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[OSL] Ro36 Group H - Page 27

Forum Index > Brood War Tournaments
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Ideas
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
United States8167 Posts
January 09 2009 14:36 GMT
#521
On January 09 2009 01:05 Ideas wrote:
(Z)by.hero 4-1




I FUCKING CALLLED THIS MOTHERFUCKING SHIT


BY.HERO


SAVED THE WORLD FROM BISU HAVING NUMBER 1 ELO PEAK OF ALL TIME

MY HERO
Free Palestine
rekluce
Profile Joined June 2007
United States51 Posts
January 09 2009 14:55 GMT
#522
/wrist o.o the legend has fallen
boxer > jaedong folks
SilverSkyLark
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Philippines8437 Posts
January 09 2009 14:57 GMT
#523
wow, nice on by.hero.
"If i lost an arm, I would play w3." -IntoTheWow || "Member of Hyuk Hyuk Hyuk cafe. He's the next Jaedong, baby!"
Warrior Madness
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Canada3791 Posts
January 09 2009 14:57 GMT
#524
hero, you are a hero to my race. hero, you are a hero to my race. hero, you are a hero to my race. hero, you are a hero to my race.
The Past: Yellow, Julyzerg, Chojja, Savior, GGplay -- The Present: Luxury, Jae- The Future: -Dong, maGma, Zero, Effort, Hoejja, hyvaa, by.hero, calm, Action ---> SC2 (Ret?? Kolll Idra!! SEN, Cool, ZergBong, Leenock)
Abydos1
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
United States832 Posts
January 09 2009 14:59 GMT
#525
On January 09 2009 21:54 ChaoSbringer wrote:
I just remembered I had Bisu on my Fantasy OSL team.

Damn


Indeed, WTF!
"...perhaps the greatest joy possible in Starcraft, being accused of being a maphacker" - Day[9]
Shikyo
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Finland33997 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-01-09 15:05:13
January 09 2009 14:59 GMT
#526
On January 09 2009 23:36 sh02hp0869 wrote:
My think that Bisu might be overworked? Not saying Hero playing bad but Protoss have been having some problem v Z in the last mouth.

The number of games since the beginning of December. Of these, I think Leta handles the overworking the best, but might crumble just like Flash did.

Bisu

17

Flash

20

Leta

20


You're kind of right but good players play a lot... Hmm.


EDIT:

+ 09-01-09 Batoo 2008 OSL (Twilight) Return of the King (T)RuBy Win
+ 09-01-09 Batoo 2008 OSL (Twilight) Medusa (T)RuBy Win
+ 09-01-09 Batoo 2008 OSL (Twilight) Tears of the Moon (Z)RuBy Loss

Why is the lost Ruby a Z? =P
League of Legends EU West, Platinum III | Yousei Teikoku is the best thing that has ever happened to music.
Storchen
Profile Joined September 2006
Sweden4385 Posts
January 09 2009 15:01 GMT
#527
WTF?! T_T
KnightOfNi
Profile Joined December 2007
United States1508 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-01-09 15:18:05
January 09 2009 15:15 GMT
#528
BOOOOOOOOOM.
by.hero laid down the BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM.

He takes out Boxer in the GOM, now takes out Bisu in the OSL, he's a 1-man SKT killing machine. Me likey .

I'd been just biding my time waiting for a zerg to advance, but I sure as hell wasn't expecting this.
RIP eSTRO :(
littlechava
Profile Blog Joined March 2004
United States7221 Posts
January 09 2009 15:20 GMT
#529
YESSSSSSSSS I've been saying hero is the next big thing for months!!
Entusman #12
Pioneer
Profile Joined December 2008
994 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-01-09 15:28:27
January 09 2009 15:25 GMT
#530
On January 09 2009 23:20 Highways wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 09 2009 22:48 Pioneer wrote:
On January 09 2009 22:14 Letmelose wrote:
Zergs didn't crush protoss like everyone seems to think pre-Bisu era. In fact, ZvT has consistently been the most unbalanced match-up in progaming since 2005.

ZvT is actually pretty close to 50/50 if you look at the statistics for ZvT on recent maps.


Last 80 tvz's: terran 56 wins, zerg 24 wins.

This is arguably why jaedong is the best starcraft player ever.

But yea tvz is easily the most imba matchup now and historically.

A lot of those Zerg losses came from Andromeda which severly favors Terran TvZ, look at Medusa's TvZ record. It can go both ways, it's not Zerg having a non map dependent advantage it's the maps favoring them. Race's being favored on maps changes like clockwork, soon enough there will be maps that favor Z over P.

