Lord to either force him to make Vikings which you can kill with your Hydras OR he unsieges and tries to advance and the tanks become crappy against Hydras OR he does nothing and lets the Brood Lord nibble away at the sieged tanks and have the tanks shoot their splash damage at the Broodlings and kill their own units.
Artosis argues that the tank smart fire prevents overkill. Sure that is a change compared to BW, but the splash damage still does friendly fire and kills their own units. That is actually a huge drawback to sieged tanks which doesnt get abused enough. One Brood Lord which spawns fighting units for free (unlike the Carrier where you need to pay for Interceptors) is enough to abuse it. If you lose it it wont be a big deal, but you probably killed more than its worth with it as either the cause of the damage or as simple bait for enemy forces. You can even keep a Brood Lord alive pretty easily (unless the Terran has enough Vikings to kill him in one volley) with a Queen or two. If he has enough Vikings to do that he should have much fewer ground forces though. Comparing BW and SC2 the siege tank has had its cost increased (25 more gas and 1 more food) and its attack damage reduced (70 to 50 after the last patch) and it still is not enough? Deactivating smart shooting will not solve the problem, because you simply position your tanks deeper and solve it that way. Think again on the possibilities of ZERG before asking for a nerf for the other side.
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No one noticed the genre of the mp3s? :D
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On June 25 2010 01:01 JonChamp wrote:
No one noticed the genre of the mp3s? :D
On June 24 2010 22:54 MythicalMage wrote:This is without any modification. Yes, State of the Game is JPop. >.>
XD
EDIT: Now that I think about it, it might be a joke on JP's part. JPop
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Wired how evry thing u said in EP5 came trough in the week afther the podcast.
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On June 24 2010 16:29 Keitzer wrote:
now wait.... are you counting ZERGLINGS as .5 supply? Because that's the only other "unit" that costs 1 supply
I noticed that as well.
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I definitely think changing the AI only for tanks is the wrong option. Making things act more like they did in broodwar is definitely a way to make an interesting and balanced game, but it's not the only way.
But, I definitely agree with Day9 on mech TvZ. The issue isn't so much balance as it is that it makes the match up pretty "dry" and boring to watch for spectators. I guess that's just my opinion, though.
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I so completely agree with TLO. And also, I really like Artosis, he's a funny guy, does alot for the community; but the way that he explains he's basically just saying that the reason terrans aren't winning left and right and winning all TvZs ever is that they're bad players who don't know how to properly play their race, which I find somewhat disrespectful.
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On June 22 2010 04:14 Midj wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2010 01:31 MangoTango wrote:
Is there a way for you to release these podcasts on itunes? I'd like to put it on my ipod to listen to while working. Although, come to think of it, that might not be a good idea. Laughing while handling dangerous chemicals might not be the best idea. Ah well, sacrifices must be made for Starcraft. I believe you can add the RSS feed to your itunes.
You can indeed, however the RSS currently only has up through episode 5. Any word on when it will be added, JP?
Thanks for another show. <3 these.
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Holy shit, Zerg have no 1 supply unit...I never noticed :|
-Thanks for answering 3 of my questions!! ^_^;;
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they have 2 0.5 supply units now though, baneling being only 0.5 supply is really nice in late game.
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On June 25 2010 02:27 numberThirtyOne wrote:Show nested quote +On June 22 2010 04:14 Midj wrote:On June 22 2010 01:31 MangoTango wrote:
Is there a way for you to release these podcasts on itunes? I'd like to put it on my ipod to listen to while working. Although, come to think of it, that might not be a good idea. Laughing while handling dangerous chemicals might not be the best idea. Ah well, sacrifices must be made for Starcraft. I believe you can add the RSS feed to your itunes. You can indeed, however the RSS currently only has up through episode 5. Any word on when it will be added, JP? Thanks for another show. <3 these.
I forgot to add it to the RSS feed last night. It is now added. I'm also glad SOMEONE finally noticed the JPop genre -- I've been doing that now for 2 years!
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another sweet podcast when beta is down? Like McDonalds! I'm LOVING it!
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Its really hard to listen to artosis discuss things with people. He gives his opinion and then if anyone disagrees with him he just brushes it aside, even if its the opinion of very good players like day9 and tlo. Also hearing that any mech terran who loses to a zerg is actually just a noob made me laugh, thats a pretty weak defense imo.
