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From the thread
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=83802¤tpage=51
On January 30 2009 22:15 Piste wrote:
Satanik 144-114-0 C ? I don't think so..
On January 30 2009 23:04 Coulthard wrote:
LoL this guy can't be serious..
On January 30 2009 23:13 Tarmak_mk wrote:
thats how sadly iccup is it~ they have lucky there are no other ladder
On January 30 2009 23:17 Oystein wrote:
lol wtf is up with the iccup admins?
But even worse, whats with monki?? Do he really think these guys needs to abuse to get to the ranks they are at?
On January 30 2009 23:26 SkelA wrote:
and thats the old good cheloman we all know and love!
Now Ive known sataNik for years and all the other players and I can truly say they are not ladder abusers. I believe Iccup admins need to be a bit more manner and stop the non sense of hearing someone go like this Monki guy: OMG look he played X games vs X guy ban him. I mean thats so childish. I really hope they start behaving better and also if there are rules like this to post it in the rules section. Its ridiculous to see admin say in that forum: We have these rules but we only know them and we dont have them written in rule section, I mean ROFL. I used to be a admin back in the old school days in NeoGame-i and ladder abuse was punished and we could clearly see who was abusing it by watching duration of a match, units made etc. Now that iccup has this on their site its quite obvious to tell if a game is an abused game or if it was legit. I mean come on, it clearly shows how many units produced, minerals mine, units killed, duration etc.
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Why don't they just change it so that when you've played a certain amount of times versus a person you just don't get points from him anymore, maybe reset it weekly/daily.
Banning or resetting all of their stats is just ridiculously stupid.
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this may sound kinda fucked up.
But generally I find admins barely speak enough english to get by and are extremely biased in all the cws Ive been in.
This is not surprising at all.....obviously the test for competency isnt required to become an admin. 
Im still banned from WGT forums after all these years because of retard admins . Theres no way satanik would abuse either and I didnt see anything written about playing a person a certain amount of times.
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They don't even have a rule against it,I checked the ladder-rules.Maybe they just expect from us to guess it.
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If the win / lose ratio is still around 40-60 % it shouldnt be a probleme to play more than 8 games against one of your friends ...
Especially @ high ranks when you actually lose points if you are only 50% win vs equal rank ( i'm right ? )
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intrigue
Washington, D.C9933 Posts
if i played almost 200 games on iccup and couldn't get out of D+, i'd try to bring everyone else down to me too
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United States4126 Posts
Monki's posts made me lol
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The other night I was playing with some BM flaming retarded kid and then he logged on his iccup admin account. Seriously the kid was suchhhhhh a retard. The application process is quite ridiculous for the level of prestiege given to them and thus hopefully reciprocated.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
I'd love to seem them ding savior with a penalty and a warning hahaha
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I dont see why some guy sat there seeing if people have abused or not, its not like it matters to him when hes like d
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On January 31 2009 01:07 Scaramanga wrote:
I dont see why some guy sat there seeing if people have abused or not, its not like it matters to him when hes like d
I dont see why admins are listening to that guy u mentioned.
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Gawd why does he have to be an Aussie -_-
They have a 50% win rate so obviously it is not getting them anywhere, but they can just use melee if they just want to practice within clan. Thing is, though, stats abusing is not allowed so even though they don't gain anything out of it they should be punished.
There is a "Report Stats Abuser' thread for a reason. Just because they don't quantify a limit on the number of games doesn't mean it is some miraculous loophole you have discovered and must be compelled to exploit.
Also, if you need to practice you don't have to do ranked ladder games all the time.
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the admins are dicks.....they know they are wrong but try to cover it up.
ENGLISH ONLY ADMINS PLEASE.
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Ok first off all I feel the need to say that I have great respect for what admins do, they work for the community without any pay\reward and do an important job making iccup run smoothly and keeping it THE place to play ladder.
However in these cases I think the admins have fucked up big time, there is nothing in the rules about amount of games to play vs someone. And when there aint you should atleast give a warning to people before they start penalizing them. When an admin punishes someone and write "There are a lot of rules which we keeps and is not showed." there is something seriously fucked up and wrong. And I was under the impression the max amount of games rule was there to stop people from abusing, not to stop people from playing lots of games vs each other, when its clearly not the case in these cases.
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what can i say more, i played all koreans i can i played vs any korean vs any foreigner i played chosen like a friend not wanted even thinked to abuse, only to get 300 points and after punished with -2500? cheloman is one of the most stupidest admins
and they send me warning where they delete last 8 games, and day after that + penlaty of -2500 pretty sad, i lost my free time to icc and after penalty because i "mass games" thx
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On January 31 2009 01:23 Oystein wrote:
However in these cases I think the admins have fucked up big time, there is nothing in the rules about amount of games to play vs someone. And when there aint you should atleast give a warning to people before they start penalizing them. When an admin punishes someone and write "There are a lot of rules which we keeps and is not showed." there is something seriously fucked up and wrong. And I was under the impression the max amount of games rule was there to stop people from abusing, not to stop people from playing lots of games vs each other, when its clearly not the case in these cases.
Whether there is a written rule or not it doesn't matter. If they are penalised for the 'stats abusing' games then it is fair. The website is still being updated and that doesn't mean "rules don't count" just because they haven't been added yet. If they abuse they get their points revoked and learn their lesson, and then they are no worse off than when they started because they should have done melee mode anyway. Why should they 'get away' with breaking the rules just because they didn't know it? This logic doesn't work in the real world (Sorry, I didn't know theft was illegal in this country! You can't punish me!), so stop complaining about it at iccup :/
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Its an abuse after 2 hours of games one player gets just +100 points,are you serious? And I dont see how hard it is to add 1 sentence in the faq / rules page even if the site is still ''being updated''
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Getting your points revoked is one thing, but did they gain 2k points from their series against clanmates? The admins should be able to remove those games only as part of the 1st offense, shouldn't they?
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On January 31 2009 01:32 Lamentations wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2009 01:23 Oystein wrote:
However in these cases I think the admins have fucked up big time, there is nothing in the rules about amount of games to play vs someone. And when there aint you should atleast give a warning to people before they start penalizing them. When an admin punishes someone and write "There are a lot of rules which we keeps and is not showed." there is something seriously fucked up and wrong. And I was under the impression the max amount of games rule was there to stop people from abusing, not to stop people from playing lots of games vs each other, when its clearly not the case in these cases. Whether there is a written rule or not it doesn't matter. If they are penalised for the 'stats abusing' games then it is fair. The website is still being updated and that doesn't mean "rules don't count" just because they haven't been added yet. If they abuse they get their points revoked and learn their lesson, and then they are no worse off than when they started because they should have done melee mode anyway. Why should they 'get away' with breaking the rules just because they didn't know it? This logic doesn't work in the real world (Sorry, I didn't know theft was illegal in this country! You can't punish me!), so stop complaining about it at iccup :/
Well if you as a foreigner do something wrong in another country chances are good you will get away with an warning since you didnt know about the rule (Im talking about something minor, not some serious crime that is obvious illegal), its not like they lock up tourist if they dont know about some obscure local rule, so no the logic works in the real world. And how can it be "stats abusing" when there is no written rule about it anyway, all they did was play lots of games vs eachother, they did not abuse the ladder to boost one of the players rank. Maybe they should have played their games in melee mode, but what about chosen vs octzerg did they also deserve it?
And as for Satanik hes just returned from a 1+year break and might not even know what rules they had at iccup before. so should he be punished for doing something that there is written nothing about in the official ladder rules?
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On January 31 2009 01:32 Lamentations wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2009 01:23 Oystein wrote:
However in these cases I think the admins have fucked up big time, there is nothing in the rules about amount of games to play vs someone. And when there aint you should atleast give a warning to people before they start penalizing them. When an admin punishes someone and write "There are a lot of rules which we keeps and is not showed." there is something seriously fucked up and wrong. And I was under the impression the max amount of games rule was there to stop people from abusing, not to stop people from playing lots of games vs each other, when its clearly not the case in these cases. Whether there is a written rule or not it doesn't matter. If they are penalised for the 'stats abusing' games then it is fair. The website is still being updated and that doesn't mean "rules don't count" just because they haven't been added yet. If they abuse they get their points revoked and learn their lesson, and then they are no worse off than when they started because they should have done melee mode anyway. Why should they 'get away' with breaking the rules just because they didn't know it? This logic doesn't work in the real world (Sorry, I didn't know theft was illegal in this country! You can't punish me!), so stop complaining about it at iccup :/
The difference is that (all non fascist) governments have a responsibility to list all laws and provide them to their people. While iccup is on a smaller scale, it would be expected to let the community know the rules so they don't have to ban people left and right without warnings. I can't believe you're arguing against this. Are you that Monki guy or what?
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I don't think they called it an abuse, one of the guys said these are the rules so it's not a bannable abuse, just an offense to the rules.
I guess it sucks to have stats deleted when you did nothing wrong, but I'm going to have to side with the rules. In a better world, the rules would be different and you would be allowed to play a lot more games, but the reality is that there are people who DO abuse the ladder and it's an IMPOSSIBLE task to reliable catch all of them. In this kind of environment, it's "guilty until proven innocent", so they have no choice but to make hard-coded and strict rules that you guys have to follow. I believe you guys didn't abuse. I also think penalties needed to be made. What if every abuser started complaining that they weren't abusing? I believe in you guys -- I bet you can find other ways to play each other right?
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On January 31 2009 01:46 StRyKeR wrote:
I don't think they called it an abuse, one of the guys said these are the rules so it's not a bannable abuse, just an offense to the rules.
I guess it sucks to have stats deleted when you did nothing wrong, but I'm going to have to side with the rules. In a better world, the rules would be different and you would be allowed to play a lot more games, but the reality is that there are people who DO abuse the ladder and it's an IMPOSSIBLE task to reliable catch all of them. In this kind of environment, it's "guilty until proven innocent", so they have no choice but to make hard-coded and strict rules that you guys have to follow. I believe you guys didn't abuse. I also think penalties needed to be made. What if every abuser started complaining that they weren't abusing? I believe in you guys -- I bet you can find other ways to play each other right?
There are no rules about it anywhere though.
Even if there is a new website..they could just fucking post an announcement on the front page or send a mass mail out to everyone.
