Since kona is probably going to stream a Chinese one, I think I'll find a Korean one and stream it for anyone who wants GEEEGEEEEEE!!! http://www.livestream.com/mystlord
On July 09 2009 14:58 Grobyc wrote: Ugh I'm considering staying up till 2am to watch this. The matchups looks pretty epic, but I have to get up at like 7:30 in the morning T__T
On July 09 2009 14:58 Grobyc wrote: Ugh I'm considering staying up till 2am to watch this. The matchups looks pretty epic, but I have to get up at like 7:30 in the morning T__T
you only live once!!!
mmm yeah but it'll mess up my sleep pattern for my driving test on friday probably. Also, I can just watch the VODs after work
On July 09 2009 15:25 MrHoon wrote: Kwanro needs to learn how to late-game macro first seriously
To be fair, Kwanro has gotten a lot better at this lately, his improvement has largely stemmed from him being able to win games when they last longer than 10 minutes, but he does have a long way to go before his late game ZvT can keep up with Flash imo.
On July 09 2009 14:58 Grobyc wrote: Ugh I'm considering staying up till 2am to watch this. The matchups looks pretty epic, but I have to get up at like 7:30 in the morning T__T
you only live once!!!
mmm yeah but it'll mess up my sleep pattern for my driving test on friday probably. Also, I can just watch the VODs after work
although i root for bisu, i seriously doubt that he will win a bo3 vs fantasy. fantasy is the strongest tvp atm and pvt is bisus weakest matchup. and fantasy always shines in series play. anyway, its gonna be a hell of a match.
another very interesting game will be flash vs kwanro. flash has been collapsing lately and kwanro has improved a lot, but i still think if flash can survive the first 10-15 minutes than he is clearly at an advantage.
I actually have a bad feeling about the Zero/Pure game, this just feels to me like one of the games where Zero will randomly play like crap. Hoping to be wrong, of course.
Piano pushing out with a sizable amount of vultures, taking out Canata's tank. He could do a lot of damage with these vultures depending on what Canata has. SHOW US!!
forgg after winning MSL didn't do well and showed a sad side a lot.. but he is back to conquer this time, breaking through the ro32~
jaedong - recognized as the best zerg lately, known for repaying people by defeating them twice, thrice more if they beat him in the ro32, he had to play Group F of great players~ at least the finals match was against a new player (movie). let's take care of this easily~
Flash doesn't block his ramp and now he has Zerglings on his front. Thankfully, Kwanro is stupid and tries to attack the rines up the ramp so Flash can fend it off.
More lings get in and snipe a medic and a SCV building an engineering bay, plus a few rines. That seems to be it though. Flash's micro is doing a fair job otherwise.
Kwanro almost takes down the bunker at the front with his links but fails. Kwanro going 2 hatch LURKER!
Realistically, there is no reason to believe Flash is going to win this series. It's not impossible, but the likelihood of him winning has to be less than 20% at this point. Will four more days of practice be enough for him to salvage his TvZ?
On July 09 2009 19:29 writer22816 wrote: I swear Kwanro cheeses like every game -.-
Wow, it was 12hatch. Every aggressive build is cheese nowadays, eh? Like he just couldn't have predicted Flash being too greedy, right?
I agree. You need to punish greedy builds or then there would be no reason not to be greedy everygame.
And how was Flash greedy? I didnt pay much attention in the beggining, but it seemed like he was playing standart. And Kwanro had no drones. 2 hatch lurk and so many lings. So yeah, it was cheesy.
On July 09 2009 19:29 writer22816 wrote: I swear Kwanro cheeses like every game -.-
Wow, it was 12hatch. Every aggressive build is cheese nowadays, eh? Like he just couldn't have predicted Flash being too greedy, right?
vouch. i really dont get why the fuck flash doesnt stop being greedy. he is so great lategame - if he can get there from a rather safe start his chances to win are still great, no need to risk losing about every 4th game just to get a slight advantage in the other 3, an advantage that he doesnt need against most opponents.
On July 09 2009 19:37 darktreb wrote: Realistically, there is no reason to believe Flash is going to win this series. It's not impossible, but the likelihood of him winning has to be less than 20% at this point. Will four more days of practice be enough for him to salvage his TvZ?
On July 09 2009 19:29 writer22816 wrote: I swear Kwanro cheeses like every game -.-
Wow, it was 12hatch. Every aggressive build is cheese nowadays, eh? Like he just couldn't have predicted Flash being too greedy, right?
