Nah, they're both rookies as far as Proleague goes. Devil has actually been around longer, and both have been on the scene for a while now, they just haven't broken into OSL/MSL/Proleague until this season.
Man, I just realized, trying to get people to watch/stream this over SKT vs KTF is going to be like pulling nails. Come watch CJ vs. STX people! There's less mirrors!
I'm always rooting for STX, even though CJ is my number two. I just get irritated when they don't send out July for a month it feels like. Calm is good but... maybe STX is investing in their future or something, I know they're out of playoffs.. *mope*
This lineup is perfect for STX. All our players are playing their strongest mu and/or are playing on maps that favor their race. I truly think any 3-0 CJ predictions here are just blind fanboyism. (that said, I appreciate the thread p4ndemic, it's very pretty ^^)
3-0 STX
Bogus may fall to the might of EffOrt, even on a T map, so Calm might have to finish this off as a 3-1.
This lineup is perfect for STX. All our players are playing their strongest mu and/or are playing on maps that favor their race. I truly think any 3-0 CJ predictions here are just blind fanboyism. (that said, I appreciate the thread p4ndemic, it's very pretty ^^)
3-0 STX
Bogus may fall to the might of EffOrt, even on a T map, so Calm might have to finish this off as a 3-1.
This lineup is perfect for STX. All our players are playing their strongest mu and/or are playing on maps that favor their race. I truly think any 3-0 CJ predictions here are just blind fanboyism. (that said, I appreciate the thread p4ndemic, it's very pretty ^^)
3-0 STX
Bogus may fall to the might of EffOrt, even on a T map, so Calm might have to finish this off as a 3-1.
STX takes this 3-0. Bogus will cheese and sucess,Devil will fail hard, and Kal will just outplay Skyhigh or simply cheese the shit out of him (hello destination).
On May 22 2009 22:54 Itachii wrote: STX takes this 3-0. Bogus will cheese and sucess,Devil will fail hard, and Kal will just outplay Skyhigh or simply cheese the shit out of him (hello destination).
On May 22 2009 22:54 Itachii wrote: STX takes this 3-0. Bogus will cheese and sucess,Devil will fail hard, and Kal will just outplay Skyhigh or simply cheese the shit out of him (hello destination).
DREAM ON
don't worry you ll quote me after this match and ask how did i knew the exact scenario of it ^.~
On May 22 2009 22:54 Itachii wrote: STX takes this 3-0. Bogus will cheese and sucess,Devil will fail hard, and Kal will just outplay Skyhigh or simply cheese the shit out of him (hello destination).
DREAM ON
don't worry you ll quote me after this match and ask how did i knew the exact scenario of it ^.~
Estatisticaly STX has more chances to win. my guess:
EffOrt > Bogus - EffOrt is playing brillantly recently, I can't see Bogus winning this Devil < Modesty - Both players don't have too good ZvZ, but I believe that Modesty is stronger sKyHigh < Kal - This will be the toughest, both players come from a 3win streak agains each other race, but Kal will get this. Movie < Calm - Movie is 7-3 vZ, Calm is 8-2 vP. Another tough match I believe, but Calm is gonna win this.
Really can't agree with your prediction on the STX choice for the ACE match- send out a Zerg on Heartbreak Ridge? They've been doing poorly against terran, and disastrously against toss on that map.
EffOrt > Bogus EffOrt is tearing up the proleague, he's the second best zerg playing the game right now. He isn't going to lose this one. Devil < Modesty I really don't know much about Devil, but his stats are unremarkable. Modesty is a solid player. sKyHigh > Kal Both strong players on winning streaks, in the end, I sKyHigh is just the slightly stronger player. Movie > Calm This is a toss-up, so I'm picking protoss because they need the self-esteem.
Effort's a heavy favorite over Bogus on sheer credibility as a progamer. Oh, and his OSL group. Modesty's slightly favored over Devil (PL vs ML) but his ZvZ which he's apparently supposed to be a sniper at since STX keeps dropping him on BR is like 3-4 right now so who knows. Kal won't successfully cheese the Cheddar King, and given Kal's shaky overall in proleague PvT, skyhigh's the heavy favorite. Movie doesn't stand a chance against Calm. Unless he pulls off some sheer wtfery like he did against Jaedong, but we don't make predictions based on that. Well, I don't.
This ought to go to ace where I expect Calm vs Skyhigh with Calm winning except that Calm doesn't win ace matches so yeah.
Unless Modesty loses, in which case too bad so sad STX.