They are full of shit. GL raping everyone at A/A+ that have no one to play with.
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On January 31 2009 01:32 Lamentations wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2009 01:23 Oystein wrote:
However in these cases I think the admins have fucked up big time, there is nothing in the rules about amount of games to play vs someone. And when there aint you should atleast give a warning to people before they start penalizing them. When an admin punishes someone and write "There are a lot of rules which we keeps and is not showed." there is something seriously fucked up and wrong. And I was under the impression the max amount of games rule was there to stop people from abusing, not to stop people from playing lots of games vs each other, when its clearly not the case in these cases. Whether there is a written rule or not it doesn't matter. If they are penalised for the 'stats abusing' games then it is fair. The website is still being updated and that doesn't mean "rules don't count" just because they haven't been added yet. If they abuse they get their points revoked and learn their lesson, and then they are no worse off than when they started because they should have done melee mode anyway. Why should they 'get away' with breaking the rules just because they didn't know it? This logic doesn't work in the real world (Sorry, I didn't know theft was illegal in this country! You can't punish me!), so stop complaining about it at iccup :/
Quoting SunGod: Only Koreans are allowed to mass play each other didnt you know??? Do u think they would give a savior a -2500 penalty? fuck no AND THEY BETTER NOT EITHER, stop trying to ruin this ladder admins
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On January 31 2009 01:46 StRyKeR wrote:
I don't think they called it an abuse, one of the guys said these are the rules so it's not a bannable abuse, just an offense to the rules.
Cheloman wrote:
Stop play against the same people or I will ban you.
It is definately bannable!
I should also be banned, I played like 12 games vs ahzz on the stamina ladder the same day!
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This random person, Monki, just went around looking at the highest ranking foreigners. He said oh wow they can't actually be good enough to play here. Look they played alot and gained what 100 points from it. Such abuse let me complain.
The admins instead of even telling the players "don't do this" and adding a rule on the webpage just gave a penalty for it and ruined the player's day. It wasn't abuse, there was no rule, the country analogy is horrible. If we go to russia and they arrest us for something they DONT have a rule for, its just them killing tourists. Please fix this...
From Iccup.Hasuw : Case has been taken care of. I gave you answeres. 1 more topic and ur both www banned.Report. PLEASE HELP --
From Iccup.HasuW : The penalty will remain. next time you will want to play a ZvZ's your going to do it on melle. As for the rulle snot being there we will added it. We did miss somethings while we switched www's but they were there before so please dont put up an argument that you didnt knew it.
At least he could learn english..
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look people, who gives a shit?
you play for practice, those points serve you nothing.it's an ego issue.
to avoid conflicts, create UMS games.
problem solved
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we were playing ladder games instead of melee cause if its ladder we try more to get the win and the games are more exciting. simple as that.
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United States42649 Posts
The way it's always worked is 5 ladder games a day at the D ranks, 7 at C, 9 and B, 13 at A. Any more than that and they get removed and you get warned. If you want to play more than that you have to melee.
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the problem is that they not warning us, just removed 8 games and after day + -2500 THATS THE PROBLEM!
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Kwark Admin told me
No more than 6 games between D- and D+
9 Games between C- and C+
12 Games between B- and B+
15 Games between A- and A olympic
ROFL YOU DONT EVEN KNOW. NO ONE DOES. MAKES ME LAUGH ^^
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wow wtf
chosen, did they really punish you and octzerg for playing just 17 zvzs? This is like 2 hours of gaming... the games are short and most of the time if two players want to replay zvz they can end up with 10games very easily imo...
kinda bs in this case imo
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QUoting the admin of iccup replying in the topic:
Yah and he played vs same ppl most of the time. Barely playing someone else. Also i dont realy care whom case referes too. We treat ppl the same no mather how much of a famous players they are.
Also if you want to play friends all the time go melle to get some practice. If you want some competitive gaming play vs various ppl not the same. Thats kinda the thing i see here. If you play vs same person from an outsider point of view it does look like an abuse.
QUOTE:
Admins didnt even send pms to ask for the replays as they do in many korean cases they just gave a penalty,no warning nothing
You seem to know much about how we handle cases with koreans. I don't recall doing that by any admin. Maybe in the past it was case like that.
Also as i mentioned before while we moved from 1 website to another something were lost and forgotten to be backuped. We are also humans you know not all knowing not godlike beings and we tend to forget things when building the same rules from scratch. Thats why this is not in the rulles and will soon be.
QUOTE:
Only Koreans are allowed to mass play each other didnt you know??? Do u think they would give a savior a -2500 penalty? fuck no AND THEY BETTER NOT EITHER, stop trying to ruin this ladder admins
Koreans don't realy have diffrent set of rulles. And may you give me an example of such case if it exists? You know CAT admins base their work on searching by logs for abuse cases and checking user reported ones. So either you got one u want to report or you are just saying random shit to backup this case.
As for the 1st post.
I don't know if you are aware of this but playing constantly vs same ppl getting wins and loses etc can get you higher in rank as well. Because when you lose games u lose less points (talking about D C B ranks). When you win u get more points. Adding to this a set of like 4-5 ppl you playing each other on diffrent ranks sometimes playing somoene else also can also be considered abuse. I am not saying you did this for sure since I cant know that and no one can only you yourself. And there is only so much trust we can put in users who in general, consantly decieve us. Thats why we are not biased as some say and we honestly try treat everyone the same. Thats why we wont add points for a game created when motw changed etc (there was a quite loud case of this recently). And thats only some of the things we do.
I hope this generaly explains this whole situation and no mather how much topics on tl.net it wont mather to us.
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with 6 games with same person on D ranks u can beat 2 guys for getting C-, after u beat 3 guys to get B-, after 2 ppl to get A- and if u skilled like Savior u beat 2 guys to get A+;;;(with full games)
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Anyways its not that sataNik or Octzerg or anyother person involved in this penalty wont go again in high ranks. I remember sataNik played 70 games in 2 days. he is a machine.
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No more than 6 games between D- and D+
9 Games between C- and C+
12 Games between B- and B+
15 Games between A- and A+
If you want to play more games then that, play melee and problem solved..
Its unfortunate that the rules werent transfered properly to the new site, but I think that most players, have seen or heard about that rule before, so it shouldnt come as a total surprise. For those that didnt this must come as a shock though, and that kinda sucks.
If you apply some logic to this, 2 friends could get to A- if they just played enough games, so there is a reason this rule excists.
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I tried to support you guys who got stat-owned. GL, I think the admins were wrong
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Netherlands4511 Posts
this stuff is ridiculous. retarded admins on a power trip. I can understand enforcing rules in stamina or TSL or when ur laddering for something that matters but jeez, this is stupid.
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On January 31 2009 01:32 Lamentations wrote:
Whether there is a written rule or not it doesn't matter. If they are penalised for the 'stats abusing' games then it is fair. The website is still being updated and that doesn't mean "rules don't count" just because they haven't been added yet. If they abuse they get their points revoked and learn their lesson, and then they are no worse off than when they started because they should have done melee mode anyway. Why should they 'get away' with breaking the rules just because they didn't know it? This logic doesn't work in the real world (Sorry, I didn't know theft was illegal in this country! You can't punish me!), so stop complaining about it at iccup :/
You are absolutely right that you cannot ask not to be punished because of your ignorance of the law. Which is why countries have freely available law books. You are expected to be informed enough about the country's laws so as to not break them. And that's precisely why it's essential that rules be written down and publicly available. You can very well say "I didn't know it was illegal." if you broke a law that you had no chance of finding out about in advance.
At the very least, if ICCup were hellbent on maintaining this rule, they should have immediately updated the rules section after the first penalty. To keep saying "Just because we didn't write it down, doesn't mean it's not a rule." and not informing people of it properly is absolutely moronic.
I'm surprised there isn't already more of an outrage about the issue. The way those admins are handling this is unbelievable, and they have no excuse for it.
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Iccup now has updated their site: http://www.iccup.com/starcraft/sc_ladder_rules.html
Quoting :
You are not allowed to play more than:
6 games between D- and D+
9 Games between C- and C+
12 Games between B- and B+
15 Games between A- and A olympic
Per day vs same person. However some may think that they could play 6 games today 6 tomorow (D ranks) and so on. Nothing more wrong. Those cases will be handled sepertly and most of the times probably penaltied. Since you can abuse you away into higher ranks with this method. Also cases of games played vs same friends across bigger peroids of time will be evaluated individualy. So if you feel like training with friends and gaining some rank with it you should just switch to melle.
Can someone explain to me in good written english what they are trying to say. Because at first they say that the games played is PER day, then they state that you cant do that... I mean its confusing...
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Well, of course it's understandable. If 2 friends just play together on the ladder, even if they're around the D level, if you're evenly matched, they can still reach B- or so.
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Isn't there a single admin at ICCup who speaks proper English?
Honestly, tl.net should just make its own ladder. With blackjack. And hookers!
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On January 31 2009 03:02 GeLaar wrote:
Isn't there a single admin at ICCup who speaks proper English?
Honestly, tl.net should just make its own ladder. With blackjack. And hookers!
i would play that
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Well, u are bound to follow iccup rules if u want to play on their server no matter how ridiculous the admins are. Its like tourists have to obey govt rules no matter where they are. Those that are unfairly accused just reset and rejoin using smurfed ids. Its not difficult to play back to same rank.
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On January 31 2009 03:07 Baddieko wrote:
Well, u are bound to follow iccup rules if u want to play on their server no matter how ridiculous the admins are. Its like tourists have to obey govt rules no matter where they are. Those that are unfairly accused just reset and rejoin using smurfed ids. Its not difficult to play back to same rank.
Pick any one of the replies to that flawed analogy, and read it.
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Sheesh. That's just kinda sad.
Points matter even for practice. If a C+ player got knocked down to D+, he'll have to play a bunch of players below his level before he can get some decent practice again.
Besides, it's the principle of the thing. Playing games with the same person isn't necessarily ladder-abusing, and there's nothing good about a system where one random guy who posts a message "omg this guy is ladder abusing link" can get someone penalized.