Flash lost, therefore it must have been cheese. Kwanro clearly violated the NR15 rule which is an understood agreement between all progamers except boxer bc he is genius. But for anyone else, NR 15.
man its pretty sweet for people like me that are only staying up for ZerO/Pure and Bisu/Fantasy that every single one of these other games has been over so quickly
i was so damn worried about Canata playing a TvT that I almost didnt stay up tonight
On July 09 2009 19:29 writer22816 wrote: I swear Kwanro cheeses like every game -.-
Wow, it was 12hatch. Every aggressive build is cheese nowadays, eh? Like he just couldn't have predicted Flash being too greedy, right?
2 hatch lurkers is cheese. Making a lot of speedlings is cheese.
This is just what I'm talking about. So FE -> 4 gate speedlot rush is cheese? 4rax sunken bust after FE is cheese, fantasy build is cheese, and vulture runby is cheese? Since when were all aggressive builds cheese, it was after a fast expand. Oh yes, and 2h lurker definitely isn't cheese, and you can get lots of speedlings without it affecting your economy too much because you can skip sunkens alltogether.
On July 09 2009 19:29 writer22816 wrote: I swear Kwanro cheeses like every game -.-
Wow, it was 12hatch. Every aggressive build is cheese nowadays, eh? Like he just couldn't have predicted Flash being too greedy, right?
2 hatch lurkers is cheese. Making a lot of speedlings is cheese.
This is just what I'm talking about. So FE -> 4 gate speedlot rush is cheese? 4rax sunken bust after FE is cheese, fantasy build is cheese, and vulture runby is cheese? Since when were all aggressive builds cheese, it was after a fast expand. Oh yes, and 2h lurker definitely isn't cheese, and you can get lots of speedlings without it affecting your economy too much because you can skip sunkens alltogether.
Pure sneaks 2 dts into zeros third, but cant get the sunken there. has to back off. in the meantime, zeros mutas are having a fieldday behind pure's nat. taking out loads of probes. corsairs finally drive em off. DTs at zero's third seem to have done some damage, one DT has 4 kills. but it's driven away by lings.
On July 09 2009 19:37 darktreb wrote: Realistically, there is no reason to believe Flash is going to win this series. It's not impossible, but the likelihood of him winning has to be less than 20% at this point. Will four more days of practice be enough for him to salvage his TvZ?
lol?
I mean, I'm a Flash fan. I'm a BIG Flash fan. He's my favorite player (other than Savior but that's not really relevant anymore sadly). But how many more games does he have to lose to Zergs before we all acknowledge that right now, he is LOST in TvZ. His style is getting countered in just every which way by 2 Hatch builds. He's lost to Yarnc, JD, Calm, and Kwanro in like 5 minutes each game. He's about to lose to Effort tomorrow (say what you what about Kwanro, Flash is DEFINITELY an underdog against Effort).
What else does it take before Flash stops getting leeway for being Flash? Yes his opponents have been top notch but this is FLASH. If he manages to lose to TheZerg in PL and this series to Kwanro, can we all finally agree that his TvZ is completely screwed at the moment and that for the first time in his career since Carriers, Flash is straight up mediocre, no scratch that, BAD, at a matchup in SC?
I mean, his last four losses against Zerg have been arguably like the four ugliest ZvT dominations in the last two weeks. You KNOW he won't cheese (standard Bunker rush at most). You KNOW he won't play a 1-base strat. Whether he goes mech or bio you KNOW he's going to have two bases and potentially too few units to defend an all-in.
Flash was born to SC. By all rights, he should already have been the best SC player in the history of the world. Yes, a lot of things haven't gone his way, but he's still younger right now than the youngest gamer not named Lee YoungHo to ever win a StarLeague.
But his style needs reinventing, or at least some reworking. Let's face the facts here - would any of us have believed after his GSI and OSL explosion that now, nearly 1 1/2 years later, he'd be one loss away from being guaranteed to not even have made another StarLeague final?
