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United States47024 Posts
On March 20 2009 23:28 Boonbag wrote:
You have to take into account bisu's recent performances and past season. I mean, his schedule and owning has been insane. Fantasy kinda sniped him.
Eventho bisu kind of choked or was badlucky, you can't deny the possibility of one of these two players beeing in a much better condition than the other one.
The other thing to remember is that same-team games are always closer than stats would suggest. Two players that live together and practice together have a far better sense of each other than two different players, and this is much more of an advantage for the lesser player.
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On March 20 2009 23:50 IdrA wrote:
ya given the amount that he invested in it, 4 zeals 4 goons and a reaver, and the fact that fantasy opened fd and lost the tank and all the marines, the harass really should have done significant damage. he got a few tanks and forced scvs to pull, but really he didnt do any meaningful damage.
arbiter wasnt a bad choice. its a low resource map thats set up very well for timing pushes. that means terrans 99% gonna timing push and that if you break it you're 99% gonna win. expanding isnt the way to break pushes. he was too far behind to hold the push no matter what he did, but arbiter was his best bet. (just going 2 base 6 gate would be worthless since fantasy would see it and just not push, arbiter forces a reaction and tricks terran into thinking it widens the timing window)
Didn't do any meaningful damage? Are you kidding me? Fantasy had to defend with his SCVs and lost AT LEAST half of them in the process. In addition he lost at least 2-3 tanks, a lot of mining time, and some minor stuff. If I remember correctly there was also a reaver shot that killed another couple of SCVs later on. How can you call that anything but meaningful damage?
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Adelarge, you realize not a single person was claiming BISU IS BONJWA OMG before the game started? You're just being a trolling douche by making it seem like every thread is infested with Bisu fans (which is an insult now?) claiming that Bisu is on par with former greats. It happens in a few threads and it's usually idiot noobs, ignore it, don't blanket statement in an unrelated thread about it.
IdrA, thanks for the insight [:
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wow. im shocked. but ya, if anyone is going to know Bisu a little TOO much, it would be a team-mate. but i think we are all a little surprised by the outcome? no?
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On March 20 2009 23:39 Avidkeystamper wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2009 23:29 Showtime! wrote:On March 20 2009 23:18 Fr33t wrote:
Someone defeating Jaedong in a Bo5 ZvZ? That would be a pretty fucking big upset. No, actually it wouldn't. By.Hero has very good zvz too bud. Got to love ZvZ. NO he doesn't. Unless I missed games where he actually won.
Honest mistake, there has only been one of them. I beat another zerg in a ZvZ once too, guess that makes me pretty good. After facing jaedong though by.hero will probably never want to play a ZvZ again so enjoy that one win.
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United States10774 Posts
wow wtf happened. unexpected.
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HOLY SHIT
UNEXPECTED
the last player i expected to 3-0 Bisu was in this OSL was fantasy
wow...guess no Jaedong/Bisu OSL kickassness
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Fantasy reminded me of OOv Boxer play a lot.I started following pro scene back in 2002 so this is actually a great day for me :D
This fella has everything needed to be the next bonjwa!
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^
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HATERS START YOUR ENGINES
FLAAAAMEEE
-_-;
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On March 21 2009 00:18 pokerface wrote:
Fantasy reminded me of OOv Boxer play a lot.I started following pro scene back in 2002 so this is actually a great day for me :D
This fella has everything needed to be the next bonjwa!
AHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH
ROFL
the bonjwa train starts agaiiiinn
:3
it's been a while since i've seen a good TvZ on a major SL final
By.Hero/Jaedong vs Fantasy sounds pretty good to me
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On March 21 2009 00:13 OneOther wrote:
wow wtf happened. unexpected.
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All I can say is, Jaedong's OSL title-road has been paved smoothly.
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On March 21 2009 00:08 Mooncat wrote:Show nested quote +On March 20 2009 23:50 IdrA wrote:
ya given the amount that he invested in it, 4 zeals 4 goons and a reaver, and the fact that fantasy opened fd and lost the tank and all the marines, the harass really should have done significant damage. he got a few tanks and forced scvs to pull, but really he didnt do any meaningful damage.
arbiter wasnt a bad choice. its a low resource map thats set up very well for timing pushes. that means terrans 99% gonna timing push and that if you break it you're 99% gonna win. expanding isnt the way to break pushes. he was too far behind to hold the push no matter what he did, but arbiter was his best bet. (just going 2 base 6 gate would be worthless since fantasy would see it and just not push, arbiter forces a reaction and tricks terran into thinking it widens the timing window) Didn't do any meaningful damage? Are you kidding me? Fantasy had to defend with his SCVs and lost AT LEAST half of them in the process. In addition he lost at least 2-3 tanks, a lot of mining time, and some minor stuff. If I remember correctly there was also a reaver shot that killed another couple of SCVs later on. How can you call that anything but meaningful damage?