You also need to count in that Zerg's are playing terribly overall, it's not all race imbalance/map imbalance. It's Zerg's not adapting to different styles, going all-in every game with some 2 hatch build will only work 50% of the time.
d(O.o)a
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Canada5066 Posts
January 09 2009 15:27 GMT
#531
OOOWAAAHHH?!
Hi.
kingrat
Profile Joined September 2003
Bulgaria60 Posts
January 09 2009 15:30 GMT
#532
wow I am so happy now. Great job Hero!
SkyTheUnknown
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Germany2065 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-01-09 15:45:15
January 09 2009 15:31 GMT
#533
On January 09 2009 22:36 ondik wrote:
Thanks by.hero for destroying OSL. Dumbfuck.


Stop posting in this thread unless you give the players more respect.

Furthermore you could easily say the same thing about Bisu regarding the MSL.
The oldest and strongest emotion of mankind is fear, and the oldest and strongest kind of fear is fear of the unknown - H.P. Lovecraft
LightRailCoyote
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United States982 Posts
January 09 2009 15:32 GMT
#534
WHERE YOU AT?
WHERE YOU AT?
WHERE YOU AT?
GET YO ASS WHOOPED
AKA SurfSolar ----- This is the product of a DIY inadequate home
Zzoram
Profile Joined February 2008
Canada7115 Posts
January 09 2009 15:56 GMT
#535
Where are the VODs? I need to see this.
sh02hp0869
Profile Joined January 2008
Sweden460 Posts
January 09 2009 16:11 GMT
#536
On January 10 2009 00:25 Pioneer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 09 2009 23:20 Highways wrote:
On January 09 2009 22:48 Pioneer wrote:
On January 09 2009 22:14 Letmelose wrote:
Zergs didn't crush protoss like everyone seems to think pre-Bisu era. In fact, ZvT has consistently been the most unbalanced match-up in progaming since 2005.

ZvT is actually pretty close to 50/50 if you look at the statistics for ZvT on recent maps.


Last 80 tvz's: terran 56 wins, zerg 24 wins.

This is arguably why jaedong is the best starcraft player ever.

But yea tvz is easily the most imba matchup now and historically.

A lot of those Zerg losses came from Andromeda which severly favors Terran TvZ, look at Medusa's TvZ record. It can go both ways, it's not Zerg having a non map dependent advantage it's the maps favoring them. Race's being favored on maps changes like clockwork, soon enough there will be maps that favor Z over P.

You also need to count in that Zerg's are playing terribly overall, it's not all race imbalance/map imbalance. It's Zerg's not adapting to different styles, going all-in every game with some 2 hatch build will only work 50% of the time.


Zergs has actually not played that bad v P im pretty sure about that. And if you actually watch games by the lesser know Z like Shine, Zero, Saint, type-b, great are actually really good players.
T have only slighty better topp 30 I would say. And even if it is true that Z are playing terrible 56 - 24 is way to high to make that of a diffrent. More so if you look at the top T almost everone have there best MU against Z. Z are not playing bad against Protoss thats for sure. It might only by temporary we just have to wait and see.

Hello mother hello father
Klive5ive
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United Kingdom6056 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-01-09 17:16:55
January 09 2009 16:22 GMT
#537
Sweeet, this is awesome news xD

And they say that by.hero can save us......

Don't hate the player - Hate the game
bubblegumbo
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Taiwan1296 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-01-09 16:26:32
January 09 2009 16:26 GMT
#538
BIsu overworked? lol? Everyone has proleague to worry about. When you are in 2 or more semi-finals at the same time versus multiple matchups, then that argument is valid. Bisu lost, so has Stork, Jangbi, Free and Kal in the recent weeks. Get over it.
"I honestly think that whoever invented toilet paper is a genius. For man to survive, they need toilet paper!"- Nal_rA
Plexa
Profile Blog Joined October 2005
Aotearoa39261 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-01-09 16:27:39
January 09 2009 16:26 GMT
#539
On January 09 2009 21:23 Hot_Bid wrote:

  • Protoss do one base builds, they are successful on maps with really short rush distances like Requiem. They also succeed on island maps for obvious reasons. But on maps with long distances, easily defendable naturals, or cliffs, Protoss gets owned by lurkers and late game ZvP.

    yup

  • FEs begin to be used (started by Nal_rA) but are never really effective, as they give the Z way too much map control and the timing attack (most often +1 speedzeal) is easily dealt with by Zerg lair tech.

    half true; maps like guillotine and forte allowed FE play and was preferred on those maps- it was a situational build not an everything build

  • It gets even worse with Savior at the top. Even though no other Zergs are showcasing the type of dominance Savior does, it still feels impossible. Savior takes the map, turtles with lurkers and scourge, and then plows you over late game with ultras. Best case scenario? Allin or elimination race like Nal_rA did on peaks. The true dark ages of PvZ.