On July 09 2009 19:47 GTR wrote: In other news: Davichi are disbanding? Adieu Special on MNet
What??? Why?
well they have an outdoor stage. they seem to be going last. i'm saddened.
but i wouldn't be surprised if it was a stunt pulled by Mnet due to Davichi being owned by Mnet. 'Adieu' may be also be a word badly used by the Koreans which I am not aware of.
midmap skirmish again at lower ramp, but Zero has a lot of units. lurker/hydra/ling., stilla pack of mutas in play and they actually manage to take out almost every corsair. Pure needs goons imo.. he almost takes out zero's 4th but for some reason backs his zeals off the last second (a building hatch tho). Remains of pure's army gets trapped and killed at zero's third
Zero trying to secure the southern ramp for his 4th base. the 4th is up and Pure can't break the ramp, so mission successful so far. Pure taking his third at top right
On July 09 2009 19:47 GTR wrote: In other news: Davichi are disbanding? Adieu Special on MNet
What??? Why?
well they have an outdoor stage. they seem to be going last. i'm saddened.
but i wouldn't be surprised if it was a stunt pulled by Mnet due to Davichi being owned by Mnet. 'Adieu' may be also be a word badly used by the Koreans which I am not aware of.
Wait, adieu special could just mean it's their last performance promoting their recent album. Unless you read that news elsewhere ;o
In the meantime, zero is taking bottom right as his 5h, while moving 2 overlords to the same location. Lurker drop? Obs not showing anything more there. Zero has some serious macro set up right now, no Queens to be seen yet though
On July 09 2009 19:47 GTR wrote: In other news: Davichi are disbanding? Adieu Special on MNet
What??? Why?
well they have an outdoor stage. they seem to be going last. i'm saddened.
but i wouldn't be surprised if it was a stunt pulled by Mnet due to Davichi being owned by Mnet. 'Adieu' may be also be a word badly used by the Koreans which I am not aware of.
Wait, adieu special could just mean it's their last performance promoting their recent album. Unless you read that news elsewhere ;o
ZerO's losing a lot of units to storms, but at the shot of Pure's main, he had a very, very pathetic saturation Zero's economy is booming on the other hand.
Pure's ball moving once more onto the southern ramp. Gets a few good storms + dragoon shots off, thinning lurker numbers. Zero has a BIG army behind though and one queen is out and chilling now
Zero now charging headfirst into Pure's army, lots and lots of stuff dying, mainly Zero's. Pure is low on zealots now, but has a big ball of goons, archs and HTs. If he just reinforces with some zeals, he's good to go again.
Pure not even considering to move around, he's hellbent on breaking the southern ramp. Lots of lurkers up there though, don't think it's gonna work out. Think Pure is starting to realize this too. In the meantime, 2 groups of lings take out Pure's building fourth at top center.
Zero has this 100%. The economy difference is already pretty big. Zero on 5 bases, with hive tech coming. Pure not doing anything with his army really.
biiiiiiiig ball of hydralurk moving in the south. Zero is definately in the better place atm. Taking the center :O ballsy. Pure isn't gonna allow that and comes charging into the center. ... into 12 lurkers. Loses a lot of zeals before the battle's even begun. a NICE batch of storm takes out almost anything and everything. DA still around and Pure is pushing that center. Zero now reinforcing with a TON of lings. Pure's storms are good but not many enough. He gets driven off from the center.
DOOM DROP ON MAIN. mostly lings and lurkers. Pure doesn't have any goons and needs to use zeals and HTs to clear this. Not gonna be pretty. Pure loses tons of stuff and GGs
Well Pure just seemed utterly confused. He kept assaulting southern ramp a couple of times with the classic protoss ball, but didn't get shit done. Zero could just macro off of 4-->5 bases and laugh his way to victory with mass lings and hydralurk support
GG, haha Zero got really lucky for the games he had to practice for: Pure vs Zero on Heartbreak in PL Bisu vs Zero on Heartbreak In OSL PUre vs Zero on heartbreak MSL
That was pure rape though, pure never seemed to have a chance at all, and the balance in this map is switching more towards Zerg it seems with defensive lurker builds to split the map while preventing toss from getting 4th and 5th.
On July 09 2009 20:04 samachking wrote: GG, haha Zero got really lucky for the games he had to practice for: Pure vs Zero on Heartbreak in PL Bisu vs Zero on Heartbreak In OSL PUre vs Zero on heartbreak MSL
That was pure rape though, pure never seemed to have a chance at all, and the balance in this map is switching more towards Zerg it seems with defensive lurker builds to split the map while preventing toss from getting 4th and 5th.
On July 09 2009 20:05 udgnim wrote: got to like Zero for making 1 queen for metagame purposes
I thought that was damn smart. Pure basically made a dark archon for nothing.
Zero was kind of fucking around at the end though. Didn't even bother with the defiler mound. And he let Pure rape his army, before he showed gazillion cracklings in front of his base.