STX will take it 3-1 or 3-2. EffOrt will most likely take Bogus out. sKyHigh vs Kal is the most iffy game, but may I just remind everyone who allkilled CJ last round?
On May 22 2009 22:54 Itachii wrote: STX takes this 3-0. Bogus will cheese and sucess,Devil will fail hard, and Kal will just outplay Skyhigh or simply cheese the shit out of him (hello destination).
But then you realize that Skyhigh made best look like a D- noob on this map while Kal almost lost to...Frozean.
On May 22 2009 22:54 Itachii wrote: STX takes this 3-0. Bogus will cheese and sucess,Devil will fail hard, and Kal will just outplay Skyhigh or simply cheese the shit out of him (hello destination).
But then you realize that Skyhigh made best look like a D- noob on this map while Kal almost lost to...Frozean.
On May 22 2009 22:54 Itachii wrote: STX takes this 3-0. Bogus will cheese and sucess,Devil will fail hard, and Kal will just outplay Skyhigh or simply cheese the shit out of him (hello destination).
But then you realize that Skyhigh made best look like a D- noob on this map while Kal almost lost to...Frozean.
On May 22 2009 22:54 Itachii wrote: STX takes this 3-0. Bogus will cheese and sucess,Devil will fail hard, and Kal will just outplay Skyhigh or simply cheese the shit out of him (hello destination).
But then you realize that Skyhigh made best look like a D- noob on this map while Kal almost lost to...Frozean.
I really dont get how CJ is winning the best zerg poll (well I do it's because CJ fans are fucking blind)
Effort is really good, but kwanro and savior are HORRIBLE (well kwanro is OK). July still has the highest ZvP ELO in the game, Calm easily competes with effort for 2nd best zerg, and by.hero has really good ZvP (and decent ZvT/ZvZ), not to mention a OSL semis appearance last season.
STX has the best Zerg lineup on any team, undeniable
On May 23 2009 02:29 Ideas wrote: I really dont get how CJ is winning the best zerg poll (well I do it's because CJ fans are fucking blind)
Effort is really good, but kwanro and savior are HORRIBLE (well kwanro is OK). July still has the highest ZvP ELO in the game, Calm easily competes with effort for 2nd best zerg, and by.hero has really good ZvP (and decent ZvT/ZvZ), not to mention a OSL semis appearance last season.
STX has the best Zerg lineup on any team, undeniable
wat
Savior is the only zerg bonjwa
even if you be super generous and say july = savior historically you still have
I voted STX for best zergs initially due to my inherent fanboyism, but now that I really think of it, it's almost too close to call.
Savior ≥ July Historically? Ok, yeah, sure. If this poll is measuring the current lineup strength, which I'm pretty sure it is, I think you'll agree that July > Savior.
Kwanro = By.Hero I can agree with. Kwanro has a ELO edge, but I think hero has potential he's not yet had a chance to prove.
EffOrt > Calm.... This really pains me to admit as Calm is my favorite player, but EffOrt is an absolute beast and will probably take up permenent residence as the #2 zerg.
On May 23 2009 02:29 Ideas wrote: I really dont get how CJ is winning the best zerg poll (well I do it's because CJ fans are fucking blind)
Effort is really good, but kwanro and savior are HORRIBLE (well kwanro is OK). July still has the highest ZvP ELO in the game, Calm easily competes with effort for 2nd best zerg, and by.hero has really good ZvP (and decent ZvT/ZvZ), not to mention a OSL semis appearance last season.
STX has the best Zerg lineup on any team, undeniable
wat
Savior is the only zerg bonjwa
even if you be super generous and say july = savior historically you still have
To everyone who thinks Devil is going to be a pushover, he is 14-3 in Minor League, going 5-2 in ZvZ's and 3-1 on Battle Royale. Clearly he is not being put out there just to test the waters, he's being put out there to win.
On the CJ/STX Zergs poll debate, I'm personally leaning towards STX at the moment, but it's really difficult to decide. If I was to rank the top 3 zergs on each team, I think I'd rank them as 1) EffOrt, 2) Calm, 3) July, 4) Kwanro, 5) by.hero, 6) sAviOr, which would have the teams dead even.
Thanks for all the positive feedback on the OP guys, you can count on these every time CJ has an early match.
I thought it would be easy enough to imply that I meant currently, seeing as if we went historically it wouldn't even be close (as July has only been on STX for like the last year, and past that STX zergs haven't accomplished much), but I changed it to specify just to avoid confusion.