    Half true; Dark ages for Protoss came before savior with the era of July/Gorush. With the savior era you begin to see a number of new protoss player flourish. Only other decent zvp'er at this time was silver (lol?)

  • Bisu shows up and introduces FE and corsair play. Corsairs absolutely rape Zerg. Read this thread for why: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=60959. Protoss start FEing every single time, and one base play 100% dies.

    Bisu did not introduce FE play. FE play was commonplace well before Bisu played savior (e.g Anytime vs GGplay/Gorush from Shinhan 2 OSL). A number of variations for the FE existed; 5gate +1 speedlot attack (Most Protoss e.g. Bisu in 06), Corsair/Zealot (Anytime), Reaver/Sair (on maps with easy third gases) and the Corsair/DT build (later popularized by Bisu). Protoss winrate vs Zerg starts to climb towards the end of 2006 with Protoss like Daezang showing real flair in PvZ (pioneered "bisu build" on Blitz). Bisu rapes savior, Protoss realize how good corsairs are and all variations of FE open with Stargate from here on (bar the occasional deviation).

  • Protoss players experiment with FE openings, all involving one or more corsairs, with reaver variants, dark templar variants, timing attacks with goons, etc.

    Partially true; they had already experimented a great deal with these openings (particular dragoon timing attacks). The most notable build to evolve during this time is the Sair/Reaver opening into standard ground play (previously sair/reaver usually meant it dominated early/mid game play, now it was just early). Protoss still very much followed the traditional bisu through this time.

  • Jaedong comes up with a build on blue storm that exploits the corsair timing, by going 3 hatch spire and doesn't built mutas, but only scourge to stop corsairs while adding more hatches and drones and expos. THEN he switches to mass ground in time for the first Protoss attack, mixing in better, more efficient dark swarm and plague usage than ever before.

    Partly true, 815 the master of Blue Storm found the timings to exploit Protoss on this map. Jaedong used this one on Blue Storm only. Jaedong dropped this style after this game and focused on the popular 4hatch-hydra-lair variation and won the MSL with this style. Zerg still generally struggle to deal with Protoss macro.

  • Protoss get better at playing versus this, massing critical corsair numbers and using the reaver-FE variant which has become far more popular than the sair-dt opening. the "passive" protoss style of small-scale reaver-sair harass while taking bases and building a huge one-punch army is prevalent among all tosses now. Free, Bisu, and others incorporate more late game reavers into their armies to deal with ultraling better. Zergs respond with more dswarm and plague.

    July rapes Best on Andromeda using the spire before hydraden build using scourge to snipe corsairs. This style of play becomes widely adopted on Andromeda and is quickly developed on other maps as well (becomes dominate Zerg style). Reavers has also grown in popularity from Nal_ra vs Savior on Peaks and were largely accepted as the late game weapon of choice of DA (see a number of Tau Cross games). Swarm plague came more in the Jaedong style between January-May 2008

  • Zerg haven't fully responded, but it seems the next step is burrow hydra / burrow ling (infolings!) and possibly parasite to deal with the harass, into mass hydra (with less lurkers) to allow for more mobility, aggressiveness, and exploitation the delayed storm. Not really sure how this will go yet.


Again, not quite true. Recent trends amongst protoss have favored the 4gate 2archon variation which gives a very strong pressure attack, but also includes 1 corsair for scouting purposes. Zerg have almost solved this as indicated by the rising winrate (notably on Destination) using a 3hatch -> lair -> spire -> hydraden build (similar to the one Jaedong/815 was using a long time ago). Zerg also begin to take expansions more freely to rival the protoss economy (previously Corsair/DT play prevented taking the 4th base due to geographical distance and overlord speed). Zerg also lessen emphasis on Hive tech units (defiler-lurker-ling combination of Jaedong) and begin to focus more on Lair tech and the "Neo-Sauron Zerg" style. Thus far the Neo Sauron has just about leveled the ZvP winrate.

Administrator~ Spirit will set you free ~
Frits
Profile Joined March 2003
11782 Posts
January 09 2009 16:30 GMT
#540
On January 09 2009 09:15 Frits wrote:
Can't wait to return from exams tomorrow to find out that hero owned the shit out of ruby and bisu. Oh man that would make my day. Go hero.


lol I KNEW IT

god that DID make my day

cant wait for the vods
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