Well here we go then. Bisu vs Fantasy on Byzantium 3. Bisu bottom left. Fantasy bottom right. Standard opening from both players. gas at normal timings. Fantasy sending out quite an early scv scout.
edit: Fantasy has 4 marines, tank just started building. Microes well and Bisu backs off safely. Range researching back at home for mr bisu. no storkesque messups there. Bisu starting his nat nexus. Fantasy moving out with first tanks, marines and 2 scvs.
Fantasy is being pretty bold with his first force, pushes to Bisu's outer ramp before backing off. Bisu's nexus completing while Fantasy recently started his nat CC. Bisu slightly ahead I'd say.
quick starport for fantasy. no control tower yet. Wraith or dropship play? Bisu is so far staying at home with his goons, getting ready for DT shinanagans
Bisu drops the DTs at fantasy's nat, doing a good amount of damage actually. The shuttle makes it back safely. Fantasy moves scvs to main while planting mines around natural. if it wasn't for the shuttle, it'd be nice to see a zealot bomb there once scvs return. DROPSHIP OUT Fantasy going for vulture play. Almost sneaks into bisu's nat also, but gets denied by well placed pylons and dragoons. Dropship loaded up going the southern way. Dragoons in place! The dropship gets sniped and 2 vultures make it out but die instantly. Bisu takes a card from BeSt's little box and starts 2 base arbs.
Haha, Bisu has fantasy's play memorized, he even knew dship timing and knows he pushes out when he drops and establishes position. Bisu is in good shape right now, fantasy seems to be misrallying?
Fantasy gets a few vultures inside Bisu'a main and starts taking out probes, but the buildings are placed very tightly and only 3-4 die before the vultures are taken out. Fantasy now moving out, probably not looking to push, but rather set up his 3rd.
new dropship out. Bisu has map control atm, almost no random mines around. A couple of vults find bisu's third while going up, takes out building probe but gets denied by pylons and goons.
Bisu checking the map for hidden expos even, so far both playing straight up and well. Bisu barely defending fantasy's vult harass at the last second each time.
Bisu looking to be aggressive, moves up to Fantasy's third with a goon heavy army but there's a good number of zealots following. 2 stasies go off and Fantasy is spread too thin. Bisu is ROLLING THE THIRD
Lol, Bisu just proceeds to roll 1 shop fantasy, see, just get a bunch of goons on the map, defend Fantasy's vults and you won the game, congrats Protoss,you now know how to defeat fantasy .
Bisu moving into fantasy's nat while stasising a good amount of tanks. Taking out nearly EVERY SCV while reinforcing constantly. no way fantasy can take this back. Both armory's are placed at the nat and they're taken out as well. Fantasy does drop 2 tanks at bisu's fresh base. Not gonna matter though
Crazy timings from Bisu. Guess he did his homework on Fantasys timings. Dt dropping, defending drops, and attacking right before fantasys vultures pop.
On July 09 2009 20:35 MaGic~PhiL wrote: I thought fantasy could do better.. no matter how good bisu played.. that was a weak weak performance by fantasy..
of course, he cant kick Bisu out of his last SL, can he?
On July 09 2009 20:34 Kentor wrote: omgggg bisu playing the perfect game
He played ~a perfect game against fantasy's passive style...
lol? That wasn't passive at all. Fantasy kept harrassing with vults and dropships. It was just that bisu defended flawlessly so Fantasy had very few vults in his army.
Fantasy never plays that horrible. Something is either seriously wrong with him or something in his personal life, he's sick or something got arranged for Bisu to win. There is no way that Fantasy could play that bad against Bisu after the last time the played against each other.
On July 09 2009 20:34 NovaTheFeared wrote: If you build 4 cc before your 4th fac and spend half the units your 3 facs make on harass, you're begging to get steamrolled like that.
It's almost like lately Flash wants to be Fantasy and Fantasy wants to be Flash.
On July 09 2009 20:34 Kentor wrote: omgggg bisu playing the perfect game
He played ~a perfect game against fantasy's passive style...
lol? That wasn't passive at all. Fantasy kept harrassing with vults and dropships. It was just that bisu defended flawlessly so Fantasy had very few vults in his army.
Fine, poor phrasing from me. He kept harassing very well, but he made no attempt what so ever to threaten any of bisu's bases with a push. But yeah, you're right and I'm wrong, harassing isn't passive, it's just... different.
Fantasy played really bad. Like really bad. Yes, Bisu deflected most of the harass, but still, I would have expected fantasy to have more units.
