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On May 24 2009 02:48 HnR)hT wrote:
Fantasy vs Flash was predictable build order loss. Fantasy did really well anyway due to brilliant management and harass, but Flash didn't make any mistakes. It's funny how Flash wins one game (after a streak of losses) and suddenly he's "the best terran," "invincible," and "really understand the underlying strategy better than anyone." For my money, Fantasy still owns him.
I'm don't agree with this completely. Fantasy had a real chance to take the game with his two pronged vult/wraith attack. Flash just did a really good job dealing with that and then countered strong.
Flash fans are excited because the conventional wisdom that he is the #1 Terran was slipping, and right or wrong it's back to being CW for now at least. I think he's the best though, and is about to roll right through the leagues.
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OMG BISU I'm so disappointed in u -.-
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On May 24 2009 02:48 HnR)hT wrote:
Fantasy vs Flash was predictable build order loss. Fantasy did really well anyway due to brilliant management and harass, but Flash didn't make any mistakes. It's funny how Flash wins one game (after a streak of losses) and suddenly he's "the best terran," "invincible," and "really understand the underlying strategy better than anyone." For my money, Fantasy still owns him.
I don't get how you can argue that Fantasy is better than Flash. 66% wins vs 56% wins. 43 wins in PL vs 24 wins in PL. That says quite alot. I would also say Leta is at least on par with Fantasy.
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Best, Bisu and Fantasy-- the three stars-- all lost. Rofl.
On the other hand, thezerg won. ROFL (SKT zergs used to be terrible). This is entirely the opposite of what you would expect at least one season ago.
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Flash is everyone's favourite player. :p
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On May 24 2009 03:24 usopsama wrote:
Best, Bisu and Fantasy-- the three stars-- all lost. Rofl.
On the other hand, thezerg won. ROFL (SKT zergs used to be terrible). This is entirely the opposite of what you would expect at least one season ago.
This is entirely the opposite of what you'd expect two days ago.
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Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
On May 24 2009 03:23 Holgerius wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2009 02:48 HnR)hT wrote:
Fantasy vs Flash was predictable build order loss. Fantasy did really well anyway due to brilliant management and harass, but Flash didn't make any mistakes. It's funny how Flash wins one game (after a streak of losses) and suddenly he's "the best terran," "invincible," and "really understand the underlying strategy better than anyone." For my money, Fantasy still owns him. I don't get how you can argue that Fantasy is better than Flash. 66% wins vs 56% wins. 43 wins in PL vs 24 wins in PL. That says quite alot. I would also say Leta is at least on par with Fantasy.
Fantasy is better for two reasons:
1) He's been more impressive recently in starleagues.
2) This may strike people as not a reason at all, but it clinches the argument for me. Fantasy is more innovative and interesting. Alright, Flash is a complete beast, everything from his scv transfers to turret placement is perfect. But we know what we're going to get from Flash. He never varies his TvP style, or his TvT style, or his TvZ style. We like our top players with a spark of genius, and indeed, Bisu revolutionized PvZ, Jaedong revolutionized ZvZ, and Fantasy revolutionized TvZ. Amidst all of this we have Flash who stays strong with the same style, and has the same success. He's great, but I don't think he'll ever win a Starleague again. It's very possible to prepare specifically for him, and I think he's a perennial threat, but never a potential winner.
Didn't this last game only make the series 2-2? So head-to-head they're even. But Fantasy is the better Terran overall, and will be for some time.
EDIT: Oh, and Leta is not better than Fantasy at all. sKyHigh and Leta are about the same distance back, but make no mistake, they're in the back.