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it is indeed hard to hear, especially knowing that he isnt very good at SC2 because of those very opinions he has. this applies to more than just his temporary fixation on whatever is the new imbalance of the week.
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On June 25 2010 03:56 nemahsys wrote:
Its really hard to listen to artosis discuss things with people. He gives his opinion and then if anyone disagrees with him he just brushes it aside, even if its the opinion of very good players like day9 and tlo. Also hearing that any mech terran who loses to a zerg is actually just a noob made me laugh, thats a pretty weak defense imo.
Yeah, we could dedicate an entire thread on TL for an Artosis intervention but I don't think he'd even look at it.
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On June 24 2010 22:51 Takkara wrote:
Thanks JP it was a great podcast. Love this series.
I really liked the TvZ conversation between TLO and Artosis. It was very insightful, very respectful, and very engaging. I almost feel like there's an idea for a new show entirely based on that. Some sort of shorter-length debate show. Get one pro or commentator to represent either side of a major issue and let them duke it out in every way. As long as the moderator keeps it civil, it could be really interesting.
That's a positive suggestion indeed.
I liked the discussion too and was thrilled when I read the question here.
The only problem is that TLO and Artosis wasn't challenged more on their opinions. From Day9 and the interviewer.
When Artosis said TLO couldn't have an opinion on ZvT, since he wins 90% of the matchups on either side, I got so annoyed... If TLO can win with both, how can it be imbalanced? Unless he is playing worse opponents than Artosis.
It just proves that SOME can win. With the right mindset and strategy
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United States313 Posts
Great work as always, thanks for what you do JP, and welcome back hope vacation was good.
I noticed at the end of the podcast you said something to the effect of see you next week, are there plans for next week I didn't catch or was that more of an unconscious send off? =P
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When Artosis said TLO couldn't have an opinion on ZvT, since he wins 90% of the matchups on either side, I got so annoyed... If TLO can win with both, how can it be imbalanced? Unless he is playing worse opponents than Artosis.
He is saying that if your winrate is 90% of your games then the people you play against dont have optimal builds.
in addition to the the fact that you cant base your argument on winrate alone its about QUALITY of players that you strategise and play with.
TLO is good and a giant amongst european mice but the asian bumpersticker`s on artosis`s and Idras back is just the better feedback.
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On June 25 2010 05:10 Madkipz wrote:Show nested quote +When Artosis said TLO couldn't have an opinion on ZvT, since he wins 90% of the matchups on either side, I got so annoyed... If TLO can win with both, how can it be imbalanced? Unless he is playing worse opponents than Artosis. He is saying that if your winrate is 90% of your games then the people you play against dont have optimal builds. in addition to the the fact that you cant base your argument on winrate alone its about QUALITY of players that you strategise and play with. TLO is good and a giant amongst european mice but the asian bumpersticker`s on artosis`s and Idras back is just the better feedback.
Which is mostly true, but it's a poor trump card. Why bother coming to a podcast discussion if you can just whip out the "I play on Asia" trump card whenever someone disagrees with your opinion? I don't think that's exactly what Artosis was doing, and I think he was far more fair than that throughout the discussion.
TLO has a ton of knowledge about the game mechanics. I'd venture to guess he may be the most successful super-genius of SC2 abilities. Even if his mechanics aren't at a high enough level to dominate quite thoroughly, no one will beat him in understanding of the game. So it's a little rude to just dismiss him as not being able to comment on balance because his competition isn't high enough.
I think TLO did the most fair thing he could do which is to offer to play Idra and Artosis as Zerg against their Terran mech to show his strategies. I guess that way we both see new strategies get developed and they can settle their debate.
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On June 25 2010 05:17 Takkara wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2010 05:10 Madkipz wrote:When Artosis said TLO couldn't have an opinion on ZvT, since he wins 90% of the matchups on either side, I got so annoyed... If TLO can win with both, how can it be imbalanced? Unless he is playing worse opponents than Artosis. He is saying that if your winrate is 90% of your games then the people you play against dont have optimal builds. in addition to the the fact that you cant base your argument on winrate alone its about QUALITY of players that you strategise and play with. TLO is good and a giant amongst european mice but the asian bumpersticker`s on artosis`s and Idras back is just the better feedback. Which is mostly true, but it's a poor trump card. Why bother coming to a podcast discussion if you can just whip out the "I play on Asia" trump card whenever someone disagrees with your opinion? I don't think that's exactly what Artosis was doing, and I think he was far more fair than that throughout the discussion. TLO has a ton of knowledge about the game mechanics. I'd venture to guess he may be the most successful super-genius of SC2 abilities. Even if his mechanics aren't at a high enough level to dominate quite thoroughly, no one will beat him in understanding of the game. So it's a little rude to just dismiss him as not being able to comment on balance because his competition isn't high enough. I think TLO did the most fair thing he could do which is to offer to play Idra and Artosis as Zerg against their Terran mech to show his strategies. I guess that way we both see new strategies get developed and they can settle their debate.