Instead of harassing and macroing out of 3 bases, fantasy chose to take another expansion. 4 bases while still on 4 factories doesn't really work good against Bisu's macro.
On July 09 2009 20:37 OSWater wrote: Fantasy never plays that horrible. Something is either seriously wrong with him or something in his personal life, he's sick or something got arranged for Bisu to win. There is no way that Fantasy could play that bad against Bisu after the last time the played against each other.
ok, now I think you're a bit over the top He played a harass-reliant style to buy time for setting up a strong economy, upgrades and macro but since his harass failed, Bisu came in at a timing before Fantasy's play evolved into any quantities of units.
whoa, pretty rare misplay from fantasy. he read bisu totally wrong, staying on so few factories and making a fourth cc vs bisu's 2 gas arbiter 12gate attack
bisu did a nice job defending the harass, but yeah fantasy misread the situation completely. that doesnt happen often!
also note that protoss don't usually do that 2base arbiter 12gate attack because any sorta 3base macro timing will defend it pretty easily. great choice against what fantasy did that game though
uhm, these guys play each other so much that games like this (even when one sided) mean way less than say stork vs fantasy or bisu vs flash. just like the 3-0 of bisu last time didn't mean a whole lot. jaedong vs forgg same story, etc
I have never seen such good defence by anyone ever in PvT. I guess it have helped practising so much with Fantasy knowing his timings and attack patterns because Bisu moved around his forces at the perfect places cosntantly.
On July 09 2009 20:35 MaGic~PhiL wrote: I thought fantasy could do better.. no matter how good bisu played.. that was a weak weak performance by fantasy..
of course, he cant kick Bisu out of his last SL, can he?
So I know this is the MSL, but I'm a little confused about the OSL. What has to happen for Bisu to stay in the OSL, and why? I heard it had something to do with go-go, but....
On July 09 2009 20:41 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: also note that protoss don't usually do that 2base arbiter 12gate attack because any sorta 3base macro timing will defend it pretty easily. great choice against what fantasy did that game though
Well its not like he did some sort of 2base all in, he was on 4 bases and about to take a 5th when he attacked... And he did see Fantasy taking a 4th and moving tanks up before he attacked with his obser.
On July 09 2009 20:56 latent wrote: So I know this is the MSL, but I'm a little confused about the OSL. What has to happen for Bisu to stay in the OSL, and why? I heard it had something to do with go-go, but....
If Hwasin wins against go.go Bisu can keep himself in the OSL with a tie break win.
On July 09 2009 20:56 latent wrote: So I know this is the MSL, but I'm a little confused about the OSL. What has to happen for Bisu to stay in the OSL, and why? I heard it had something to do with go-go, but....
On July 09 2009 20:41 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: also note that protoss don't usually do that 2base arbiter 12gate attack because any sorta 3base macro timing will defend it pretty easily. great choice against what fantasy did that game though
Well its not like he did some sort of 2base all in, he was on 4 bases and about to take a 5th when he attacked... And he did see Fantasy taking a 4th and moving tanks up before he attacked with his obser.
Yeah I don't see Bisu as doing anything unusually aggressive with his build order... more like he played standard and noticed a weakness in Fantasy's build.
On July 09 2009 20:35 MaGic~PhiL wrote: I thought fantasy could do better.. no matter how good bisu played.. that was a weak weak performance by fantasy..
of course, he cant kick Bisu out of his last SL, can he?
On July 09 2009 20:41 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: also note that protoss don't usually do that 2base arbiter 12gate attack because any sorta 3base macro timing will defend it pretty easily. great choice against what fantasy did that game though
Well its not like he did some sort of 2base all in, he was on 4 bases and about to take a 5th when he attacked... And he did see Fantasy taking a 4th and moving tanks up before he attacked with his obser.
Do you realize you're arguing with one of the top3 terran minds outside of korea?^^
On July 09 2009 20:41 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: also note that protoss don't usually do that 2base arbiter 12gate attack because any sorta 3base macro timing will defend it pretty easily. great choice against what fantasy did that game though
Well its not like he did some sort of 2base all in, he was on 4 bases and about to take a 5th when he attacked... And he did see Fantasy taking a 4th and moving tanks up before he attacked with his obser.
yeah, it's not an all-in, and i certainly didn't say it was, it's just highly aggressive and protoss don't do it because it has a pretty low success rate against the current tvp metagame, 3base double armory with fast vessel. you basically can't hold the counterattack.