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United States3824 Posts
This is going to be another one of those things where people talk about how they are going to leave IC but in reality where are you going to go? WGT? You going to get that package and start your own ladder? I don't think so
If someone has a problem with IC they should take it up on that website. Or maybe PM one of the admins that have accounts here. But the wrong place to fight this battle
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It really needs time/effort/money to host something like Iccup. What Iccup is doing is great and I really applaud them, having flaws tho to their ladder rules is another different thing, We try to talk things over with them as in a discussion to see what suits the players and them best. Its not that we want to move out from it or go to WGT, besides iccup has many koreans and thats very very very good practice.
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ROFL, an admin gave me my points back because we discussed it, and it made sence. I gave him the replays, he watched it. Now I'm back with no points. ROFL Gotta get this fixed!
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I don't get why people are saying this isn't in the rules when it clearly is:
Playing against the same person too many times:
You are not allowed to play more than:
6 games between D- and D+
9 Games between C- and C+
12 Games between B- and B+
15 Games between A- and A olympic
Per day vs same person. However some may think that they could play 6 games today 6 tomorow (D ranks) and so on. Nothing more wrong. Those cases will be handled sepertly and most of the times probably penaltied. Since you can abuse you away into higher ranks with this method. Also cases of games played vs same friends across bigger peroids of time will be evaluated individualy. So if you feel like training with friends and gaining some rank with it you should just switch to melle.
I only read the first page, so I may not be the first to point this out, but it's worth pointing out. I'm not gonna take sides in the matter though, other than to mention this. It's easily found in Rules > Ladder Rules.
edit: looks like it was mentioned already. Though if they put it in after this whole fiasco started, as was implicated above, I'd say they're overstepping their bounds.
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Germany2896 Posts
On January 31 2009 04:50 Dromar wrote:I don't get why people are saying this isn't in the rules when it clearly is: Show nested quote +
Playing against the same person too many times:
You are not allowed to play more than:
6 games between D- and D+
9 Games between C- and C+
12 Games between B- and B+
15 Games between A- and A olympic
Per day vs same person. However some may think that they could play 6 games today 6 tomorow (D ranks) and so on. Nothing more wrong. Those cases will be handled sepertly and most of the times probably penaltied. Since you can abuse you away into higher ranks with this method. Also cases of games played vs same friends across bigger peroids of time will be evaluated individualy. So if you feel like training with friends and gaining some rank with it you should just switch to melle.
I only read the first page, so I may not be the first to point this out, but it's worth pointing out. I'm not gonna take sides in the matter though, other than to mention this. It's easily found in Rules > Ladder Rules. edit: looks like it was mentioned already. Though if they put it in after this whole fiasco started, as was implicated above, I'd say they're overstepping their bounds.
Internet pages can change, you know? Yesterday this wasn't in there. But some months ago it was there.
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On January 31 2009 04:53 MasterOfChaos wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2009 04:50 Dromar wrote:I don't get why people are saying this isn't in the rules when it clearly is:
Playing against the same person too many times:
You are not allowed to play more than:
6 games between D- and D+
9 Games between C- and C+
12 Games between B- and B+
15 Games between A- and A olympic
Per day vs same person. However some may think that they could play 6 games today 6 tomorow (D ranks) and so on. Nothing more wrong. Those cases will be handled sepertly and most of the times probably penaltied. Since you can abuse you away into higher ranks with this method. Also cases of games played vs same friends across bigger peroids of time will be evaluated individualy. So if you feel like training with friends and gaining some rank with it you should just switch to melle.
I only read the first page, so I may not be the first to point this out, but it's worth pointing out. I'm not gonna take sides in the matter though, other than to mention this. It's easily found in Rules > Ladder Rules. edit: looks like it was mentioned already. Though if they put it in after this whole fiasco started, as was implicated above, I'd say they're overstepping their bounds. Internet pages can change, you know? Yesterday this wasn't in there. But some months ago it was there.
Yeah, I just assumed it was there the whole time at first, because I checked it right after the new site came up, and it was there then, though I could have sworn the numbers were different (like 5 for D-C, 9 for B, 15 for A or something).
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I have always remembered the limit of playing the same players so many times being in the ladder rules for ICCUP in some form or another...
The last paragraph about playing the same player over a long period of time (and most important part) was added recently tho.
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how long wasnt the rule there? how long actually was the rule there before the "delete by omision of backing it up when upgrading the site"?
How long have the banned players actually being playing on iCCup? 1 year break? well was the rule there 1 year ago??? So he (and most of the players) should knew about that rule right? at least back then? how many players that take a break come back and read the rules again???
I think the iCCup are too rude handiling this problem, though I see they dont have other option, and to be honest I think they are right applying the rule.
They play a lot of games but was only for practice, they play that way cause they "feel" the pressure of the ranking. Well how can the admins know for sure that this is the case and that they arent abusing the ranks??? I think they just cant, even if we seem as "it is obvious"? well most of the mistakes humanity makes is cause people assume the answer instead of cold thinking. Admins just cant know for sure, they have no more choice than punish.
Think about it, on the other hand, all the players have prove before their skill, so getting back to that rank wont be hard, in fact all this "BS" will probable make them play harder to get back to the spot they deserve... maybe even improve more cause the extra motivation...
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On January 31 2009 06:05 kawoq wrote:
Think about it, on the other hand, all the players have prove before their skill, so getting back to that rank wont be hard, in fact all this "BS" will probable make them play harder to get back to the spot they deserve... maybe even improve more cause the extra motivation...
Sure its no problem getting back to their ranks, but spending 50-60 games bashing players they are superior too getting there might be annoying and feel like a waste of time that they could have used praccing against equally skilled players at their real level.
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Yeah, why don't all the admins speak English on that Russian-hosted service that caters to a truly international community *rolls his eyes*
Yes it was a problem that it wasn't in the rules, but now it is. I think it's a fair rule, and sure it is going to inconvenience some true practise partners who wouldn't be affecting their score anyway (as much as it can inconvenience when melee also won't affect score by much =p) but it is also going to stop basic ladder abusers.
EDIT: Well I just went and checked the links in the original post, and that Monki guy does indeed seem like a twat. He doesn't even try to hide his jealousy XDD
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I think that it should have been enough with a warning since the rule was absent for an unknown timeperiod and it was quite obvious that the games were played seriously and not freewins.
A thing that would easily fix the entire problem with this kind of "abuse" would be ELO. But I am the only one that likes that type of ladder so I guess It wont ever happend. There would still be possibility for freewins but friends of equal skill could play an infinity of games and still be at 1000points.
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It's kinda like the game where I couldn't make a complaint because I got an error for over 5 days in a row when trying to submit it. So I made a complaint in the complaint forum. I said "I am getting an error repeatedly, I know you want me to use the matchlist, I've tried many times, it won't work, so please don't close this thread and tell me to make a complaint with the matchlist."
The admin replied
"you can complaint in matchlist, thread closed" then he had an elaborate ASCII signature that took longer than the message.
I put a complaint about this admin in the complaint-about-admins-forum, and that got closed too. So I never got my points. For 3 games.
As for these idiotic rules, I'm sure some industrious person could just go through all the A+'s and get like 20 of them banned/points removed, since they are all playing one another dozens and dozens of games in a row. But no ICCUP admin would do that, because thats fucking STUPID. Same thing here.
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I got it fixed for me, Thanks admins 
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On January 31 2009 01:58 Excello.ChOseN wrote:
It wasn't abuse, there was no rule, the country analogy is horrible. If we go to russia and they arrest us for something they DONT have a rule for, its just them killing tourists. Please fix this...
You obviously didn't get it. The point is that there IS a rule against it but it is not WRITTEN FOR YOU ON THE FRONT PAGE. If you had asked an admin about it or bothered to check the forums you would find out. When you are in a new state/country with different laws do they have posters and billboards everywhere announcing laws that you might not be aware of for your convenience?
No, if you want to find out about them you have to be pro active and ask someone.
EDIT: Oh wait maybe you are talking about this other guy's analogy, nvm.
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lol, ret got forum banned for this comment:
"Can't you looik at their game list and respect the ammount of work they put into their ranks by playing a huge variety of people and maybe think for a second before you go ahead and ruin their hard work because omg they played practise games on ladder and went 10-10!!!! This would be the common sense approach.
Technically, no rules written down = no punishment. Just warn them and move on ffs."
WTF? just ridiculous
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Some of those admins are just fucking stupid. No common sense or logic.
P.S- cheloman is a cocksnot
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Cheloman has always been one of the oldest admins from pgtour days and now iccup and i apreciate his hard work for the community but i must say he is really a idiot with almost no english skills .
He has done this kind of things as long as i can remember and when he do it there is no force in the universe that can change his mind and will do all kinds of shit so he wont look like a retarded douche or just ban everyone that show him that he has done a bad decision .
Same thing he done with the rules adding the last paragraph just today so he can "excuse" his rampage with punishing tons of people just because they played 20 games in a period of a few days .
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If you're mass gaming and practicing why can't you play on UMS or melee? What is the issue here? The rules have been there for as long as I can remember, but when the new redesigned site came up, it was lost during the transition. The rules make sense. I don't understand the outrage.
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lol all get points back and me not? :O something wrong chosen is the only one who got points back?
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On January 31 2009 11:27 Scooge wrote:
If you're mass gaming and practicing why can't you play on UMS or melee? What is the issue here? The rules have been there for as long as I can remember, but when the new redesigned site came up, it was lost during the transition. The rules make sense. I don't understand the outrage.
I think someone answered it before
When you play for points it sortof gives you an extra motivation to win because you're playing for something.
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Shit load of kids apply admin for the sole purpose of having that little power over the ladder. A couple hours of handling ladder abuses and they can start abusing themselves. This "cheloman" isn't the first or the last piece of shit that can't bust a nut 'less some they overrule and reset some top foreigner. No matter how good, how well know you are, you still have to answer to them must give these kids a raging hard on. And if people challenge his authority and post in the thread? Ban them from the site! Fuck the ladder and all that it stands for.
Incompetent toddlers power-tripping, really nothing new.
Despite one of the most well kept ladder since pgt iccup has one of the most infantile, disorganized forum out of all foreign community sites. No need to bash ALL admins tho, some are obviously mannered and making an effort.
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On January 31 2009 00:47 Puosu wrote:
Why don't they just change it so that when you've played a certain amount of times versus a person you just don't get points from him anymore, maybe reset it weekly/daily.
