On June 25 2008 14:58 Kuja900 wrote: mingu tried to copy luxury's build that he succeeded against flash with but apparently he didnt study it hard enough and got useless tech like den/mound he never used and was to slow with the already misplaced guardians
it wasnt luxurys build, hes had something like this ready since the 3rd or 4th week of proleague, he just hadnt gotten a terran yet.
he got kind of unlucky getting scouted first, threw off the timing a bit.
oh wow thnks for the insight its so cool that u know this lol got me all giddy
On June 25 2008 14:49 aev wrote: crazy macro from flash wins
I bet that build worked versus the eSTRO terrans who MinGu practiced against as they probably have a macro nothing near Flash's.
Flash has way weaker mechanics than you think, he's around 260 apm so someone like really definitely has macro almost as good or better than flash. Most of his games are won with really good timing
Speed means jack shit in starcraft. Nal ra had like 150 apm at his height. Its all about effective apm, what is spam, and what is not. Doesn't matter how fast you are if you dont understand the game and you cant multitask, no matter how much you spaz around the screen. Flash knows when his scv's need to be built, where they need to be, when depots go down, when units must be made. He UNDERSTANDS macro, it has nothing to do with hand speed. At. All.
Anyways: I didn't watch the game, but I read the commentary. Flash raped a b team zerg. But did he REALLY rape him, like Flash style? Did he pull out a real win, or just a "win because you suck really bad"? Basically, did Flash look like himself?
How come every time something is said about apm not mattering examples of protoss players pop up? Okay toss aside, nal ras cheese aside, his prime was ages ago when everyone was alot slower and nal ra is actually around 250 apm not 150..i checked alot of his replays and I also checked flash's replays and saw his fpvods his mechanics aren't that great but his timing is
Nal ra's apm was not 250 in the period I am talking about. Doesn't matter either way, because your post is wrong. Did you even watch games from Nal ra's period? They may of been less quick, but not to a great extent where 150 is acceptable and now it is not. 150 was a joke. Nal ra made it work because he knew the game. He had good macro- maybe not the best, but it was always solid. Flash's macro is one of the best in the game, it has nothing to do with speed. It's not as if Flash ever missed a beat for his scv because his hands could not keep up with the pace of the game. Flash has great timing attacks, he has great build orders, but he also knows how to macro like crazy. Hence why he is compared to oov.
As to the fpvods, I call bullshit. There are no flash FPVODS except for a few he had on a game show, against amateurs...which says absolutely nothing about his real ability. We have no replays of Flash, we have no FPVODS, none that are in real games anyways. We have generally, no idea what his apm is or whether he spams, or any crap like that.
On June 25 2008 14:49 aev wrote: crazy macro from flash wins
I bet that build worked versus the eSTRO terrans who MinGu practiced against as they probably have a macro nothing near Flash's.
Flash has way weaker mechanics than you think, he's around 260 apm so someone like really definitely has macro almost as good or better than flash. Most of his games are won with really good timing
Speed means jack shit in starcraft. Nal ra had like 150 apm at his height. Its all about effective apm, what is spam, and what is not. Doesn't matter how fast you are if you dont understand the game and you cant multitask, no matter how much you spaz around the screen. Flash knows when his scv's need to be built, where they need to be, when depots go down, when units must be made. He UNDERSTANDS macro, it has nothing to do with hand speed. At. All.
Anyways: I didn't watch the game, but I read the commentary. Flash raped a b team zerg. But did he REALLY rape him, like Flash style? Did he pull out a real win, or just a "win because you suck really bad"? Basically, did Flash look like himself?
yeah it was a flash win, he had no turrets and the mutas did nothing, he had 15 sunks and flash was like pfft, thats all you got and mingu left
On June 25 2008 14:49 aev wrote: crazy macro from flash wins
I bet that build worked versus the eSTRO terrans who MinGu practiced against as they probably have a macro nothing near Flash's.
Flash has way weaker mechanics than you think, he's around 260 apm so someone like really definitely has macro almost as good or better than flash. Most of his games are won with really good timing
Speed means jack shit in starcraft. Nal ra had like 150 apm at his height. Its all about effective apm, what is spam, and what is not. Doesn't matter how fast you are if you dont understand the game and you cant multitask, no matter how much you spaz around the screen. Flash knows when his scv's need to be built, where they need to be, when depots go down, when units must be made. He UNDERSTANDS macro, it has nothing to do with hand speed. At. All.
Anyways: I didn't watch the game, but I read the commentary. Flash raped a b team zerg. But did he REALLY rape him, like Flash style? Did he pull out a real win, or just a "win because you suck really bad"? Basically, did Flash look like himself?
How come every time something is said about apm not mattering examples of protoss players pop up? Okay toss aside, nal ras cheese aside, his prime was ages ago when everyone was alot slower and nal ra is actually around 250 apm not 150..i checked alot of his replays and I also checked flash's replays and saw his fpvods his mechanics aren't that great but his timing is
Nal ra's apm was not 250 in the period I am talking about. Doesn't matter either way, because your post is wrong. Did you even watch games from Nal ra's period? They may of been less quick, but not to a great extent where 150 is acceptable and now it is not. 150 was a joke. Nal ra made it work because he knew the game. He had good macro- maybe not the best, but it was always solid. Flash's macro is one of the best in the game, it has nothing to do with speed. It's not as if Flash ever missed a beat for his scv because his hands could not keep up with the pace of the game. Flash has great timing attacks, he has great build orders, but he also knows how to macro like crazy. Hence why he is compared to oov.
As to the fpvods, I call bullshit. There are no flash FPVODS except for a few he had on a game show, against amateurs...which says absolutely nothing about his real ability. We have no replays of Flash, we have no FPVODS, none that are in real games anyways. We have generally, no idea what his apm is or whether he spams, or any crap like that.
Nal ra is protoss that's why he made 150 apm work, also I highly doubt he really was 150 show me a replay of this and it better not be from 8 years ago. Every time they switch into flashes fpview he doesn't seem like anything special as far as mechanics go, even in his replays he just looks like a regular terran but he always attacks exactly when he needs to.
i think that flash and nal_ra just scout very well which is why they have great timing and game sense in flash's games u always see him scanning or sending scvs around
EPT