On May 23 2009 05:41 p4NDemik wrote: On the CJ/STX Zergs poll debate, I'm personally leaning towards STX at the moment, but it's really difficult to decide. If I was to rank the top 3 zergs on each team, I think I'd rank them as 1) EffOrt, 2) Calm, 3) July, 4) Kwanro, 5) by.hero, 6) sAviOr, which would have the teams dead even.
Yeah, I can basically agree with this.
With the gap between Kwanro and hero being the tightest and the gap between hero and savior being the widest.
In terms of the strongest Zergs, I'd imagine ACE would get it. Those guys go through military training so they could probably bench press a whole lot more than the zergs on any other team...
Oh wait...
In my book, a lineup is two players, as one great player doesn't make for depth. For this reason, SKT1 obviously has the strongest Protoss lineup, because they have two top level toss to fill out their card with every day. As for Zerg, I think both of these teams are even- EffOrt is obviously the top player here, but Calm and Modesty are strong players, and unless we see something impressive from Devil, I don't see a strong CJ zerg to fill a regular place in their lineup. That said, you can count on EffOrt for a win, while STX usually will not go 2/2 with their zerg.
Well, Action has a similar record to Devil's in the minor leagues (and we saw how he did in the big leagues...), so going by that (and the fact that the maps are totally in STX's favor), I'm saying STX takes this. I'm hoping CJ wins though...
On May 23 2009 07:25 tree.hugger wrote: In terms of the strongest Zergs, I'd imagine ACE would get it. Those guys go through military training so they could probably bench press a whole lot more than the zergs on any other team...
Oh wait...
In my book, a lineup is two players, as one great player doesn't make for depth. For this reason, SKT1 obviously has the strongest Protoss lineup, because they have two top level toss to fill out their card with every day. As for Zerg, I think both of these teams are even- EffOrt is obviously the top player here, but Calm and Modesty are strong players, and unless we see something impressive from Devil, I don't see a strong CJ zerg to fill a regular place in their lineup. That said, you can count on EffOrt for a win, while STX usually will not go 2/2 with their zerg.
Once Oversky gets back to CJ the debate will be over... NOBODY except Jaedong OZ (all by himself) will match the CJ Zerg lineup. Just throwing that out there.
On May 23 2009 07:25 tree.hugger wrote: In terms of the strongest Zergs, I'd imagine ACE would get it. Those guys go through military training so they could probably bench press a whole lot more than the zergs on any other team...
Oh wait...
In my book, a lineup is two players, as one great player doesn't make for depth. For this reason, SKT1 obviously has the strongest Protoss lineup, because they have two top level toss to fill out their card with every day. As for Zerg, I think both of these teams are even- EffOrt is obviously the top player here, but Calm and Modesty are strong players, and unless we see something impressive from Devil, I don't see a strong CJ zerg to fill a regular place in their lineup. That said, you can count on EffOrt for a win, while STX usually will not go 2/2 with their zerg.
Actually, Oversky, Yellow and GoRush would make a pretty strong argument if they were all in their prime.
On May 23 2009 08:47 Musoeun wrote: Once Oversky gets back to CJ the debate will be over... NOBODY except Jaedong OZ (all by himself) will match the CJ Zerg lineup. Just throwing that out there.
the team will be too stacked for its own good lol
It can already easily fill a b07 bracket
savior effort Iris Skyhigh movie much -- kwanro memory oversky
On May 23 2009 08:47 Musoeun wrote: Once Oversky gets back to CJ the debate will be over... NOBODY except Jaedong OZ (all by himself) will match the CJ Zerg lineup. Just throwing that out there.
the team will be too stacked for its own good lol
It can already easily fill a b07 bracket
savior effort Iris Skyhigh movie much -- kwanro memory oversky
On May 23 2009 08:47 Musoeun wrote: Once Oversky gets back to CJ the debate will be over... NOBODY except Jaedong OZ (all by himself) will match the CJ Zerg lineup. Just throwing that out there.
the team will be too stacked for its own good lol
It can already easily fill a b07 bracket
savior effort Iris Skyhigh movie much -- kwanro memory oversky
No other team is so deep
I just love it when I see posts that contain "CJ" and "deep" in the same sentence. Makes me smile a bit =] CJ's going to take this 3-0!!! Still miss Savior though, come back to us Ma Jae Yoon ;_;
On May 23 2009 08:47 Musoeun wrote: Once Oversky gets back to CJ the debate will be over... NOBODY except Jaedong OZ (all by himself) will match the CJ Zerg lineup. Just throwing that out there.
notice has pretty sharp TvT, bogus is pretty untested in all MUs, and really we've only seen modesty play ZvZ (and he's not that great at it yet). These 3 players I think STX is trying to play more and get them up to par with the rest of the team. I thinkt that bynext Season (not R5 but next season) they can all really improve and hopefully give STX a lot more options. Especially the Terran players (its STX's worst race :\ ).