?
bisu spent 4 zeals and 4 goons to get that handful of tanks and the scv mining time. bisus expo started after his harass was cleared. he basically needed to kill a whole mineral line of scvs to have done meaningful damage. the zeal goon drop taking out tanks was only beneficial if it allowed the reaver to do damage. it didnt. when you have a full 2 base economy vs a probe cut 1 base economy you can replace your army much quicker than your opponent.
and no he didnt lose half his scvs in the process, just look at his mineral lines after he stabilizes.
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On March 21 2009 00:23 Qwertify wrote:
All I can say is, Jaedong's OSL title-road has been paved smoothly.
U will be suprised by the perfect mech play :D
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I really don't know how Fantasy doesn't have more fans. I mean his play is like the most entertaining to watch in the whole scene right now, and his tvt and tvp are really good.
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On March 21 2009 00:27 zhaoli86 wrote:
I really don't know how Fantasy doesn't have more fans. I mean his play is like the most entertaining to watch in the whole scene right now, and his tvt and tvp are really good.
I like fantasy a lot, actually. I just like Bisu more T_T
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United States13896 Posts
Fantasy I hate you and everything you stand for. A Bisu/JD final was the one thing I had left to truly look forward to this StarLeague season and you have to go and take it away from me. Now you'll just go on and choke in the finals, losing to Jaedong I'm sure.
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One bo3 series and you guys act like the world flipped upside down.
"Oh no, Bisu's career is over."
"Fantasy is the next Boxer."
Just no. You guys are more whimsical than a bunch of middle school girls. Trends and patterns aren't determined from a single series, although it might be the initial starting point of one. I'm sure Bisu will go back to kicking ass in the future because it's not like this is the first bo3 he's ever lost in his life.
3-0 was surprising, but as many pointed out, Fantasy does have the capability to perform well in TvP. In the previous OSL, he went toe to toe with a Stork who had, and arguably still has, the best TvP. And it wasn't because Stork played poorly, but rather because Fantasy upped his game.
End Results.
Sometimes, I wonder if some of the people who post here even watched the games. It's fine if you don't for whatever reason, but then do us all a favor and don't share your groundless conclusions with us. I'm tired of people who look at the final results of a series and then start spewing nonsense from that. The numbers are just a small fraction of the story behind a series. Did Player A lose because he played poorly or because Player B played exceptionally well? What kind of games did they play?
There's so much that remains unsaid from just the results of a series that it's downright stupid to make any conjectures without watching the games first.
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On March 21 2009 00:26 IdrA wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2009 00:08 Mooncat wrote:On March 20 2009 23:50 IdrA wrote:
ya given the amount that he invested in it, 4 zeals 4 goons and a reaver, and the fact that fantasy opened fd and lost the tank and all the marines, the harass really should have done significant damage. he got a few tanks and forced scvs to pull, but really he didnt do any meaningful damage.
arbiter wasnt a bad choice. its a low resource map thats set up very well for timing pushes. that means terrans 99% gonna timing push and that if you break it you're 99% gonna win. expanding isnt the way to break pushes. he was too far behind to hold the push no matter what he did, but arbiter was his best bet. (just going 2 base 6 gate would be worthless since fantasy would see it and just not push, arbiter forces a reaction and tricks terran into thinking it widens the timing window) Didn't do any meaningful damage? Are you kidding me? Fantasy had to defend with his SCVs and lost AT LEAST half of them in the process. In addition he lost at least 2-3 tanks, a lot of mining time, and some minor stuff. If I remember correctly there was also a reaver shot that killed another couple of SCVs later on. How can you call that anything but meaningful damage? ? bisu spent 4 zeals and 4 goons to get that handful of tanks and the scv mining time. bisus expo started after his harass was cleared. he basically needed to kill a whole mineral line of scvs to have done meaningful damage. the zeal goon drop taking out tanks was only beneficial if it allowed the reaver to do damage. it didnt. when you have a full 2 base economy vs a probe cut 1 base economy you can replace your army much quicker than your opponent. and no he didnt lose half his scvs in the process, just look at his mineral lines after he stabilizes.
Watch Jon747's youtube VOD. Between about 9:05 and 9:18 you can clearly see how many SCVs are dying to the goons and zealots. At 9:18 you can also get a glimpse at fantasy's mineral line. There's only a skeleton crew of SCVs mining, with basically no additional SCVs from the "defense force" left to resume mining.
The next glance you get at the mineral line is at 11:12, where the SCV count STILL doesn't look like it's supposed to. Only a few seconds later Bisu gets off a reaver shot killing another 5 SCVs.
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EPT