On July 09 2009 21:05 ArvickHero wrote: Hwasin will drop the game for revenge against Bisu haha
Well, it was actuelly go.go who picked Hwasin for "insurance", not Bisu. And if Hwasin wins, he does have the chance to advance in the tiebreaker.(But i think Bisu will most likely crush both)
On July 09 2009 21:05 ArvickHero wrote: Hwasin will drop the game for revenge against Bisu haha
Well, it was actuelly go.go who picked Hwasin for "insurance", not Bisu. And if Hwasin wins, he does have the chance to advance in the tiebreaker.(But i think Bisu will most likely crush both)
Well, the possiblity is still there imo.. Its a good thing Bisu decided against totally humiliating Hwasin with Scouts or something when he had that massive advantage, otherwise I'd say he's going to drop it for sure haha
On July 09 2009 20:41 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: also note that protoss don't usually do that 2base arbiter 12gate attack because any sorta 3base macro timing will defend it pretty easily. great choice against what fantasy did that game though
Well its not like he did some sort of 2base all in, he was on 4 bases and about to take a 5th when he attacked... And he did see Fantasy taking a 4th and moving tanks up before he attacked with his obser.
yeah, it's not an all-in, and i certainly didn't say it was, it's just highly aggressive and protoss don't do it because it has a pretty low success rate against the current tvp metagame, 3base double armory with fast vessel. you basically can't hold the counterattack.
Are you talking about his general build order or his attack?
zerglings bunker-runby was today's theme? Effort winning UpMagiC is no surprise but man Flash... brilliant play by ZerO once again, he's quickly becoming my 2nd favourite zerg & player! haven't seen the Fantasy vs Bisu yet, waiting for it to pop up @ youtube ;p
On July 09 2009 22:51 ThePhan2m wrote: how come Liquidbet alread put winners after 1 match, when it says vote is for whole bo3 series!!
It's called Liquibet, there is no d
And yes, the results should not have been put in, dunno who did it. I posted about it in the staff forum already though, just waiting for SonuvBob to fix it.
On July 09 2009 21:05 ArvickHero wrote: Hwasin will drop the game for revenge against Bisu haha
Throw away a game against a player who just called him insurance along with his own shot at the OSL to screw a player who called him insurance once a long time ago? I find this a highly unlikely turn of affairs. This is not to say Hwasin is an auto-win against go.go or anything, but he has a good chance and I believe he will try as hard as he can.
I can't believe people in this thread are trashing on Fantasy now, like it's so easy to defend against his style of TvP.
Give Bisu credit for playing his game, being patient, and allowing Fantasy to out-expand him while Bisu teched up. Bisu then found a timing window where Fantasy was unprepared for a frontal assault, and kicked his teeth in.
It looks to me like Bisu studied Fantasy a ton for this game, and adjusted his play to counter Fantasy's style perfectly.
On July 10 2009 03:35 vishrut wrote: hwasin might lose on purpose because he knows he or gogo arent gonna win but bisu actually has a chance and can eliminate bisu for revenge
Put yourself in Hwasin's situation. You're in the most important SC tournament in Korea. Your chances of winning are very low, albeit not zero. If you win the next game, you have a chance of moving on; if you lose, you're out. Would you really be thinking about getting revenge on a guy who jokingly called you "insurance"? Sure, Hwasin isn't a top top player and he just doesn't matter to most of us so his self-sacrifice doesn't seem like a big deal if it means eliminating Bisu, who is probably one of the most liked and most hated progamers. But honestly, do you really think Hwasin would care that much about anyone other than himself when it comes to Starleagues?
Well, if he goes out of this SL, he can concentrate fully on the MSL, where beating Iris in a Bo3 is more likely than beating Bisu and go.go consecutively in Bo1s.
On July 10 2009 03:59 Nylan wrote: This "throwing games" fad that has popped up lately is really annoying
Agreed fully, especially the ones for the OSL. Jaedong will throw a game even though it potentially puts him into a tiebreaker? Hwasin will throw a game even though he's in a tiebreaker with a win? Yeah...sure.
On July 10 2009 03:35 vishrut wrote: hwasin might lose on purpose because he knows he or gogo arent gonna win but bisu actually has a chance and can eliminate bisu for revenge
I don't understand why people are reacting like Fantasy is locked to beat bisu. Bisu does have one of the best PvT right now, if not the best. He practises with Fantasy all the time. So they know each other very well. So it should not be surprising at all Bisu beat fantasy imo.