Banning or resetting all of their stats is just ridiculously stupid. That would make sense actually. It would help clans practice against each other with no latency on ICCUP as well, just like in this case, with no fear of ridiculous reprisals. Sure, ICCUP is a ladder, but the ranking system only truly matters for 10-20 people. Everyone else the ranks are just used to judge weather they are improving or not. So while steps should be taken to ensure the ladder is legitimate, we should all step back and realize iccup is also a medium to get really good games, with other clans folk, and other people. A game.
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Man... speaking of rules changing, someone dropped at the 2 minute mark against me because I was cheesing (and it recorded as a loss). I reported it, and he got docked points, but I never got credited with any. I checked the rules and that rule is just gone.
This is way worse than that though.
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On January 31 2009 11:48 zer0das wrote:
Man... speaking of rules changing, someone dropped at the 2 minute mark against me because I was cheesing (and it recorded as a loss). I reported it, and he got docked points, but I never got credited with any. I checked the rules and that rule is just gone.
This is way worse than that though. admittedly one that I suppose is unenforceable simply because its impossible to prove, but is FUCKING annoying and happens a lot at the d level, is race switching. You think the player is going protoss, but he quickly switches to zerg and transitions into like, 3 hatch hydra or some bullshit. You scout last, and are impossibly behind because of a bad build order.
Ye know, I can understand denying the complaint I gave on that, but I actually got bm from the admins. Jesus.
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They took 3000points off of ALL of satanik's accounts? That's beyond fucking stupid.
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That really does suck. It hurts me that they'd do this to an old time gamer...
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haha I can't believe got banned from the site for this simple comment in that iccup thread:
"Omg get a life Monki."
He put that pretty mildly if you ask me. I appreciate most of the iccup admins because overall they do a great job but this guy was on a power trip.
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Honestly the whole rules bit with playing a person multiple times should not penalize players unless there is evidence of clear cut free wins etc. Even if it was a rule before, they should remove it now. Playing someone 15 times at A rank is allowed but not at a lower rank. Understandable that its because A ranks have less opponents but still: why should higher ranks be allowed to have more practice games versus the same person when lower ranks (who are exponentially greater in number and in higher need of practice games) are not? They posted something like 15 for A 12 for B forget the others probably like 9 and 6 maybe? How exactly can they ever come close to enforcing that rule? I bet someone isn't checking _EVERY_SINGLE_ACCOUNT_ and COUNTING games between players. To only enforce it to the few which are brought up when there are so many doing it.. where is the justice in that system?
What exactly is the purpose of that rule? Is playing legit practice games against the same person negative for anyone in anyway? It certainly isn't abuse. No need to regulate amount of legit games played its just insanity and impossible. Whenever admins penalize someone over this stupidity there will ALWAYS be an argument because the same logic will ALWAYS be valid.
Rules against abuse are one thing, rules monitoring the amount of games allowed to be played between two players are another. Only one is logical and should remain a rule.
To be honest this reminds me a lot of prohibition of alcohol in the United States. It was applied, no one followed it anyway and there are just way too many people to regulate so it ultimately failed. At least with prohibition they had logic for putting it in place and the government realized it wasn't working and repealed it.
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On January 31 2009 02:03 littlechava wrote:
sad response from admins
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U,U once i was winning a game and close to the end the guy activated a hack... the site drop him but the game didn't count ... i mean fuck i was going to win and he just put his hack on, and suddenly the game is discharge? Thats bullshit....
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holy shit these admits are sickeningly stupid, what the fuck is going on, does anyone on tl even know the head guys of iccup to fix this, seems like those admins are just horribly abusive, wow it never even happened to one of my accounts but this pisses me off
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oh and also, apparently if you play a game with someone and during the game iccup crashes and both of you lose connection but continue the game with a clear winner. It doesn't matter at all :\...
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why does it seem like the iccup admins think every single person is constantly trying to abuse for a higher rank in fact
"When you win u get more points. Adding to this a set of like 4-5 ppl you playing each other on diffrent ranks sometimes playing somoene else also can also be considered abuse. I am not saying you did this for sure since I cant know that and no one can only you yourself. And there is only so much trust we can put in users who in general, consantly decieve us. "
wtf is this who is constantly decieving them
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Pretty disgusting. I've only had good experiences with iccup admins so far, but eh this is ugly lol.
Seems to me that they should create a way for players to prove their innocence, like being able to show all the replays; justice conducted without the accused being able to defend themselves is not justice imo.
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On January 31 2009 18:20 Nightmarjoo wrote:
justice conducted without the accused being able to defend themselves is not justice imo.
^
^ ^
^ ^
wise words
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^
Haha, so much for equal treatment. ICCup seems to be THAT short in admin-manpower that they seem to have to hire power-hungry abusing retards as admins...
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They banned ret, rofl that will be on their tombstone.
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On February 01 2009 00:41 fanatacist wrote:
They banned ret, rofl that will be on their tombstone.
Really? Are you going back to WGT?
And the people complaining about Iccup admins not speaking English or doing a bad job, why haven't any of you volunteered to help? You're so good at leeching their free service and complaining, but not so good at contributing or volunteering. Even a casual read through of the complaints forums gives me a headache at the amount of stupidity the admins deal with so I cut them slack. I'd never want their job.
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Playing against the same person too many times:
You are not allowed to play more than:
6 games between D- and D+
9 Games between C- and C+
12 Games between B- and B+
15 Games between A- and A olympic
Per day vs. same person. However some may think that they could play 6 games today 6 tomorrow (D ranks) and so on but nothing more wrong. Those cases will be handled separately and most of the times probably penalized since you can abuse your way into higher ranks with this method. Also cases of games played vs. same friends across bigger periods of time will be evaluated individually. So if you feel like training with friends and gaining some rank with it you should just switch to melee. Also its forbidden to play vs. people that have the same IP as you(LAN houses etc.), here number of consecutive games vs that person won't even mather.
Banning playing with friends and team mates too many times is somewhat logical, as you can avoid general level of Icc.
However, if they are saying that they will assess individually each player's games in some cases, than they should not ban massgaming against the same player, if skill equals or is above his rank compared to overall Icc level.
And as the poster above me said, if you have limited resources than you have to follow the rules strictly in order to handle all complaints on time.
So just put on melee guys if you want to play each other
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I love how everyone and their mother loves to complain about ICCup admins and mistakes they make. Yes, they don't speak perfect English. Who cares? They are giving us a FREE ladder and all everyone can ever do is complain and be babies about a few mistakes of 1-2 ICCup admins. Everyone was going crazy when ICCup was down and some were thinking of quitting SC. How easy is it to improve on ICCup and get a game.
Yes, I do think they made a mistake and they should have warned Satanik/Chosen/OctZerg and if they decided to penalize them even before warning them then they should have only taken away the points they've gained winning those matches.
They made a mistake. It is as simple as that. A lot of people here are just jumping on the I Hate ICCup admins bandwagon. Most of these admins have done more for SC then most people here. They put in a lot of times checking complains and giving back ladder points and encoding the sites but they only get thanks when ICCup is down and when they make a mistake everyone jumps on them. I was an ICCup Ladder admin and its not easy work. Its really boring at times but they do it to help. Ease up on them. There not perfect. They make mistakes. Maybe someone can message Chelomon in his own language and explain it to him and he will undo what he did. Saying stupid things like admins are dumb will not change anything at all.
This is just my 2 cents.
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On February 01 2009 02:29 Yaqoob wrote:
I love how everyone and their mother loves to complain about ICCup admins and mistakes they make. Yes, they don't speak perfect English. Who cares? They are giving us a FREE ladder and all everyone can ever do is complain and be babies about a few mistakes of 1-2 ICCup admins. Everyone was going crazy when ICCup was down and some were thinking of quitting SC. How easy is it to improve on ICCup and get a game.
Yes, I do think they made a mistake and they should have warned Satanik/Chosen/OctZerg and if they decided to penalize them even before warning them then they should have only taken away the points they've gained winning those matches.
They made a mistake. It is as simple as that. A lot of people here are just jumping on the I Hate ICCup admins bandwagon. Most of these admins have done more for SC then most people here. They put in a lot of times checking complains and giving back ladder points and encoding the sites but they only get thanks when ICCup is down and when they make a mistake everyone jumps on them. I was an ICCup Ladder admin and its not easy work. Its really boring at times but they do it to help. Ease up on them. There not perfect. They make mistakes. Maybe someone can message Chelomon in his own language and explain it to him and he will undo what he did. Saying stupid things like admins are dumb will not change anything at all.
This is just my 2 cents.
Quite frequently CW's are fucked up too.
No doubt people a greatful about iccup....but some of the admins are terrible and give their friends and shit favorable decisions.
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Seems to me like you're just jumping on the I Hate People Who Hate ICCup Admins bandwagon.
Yeah they made a mistake, that's fine, but not only are they refusing to look into whether or not it was a mistake, they just auto-ban everyone who hinted they might've made a mistake lol.
edit: responding to Yaqoob
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On February 01 2009 00:41 fanatacist wrote:
They banned ret, rofl that will be on their tombstone.
Oh please, like anyone cares that another D- noob decided to boycott ICCUP for 1-2 admins stupid decisions
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On February 01 2009 00:51 Scooge wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2009 00:41 fanatacist wrote:
They banned ret, rofl that will be on their tombstone. Really? Are you going back to WGT? And the people complaining about Iccup admins not speaking English or doing a bad job, why haven't any of you volunteered to help? You're so good at leeching their free service and complaining, but not so good at contributing or volunteering. Even a casual read through of the complaints forums gives me a headache at the amount of stupidity the admins deal with so I cut them slack. I'd never want their job.
It seems to me that the admins, especially cheloman, will not change their views after a wrong decision is made, even with a healthy amount of evidence, and attempted discussion. It seems like having a respectful disagreement in opinion is a no-no on that forum. Perhaps I don't have the full story, but from reading that thread I saw these two posts:
ToT)ret( wrote:
Can't you looik at their game list and respect the ammount of work they put into their ranks by playing a huge variety of people and maybe think for a second before you go ahead and ruin their hard work because omg they played practise games on ladder and went 10-10!!!! This would be the common sense approach.
Technically, no rules written down = no punishment. Just warn them and move on ffs.
and then this one following a few posts down:
iccup.cheloman wrote:
I wont reverse my decision.
