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On June 09 2010 15:28 prototype. wrote:
What? Who thought tanks sucked?
Cause most people who played BW saw that Zealots can charge, Drago-I mean stalkers can now blink next to your tanks and zerg could throw endless number of 75 mineral 25 gas 1 supply units with 145 hp at your tank line.
And to top it off they were more expensive and took more supply.
The big thing with the most recent patches is that zerg can no longer throw a stupid amount of roaches at you.
As for mech vs p. I dunno its not even release yet, would give it 6 months and see what happens, provided blizzard doesn't do anything drastic.
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On June 09 2010 14:50 zhul4nder wrote:
I don't see why people say that psi storm is weaker now than it was in sc1. Since the units bunch up like no other in sc2 compared to sc1, wouldn't it mean that sc2 would have a stronger psi storm?
Radius is reduced and it does significantly less damage compared to BW whereas units have noticeably more health than in BW.
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and you can cast it easier and aim it easier and units clump up more. its still very strong.
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United States47024 Posts
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Storm on its own seems weak, but if you actually combine it with the rest of your army it is still quite good. The fact you force your opponent to move out of it stops their dps on your units. Also with the upgrade being able to teleport a HT in and using a storm as soon as he is done is quite amazing for defending an expansion until your army gets there to clean it up.
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The few times I got completely destroyed by a protoss as terran they always had storms. I don't buy into arguments that it is weak.
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On June 09 2010 14:52 love1another wrote:
It only does 80 damage. Which is < than hydra hp, and only 20 more than marine hp, whereas in BW, storm did almost 3x marine hp and 1.5x hydra hp.
Yeah dont know why they changed that. Its easy to micro out of and the Protoss HT is useless for the next 5 minutes of the game after it casts(one of the reasons they decreased merge time on the archons).
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On June 09 2010 15:28 prototype. wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2010 15:16 aznhockeyboy16 wrote:
It's like how everyone thought tanks sucked at the beginning. The stats are worse, the cost to get it is more, and although the game has changed to make it still viable, there are other options available to a player who wants the I'm gonna crush large swaths of troops simultaneously effect. What? Who thought tanks sucked?
Everyone. In the beginning in beta.
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On June 09 2010 18:58 LunarC wrote:I made a custom map testing my suggested changes to Psionic Storm. DPS is very low, but the increased radius makes up for it. It works rather beautifully and feels more like a Starcraft Brood War Psionic Storm: very high damage but very much dodgeable. Perhaps it lasts a bit too long. Maybe exactly 100 damage over 6 seconds at 2 radius would be more appropriate. In any case, the exact numbers might have to be ironed out, but I think a stronger storm with lower dps would benefit the game micro-wise. Original Suggestion: + Show Spoiler +Storm does 80 over 4 sec. That's 20 dps. It should be more along the lines of 110 over 8 seconds, in packets of 10 damage in a radius of 2 or 2.5. That's 13.75 dps. With these stats, it would take 4 seconds to kill a marine and 6 seconds to kill a Hydralisk.
Your suggestion would make me stop using storm. If I have templar (every pvt/pvz), I have zealots as the basis for my army. Its already requires alot care to not catch my zealots, thanks to freaking slow templar, low range, and fast zealots + charge. Makes for a bad combination. Your suggestion makes this worse because people will micro backwards out of storm, and storm will linger long enough for your army to run through it.
I like storm how it is now. I'd like it to be easier to storm the back half of the bioblobs easier with either a faster movement speed on the templar, or more range, but it is functional right now. It last long enough to chase people into running (which means not attacking) gives zealots time to close, and does enough damage to justify using.
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the only problem with storm is that colossus is so good.
the spell is slightly better than it's broodwar counterpart because of the increased pathing/grouping and also smart-casting!
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Also because of how the engine works and clumps armies up alot more, having that kind of damage would just be silly balance wise.
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Colossus are too easily countered, I've had games where I send out 4-5 colossus to support my main army and I get a bunch of vikings thrown at me, colossus all bite the dust despite getting my stalkers and sentries to focus them down.
So, cheeky tech switch to HT's, no longer a problem.
The intention of HT's and Colossus' are to be used as support units, I mean, if Colossus are so good, why not make an army out of only Colossus? Same with HT, they're not supposed to insta-pwn an army, they soften the army up so your gateway units can deal with them more effectively.
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Storms are only bad if you use them incorrectly. In my opinion, using them like in Brood War is using them incorrectly. They have different attributes, and thus should not be treated the same.
Why do boats suck so much compared to cars? Seriously, they should enclose you, put in a better engine, better seats, and 4 wheels. That would make boats so much better.
Boats suck, for srsly.
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i think that storm is not very underpowerd, but needs a little DMG boost - 95dmg would be good
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On June 09 2010 14:52 love1another wrote:
It only does 80 damage. Which is < than hydra hp, and only 20 more than marine hp, whereas in BW, storm did almost 3x marine hp and 1.5x hydra hp.
Uh, 80 dmg = hydra hp. It's just the regen of 1 hp.
And it's 25 more than a marine, not 20.
Also hydras can't storm dodge like they could in SC1 cuz they are so dabmn slow offcreep (they can do it fine on creep).
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A major difference between bw storm and sc2 storm is that you can upgrade your HT's to be able to storm twice directly after spawning. In bw you didn't upgrade "Khaydarin something"(+ 100? energy) since you never rarely had time or got something out of waiting for the HT's to charge up to over 150 to storm.
So pvx lategame in sc2 is 2 storms per HT which makes them stronger than the ones in BW.
Just watch out for Emps!
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I've said this before; it is over nerfed.
A solution to the current storm problem would make them overlap, and then I think they would be just as good as starcraft 1 storm.
On another note; why don't people pull templar back that have no energy to chill in a corner of their base or something so that they can regain energy instead of them getting killed in battle? Its like using 150 gas for 80 damage if you only get one storm out of it, and they get picked off ALOT.
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the units seem quicker and especially larger and can avoid things more easily. and also the fact that air units dont stack any longer makes storm and archons much less viable against zerg.
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I think a reason why storm shouldnt be buffed too hard is because of the warpgate. Say your are in a bad spot and you need somethings right now, you can warp HTs almost on the battlefield and storm immediately (with the upgrade). This is really powerfull compared to the sc1 HT.
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Calgary25996 Posts
Is this really your question? "Why is something that does less damage weaker?" It's a self-answering question.
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EPT