Artosis made that comment for Desert Oasis only! He was talking about map balance. Talking about map balance when you 90% with both races on that map is plain silly.
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Artosis was completely right on that call. I think it's just the way he comes across that makes it seem really harsh. But yeah, in a balanced matchup you're winning 50% of the time. If you're winning 90% of the time, then clearly your opponents aren't good enough, and so balance is hard to talk about.
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On June 25 2010 05:36 kar1181 wrote:
Artosis was completely right on that call. I think it's just the way he comes across that makes it seem really harsh. But yeah, in a balanced matchup you're winning 50% of the time. If you're winning 90% of the time, then clearly your opponents aren't good enough, and so balance is hard to talk about.
This line of reasoning can be applied to top members of any ladder who have significantly higher than 50% win ratio. It's dangerously close to saying "You win too much so your opinion on balance is invalid." Or even, "You win way more than I win, so your opponents are too weak, and your opinion on balance is invalid." It's a non-starter. You can't have productive conversations if you want to play that card. It's not like TLO is a slouch and Artosis needs to dress him down. I think TLO's qualifications are pretty clear at this point. I think his opinions matter no matter what ladder he plays on. That doesn't mean he's always right, but he deserves a spot at the table, obviously.
I totally get where Artosis was going. I really understand what he's trying to say about the relative strength of Euro vs Asian ladder participants. But like some others have said, it was a bit of a rude way of putting it, is all.
I'm on record as saying that overall I thought their conversation was very productive and respectful. But like others have said, that one point missed a little bit.
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Artosis did go on a bit, but his points are correct and well argued.
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TLO : "If you nerf tanks it will make TvP really hard. It's pretty bad atm"
Artosis : "Well TvP was hard in BW"
Is he suggesting if a match up is skewed in BW, it's ok for it to be the same in SC2? If it was ok for something to be "hard" in BW, surely his ZvT woes are acceptable in SC2.
This 'me and idra' bs is so dumb. I wonder how balanced their conversations are, does Artosis just talk idra into submission there as well? I'm only 30 minutes in but I definitely feel Artosis just talks and talks, day9 and TLO didn't seem to have the motivation to argue his points.
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I think in due time even without balance changes good zergs will figure out a way to beat it. I think alot of the zergs are just mad they can't sit around and drone up and expect to win. I think just like any matchup if u just sit and let them do what they want they are gonna win. Perhaps people shouldn't play so passively.
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I was listening to this while playing WC3 map "Castle Fight" if anyone else happens to play it. And I kept hearing skype go off, so I'd alt tab only to realize that it was the podcast instead :S. this happened like 4 times
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On June 25 2010 05:44 Piy wrote:
Artosis did go on a bit, but his points are correct and well argued.
I'm sure there are a lot of valid points in what Artosis had to say, but I really don't think he argued them well-- most of his reasoning was 'Idra and I have talked about it a lot and we both agree that it's really hard'. And when someone actually tried to have a discussion with him, bring up counter arguments to his complaints he really just doesn't think to address them-- I mean, 'nerfing tanks would make TvP too hard' 'Well TvP is supposed to be hard'? Jeez.
I really liked the rest of the podcast (and a lot of artosis' comments!) but more often than not it felt like anyone trying to have a discussion with artosis was just arguing with a brick wall.
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How long do these episodes usually take to get up on itunes? going on a trip in 2 days and need something to do on the ride!
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On June 25 2010 14:07 thymus wrote:
How long do these episodes usually take to get up on itunes? going on a trip in 2 days and need something to do on the ride!
I am unsure. Can't you just download as an mp3 and import it to iTunes? 
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On June 25 2010 02:59 MonkeyKungFu wrote:
@ Rabiator
The tank nerf down to 50 dmg doesnt mean squat against zerg and only benefits terran.
Hydra and raoch die in the same amount of shots, but the siege tanks needs one more shot to die from friendly fire, some nerf lol. The tank AI does not allow you to send in lets say 1 zergling to create a time window for you to engage.
