Yeah, I bet the infamous "OSL slump" is just because many of the OSL winners weren't true championship material in the first place. They just go on a short hot-streak and a few lucky breaks and then it wears off after that. Savior is definitely up there with his MSL wins, and I hope he comes back in the future.

HonestTea

5007 Posts

November 08 2007 20:47 GMT

#602

If I were to rate levels of dominance:

1. oov
2. Savior
3. Nada
4. Boxer
5. Bisu

... although I'm hesitant to apply the "dominant" label to Boxer.

BluzMan

Russian Federation4235 Posts

November 08 2007 21:05 GMT

#603

Boxer was never dominant, he was art. =)

Or, rephrased, Savior and the like dominated other players, Boxer dominated the game.

FieryBalrog

United States1381 Posts

November 08 2007 21:15 GMT

#604

Boxer changed the whole Starcraft paradigm- the mentality with which players approached the game- and he blew away boundaries and opened up huge areas of the game for further exploration and innovation.

He was never as dominating a player as Nada or Savior even at his prime, but he was always a more important player.

The closest player to Boxer (albeit weaker) in my opinion is Nal_Ra, not Nada or Oov.

Liquid`Jinro

Sweden33723 Posts

November 08 2007 21:22 GMT

#605

On November 09 2007 05:47 HonestTea wrote:
If I were to rate levels of dominance:

1. oov
2. Savior
3. Nada
4. Boxer
5. Bisu

... although I'm hesitant to apply the "dominant" label to Boxer.

..
Boxer won two OSLs back to back and a KPGA Tour (MSL) AND was in the finals of a 3rd OSL after his 2 wins.

How is that not dominant?

BluzMan

Russian Federation4235 Posts

November 08 2007 21:22 GMT

#606

Bisu, in fact, should be dubbed Neo-Nal_Ra for the sake of innovation he has brought into the game. He made tosses competely rethink the approach to PvZ, and, after his performance vs Hwasin, I'm very anxious to see his PvT because it's somewhat different too. The way he relies on harass and manages threat is awesome. The way he used pure strategy to take down Hwasin when he was behind on both producion and unit count was marvelous.

IdrA

United States11541 Posts

November 08 2007 21:29 GMT

#607

i wouldnt really call bisu innovative. hes insanely good, but that comes from his impeccable mechanics/timing/decision making. its not like hes the first toss to use fe into dt/sair, even in the pro scene, its just no one else can make it work nearly as well as he can.

FieryBalrog

United States1381 Posts

November 08 2007 21:33 GMT

#608

I think Bisu will have a "Savior-effect" on Protoss players. Savior didn't innovate all that heavily, but his execution, coordination and game-sense was so good that he made 3 hatch and late game hive tech into a god-like build- and popularized it. He changed Zerg play not through innovation so much as through dominance- I don't think we'd have players like GGplay and Yarnc without Savior, even through 3 hatch heavy tech builds have been around since forever. Bisu appears to be doing the same, as Idra said, no one else can make it work nearly as well as he can- for now. He'll popularize it, and soon FE->sair builds will proliferate just as 3 hatch and heavy reliance on hive tech is everywhere now.

Lukeeze[zR]

Switzerland6838 Posts

November 08 2007 21:41 GMT

#609

On November 09 2007 01:10 himurakenshin wrote:
Winning the MSL twice doesn't mean anything, Bisu is still getting thrown around by amature players like Flash. If he had won two OSLs back-to-back he would be like Boxer in 2001; untouchable.

what about flying rabbits ?

Blue

Norway359 Posts

November 08 2007 21:54 GMT

#610

So are we to call Mind the new terran comet now?

When will Bisu start to slump?

Its amazing how many new nicks and faces we have to get familiar with as fans of this game

CapO

United States1615 Posts

November 08 2007 22:13 GMT

#611

i really wanna see xellos win, just because he is old school. i don't wanna keep seeing new schoolers getting into finals. it is just not right, imo =P

Jyvblamo

Canada13788 Posts

November 08 2007 22:28 GMT

#612

Semioldguy, how's that sock tasting?

Somewhat related:
WHAT THE SHIT. SAVIOR VS BISU REMATCH WOULD HAVE BEEN AWESOME. DAMMIT MIND, I KNEW YOU WERE GOOD BUT WHY DID YOU HAVE TO GO AHEAD AND WIN?!

+ Show Spoiler +

Can we please nickname Mind as Mandark Terran?

WiljushkA

Serbia1416 Posts

November 08 2007 22:28 GMT

#613

god i hope bisu is gonna destroy mind

Kuja900

United States3564 Posts

November 08 2007 22:40 GMT

#614

dont forget july yo

Aphelion

United States2720 Posts

November 08 2007 22:55 GMT

#615

On November 09 2007 05:42 teamsolid wrote:
Yeah, I bet the infamous "OSL slump" is just because many of the OSL winners weren't true championship material in the first place. They just go on a short hot-streak and a few lucky breaks and then it wears off after that. Savior is definitely up there with his MSL wins, and I hope he comes back in the future.

Not to say that some people don't get lucky, but it has happened to Oov, Nada, July, and other dominating Bonjwas enough that that isn't the only explanation.

Jyvblamo

Canada13788 Posts

November 08 2007 23:01 GMT

#616

Fact: Larger sample sizes (including size of player pool, number of games played, etc) will increase accuracy of results.
Ergo, MSL is better at determining the best player from a selection of players (even if technical problems plagued them like the... plague, last year) compared to the OSL.

FieryBalrog

United States1381 Posts

November 08 2007 23:26 GMT

#617

On November 09 2007 07:55 Aphelion wrote:

Show nested quote +

Not to say that some people don't get lucky, but it has happened to Oov, Nada, July, and other dominating Bonjwas enough that that isn't the only explanation.

Um, thats the point. Even dominant players of the era can get kicked out of the OSL because of the great luck in the format.

I mean, just take a look at Nada for an example. Wins one OSL, then doesn't even appear in the semis for the next 5! Then drops off the face off the earth again for 4 more OSLs, only to win it again!

knyttym

United States5797 Posts

November 08 2007 23:32 GMT

#618

wow umm... I had a dream about thes games that Mind won 3-1. Then I woke and felt relieved that it, until I checked tl... Wow sAviOr. Can sum1 tell me did sAviOr lose because of bad play, or did Mind just outplay him?

DJEtterStyle

United States2766 Posts

November 08 2007 23:46 GMT

#619

On November 09 2007 08:32 kNyTTyM wrote:
wow umm... I had a dream about thes games that Mind won 3-1. Then I woke and felt relieved that it, until I checked tl... Wow sAviOr. Can sum1 tell me did sAviOr lose because of bad play, or did Mind just outplay him?

Savior didn't play poorly. Mind just showed a lot of intelligent play. His micro and macro weren't anything spectacular, but he's definitely one of those players who is thinking the entire game. He scouted very well, used his comsats effectively to check on Savior's tech, employed the off-beat expansion timing that is usually attributed to oov, and kept his army in generally good positions, especially on Blue Storm, where he used the high ground to GREAT effect more than once. While he wasn't as flashy as Casy or scary as oov, he got the job done by using, of all things, his mind.

It's also interesting to note that every one of Mind's wins was off of a one-rax CC build, and his two losses were the games in which he deviated from this formula.