CASE CLOSED
Ret banned from forums
On teamliquid, ret's post would be considered perfectly acceptable, ESPECIALLY considering his reputation with the foreign community for both his character and contributions (most recently his tvz fpvod). The goal isn't to bash the iccup admins, but simply to try and help them do their job better. Listening to people like monki, whos posts make sick to my stomach, and seeing the admins almost blindly follow through with his recommendations to punish some of the foreign communities best people for practicing with each other too many times, which was not found in the forum rules, is completely silly. Hopefully they will see the error of their ways, and cooler heads will prevail.
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No one would give two shits if they fucked up and admitted their wrong doing and fixed it, but that is not the case. Instead they just want to suppress anyone who disagrees with their actions. It is utter bullshit and even though I rarely play now it still pisses me off.
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Germany / USA16648 Posts
that's just retarded, what the fuck
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They banned ret because he presented an argument?
What the fuck?
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Lol Cheloman = most retarded admin in retarded admin history, and I know how retarded admin decisions can get :p
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On February 01 2009 07:22 koreasilver wrote:
They banned ret because he presented an argument?
What the fuck?
they say something like if you arent directly involved dont post in their thread.
Dunno where cheloman is from but apparently discussing things isnt taught and being a prick is the norm. I hate people who think they have "power" and try to rub it in peoples faces :D
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On February 01 2009 06:48 tonight wrote:
No one would give two shits if they fucked up and admitted their wrong doing and fixed it, but that is not the case. Instead they just want to suppress anyone who disagrees with their actions. It is utter bullshit and even though I rarely play now it still pisses me off.
On February 01 2009 07:17 Carnac wrote:
that's just retarded, what the fuck
On February 01 2009 07:22 koreasilver wrote:
They banned ret because he presented an argument?
What the fuck?
Its their forum so they can ban whoever they want for whatever they want. Its the same at tl.net and ironically, people here have gotten banned for disagreeing with the majority/presenting an argument far more often than at iccup. Its funny to see people freak out about the injustice when they taste their own medicine at another forum.
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Germany / USA16648 Posts
I dare you to show me instances of tl.net banning people for presenting a reasonable argument and/or disagreeing with the majority.
The whole point of having a complaint forum becomes a farce when you are banned for presenting your case -.- (this is of course assuming there was no other reason, but as it is right now we can't draw any other conclusion.). That being said there's plenty of good admins but tbh it's not the first time I hear people rightfully complaining about cheloman and I don't even really follow what happenes on Iccup.
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On January 31 2009 16:34 HeavOnEarth wrote:
ok fine , fixed.
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On February 01 2009 08:17 damenmofa wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2009 06:48 tonight wrote:
No one would give two shits if they fucked up and admitted their wrong doing and fixed it, but that is not the case. Instead they just want to suppress anyone who disagrees with their actions. It is utter bullshit and even though I rarely play now it still pisses me off. Show nested quote +On February 01 2009 07:22 koreasilver wrote:
They banned ret because he presented an argument?
What the fuck? Its their forum so they can ban whoever they want for whatever they want. Its the same at tl.net and ironically, people here have gotten banned for disagreeing with the majority/presenting an argument far more often than at iccup. Its funny to see people freak out about the injustice when they taste their own medicine at another forum.
Bullshit. I've YET to see a person that's been banned for their opinions on TL.
Granted TL does do a bad job as presenting to the general public the reasons people get banned, but who has the time for that?
I mean , hell , by that logic you would be banned. but i doubt any admin is even going to think about banning ; probably too busy thinking of a counter arguement.
;edit;
Lol look at that, next page after i read your post, carnac posts a reply and not even a mention of a ban.
<3 tl.
</3 u.
the only discernible difference from iccup and TL is TL doesn't make shitty people admins that makes the rest of them look bad
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I dunno at what rank if any this thing occurs where you lose more points for a loss than you gain for a win, but if a significant number of games were played before this rank was reached between two players, that would raise their rank unfairly even if they had 50% vs each other. Two people who know they are of equal skill can just massgame together and rise through the ranks when wins are more significant than losses. Practice games should be played on melee for fairness' sake.
However if the games were played generally the correct number of times each day as according to the rules then it does seem possibly unfair to clean their stats. The rules must be fixed, at least. The purpose of the rules as applied to honest games doesn't even seem obvious. Players might even use the loophole to their advantage simply so that they can play games with friends and mass-game iccup at the same time, without realizing that it's unfair, or maybe not thinking it significantly unfair. After all the rules don't even object to it.
And the "true" rank of players like satanik shouldn't even be questioned, so that it's not really unfair for them to have achieved b or something no matter their methods, because it represents their skill level and thus keeps the ladder in working order; however the case of these "GeT" members might be different in that regard. And finally it should be considered, the amount that they actually abused relative to the amount of fairer ladder games they played, vs more various players.
But really the admins weren't necessarily being idiotic or abusive, in the case of lesser known and lesser skilled players. It does make sense sometimes to act on unwritten rules. And at least some of the hate in this thread directed at them is based on quite one-sided interpretations of their actions, if you actually read the iccup threads given on the first page with an open mind. Alot of that stuff could be interpretted as reasobly impatient and swift decision making, i think.
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
wtf is this shit, if there is some "rule" for max games vs a certain player, it should be simple to have server code maintain that and give 0 points for matches after a certain number X.
The fact that they dont even do that...
edit: oh wtf ret got banned?
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so just because we have no other place to go ladder they can treat people like shit and do whatever they want, and abuse their powers ? Most of these admins are stupid kids on a power trip, i know that icc is a service to the community and they do it for free, but its not like most of them sign up to help the community, most of them do it so they will have some power to wield and name recognition on the scene,
I know there are admins who do good hard work, and im glad that in most of my dealings with icc admins i have had the luck of running into the good ones, but i have also seen peoples perfectly valid complaint thread shut down for no reason, and after they try to get a explanation why, they get banned. And about their English, I don't think anyone expects them to be perfectly fluent, but if they are running a community site where people from all over the world play, they should at least be able to speak English so you have some idea what they said, I don't think its arrogant or anything to expect that of their staff, since after all English is the norm for communicating with people from other countries online, and it can be a real bitch trying to explain something to a admin that cant understand you, and vice versa, its not arrogance its just common sense.
And yeah, here on TL i dont think anyone has EVER been banned for simply coming a stating his opinion on some mater, in a polite constructive manner, banning ret made no fucking sense at all.
And that Monki person is such a fucking tool, looking at his posts makes me queasy, its like one of those kids in elementary school that rats on everybody to get in good with the teacher, and im sure hes not doing this for *justice* or the rules, he has a bone to pick.
I swear if this shit keeps going, i will look through all the matches of the top 50 players, and if any of them have violated this rule (and you can be sure some did) il post it and see if they will ban them, but i already know they wont.
and WTF is this rule ??
1.4. It is forbidden to float negative rumors and talk slanderously about the server and its players.
Punishment: Warning or Account lock.
So what ? If they see some of us posting here how we dont agree with what they are doing and its wrong, we will get banned too ? What the fuck is this, the gestapo ?
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aren't there any high iccup admins who see what a retard cheloman is and do something against it ?
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On February 01 2009 08:59 Carnac wrote:
I dare you to show me instances of tl.net banning people for presenting a reasonable argument and/or disagreeing with the majority.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=79902¤tpage=8
Hot_Bid: "presented argument in a reasonable way, no need to hide, nobody is gonna ban you"
Mani: "Spineless entity, ban!"
Now of course you might argue he got banned because of his motivations, but really the motivation of somebody else is just guesswork. Fact is he got banned for presenting a reasonable argument and disagreeing with the majority.
Else the iccup admins also could say they banned ret due to his motivation to undermine Iccup admins authority.
Let me make this clear, I find it ridiculous to ban ret for what he said, but I find even more ridiculous that tl.net people honestly think and say stuff like this has never happened at tl.net. You really think tl.nets admins are without fail? From all the bans over the years, not one was unjustified?? If you really think so you are naive...
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Wow, wtf damenofa, that ban was really truly unjustified. Watching the responses in that thread made me sick to be honest. I agree with the guy, and he presented his points way better than the admins who chose to just ignore his points or call him names like; a retard, a spineless entity or a hypocrite. Not once did he make a personal attack towards the admins, if someone deserved to get a ban in that thread it sure as hell wasn't him.
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What does ret have to do with anything? Is cheloman just trying to be as much of an asshole as he can?
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On February 01 2009 08:17 damenmofa wrote:
Its their forum so they can ban whoever they want for whatever they want. Its the same at tl.net and ironically, people here have gotten banned for disagreeing with the majority/presenting an argument far more often than at iccup. Its funny to see people freak out about the injustice when they taste their own medicine at another forum.
What the fuck are you talking about? How long have you been here?
Cheloman makes tl admins look like absolute saints by comparison.
On February 01 2009 08:17 damenmofa wrote:
I find it ridiculous to ban ret for what he said, but I find even more ridiculous that tl.net people honestly think and say stuff like this has never happened at tl.net. You really think tl.nets admins are without fail? From all the bans over the years, not one was unjustified?? If you really think so you are naive...
No, TL would have never banned someone like ret for simply speaking out, for one post. Go look in the closed ban threads, people are repeatedly given 2nd chances through warnings, temp bans. Mistakes have happened in the history of tl, but you can't compare that to what cheloman did, which was intentional, malicious, and serves only to cover his own ass. You don't make sense. Stop digging a bigger hole for yourself.
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On February 02 2009 00:20 Supah wrote:
Wow, wtf damenofa, that ban was really truly unjustified. Watching the responses in that thread made me sick to be honest. I agree with the guy, and he presented his points way better than the admins who chose to just ignore his points or call him names like; a retard, a spineless entity or a hypocrite. Not once did he make a personal attack towards the admins, if someone deserved to get a ban in that thread it sure as hell wasn't him.
I believe if he had pm'd a mod or even started a blog, as suggested by HB, he would not have been banned. The ban was somewhat questionable if you look only at his post, but when you consider the repercussion, a flame war started in a charity thread, it becomes more understandable. I think a more appropriate response would be to ask him to edit his post, and repost through a more suitable venue, and try and avoid a big fight in a charity thread. If he still picked a fight in the wrong area, then ban. As it was, it was not a shining moment in the tl mods history of bans, but there were reasonable causes for banning.