Notice and Bogus are both very good considering how rarely they play. Modesty.... well, the coaches seem to think he's good. I'm not convinced yet either.
Devil's performance today will be unpredictable. Minor leagues is not even close to the same as Proleague. A good record is something, but historically means very little.
EffOrt > Bogus Outsider is good for sunken breaks and sneaky Mineral glitch vulture stuff, but EffOrt has shown himself to be really good at this game to the point where I predict Bogus will lose. Bogus is still awesome tho.
I sort of worry about Movie since he seems so unrefined. He loses units here and there sometimes, but that's also adds to his gameplay and excitement.
So CJ can field sAviOr, EffOrt, Kwanro, sKyHigh, Iris, Movie, and Much. And also have backups in the forms of Nbs, Orion, Memory, and probably Devil soon? Damn. Don't stop it feels soooo goooddd.
On May 23 2009 11:06 Avidkeystamper wrote: Devil's performance today will be unpredictable. Minor leagues is not even close to the same as Proleague. A good record is something, but historically means very little.
Again I will point out that when CJ sends out a player for a one-shot like this they tend to do suprisingly well.
Whether its the player rising to the top of internal rankings, or there being some elaborate cheese prepared, they tend to suprise people.
they wudnt send iris for ace and they wudnt send by.hero for ace either
mite be skyhigh vs calm or something. or effort vs like hwasin
I agree that by.hero won't be seeing any pt today, but Iris is a distinct possibility for the Ace match. He's 2-0 on Heartbreak, and would match up well against whoever STX throws out there (spare Kal). I'd still make EffOrt the favorite to come out in the Ace, but Iris isn't outside the realm of possibility at all.
On May 23 2009 07:25 tree.hugger wrote: In terms of the strongest Zergs, I'd imagine ACE would get it. Those guys go through military training so they could probably bench press a whole lot more than the zergs on any other team...
Oh wait...
In my book, a lineup is two players, as one great player doesn't make for depth. For this reason, SKT1 obviously has the strongest Protoss lineup, because they have two top level toss to fill out their card with every day. As for Zerg, I think both of these teams are even- EffOrt is obviously the top player here, but Calm and Modesty are strong players, and unless we see something impressive from Devil, I don't see a strong CJ zerg to fill a regular place in their lineup. That said, you can count on EffOrt for a win, while STX usually will not go 2/2 with their zerg.
On May 23 2009 07:25 tree.hugger wrote: In terms of the strongest Zergs, I'd imagine ACE would get it. Those guys go through military training so they could probably bench press a whole lot more than the zergs on any other team...
Oh wait...
In my book, a lineup is two players, as one great player doesn't make for depth. For this reason, SKT1 obviously has the strongest Protoss lineup, because they have two top level toss to fill out their card with every day. As for Zerg, I think both of these teams are even- EffOrt is obviously the top player here, but Calm and Modesty are strong players, and unless we see something impressive from Devil, I don't see a strong CJ zerg to fill a regular place in their lineup. That said, you can count on EffOrt for a win, while STX usually will not go 2/2 with their zerg.
kwanro ain't good enough for you?
Not at all actually, he's waaay overrated.
I'm a CJ fan and I agree. When he first came out he was good, but he was really rough and he looked like he needed more experience. However, he's already had a ton of play time and he hasn't progressed much. Players like Movie are showing their improvement much faster. Kwanro is still very rough. But I guess he's really young so he still has time...
Movie just sitting, bunkered up in his nat. Calm's primary force is mutas. They've done a little damage, but Movie's cannon whored so they aren't able to end this.
On May 23 2009 15:02 3clipse wrote: Please, please, please don't do anything stupid, Kal. If you just play straight up you should have this.
Kal never plays anything BUT straight up. Kind of like bisu never goes cars.
I could swear I saw him go carriers against stork once, and one of them got mindcontrolled?
He also went carriers against memory in a group stage game and carriers against fantasy in their OSL bo5. I think its always a shock when Bisu goes carrier
On May 23 2009 15:02 3clipse wrote: Please, please, please don't do anything stupid, Kal. If you just play straight up you should have this.
Kal never plays anything BUT straight up. Kind of like bisu never goes cars.
....Did you watch his game vs Skyhigh, dude? Sloppy proxy gate + sheild battery + gas steal cheese. Lost his zealots one by one. Every time I felt physical pain.