While I'm personally surprised that Fantasy lost as easily as he did (from my point of view anyway) it comes as no major upset that he ended up losing the game to Bisu. I mean come on... it's Bisu, one of the best Protoss of all time. As others have said he has a great PvT and overall is playing very well (only dropping a couple games here and there).
I wish Fantasy would have gotten more units overall, but really Bisu read his build like a book and knew exactly when to attack. It doesnt mean Fantasy played bad or threw the game, he just wasnt prepared for that kind of timing attack.
Either way the games were very entertaining. I especially enjoyed the ZerO games (or as I call him... BallerZerg)
On July 10 2009 03:35 vishrut wrote: hwasin might lose on purpose because he knows he or gogo arent gonna win but bisu actually has a chance and can eliminate bisu for revenge
god.... these people... seriously guys. seriously
+1, enough with these absurdly complex and convoluted theories...I've now read several totally ridiculous ones in recent LR threads
I was really impressed with Bisu's game against Fantasy — he just read his opponent so well, from blocking harass to identifying the perfect time to attack (just before Fantasy had finished teching and was ready to let his 3-base macro turn into a huge army)
On July 10 2009 03:35 vishrut wrote: hwasin might lose on purpose because he knows he or gogo arent gonna win but bisu actually has a chance and can eliminate bisu for revenge
god.... these people... seriously guys. seriously
+1, enough with these absurdly complex and convoluted theories...I've now read several totally ridiculous ones in recent LR threads
Uh huh. Except if the conspiracy was true, then that's exactly what you would say... I know what you're trying to pull...
On July 10 2009 03:35 vishrut wrote: hwasin might lose on purpose because he knows he or gogo arent gonna win but bisu actually has a chance and can eliminate bisu for revenge
god.... these people... seriously guys. seriously
+1, enough with these absurdly complex and convoluted theories...I've now read several totally ridiculous ones in recent LR threads
What is this I see ...
On July 09 2009 14:16 JWD wrote: Jaedong's loss is pretty easy to explain if you consider its effect on Flash's OSL Ro8 hopes.
On July 09 2009 13:07 JWD wrote: I love everyone coming into this thread to comment on how JD is sucking, without even considering that by losing this game he eliminated Flash from the OSL
On July 10 2009 03:35 vishrut wrote: hwasin might lose on purpose because he knows he or gogo arent gonna win but bisu actually has a chance and can eliminate bisu for revenge
god.... these people... seriously guys. seriously
+1, enough with these absurdly complex and convoluted theories...I've now read several totally ridiculous ones in recent LR threads
On July 09 2009 13:07 JWD wrote: I love everyone coming into this thread to comment on how JD is sucking, without even considering that by losing this game he eliminated Flash from the OSL
On July 10 2009 03:35 vishrut wrote: hwasin might lose on purpose because he knows he or gogo arent gonna win but bisu actually has a chance and can eliminate bisu for revenge
god.... these people... seriously guys. seriously
+1, enough with these absurdly complex and convoluted theories...I've now read several totally ridiculous ones in recent LR threads
On July 09 2009 13:07 JWD wrote: I love everyone coming into this thread to comment on how JD is sucking, without even considering that by losing this game he eliminated Flash from the OSL
On July 09 2009 19:37 darktreb wrote: Realistically, there is no reason to believe Flash is going to win this series. It's not impossible, but the likelihood of him winning has to be less than 20% at this point. Will four more days of practice be enough for him to salvage his TvZ?
lol?
I 2nd that LOL. This isn't Upmagic or Nada, this is Flash. He could lose 4 in a row and people would still bet on him. Flash is the most solid Terran out there. He is known for his strong defense and late game. Like Jaedong and Bisu, Flash will always be one of the favorites to win.
Bisu vs Fantasy. Bisu got his revenge on Fantasy for knocking him out of the OSL. Fantasy's strategy isn't going to work on Bisu again. Bisu read Fantasy from beginning to the end. I don't know why more Protoss don't play a more defensive style against Fantasy. Fantasy is known for his dropship harassment style. Bisu just sat back and defend while slowly take expansions.
Flash vs Kwanro Lol. So greedy. The metagame of TvZ has gone to a point where you don't really need an early comstat since it is either fast mutalisk or hydras. Kwanro knew that, and knowing Flash's style, caught Flash completely offguard. The massive lings look like mutalisk will follow. Kwanro, well played.