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i don't rly agrea
Fantasy has his flashes of "brlilliance", but overall, he cannot compete with Flash
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On May 24 2009 03:50 tree.hugger wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2009 03:23 Holgerius wrote:On May 24 2009 02:48 HnR)hT wrote:
Fantasy vs Flash was predictable build order loss. Fantasy did really well anyway due to brilliant management and harass, but Flash didn't make any mistakes. It's funny how Flash wins one game (after a streak of losses) and suddenly he's "the best terran," "invincible," and "really understand the underlying strategy better than anyone." For my money, Fantasy still owns him. I don't get how you can argue that Fantasy is better than Flash. 66% wins vs 56% wins. 43 wins in PL vs 24 wins in PL. That says quite alot. I would also say Leta is at least on par with Fantasy. Fantasy is better for two reasons: 1) He's been more impressive recently in starleagues. 2) This may strike people as not a reason at all, but it clinches the argument for me. Fantasy is more innovative and interesting. Alright, Flash is a complete beast, everything from his scv transfers to turret placement is perfect. But we know what we're going to get from Flash. He never varies his TvP style, or his TvT style, or his TvZ style. We like our top players with a spark of genius, and indeed, Bisu revolutionized PvZ, Jaedong revolutionized ZvZ, and Fantasy revolutionized TvZ. Amidst all of this we have Flash who stays strong with the same style, and has the same success. He's great, but I don't think he'll ever win a Starleague again. It's very possible to prepare specifically for him, and I think he's a perennial threat, but never a potential winner. Didn't this last game only make the series 2-2? So head-to-head they're even. But Fantasy is the better Terran overall, and will be for some time.
You're forgeting their meeting in GomTV where Flash rape fantasy hard. Just reminder, on NeoRequiem Fantasy left being on 2 supply, no kidding.
Also, have you seen Fantasy's MnM. It is just terrible .While I personally love to watch Flash going MnM it is painful to see the same from Fantasy.
I don't have time to write more but I hope someone will point more subtle things were Flash is just brilliant.
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Fantasy has oov AND Boxer, Flash has only himself.
Yet, Flash owns more!
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Flash has been #1 terran for a long time now. Fantasy had a few good performances and now everybody's jumping on the bandwagon, typical of the T1 fans who are based on hype. Talk about winning a starleague is hilarious considering Flash has one and Fantasy hasn't even won one yet. The same hype train will again be crushed just like how Best was crushed by Stork in the past.
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dude
not everyone, like myself, are a fan of fantasy just cuz he somehow beat Bisu..................
and went on to the finals where he won 2 games against Jaedong.
i think ppl just want to see some quality SKT1 Terrans again
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France231 Posts
On May 24 2009 03:50 tree.hugger wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2009 03:23 Holgerius wrote:On May 24 2009 02:48 HnR)hT wrote:
Fantasy vs Flash was predictable build order loss. Fantasy did really well anyway due to brilliant management and harass, but Flash didn't make any mistakes. It's funny how Flash wins one game (after a streak of losses) and suddenly he's "the best terran," "invincible," and "really understand the underlying strategy better than anyone." For my money, Fantasy still owns him. I don't get how you can argue that Fantasy is better than Flash. 66% wins vs 56% wins. 43 wins in PL vs 24 wins in PL. That says quite alot. I would also say Leta is at least on par with Fantasy. Fantasy is better for two reasons: 1) He's been more impressive recently in starleagues. 2) This may strike people as not a reason at all, but it clinches the argument for me. Fantasy is more innovative and interesting. Alright, Flash is a complete beast, everything from his scv transfers to turret placement is perfect. But we know what we're going to get from Flash. He never varies his TvP style, or his TvT style, or his TvZ style. We like our top players with a spark of genius, and indeed, Bisu revolutionized PvZ, Jaedong revolutionized ZvZ, and Fantasy revolutionized TvZ. Amidst all of this we have Flash who stays strong with the same style, and has the same success. He's great, but I don't think he'll ever win a Starleague again. It's very possible to prepare specifically for him, and I think he's a perennial threat, but never a potential winner. Didn't this last game only make the series 2-2? So head-to-head they're even. But Fantasy is the better Terran overall, and will be for some time. EDIT: Oh, and Leta is not better than Fantasy at all. sKyHigh and Leta are about the same distance back, but make no mistake, they're in the back.
How innotive and interesting = better, exactly ?
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On May 24 2009 02:48 HnR)hT wrote:
Fantasy vs Flash was predictable build order loss. Fantasy did really well anyway due to brilliant management and harass, but Flash didn't make any mistakes. It's funny how Flash wins one game (after a streak of losses) and suddenly he's "the best terran," "invincible," and "really understand the underlying strategy better than anyone." For my money, Fantasy still owns him.
What "string of losses"?
Last 5: 3-2 with losses to Jangbi and Stork who are both playing well again.
Last 10: 6-4 adding losses to Effort (who's damn good) and HiyA (awesome BO prep)
Last 20: 12-8 adding losses to Oversky (on BR), skyhigh (who was/is on a tear), Jaedong (WL Playoffs), and fantasy (who, as noted, is good).
