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On April 09 2024 20:44 foxmeep wrote:
I actually don't understand taking the bait though. If he's got a Nexus coming up then he just needs to sit and defend. If SK is droning hard behind, at that point he's not going to get those zealots across the map to do any damage anyway until he has a few more
The game was already over the moment Mini's dual gate opener got scouted. Soulkey was in complete control for the rest of the game.
Mini for some reason decided to build a second gateway despite being aware of SK's early pool. Every protoss player worth their salt will tell you that decision was an auto-loss.
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On April 09 2024 20:26 foxmeep wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2024 20:18 PVJ wrote:On April 09 2024 20:10 foxmeep wrote:On April 09 2024 19:55 PVJ wrote:
Is Soulkey looking _this_ hopeless because of Mini or because of the 2 maps? Because in the Ro16 Soulkey obliterated Bisu. He got BO advantage and knows how to close. Game 3 shows what happens if the BO advantage goes the other way. I didn't think game 2 was a clear build-order advantage. It seemed to me it was real-time in-game tactics and brains that tricked the zerg. You are right he knows how to close. That's what makes it so exciting to watch Mini~~! What's that quote about thin line between genius and insanity? Haha. That was almost such a sick strat by Mini but then it wasn't.
:D Haha, yes. Mini is out of the loop every time he plays and it's just a 50-50 coin flip where he ends up.
And also if I go by iron maiden it's a thin line between love and hate which is also quite working in today's context of the reverse-sweep
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The only Mini game that was more aggravating was the finals vs. Larva. I still can't believe the probes fighting this 5th match.
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Perspectives, guys. We have observer view, we know everything. Mini didn't know that Soulkey built his 2nd hatch in main and like 50 lings. If he knew, he would have just held the nat. But it's not a good look at this level to build a bunch of units and just sit there doing nothing.
For the second gate despite seeing the overlord, he probably gambled for a 12 hatch build from Soulkey. Basically he hoped to outplay Soulkey with early game micro agression because he knows he can't win a standard macro game against Soulkey without BO advantage.
The real criticism is that he should have transferred those probes to the nat instead of fighting with them. That was a moment of madness.
On April 09 2024 20:48 Magic Powers wrote:
Mini for some reason decided to build a second gateway despite being aware of SK's early pool. Every protoss player worth their salt will tell you that decision was an auto-loss.
it was built before the scouting probe reached Soulkey's main
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the decision to fight with probes wasn't the worst, the problem is that he didn't send zealots to the right place, and so they ended up being idle on the left side of nexus for a very decisive couple of seconds. If he sends them correctly, lings start to auto-target zlots instead of probes and as such, not as many probes would have died.
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On April 09 2024 21:00 TMNT wrote:Perspectives, guys. We have observer view, we know everything. Mini didn't know that Soulkey built his 2nd hatch in main and like 50 lings. If he knew, he would have just held the nat. But it's not a good look at this level to build a bunch of units and just sit there doing nothing. For the second gate despite seeing the overlord, he probably gambled for a 12 hatch build from Soulkey. Basically he hoped to outplay Soulkey with early game micro agression because he knows he can't win a standard macro game against Soulkey without BO advantage. The real criticism is that he should have transferred those probes to the nat instead of fighting with them. That was a moment of madness. Show nested quote +On April 09 2024 20:48 Magic Powers wrote:
Mini for some reason decided to build a second gateway despite being aware of SK's early pool. Every protoss player worth their salt will tell you that decision was an auto-loss. it was built before the scouting probe reached Soulkey's main
Ok, but the correct choice is certainly not to double down and just continue as if nothing had changed with that information. Mini should've known that the game would be over if he doesn't avert course. If he had instead gone for an expansion, at least he would've had some hope. No protoss player would ever willingly enter a dual gate vs pool first scenario if it can be avoided. It's an auto-loss scenario no matter how you slice it.
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Yeah that too. He probably A clicked the zealots to the main and left it at that for a few seconds. Tbf Protoss is always fighting a losing battle once speedlings slip into their main.
Also things started to fall apart for him when he lost his scouting probe to 2 drones at Soulkey's nat. Game would have completely gone into another direction had that probe gone into the main and confirmed the 2nd hatch.
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Mini took risks and they obviously didn't work out.
However, his approach to the matchup (and the opponent today) was great.
He fought tooth and nail to either get an early advantage or prepare a killing move before going into mid-game in an equal position with Zerg. (initially equal, because we all know Zerg has 15 random options to then swing the game favorably quite easily).
Also consider the maps he pulled this off on, it was clearly premeditated.
As thing stand, I would still blindly take Mini against any Zerg rather than Snow. His approach is the correct one.