TBH, I dont find tanks itself the problem, its the synergy of the terran army that makes it extremely hard to break when you reach a certain point.
Also when they say the MU is fine, I disagree cause I think its just wrong when the only way to win against this "build" is to always attack where his army isn't and doing guerrilla warfare to dry terran out. If terran has a 150 army and takes out a zerg army og 200 only loosing 10 supply, something is wrong.
Another thing worth mentioning. I can only say this from my own experience, but when it comes to drones and expansions, zerg just needs more to win. The terran units are in general stronger and to be able to constantly produce enough units you need the eco to support it.
You raise a good point about the siege tanks killing each other in one less hit. Sadly that is appropriate only for assaults with Brood Lords, since a sufficient ground attack will deal a tiny amount so the 20 lost damage wont matter. The one thing where the reducxd damage does hurt the Terran to actually kill Zerg is the Roach ... when you take upgrades into account. Pre-nerf a 3 attack tank did 75 damage, so it would kill even a 3 defense Roach with 2 shots ( (75-4)*2 = 142 ) instead of 3. After the nerf you still need 3 shots even with 3 attack upgrades.
The synergy of the Terran army is what makes it awesome, but which also makes it hard to play AND which gives mech its achilles heel. A sieged tank without an aerial spotter is not performing at its maximum efficiency, so if the Zerg would go for air dominance (and I think either IdrA or Artosis demonstrated this in a game wayyy before the nerf) they can abuse the critical weakness of mech: its lack of air defense against armored (Corruptor and Brood Lord are both armored) flying units. You need to build LOTS of Vikings against a bunch of Corruptors, but you only need 2-3 Brood Lords to nibble away at a sieged mech army. Thors are more or less semi-mobile air defenses only and Marines squishy as hell and susceptible to Infestors. With these possibilities I fail to see how there is no solution to be found and especially how someone claims that there is none after just a few weeks of testing. It just devalues every opinion of Artosis (and IdrA), because I question their judgement with statements like these.
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Wow, I am SO glad this podcast exists. Great content as always. Keep it up JP!
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Put Dan, Sean, Dario and JP in the same room (this instance being skype call) and it really doesn't matter what the content is!
Thanks for another great show JP, can't wait for the seventh edition!
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My vote for Nony Idra and Jinro in the next one! I'd listen to pretty much every one of your guests for 3 hours straight though...
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I agree i could listen for hours
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This 'me and idra' bs is so dumb. I wonder how balanced their conversations are, does Artosis just talk idra into submission there as well? I'm only 30 minutes in but I definitely feel Artosis just talks and talks, day9 and TLO didn't seem to have the motivation to argue his points.
Probably because TLO got sick of talking to a brick wall and they just wanted to play nice, and you know, share the podcast a little.
Please don't invite Artosis onto the next podcast. There are other gamers just as good, infinitely less arrogant and far, far more respectful. Get Nony or something.
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Can we vote for Tasteless for the next cast?
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Artosis always brings up some good points, but his inability to listen to anyone else is so anoying
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Does WhiteRa speak english? If he can, it would be awsome to get him on the show. He is such a nice guy.
Also Tasteless would be great
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Seriously, the last two poscasts were so awesome. Could listen to those all day.
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Tasteless has declined the past two times I've reached out to him to come on the podcast. I do need some new blood though, I'll see what I can do.
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Naniwa would be fun I think.
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artosis brought up the fact that he'd often have 5 bases going and 80 drones leaving him only 120 food for army. do you really need that many bases/drones as zerg?
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Maybe demuslim could join the next one.
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NONY COME BACK! Also idra will be a cool addition and ummmm maybe Nazgul????
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Idra went mass roach/hydra vs mass colossi last I heard of him, and got totally raped. ( go see Idra vs White Ra). These guys are probably better players than most of us, but that doesnt mean they cant completely suck at strategy.
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Man this was great! really good stuff! Morrow would be nice to have on the show he got some Craaazy mirco/macro! so it would be hella nice to hear what he have to say
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Day9 losing it has me in tears, hahaha
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day9 and TLO were fantastic and hilarious in that cast. While Artosis is a great player, there were times when he would come off pretty pretentious. Like "Well it doesn't work for me so it can't work at all." "This strat totally rapes me so it must work against every other zerg." etc...