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Why not just host with free for all or whatever, if you're gonna play the same guy over and over.
I've used iccup as a host for private games a lot of times, and I always host FFA.
I honestly don't see the problem, the admin has got a point - you lose more points than you gain, so in the end you'll end up higher rated with 50\50 win\lose ratio.
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On February 02 2009 01:10 alphafuzard wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2009 00:20 Supah wrote:
Wow, wtf damenofa, that ban was really truly unjustified. Watching the responses in that thread made me sick to be honest. I agree with the guy, and he presented his points way better than the admins who chose to just ignore his points or call him names like; a retard, a spineless entity or a hypocrite. Not once did he make a personal attack towards the admins, if someone deserved to get a ban in that thread it sure as hell wasn't him. I believe if he had pm'd a mod or even started a blog, as suggested by HB, he would not have been banned. The ban was somewhat questionable if you look only at his post, but when you consider the repercussion, a flame war started in a charity thread, it becomes more understandable. I think a more appropriate response would be to ask him to edit his post, and repost through a more suitable venue, and try and avoid a big fight in a charity thread. If he still picked a fight in the wrong area, then ban. As it was, it was not a shining moment in the tl mods history of bans, but there were reasonable causes for banning.
Yeah but should he be held responsible for the fact that some (mods) decided to flame him? It wasn't a flamewar before those opposing decided to jump his throat. In general they do a way better job than iccup mods, off course, but that one was unjustified.
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When I play a game my opponents get dropped every single time, when i close my launcher down and restart then it's working fine for one game, then when i start the 2nd game, the problems starts again with my opponents getting dropepd!
I have to repeat this step everytime I wanna play on iccup!
Any solutions please?
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On February 01 2009 23:48 damenmofa wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2009 08:59 Carnac wrote:
I dare you to show me instances of tl.net banning people for presenting a reasonable argument and/or disagreeing with the majority.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=79902¤tpage=8Hot_Bid: "presented argument in a reasonable way, no need to hide, nobody is gonna ban you" Mani: "Spineless entity, ban!" Now of course you might argue he got banned because of his motivations, but really the motivation of somebody else is just guesswork. Fact is he got banned for presenting a reasonable argument and disagreeing with the majority. Else the iccup admins also could say they banned ret due to his motivation to undermine Iccup admins authority. Let me make this clear, I find it ridiculous to ban ret for what he said, but I find even more ridiculous that tl.net people honestly think and say stuff like this has never happened at tl.net. You really think tl.nets admins are without fail? From all the bans over the years, not one was unjustified?? If you really think so you are naive...
I don't want to drive this further offtopic, but I should mention that what you linked was a guy who admitted that jt isn't his main account. One of the TL commandments is "Respect your ID". I'm too lazy to look through the ban thread, but I'd guess that the account was banned because you aren't allowed to have multipile forum accounts.
Back on topic, the whole banning of ret is kind of stupid. There were other a lot of others complaining about the same thing in that iccup thread, and none of them were banned. I don't know that chelomen guy ouside of what I've read in this thread, but he seems like a complete tool. Does iccup have a heirarchy of amins? Can someone issue a complaint to a higher power, or is he the higher power? That rule about spreading rumors about iccup is hilarious.
Edit: lol, I can't read, the guy from the auction thread wasn' banned at all.
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On February 01 2009 07:52 Sadist wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2009 07:22 koreasilver wrote:
They banned ret because he presented an argument?
What the fuck? they say something like if you arent directly involved dont post in their thread. Dunno where cheloman is from but apparently discussing things isnt taught and being a prick is the norm. I hate people who think they have "power" and try to rub it in peoples faces :D
He has always been a retard even since the PGT days, I have had several arguments with him and also been banned from PGT back when it existed.
He is from Argentina, has like over 40 years old, is the founder of LG) "latingamers" and currently lives in Barcelona.
HE is a prick who doesnt care what others say, if he fucks up and knows about it he wont care and act like a freaking dictator.
And damenmofa stop acting like a troll, this is about Iccup and Cheloman's stupidness, not about teamliquid, whose admins are way superior and often give warnings even before banning dont even dare to draw attention away from Iccup's stupid admins.
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On February 01 2009 22:49 bioboyAT wrote:
aren't there any high iccup admins who see what a retard cheloman is and do something against it ?
The only people above him are other retards/his friends/too lazy. I believe. He has always been irrational. And I believe anyone with that much control should have fluent control of the english language, unlike his choppy garbage. God damn.
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They didn't ban ret. They banned him from posting on their forums. It's a minor, but very important distinction. ret's comments just added to the flames already on their forums and they wanted it to stop. Regardless of what ret said I can respect that.
And to the guy who said it was easy to just add a whole new system of checks to auto enforce the games per player rule, I'd really like to see you modify PVPGN and submit the code to Iccup to review and add.
This thread is pretty ridiculous. We have someone a few posts up comparing Iccup to the Nazi regime. I think some of you are blowing this way out of proportion because the players this hit are your friends or countrymen or someone semi-famous in the community.
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On February 01 2009 23:48 damenmofa wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2009 08:59 Carnac wrote:
I dare you to show me instances of tl.net banning people for presenting a reasonable argument and/or disagreeing with the majority.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=79902¤tpage=8Hot_Bid: "presented argument in a reasonable way, no need to hide, nobody is gonna ban you" Mani: "Spineless entity, ban!"Now of course you might argue he got banned because of his motivations, but really the motivation of somebody else is just guesswork. Fact is he got banned for presenting a reasonable argument and disagreeing with the majority. Else the iccup admins also could say they banned ret due to his motivation to undermine Iccup admins authority. Let me make this clear, I find it ridiculous to ban ret for what he said, but I find even more ridiculous that tl.net people honestly think and say stuff like this has never happened at tl.net. You really think tl.nets admins are without fail? From all the bans over the years, not one was unjustified?? If you really think so you are naive...
First, it was kennigit who banned him, at least try and do some research before spraying bullshit.
Also, have you even read the guys 4 posts; he had no "reasonable arguement", and a post like that had no place in that thread- completely out of line.
ASIDE from that, his main account isn't even banned?
i mean seriously if this is the "best", or worst; you can find , you're just helping TL with their image, as with iccup you could find 100x worse things.
Stop trying to nitpick, it's just childish.
you're missing the ENTIRE point of this- trying to improve iCCup admin standards- not trying to lower TL's so that iCCup's (the bad admins) might actually seem somewhat decent.(lol?)
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Germany / USA16648 Posts
On February 01 2009 23:48 damenmofa wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2009 08:59 Carnac wrote:
I dare you to show me instances of tl.net banning people for presenting a reasonable argument and/or disagreeing with the majority.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=79902¤tpage=8Hot_Bid: "presented argument in a reasonable way, no need to hide, nobody is gonna ban you" Mani: "Spineless entity, ban!" Now of course you might argue he got banned because of his motivations, but really the motivation of somebody else is just guesswork. Fact is he got banned for presenting a reasonable argument and disagreeing with the majority. Ughhhhhh, maybe you should have looked more closely, because children_in_need was never banned, making your example completely invalid :p
Only children_in_need_2 was banned, and this for the simple fact that we don't allow multiple accounts. That being said he started off with a lot of BS in his argument, but let's not get into this whole discussion again.
Else the iccup admins also could say they banned ret due to his motivation to undermine Iccup admins authority.
Let me make this clear, I find it ridiculous to ban ret for what he said, but I find even more ridiculous that tl.net people honestly think and say stuff like this has never happened at tl.net. You really think tl.nets admins are without fail? From all the bans over the years, not one was unjustified?? If you really think so you are naive...
Do you think I'm stupid? I'd never say that we are without fail, we cannot be, after all we are human.
It's just that your wording on page 5 made it sound as if "injust" bans (for disagreeing with us or w/e) were a common occurrence on TL and that's just wrong. It's so wrong that it makes me angry.
I strongly believe in transparency and I know the vast majority of the staff does. This is one of the reasons why we have a public ban list, most internet forums don't even have such a thing.
We don't ban for reasonably voiced opinions and criticism, period. + Show Spoiler +and no - stuff like racism doesn't belong in the category of a reasonably voiced opinion. just saying this to avoid people who want to be smartasses -.-
You can't read the staff forum, so let me just say that we regularly discuss bans, which also leads to unbans, shortening of ban periods, ...
This thread is about Iccup though, it shouldn't derail into a TL banning policy discussion thread, so I am ending it for this thread.
Feel free to voice your opinion on bans and whatever else in the website feedback forum if you still feel the need to.
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I will just say that Iccup rocks, eventhough it may have flaws, its just so freakin great that iccup excists. Iccup keeps foreign bw breathing. Iccup cannot run without admins, I havent seen a direct link to the excact post where ret was banned, but in general, admins sometimes comes to a point where they just have to say, "This is how it is, deal with it, or get banned" im not 100% sure this was what happened, but if admins allow people to undermine and discuss their decisions over and over again, things might spiral out of control.
Ret proves a valid point indeed, and maybe if he had been "earlier" with his post, he wouldnt have been banned at all, so sometimes people are treated unfairly just by accident. There are often extra circumstances that must be seen. People seem to not want to understand the entire discussion, and/or also try to see it from their point of view.
People are making too big of a deal out of this. The rule was stated in the "old iccup" site, and it was there when these guys signed up, and they all probably knew about that rule. Ofcource it sucks, that these guys put in alot of hard work, to get it taken away, but thats life I guess, brutal 
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Germany2896 Posts
Just to be fair: ICC has a rule that only the concerned players&admins may post in a "complaint about admin" thread. And ret's post was rather inflammatory.
I still dislike their policy concerning criticizing admins, but ret's forumban was not completely unwarrented.
IMO they should discuss the rules with the community and then adjust them as it seems like they don't reflect the general opinion on what is abuse.
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Netherlands4511 Posts
Life is tough when you are banned on the iccup forums...
How will I get back at all these discers, can't make complaints, and it's like all these little shits know I'm banned, so they disc against me cause I can't do nothin about it.
oh my what have i done
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On February 02 2009 09:01 ret wrote:
Life is tough when you are banned on the iccup forums...