Props to Soulkey for adjusting, something that he is definitely the most capable at, he is the BrainZerg (and the only one at that).
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On April 09 2024 21:28 Magic Powers wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2024 21:00 TMNT wrote:Perspectives, guys. We have observer view, we know everything. Mini didn't know that Soulkey built his 2nd hatch in main and like 50 lings. If he knew, he would have just held the nat. But it's not a good look at this level to build a bunch of units and just sit there doing nothing. For the second gate despite seeing the overlord, he probably gambled for a 12 hatch build from Soulkey. Basically he hoped to outplay Soulkey with early game micro agression because he knows he can't win a standard macro game against Soulkey without BO advantage. The real criticism is that he should have transferred those probes to the nat instead of fighting with them. That was a moment of madness. On April 09 2024 20:48 Magic Powers wrote:
Mini for some reason decided to build a second gateway despite being aware of SK's early pool. Every protoss player worth their salt will tell you that decision was an auto-loss. it was built before the scouting probe reached Soulkey's main Ok, but the correct choice is certainly not to double down and just continue as if nothing had changed with that information. Mini should've known that the game would be over if he doesn't avert course. If he had instead gone for an expansion, at least he would've had some hope. No protoss player would ever willingly enter a dual gate vs pool first scenario if it can be avoided. It's an auto-loss scenario no matter how you slice it.
You mean cancel the gate and go for a normal game? Yeah probably should have done that. But I think he was weighing between playing a normal game (with 37 minerals lost) and couting on his micro (2 gate vs overpool is not impossible) and went for the latter.
It's not auto loss though as you can see later in the game. The 6 zealots that were zoning one group of lings to the center of the map, ending up in no man's land after all. Certainly could have used them better. For example, if he just made a blind guess and held position all those zealots to make a full wall at the nat, and macro'd behind that. The game would have been playable. (but of course he didn't have observer view and couldnt make that decision like us)
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Snow's probably lose 1-4 or 2-4 in the semifinals. He plays standard. Standard play gets you no chance in PvZ when skills are equal.
In fact they played two BO9s recently and Snow went down 2-4 in both series.
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I left home when game 2 just finished and Soulkey looked shellshocked. 40 mins later I opened my phone to take a glance at the stream and there Soulkey was taking the winner's interview. What happened?
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+ Show Spoiler +FFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCKKKKKKKKK ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !
-.-
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Worst possible timeline..
ZvZ ASL finals incoming...
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SK was prepared for some of Mini's early aggression.He did 9 pool openings.
I think SnOw will try to play late games.
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This is looking bad for zergs. Zerg has been doing badly online but very well offline. This is going to affect map pool once again, buffing maps for protoss while zergs (including ladder zergs) continue to suffer online.
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On April 09 2024 23:32 Shinokuki wrote:
This is looking bad for zergs. Zerg has been doing badly online but very well offline. This is going to affect map pool once again, buffing maps for protoss while zergs (including ladder zergs) continue to suffer online.
So you're saying Terran will benefit the most?
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Mini why you break my heart like dis : ((
Dude Soulkey is not afraid to make lings holy...
I feel for Mini. I think he could have won this season if he advanced here. And he was so close. Shit
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On April 09 2024 21:53 TMNT wrote:
Snow's probably lose 1-4 or 2-4 in the semifinals. He plays standard. Standard play gets you no chance in PvZ when skills are equal.
In fact they played two BO9s recently and Snow went down 2-4 in both series.
Nah SnOw will win 4-2. SnOw in his current form is Flash tier. Mark me words!
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On April 09 2024 21:18 Bonyth wrote:
the decision to fight with probes wasn't the worst, the problem is that he didn't send zealots to the right place, and so they ended up being idle on the left side of nexus for a very decisive couple of seconds. If he sends them correctly, lings start to auto-target zlots instead of probes and as such, not as many probes would have died.
Yes sending the zealots to the left of the nexus was a brutal moment.
Oh well. I still think Mini played quite well. Knife's edge series. And an enjoyable one!
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I can understand Mini not knowing that SK made his hatchery inside the main and he didnt know exactly how big of a lead he was in. But he decided to play in the dark and not sending any worker out to force more multitasking from zerg and maybe finding a way to put agression with zealots. Second he Saw the early zerling speed but decided to not fully wall his expansion. That is the one that truly makes me think he just turn off his brain for the last 2 games. On blitz Y he decided to build his core and the forge in the main and left the natural fully open. That allowed lings to get in as they pleased..He either tried to play very brave and forcing a good exchange in those situations or bugged so hard that forgot the basics of pvz.
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EPT