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Was there a reason that both artosis and TLO didn't know that ultralisks ARE currently range 1 instead of melee and they DO attack from behind a wall 1 zergling thick.
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On June 26 2010 04:18 itmeJP wrote:
Tasteless has declined the past two times I've reached out to him to come on the podcast. I do need some new blood though, I'll see what I can do.
I liked Cauthon when he was on.
TLO is good and a giant amongst european mice but the asian bumpersticker`s on artosis`s and Idras back is just the better feedback.
What about the 0 SC2 achievements bumpersticker?
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This was awesome. Although I do agree that Artosis comes across sort of like:
1) Asian server is best
2) Idra and I are really good
3) Idra and I play on Asian server
4) Idra and I have decided X is true
5) You are simply wrong if you don't agree that X is true.
(insert anything whatsoever for X)
Which makes his input in a multi-person interview kind of hard to listen to. TLO handled it the best way possible, ending the most painful exchange by simply saying they should play it out, though.
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Bring back Nony !
As for Zerg try some new blood coz the Artosis ''me and idra'' disc is getting old, we already listen to that bs over and over all around the place. By new blood i don't mean Idra coz i feel like it would be the same way around, ''Me and artosis'' LOL !
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On June 26 2010 10:33 mint_julep wrote:
More Jinro plz
Absolutely, Jinro is great when he is on the podcasts, and so is Cauthon. Bring them back if you can!
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great show, please keep doing these.
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artosis, the man of very few euphemisms.
I enjoyed the cast, dunno why everyone hates on artosis; he's just a very ... uhm confident person. But yes would really like to hear from Jinro in the near future
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"i dont wanna discuss that one again please" dont be silly artosis. ZVTmech is your favorite thing to talk about. lol at the challenge from TLO - i would LOVE to watch TLO's Z vs Idra's T.
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Tasteless should add some ''Me and Idra'' Tee shirts to the handsome nerd collection by the way i would definitely buy that !
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I too enjoy frozen vegetables.
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On June 26 2010 12:52 Anfere wrote:Tasteless should add some ''Me and Idra'' Tee shirts to the handsome nerd collection by the way i would definitely buy that !
Rofl thats such a good idea, I'd buy one aswell! Then I could randomly use this in discussions with people! (No I wouldn't)
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yyeeeesssss this pleases me greatly
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I now want to see a TLO vs Artosis show match ... mech vs zerg!
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On June 27 2010 02:16 jax1492 wrote:
I now want to see a TLO vs Artosis show match ... mech vs zerg!
I'd donate to see that
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Artosis was just bitching because he's Artosis. It doesn't make him a bad player. Everyone bitches about something. When we didn't have chat channels, the majority of us were bitching about that.
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I wonder why Tasteless have declined to come to this show :o he usually likes to talk about starcraft 2, hope he will change his mind
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I'll be the first post in a while to do this...
But thanks for bringing this podcast and collection of players for an informative and entertaining podcasts.
Now as for all the Artosis haters...
I've you don't like what he is saying then stop listening. I never got the sense of his attempt to dominate the discussion with arrogance. Simply stating what he and Idra do in the Asian servers are simply that. He isn't going to name some Silver level player that no nobody knows about and describe their strategies.
Artosis states his opinions. So do the other players. Yes some of the cast members are more vocal then others, but that doesn't mean one is more right or that they beleive they are more right. It's simply a discussion about a great game that is supposed to be "fun" for them and their listeners. If you want to have a serious "i am right and you are wrong" type of debate create your own podcast. Untill then just enjoy what they have provided us.
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@Question
I have a question about if u guys think the Siege tank is "overpowered". I mean they do 50 dmg per shot with quite a lot of AoE (with upgrades its even more). With like 10 tanks thats 500 dmg in an area that will demolish armies in less than seconds. Im just kinda curious since some of u guys dont believe in things being "overpowered". If u think its overpowered why? And if u dont think its overpowered why not? :D
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Its been explained, the AI on the siege tanks is amazing, they do not overkill meaning they will not shoot more then the exact amount they need to kill a unit, this means that when you have a couple of siege tanks the aoe will be dispersed at almost perfect levels making them so much more efficient then any other aoe unit, for example the colossus needs to be helped in order to do maximum damage cause it wont autotarget something else if 1 other colosus is already gonna kill that row.
Meaning, 10 colosi will focus down 1 row.
10 siege tanks will target several units destroying the entire army.