How will I get back at all these discers, can't make complaints, and it's like all these little shits know I'm banned, so they disc against me cause I can't do nothin about it.
oh my what have i done
 poor ret
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On February 02 2009 09:01 ret wrote:
Life is tough when you are banned on the iccup forums...
How will I get back at all these discers, can't make complaints, and it's like all these little shits know I'm banned, so they disc against me cause I can't do nothin about it.
oh my what have i done
Seriously the only thing you can do is suck up to some sort of head admin. Pick a really egotistical bastard and write an apologetic essay talking about how he's such a great admin blah blah blah.
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Netherlands4511 Posts
I was being sarcastic
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oh
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Frankly, I am not the least bit surprised ..
I had an ordeal with them recently when a D protoss accused me of using "allied mines" trick (which should be allowed, btw, imo. Comp. hold lurkers)
During the match - he was getting raped badly in every orifice - he starts writing different things in the chat, among them were "you use allied mines!", this made me chuckle and I replied "lols yes, ofc!" he then answered "ok, I report you" and left the game.
A poor player I might be, but this I know: nothing will come of this even if he made good on his promise, as players are physically unable to ally anyone in one on one mode, so he would only be wasting his time/energy on writing a complaint/sending the replay.
This is where the story should end, but guess what! Brilliant iccup trial AND super admins thought otherwise, however, and granted the complaint! I lost awarded pts, got warned and was told that "it was clearly allied mines," and that "I was lucky that it was a good day for him because he would have banned me otherwise, etc"
So, off to the "complain about an admin" forum I go and wait a couple of days before someone even higher up the echelon sees this thread. He decides that he will do some "testing" before he can make a decision. Meanwhile, I am being told by the admin who granted the complaint that I should stop lying and be happy that they are not going to ban me and that he is sticking by his decision.
After many days, and much testing they conclude that you, indeed, cannot ally someone in one on one mode. The match results are reversed once again, I am told that they will inform the rest of the staff and noone is punished in the end. After all, "how could they possibly know!?"
Makes me wonder -- is playing (or having played) starcraft even a requirement for becoming an iccup admin and did they set the IQ limit for admins at 70?
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TL should make their own ladder? << Thats what I think. Plus the admins won't be gay.
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On February 02 2009 10:11 meathook wrote:
Frankly, I am not the least bit surprised ..
I had an ordeal with them recently when a D protoss accused me of using "allied mines" trick (which should be allowed, btw, imo. Comp. hold lurkers)
During the match - he was getting raped badly in every orifice - he starts writing different things in the chat, among them were "you use allied mines!", this made me chuckle and I replied "lols yes, ofc!" he then answered "ok, I report you" and left the game.
A poor player I might be, but this I know: nothing will come of this even if he made good on his promise, as players are physically unable to ally anyone in one on one mode, so he would only be wasting his time/energy on writing a complaint/sending the replay.
This is where the story should end, but guess what! Brilliant iccup trial AND super admins thought otherwise, however, and granted the complaint! I lost awarded pts, got warned and was told that "it was clearly allied mines," and that "I was lucky that it was a good day for him because he would have banned me otherwise, etc"
So, off to the "complain about an admin" forum I go and wait a couple of days before someone even higher up the echelon sees this thread. He decides that he will do some "testing" before he can make a decision. Meanwhile, I am being told by the admin who granted the complaint that I should stop lying and be happy that they are not going to ban me and that he is sticking by his decision.
After many days, and much testing they conclude that you, indeed, cannot ally someone in one on one mode. The match results are reversed once again, I am told that they will inform the rest of the staff and noone is punished in the end. After all, "how could they possibly know!?"
Makes me wonder -- is playing (or having played) starcraft even a requirement for becoming an iccup admin and did they set the IQ limit for admins at 70?
bwahahahaa thats great
i dont know whats better
the fact that a admin actually cleared that
or that there's an actual "complain about an admin" forum
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ret cant you just transfer and play on other names, so you can report discs/etc..
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oh god, oh dear god, its 2:30 at night i really shouldn't be laughing so hard, my parents might come check on me, but this is gold haha.
*After many days, and much testing they conclude that you, indeed, cannot ally someone in one on one mode. The match results are reversed once again, I am told that they will inform the rest of the staff and noone is punished in the end. After all, "how could they possibly know!?"*
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I think the problem was that BIG advertisement on the front page looking for admins. I can't imagine some of the 12 year olds that must have gotten through.
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Just because I completely disagree with ICCup's decision in this case, and this thread seems to be going off-topic to the point of no return, I'd like to point it back in a constructive direction.
ICCup has a rule stating that you can only play against players a certain number of times regardless as to if they are legit or not.
Not only is it somewhat unjust to allow higher ranks play more games against the same people (it's harder to rank up at higher ranks so why allow them to pick on weaker links more, etc? [even though they do have less opponents at higher ranks]), but ICCup admins do not enforce this rule to everyone (even if it is their intention). The fact is they just don't have the manpower to go and check every_single_account from A+ to D- and count out the games played in each series against certain players (and verify that they were played within an illegal time frame). And what about playing the same person in 20 LEGIT games BUT the person switches between 4 accounts? That qualifies as playing the same person an illegal amount of times; so do admins check IPs of the opponents of all players?
Honestly it's just a bogus rule. ICCup is a competitive ladder and if people want to play an extended series of legit games, why not allow it? It just doesn't make logical sense to PUNISH someone who is playing more games just because it's against one person. Yes, yes of course if the games aren't legit or there is suspicion of cheating it could and should be investigated. But we're talking not only about the average Joe, but reputable players being penalized in hard earned points just because they played a few games over a nonsense game limit.
It is my personal opinion that the rule be removed. It has no logic to be in place and being that it wasn't_even_written_down on the new site, I seriously doubt the majority were following it before (or even knew about it, for that matter), and I doubt they will even follow it now. And don't comeback saying "well just because people don't follow it, doesn't mean it shouldn't be a rule", because that isn't my main point. This rule is not required. Its presence prevents nothing negative and its absence would only allow just freedom in playing more amounts of games against opponents. You might say "well it prevents abuse". Do you really think if people intended to abuse (which is illegal no matter what) that they'd think better of it just because there's a rule in place limiting games against opponents?
And to those who keep saying "The admins are doing the best they can, stop hating", this is the wrong time. This isn't about flaming admins unjustly, it's constructive feedback about a current rule. This isn't putting down admins and the only thing it's asking of them is to simply remove a few lines of text from their rules which need not apply to the legit gamers of the StarCraft community.
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If you and I are 100% equally good at bw lets say we are both D- in skill, meaning we win 50/50 each and we just play each other, we will eventually reach B+. That is what this "bogus rule" is supposed to prevent. in this case however there was no rule agaisnt playing the same opponent a lot over several days, that is something they added afterwards to justify their own decision. Having such a rule makes sense though.
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On February 02 2009 10:11 meathook wrote:
Frankly, I am not the least bit surprised ..
I had an ordeal with them recently when a D protoss accused me of using "allied mines" trick (which should be allowed, btw, imo. Comp. hold lurkers)
During the match - he was getting raped badly in every orifice - he starts writing different things in the chat, among them were "you use allied mines!", this made me chuckle and I replied "lols yes, ofc!" he then answered "ok, I report you" and left the game.
A poor player I might be, but this I know: nothing will come of this even if he made good on his promise, as players are physically unable to ally anyone in one on one mode, so he would only be wasting his time/energy on writing a complaint/sending the replay.
This is where the story should end, but guess what! Brilliant iccup trial AND super admins thought otherwise, however, and granted the complaint! I lost awarded pts, got warned and was told that "it was clearly allied mines," and that "I was lucky that it was a good day for him because he would have banned me otherwise, etc"
So, off to the "complain about an admin" forum I go and wait a couple of days before someone even higher up the echelon sees this thread. He decides that he will do some "testing" before he can make a decision. Meanwhile, I am being told by the admin who granted the complaint that I should stop lying and be happy that they are not going to ban me and that he is sticking by his decision.
After many days, and much testing they conclude that you, indeed, cannot ally someone in one on one mode. The match results are reversed once again, I am told that they will inform the rest of the staff and noone is punished in the end. After all, "how could they possibly know!?"
Makes me wonder -- is playing (or having played) starcraft even a requirement for becoming an iccup admin and did they set the IQ limit for admins at 70?
You have got to be kidding me.
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On February 02 2009 11:38 Supah wrote:
If you and I are 100% equally good at bw lets say we are both D- in skill, meaning we win 50/50 each and we just play each other, we will eventually reach B+. That is what this "bogus rule" is supposed to prevent. in this case however there was no rule agaisnt playing the same opponent a lot over several days, that is something they added afterwards to justify their own decision. Having such a rule makes sense though.
Why not just make it so that after a certain amount of games vs one player, you simply stop earning points? One of our programming gods (R1CH, MasterOfChaos, etc.) could add that to rank system in about 5 seconds.
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lol you could easily abuse iccup while staying in the rules, playing vs same person but only 6 games a day or whatever the limit is, and playing no other games, the person could just make a new name every time or whatever. That wouldn't break any actual rules would it?
Nice story above. You can't make this stuff up lol.
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On February 02 2009 07:14 Scooge wrote:
They didn't ban ret. They banned him from posting on their forums. It's a minor, but very important distinction. ret's comments just added to the flames already on their forums and they wanted it to stop. Regardless of what ret said I can respect that.
And to the guy who said it was easy to just add a whole new system of checks to auto enforce the games per player rule, I'd really like to see you modify PVPGN and submit the code to Iccup to review and add.
This thread is pretty ridiculous. We have someone a few posts up comparing Iccup to the Nazi regime. I think some of you are blowing this way out of proportion because the players this hit are your friends or countrymen or someone semi-famous in the community.
What the hell? who is comparing ICCUP to that? was the word "Nazi" even mentioned?
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On February 02 2009 12:04 Nightmarjoo wrote:
lol you could easily abuse iccup while staying in the rules, playing vs same person but only 6 games a day or whatever the limit is, and playing no other games, the person could just make a new name every time or whatever. That wouldn't break any actual rules would it?
Nice story above. You can't make this stuff up lol.
Then you can come up with some new system.
For example, every time someone hits the 10 game limit with one player, or whatever, he gets a point. After 5 points, an admin is automatically notified and the player investigated.