Zero vs Pure Zero played the map, Heartbreak Ridge, very well. No trouble for him taking and securing the 4th. Reminds me of his game against Bisu on the same map. The way Zero is playing, he might be the 2nd best ZvP currently.
I don't really see how Flash was all that greedy against Kwanro.. 1Rax CC is standard. Anyways, down one game, I expect Flash to lose this series, but it would be cool if he pulled out a 2-1 and advanced. The guy just doesn't seem to pull wins when it counts anymore.
On July 11 2009 15:38 Vasoline73 wrote: I don't really see how Flash was all that greedy against Kwanro.. 1Rax CC is standard. Anyways, down one game, I expect Flash to lose this series, but it would be cool if he pulled out a 2-1 and advanced. The guy just doesn't seem to pull wins when it counts anymore.
It's not the 1rax CC that was overly greedy. It's Flash not getting the comstat after the academy. He chose to save 100mineral 100 gas and to make more SCVs. Not to take away from Kwanro's victory, Flash fell for Kwanro's strategy while Kwanro played it brilliantly.
On July 11 2009 15:38 Vasoline73 wrote: I don't really see how Flash was all that greedy against Kwanro.. 1Rax CC is standard. Anyways, down one game, I expect Flash to lose this series, but it would be cool if he pulled out a 2-1 and advanced. The guy just doesn't seem to pull wins when it counts anymore.
It's not the 1rax CC that was overly greedy. It's Flash not getting the comstat after the academy. He chose to save 100mineral 100 gas and to make more SCVs. Not to take away from Kwanro's victory, Flash fell for Kwanro's strategy while Kwanro played it brilliantly.
Yeah but what I'm saying is when you're controlling a group of marines and SCV's trying to properly trap a group of speedlings in your base without losing too many marines, while another group of speedlings run in, you don't have the money to spend on a comsat, let alone two simultaniously. Flash didn't even have stim or medics when the first group ran in, and didn't even have range (150/150) researched yet for the Lurk attack (or at least not moments before it happened).
If Flash had built the comsats and a bunch of mutas flew in and his marine/turrent count sucked, everybody would have been like "omggggg Flash so greedy! why no marines? why no turrents? NO RANGE?" and people would have been saying the same thing as they are now.
Kwanro did a great build and it's Flash's fault for letting the inital group of speedlings in, but after that there was nothing he could really do without knowing how Kwanro was teching. He chose to expect mutas and got raped by Lurkers. It had nothing to do with a greedy build... and like you said, I'm not saying that to take away from Kwanro's victory or build. It worked perfectly.
On July 11 2009 15:38 Vasoline73 wrote: I don't really see how Flash was all that greedy against Kwanro.. 1Rax CC is standard. Anyways, down one game, I expect Flash to lose this series, but it would be cool if he pulled out a 2-1 and advanced. The guy just doesn't seem to pull wins when it counts anymore.
It's not the 1rax CC that was overly greedy. It's Flash not getting the comstat after the academy. He chose to save 100mineral 100 gas and to make more SCVs. Not to take away from Kwanro's victory, Flash fell for Kwanro's strategy while Kwanro played it brilliantly.
Yeah but what I'm saying is when you're controlling a group of marines and SCV's trying to properly trap a group of speedlings in your base without losing too many marines, while another group of speedlings run in, you don't have the money to spend on a comsat, let alone two simultaniously. Flash didn't even have stim or medics when the first group ran in, and didn't even have range (150/150) researched yet for the Lurk attack (or at least not moments before it happened).
If Flash had built the comsats and a bunch of mutas flew in and his marine/turrent count sucked, everybody would have been like "omggggg Flash so greedy! why no marines? why no turrents? NO RANGE?" and people would have been saying the same thing as they are now.
Kwanro did a great build and it's Flash's fault for letting the inital group of speedlings in, but after that there was nothing he could really do without knowing how Kwanro was teching. He chose to expect mutas and got raped by Lurkers. It had nothing to do with a greedy build... and like you said, I'm not saying that to take away from Kwanro's victory or build. It worked perfectly.
I agree with this, also I want to add that had kwanro's lurkers been scouted on their way to flash's natural, kwanro would have lost. He invested so much into lings and later lurkers that his economy was in shambles. Flash almost saw the lurkers, only if he had sent a second scouting SCV or left one hiding out in the wild ... I know pros don't do that but he could consider that especially given how he had a late satcom, he should have relied more on stray SCVs.
EPT
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EffOrt <Carthage 3> 
UpMaGiC
Pure <Heartbreak Ridge> 
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