This goes all the way back to February. Freaking February.
In short, Flash has been playing an even 60% win-rate. No ridiculously impressive win-streaks, and he's dropped some crucial games (WL Playoffs, ace-match vs Jangbi) but he's still in MSL, OSL, and GOM and hasn't had a bad loss. This is Flash in bad form and we all know it - but he hasn't run up a "string of losses" since the four games where he dropped a final WL game to UpMagic and then crashed out of OSL and MSL in two days. In February.
fantasy's on a hot streak, no doubt about it, and he's a really good player, no doubt about it - but until he continues to show results like this, everything says he's still worse than Flash and this is just a hot streak. Not to take anything away from fantasy. He's playing really well, and recently better than Flash - but he doesn't have the same credibility quite yet.
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I love arguing about progamers, its so fun.
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Is Luxury dead inside or something after the MSL championship
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Russian Federation1381 Posts
On May 24 2009 04:47 yoofor wrote:
Is Luxury dead inside or something after the MSL championship
That's exactly it i think.
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I think Luxury has like, a tank of "awesome." You see, he only has so much and he has to choose appropriate times to use it, as he will eventually run out. That's why you'll see him in games where he's absolutely terrible the whole way through until, suddenly, he stages a fantastic comeback that would make even Jaedong look good -- he just tapped into a bit of his pure awesome when Leta or anyone least expects it and wins.
Sadly, it doesn't refill very quickly, so he has to be conservative with it. That's why he's always sucked in proleague -- it's never worth losing the valuable "awesome" for just one game. But take winner's league, for example, in which he performed much better than he usually does in proleague -- he knew he could play for more than one game so he turned on the awesome sometimes, taking out Stork, Jangbi, Bisu, Fantasy, etc, and helped KTF get their third place spot.
But, obviously, it would take WAY too much awesome investment to beat Jaedong in ZvZ, so he had to throw the game to save up for the MSL, and thus Oz kicked KTF out of the tourney even though Lux could possibly have saved them.
And then you have the MSL, through which he just went all out and said "Fuck it, I'm going to bleed my tank dry and get this damn title." He absolutely destroyed Zero and took Jangbi to task with what was 2 lopsided series, showing Jaedong-esque levels of ZvZ and ZvP. But it takes a lot to convincingly win an MSL, so his "awesome" tank has been dry as hell. He's barely got enough to stay alive in the leagues(hell he's out of the OSL), so he just can't scrape the PL wins that SHOULD be easy for him.
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United States13143 Posts
On May 24 2009 04:54 TwoToneTerran wrote:
I think Luxury has like, a tank of "awesome." You see, he only has so much and he has to choose appropriate times to use it, as he will eventually run out. That's why you'll see him in games where he's absolutely terrible the whole way through until, suddenly, he stages a fantastic comeback that would make even Jaedong look good -- he just tapped into a bit of his pure awesome when Leta or anyone least expects it and wins.
Sadly, it doesn't refill very quickly, so he has to be conservative with it. That's why he's always sucked in proleague -- it's never worth losing the valuable "awesome" for just one game. But take winner's league, for example, in which he performed much better than he usually does in proleague -- he knew he could play for more than one game so he turned on the awesome sometimes, taking out Stork, Jangbi, Bisu, Fantasy, etc, and helped KTF get their third place spot.
But, obviously, it would take WAY too much awesome investment to beat Jaedong in ZvZ, so he had to throw the game to save up for the MSL, and thus Oz kicked KTF out of the tourney even though Lux could possibly have saved them.
And then you have the MSL, through which he just went all out and said "Fuck it, I'm going to bleed my tank dry and get this damn title." He absolutely destroyed Zero and took Jangbi to task with what was 2 lopsided series, showing Jaedong-esque levels of ZvZ and ZvP. But it takes a lot to convincingly win an MSL, so his "awesome" tank has been dry as hell. He's barely got enough to stay alive in the leagues, so he just can't scrape the PL wins that SHOULD be easy for him.
FYI, Lux started out as a PL beast(he was the only zerg in the top 10 in the 2008 PL, IIRC).
Then KTF bought him.
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Yeah, he left all his skill to Leta and embraced the KTF "Tank of Awesome" method.
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EPT