Players don't have to be informed of the specific numbers, so that barely skating around the rules doesn't happen, but just informed of the theory. The post in the rule book could be something like, "Don't abuse the ladder by playing an overt number of games with a certain player. For practice games, please use melee or use map settings."
Just an idea.
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On February 02 2009 11:38 Supah wrote:
If you and I are 100% equally good at bw lets say we are both D- in skill, meaning we win 50/50 each and we just play each other, we will eventually reach B+. That is what this "bogus rule" is supposed to prevent. in this case however there was no rule agaisnt playing the same opponent a lot over several days, that is something they added afterwards to justify their own decision. Having such a rule makes sense though.
This is true, HOWEVER I don't think just on the off chance you play 200 games with the same person as training that they should completely get rid of the ability to punish people who play each other a lot. I think that can be handled on a case by case basis. There argument makes sense only if people mass playing 1on1 (literally like 200 games) was a common thing that happened on the server. Which just don't happen too often if at all, so I don't believe that justifies the rule itself.
Obviously you should warn players who do that, tell them to play on other accounts or play other players then deduct their points accordingly. I understand that it might not be fair for known players to be treated different, but they should be. When you are an upper tier player its harder to find games and you tend to train with the same group of people, which increases the chances of you gaming with them on iccup and playing a lot of games. They shouldn't be punished for that.
However when its found in like D/C ranks, I think it should be treated a little more strictly since I don't think most C/D players bond and create training partners the way upper tier players do. At least in the same competitive environment as the A/B players do.
But yeah, I think ICCup admins are retarded for the most part, I never liked Chelomon even when I was an admin on there for a few months when it first opened. He is a narrow minded douche who doesn't change his opinion even when he is wrong. It was frustrating talking to him in admin forums since he was such a dumb ass especially as a super admin, I don't know why they ever gave him that level of power/authority.
However, I think we also need to respect what unk/yelloant do to maintain the the server, and the admins who do tech work. They are the ones who truly keep ICCup going, I don't think we need to respect all the admins for that, the idiotic ladder admins like Chelo and that other ban crazy guy just suck and make people sometimes overlook the hard work that Unk and YelloAnt put into the server, because of their pigheaded ways of dealing with issues.
If people have a really big problem with this, then you can become an admin. Just 1-2 hours of work for it a week and you can fix a lot of problems and help out the community, if 10 of the people who bitched about how shitty ICCup admins are just spent 1-2 hours a week as an admin reviewing complaints, you could get a lot of work done. While the current ladder admins are retarded a lot of the time, they are also working for free (even if its just because SOME of them enjoy the power)
Just think about it this way, when you are idling in ICCup chatting with some friends, you could be doing some Admin work. Chaos launcher has this nice little plugin that allows you to window starcraft, so you can watch the screen as you read forums :D I know I spend a lot of time chatting on starcraft which I could be doing admin work and helping out the community, but I don't.
My reasoning behind that is that I do not ladder a lot, and I don't really care about the ladders problems/flaws/corrupt admins. It doesn't effect me since I don't competitively game anymore, just a few casual games with friends here and there. But my words were directed towards those play a lot and are complaining about the server.
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I don't think that they should have rules that are set in stone, but just general guide lines and they should judge each case differently.
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On February 02 2009 12:40 PaeZ wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2009 07:14 Scooge wrote:
They didn't ban ret. They banned him from posting on their forums. It's a minor, but very important distinction. ret's comments just added to the flames already on their forums and they wanted it to stop. Regardless of what ret said I can respect that.
And to the guy who said it was easy to just add a whole new system of checks to auto enforce the games per player rule, I'd really like to see you modify PVPGN and submit the code to Iccup to review and add.
This thread is pretty ridiculous. We have someone a few posts up comparing Iccup to the Nazi regime. I think some of you are blowing this way out of proportion because the players this hit are your friends or countrymen or someone semi-famous in the community. What the hell? who is comparing ICCUP to that? was the word "Nazi" even mentioned?
Reading the whole thread would give you a better understanding rather than control + F
On February 01 2009 21:15 besiger wrote:
...
So what ? If they see some of us posting here how we dont agree with what they are doing and its wrong, we will get banned too ? What the fuck is this, the gestapo ?
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I would also like to add to my previous post that if they had more GOOD admins, they would be less inclined to keep bad admins. When you are short handed, you tend to take whatever help you can get.
Sometimes free help sucks. PGT died partly to one admin if I remember correctly? Martian~BloOd was it? Pissed off some mexican who hacked the entire thing. Not that its his fault for the guys actions, but he instigated it. I don't remember if he was being unreasonable or not though. I just remember that PGT seemed to have some pretty good admins. Not as much corrupt abusive ones as ICCup seems to have, but when the demand is high and the supply is low, you have to make due.
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
Just build in match count restrictions based on day/week/month into the code, and we would never have this issue. Pple can play each other however many times they wish, it just wont count after a certain number of games.
ie: 10 games a day, 30 games a week, 100 games a month vs same opponent MAX for B rank, tighter restrictions for lower ranks as they will have more opponents etc.
It's silly to have this be done manually and leave it up to subjective interpretation. Make it concrete!
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On February 02 2009 07:14 Scooge wrote:
This thread is pretty ridiculous. We have someone a few posts up comparing Iccup to the Nazi regime. I think some of you are blowing this way out of proportion because the players this hit are your friends or countrymen or someone semi-famous in the community.
You're absolutely right.
The Nazi at least had more mature, less retarded people running their show.
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people should just read the iccup-rules..
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On February 02 2009 16:15 Piste wrote:
people should just read the iccup-rules..
Fail
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On February 02 2009 14:24 Scooge wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2009 12:40 PaeZ wrote:On February 02 2009 07:14 Scooge wrote:
They didn't ban ret. They banned him from posting on their forums. It's a minor, but very important distinction. ret's comments just added to the flames already on their forums and they wanted it to stop. Regardless of what ret said I can respect that.
And to the guy who said it was easy to just add a whole new system of checks to auto enforce the games per player rule, I'd really like to see you modify PVPGN and submit the code to Iccup to review and add.
This thread is pretty ridiculous. We have someone a few posts up comparing Iccup to the Nazi regime. I think some of you are blowing this way out of proportion because the players this hit are your friends or countrymen or someone semi-famous in the community. What the hell? who is comparing ICCUP to that? was the word "Nazi" even mentioned? Reading the whole thread would give you a better understanding rather than control + F Show nested quote +On February 01 2009 21:15 besiger wrote:
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So what ? If they see some of us posting here how we dont agree with what they are doing and its wrong, we will get banned too ? What the fuck is this, the gestapo ?
yeah, im sure i meant that word for word, i really think they are exactly the same as the nazi regime, really ?
And you really think things like * if we see you say bad things about us anywhere we will ban you * arent absurd ?
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Norway28665 Posts
nobody would have complained at all if they just removed the points gotten from the additional games..
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On February 02 2009 11:42 koreasilver wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2009 10:11 meathook wrote:
Frankly, I am not the least bit surprised ..
I had an ordeal with them recently when a D protoss accused me of using "allied mines" trick (which should be allowed, btw, imo. Comp. hold lurkers)
During the match - he was getting raped badly in every orifice - he starts writing different things in the chat, among them were "you use allied mines!", this made me chuckle and I replied "lols yes, ofc!" he then answered "ok, I report you" and left the game.
A poor player I might be, but this I know: nothing will come of this even if he made good on his promise, as players are physically unable to ally anyone in one on one mode, so he would only be wasting his time/energy on writing a complaint/sending the replay.
This is where the story should end, but guess what! Brilliant iccup trial AND super admins thought otherwise, however, and granted the complaint! I lost awarded pts, got warned and was told that "it was clearly allied mines," and that "I was lucky that it was a good day for him because he would have banned me otherwise, etc"
So, off to the "complain about an admin" forum I go and wait a couple of days before someone even higher up the echelon sees this thread. He decides that he will do some "testing" before he can make a decision. Meanwhile, I am being told by the admin who granted the complaint that I should stop lying and be happy that they are not going to ban me and that he is sticking by his decision.
After many days, and much testing they conclude that you, indeed, cannot ally someone in one on one mode. The match results are reversed once again, I am told that they will inform the rest of the staff and noone is punished in the end. After all, "how could they possibly know!?"
Makes me wonder -- is playing (or having played) starcraft even a requirement for becoming an iccup admin and did they set the IQ limit for admins at 70? You have got to be kidding me.
Sadly, no, but fact that it is true makes it even funnier, I think.
Here is the link to the thread I made (Click for lulz), and here is the replay, in case anyone is interested.
+ Show Spoiler [some of the PMs I received] +- Hi!
Our admin staff recieved a complaint ID2191 from this player about this game
Admin iccup.zealing reviewed this complaint and made a diccision:
Titleist_playe changes: pts: +50+100 wins: +1 loss: -1
FadetoBolivian changes: pts: -100-50 wins: -1 loss: +1
Admin's comment:
Allied mines. Reverse.
_________________________
- Uhh... is this a joke??? It is impossible to ally a person in one on one mode, therefore I cannot even do that ... go and try it yourself in a game. I won that game without any underhanded tactics...
Seems I only have the first two left. Strange. But it was more of the same from here; I was telling them "wtf!?" and they were pointing back at me saying "NO U!"
Edit: On February 02 2009 12:40 PaeZ wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2009 07:14 Scooge wrote:
They didn't ban ret. They banned him from posting on their forums. It's a minor, but very important distinction. ret's comments just added to the flames already on their forums and they wanted it to stop. Regardless of what ret said I can respect that.
And to the guy who said it was easy to just add a whole new system of checks to auto enforce the games per player rule, I'd really like to see you modify PVPGN and submit the code to Iccup to review and add.
This thread is pretty ridiculous. We have someone a few posts up comparing Iccup to the Nazi regime. I think some of you are blowing this way out of proportion because the players this hit are your friends or countrymen or someone semi-famous in the community. What the hell? who is comparing ICCUP to that? was the word "Nazi" even mentioned?
Ever heard of Godwin's Law, kid? Lols.. this thread is over.
On February 02 2009 17:45 ffswowsucks wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2009 16:15 Piste wrote:
people should just read the iccup-rules.. Fail
QFE
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Hi, Yes u use allied mines its my option, I dont close and stay decision by iccup.mai-k
My eyes are bleeding.
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EPT