On May 23 2009 15:11 udgnim wrote: ZvP - 1-5 on heartbreak =/
Misleading. Check the actual matches and you'll see it's mostly the best protoss stomping. Effort and by.Hero are good but Kal, Bisu and Stork are better.
I know it's not true, but I love how Kwanro always gives me the feeling that he doesn't practice at all, just shows up to a game and sits there thinking "game plan ... let's see ... alright I'm going to make a few units and attack, and then I'm going to keep attacking, alright sounds good"
On May 23 2009 15:35 darktreb wrote: I know it's not true, but I love how Kwanro always gives me the feeling that he doesn't practice at all, just shows up to a game and sits there thinking "game plan ... let's see ... alright I'm going to make a few units and attack, and then I'm going to keep attacking, alright sounds good"
Hey, it was different this time! He had 3 bases before he got more than about six lings, it was ridiculous. This time it was more like, "Huh, effOrt says macro is cool, let's try this..." *corsairs show up* "Screw this, hydralisks are more fun."
On May 23 2009 15:35 darktreb wrote: I know it's not true, but I love how Kwanro always gives me the feeling that he doesn't practice at all, just shows up to a game and sits there thinking "game plan ... let's see ... alright I'm going to make a few units and attack, and then I'm going to keep attacking, alright sounds good"
QFT, the guy's play is so standard. Whenever I see him play, I always think he would lose because his play doesn't really seem anything out of the ordinary. Yet he's been winning the majority of the games he play against top players. Go figure.
On May 23 2009 15:35 darktreb wrote: I know it's not true, but I love how Kwanro always gives me the feeling that he doesn't practice at all, just shows up to a game and sits there thinking "game plan ... let's see ... alright I'm going to make a few units and attack, and then I'm going to keep attacking, alright sounds good"
QFT, the guy's play is so standard. Whenever I see him play, I always think he would lose because his play doesn't really seem anything out of the ordinary. Yet he's been winning the majority of the games he play against top players. Go figure.
kwanro doesn't really play like any other zerg at all.
Same basic economic principles but he almost always adopts the most aggressive/risky midgame plans.
On May 23 2009 21:16 Solidus_315 wrote: seriously, OP? can u update the results atleast.
He said himself he fell asleep.
After everything the OP has done for TL, he at least deserves a little slack.
Oh, sorry. I'm newb so i don't know who's who.
It's ok, it's not like you shit talked them or something......
anyway, basically the guys with the different icons are usually staff or special guys...the MiR (men in red) are the ones who hands out bans...and the guys with the stars are usually the guys who really did a whole lot of stuff (those shiny blue stars don't come easy).....
CJ has so many good players its amazing . They could make 2 separated teams in proleague and in the end of the round Kespa should just combine their records .
On May 23 2009 18:29 t3r.sAnkAri wrote: CJ is the zerg spawning pool. sAviOr, EffOrt, Kwanro, and OversKy even came from CJ. Now Devil and Hydra are coming from there. Just my opinion.
On May 23 2009 18:29 t3r.sAnkAri wrote: CJ is the zerg spawning pool. sAviOr, EffOrt, Kwanro, and OversKy even came from CJ. Now Devil and Hydra are coming from there. Just my opinion.
Ahahahaha, I just watched Skyhigh vs Kal. It made me rofl! Kal thought he was being a really clever toss by proxying and stealing gas. Oh boy, did that backfire! Skyhigh is such a badass. BBS excluded, I don't know if I've ever seen a toss get beaten by pure marines. Really funny game, Skyhigh for bonjwa!
EPT
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/pachi/banner/SPL_080930.png)
![[image loading]](http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/5647/cjlineup.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/206/lineupg.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/Ticon_small.gif)
: 37-25, ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/Zicon_small.png)
: 47-36, ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/Picon_small.gif)
: 24-22 ![[image loading]](http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/4328/effortrighttz1.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/3952/outsider.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/1159/bogus.jpg)
EffOrt < Outsider > 
Bogus ![[image loading]](http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/4447/devilctk.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/8058/battleroyal.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/110/modesty.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img162.imageshack.us/img162/5757/skyhighright.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/1711/destinationthumbdm7.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/2794/kalz.jpg)
Kal ![[image loading]](http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/8061/movierightzn6.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/9108/neomedusa.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/3619/calm.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/4813/cjlong.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/3428/heartbreakridge.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/273/stxlogo.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/music/billandted460.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.fomos.kr/board/photo/1243061836_1.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://dl.getdropbox.com/u/875336/SCPictures/KWANROLLED.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://kidswereus.files.wordpress.com/2007/02/mr-bogus.jpg)