Sry for the crappy grammar
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We'll do another one of these the day or day after beta is announced so we can look at the patch notes.
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On July 03 2010 11:23 itmeJP wrote:
We'll do another one of these the day or day after beta is announced so we can look at the patch notes.
Awesome! You guys do a fantastic job, no matter what people say about Artosis.
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On June 27 2010 03:16 MythicalMage wrote:
Artosis was just bitching because he's Artosis. It doesn't make him a bad player. Everyone bitches about something. When we didn't have chat channels, the majority of us were bitching about that.
He isnt "just bitching", but rather declaring everyone who disagrees with him as invalid (without proof). What makes his "bitching" twice as bad is that he has two souls inside him; the competitive player (which he has been throughout the beta) can be as biased as he wants but the commentator (which the majority of his reputation comes from) should be neutral and balanced in his statements and opinions. Most people still "revere" him for the commentator part and thus the disappointment with the really biased statements is bigger than for a regular bitching individual.
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I agree with Artosis, the fact that units have a tendancy to make nice balls easy to AoE combined with the tanks AI make it too good in my opinion; but maybe it's fine... months of playing will slowly show some truth.
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Great episode. Wish you could have asked them more questions, and not let them linger on such silly topics. Having Day 9, TLO, and Artosis together to discuss Starcraft in general was pretty awesome. It seems like Artosis was getting bashed by TLO and Day 9 (LOL). Hope you can bring them back for another episode.
Keep up the good work.
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On July 03 2010 11:23 itmeJP wrote:
We'll do another one of these the day or day after beta is announced so we can look at the patch notes.
Just tell us when to start asking questions
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On July 03 2010 13:11 Rabiator wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2010 03:16 MythicalMage wrote:
Artosis was just bitching because he's Artosis. It doesn't make him a bad player. Everyone bitches about something. When we didn't have chat channels, the majority of us were bitching about that. He isnt "just bitching", but rather declaring everyone who disagrees with him as invalid (without proof). What makes his "bitching" twice as bad is that he has two souls inside him; the competitive player (which he has been throughout the beta) can be as biased as he wants but the commentator (which the majority of his reputation comes from) should be neutral and balanced in his statements and opinions. Most people still "revere" him for the commentator part and thus the disappointment with the really biased statements is bigger than for a regular bitching individual.
He's just complaining, because he sees an imbalance and thinks that his view is the right one. A lot of us do that on forums like this all the time. He was a long time BW player, so he knows or thinks he knows what's going on. And to a degree, or fully, it can be argued that he is right. Sure, he's making false declarations, but I think a lot of it is the fact that he is a respected community member, and he gets some authority, perhaps, even, from Blizzard. Or so he thinks. But this is all speculation.
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I thought Artosis made good points and I didn't personally see him as overbearing. I think you guys are overrating. I enjoyed the podcast.
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Starting to line up people for the next cast. I've started to lose the taste in my mouth. It's almost as if I'm... without it. Less taste or something.
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On July 06 2010 14:59 itmeJP wrote:
Starting to line up people for the next cast. I've started to lose the taste in my mouth. It's almost as if I'm... without it. Less taste or something.
Who you got so far? Also im sorry for your loss of taste....
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On July 06 2010 14:59 itmeJP wrote:
Starting to line up people for the next cast. I've started to lose the taste in my mouth. It's almost as if I'm... without it. Less taste or something.
Silly!
I'm looking forward to the next show--they always make the daily commute enjoyable. Keep up the good work!
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On July 06 2010 14:59 itmeJP wrote:
Starting to line up people for the next cast. I've started to lose the taste in my mouth. It's almost as if I'm... without it. Less taste or something.
sean plotted?
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On August 17 2010 02:47 Affluenza wrote:
Anymore podcasts?
Yeah what happened to this? It was very interesting.
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Yep I loved this to death, is very hard to laugh as much as I did to these... and especially now (again) with the T op talk would be just hilarious fun. Maybe also some new guests, would love to have one of these at least half centered around all the tournaments going on so I would get an overview of it all without having to read 100 boring pages of text and instead have hosts discussing them.
Miss it alot!!
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these podcasts are amazing, please make one again soon
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Make more! This podcast was great.
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Why isn't this thread updated more often? The cast itself is really really enjoyable
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
post above me and above him covered this brilliantly.
These podcasts are now being linked from 1 thread.., not separate threads individually.
enjoy!
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EPT![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/V6NtP.jpg)
