Map Order: Round of 16 - Monty Hall/Python/Fantasy Round of 8 - Python/Fantasy/Monty Hall Round of 4 - Fantasy/Monty Hall/Python Final - Monty Hall/Python/Fantasy
wait.... this is going to be for the next next starleague right? ( the one after the one thats about to start off, you know the one where reach got assraped out ) sorry if i am not makign sense or stupid.
iloveoov, Lim Jin Mook, Pomme, Bassen[fOu], Yu Yu Jin, Sparkyz flOwer, Shin Yim Geum, Nal_keke, VicaL[3.33], Park Hae Sung, Sparkyz Shine, Son Ju Heung, NsP_Destiny
Group H
YellOw[ArnC], Juni[s.g], Inyeon[3.33], BestGod, Choi Ji Sung, Kingdom, Qoo)kuni, ShinHwA[Name], Kwanro[saM], Park Ju Hyun, ChoJJa, Sparkyz Leta, By.Great
Group I
Nal_Ra, ho[white], Kim Dong Ho, CuteBoy[gm], Jung Hyun Sik, 910[Ete], Cho Il Jang, Kim Seung Hyun, Mumyung, Sparkyz Spear, Kim Su Ho
midas[gm], Lim Dong Choon, Lee Sung Gu, YellOw, Miracle, Kim Yeong Min, Thezerg[Alive], Shin Jung Hoon, 52Layla[GnH], Memory, tosslife[fOu], Ahn Jun Yeong
Group L
Anytime..[gm], PokJu[S.G], Hwang Byung Yeong, FreeDom.werra, Ham Dong Won, InteR.Mind, Jun Heung Sik, Hery[Hyo], ChRh, Park Yong (wtf), ZeuS, KT.MGW)Hyuk, Yeom Chang Seob
Group M
XellOs, Gong Min Chang, Kim Jong Hwa, Sense, Junwi_[saM], Choi Yoon Sung, dOnGraE[S.G], Cho Hyun Yeong, Park Jun Han, Qoo)CLon, Lee Seung Suk, Violet[WHITE]
On August 15 2007 07:07 SonuvBob wrote: Oh, I was looking at yubee's post.
We really need some Korean OCR software.
whats OCR?
Optical Character Recognition. Technology used to identify characters in a digitised document. So you could get text from the pictures so it'd be easier to search
On August 17 2007 21:26 ~chut~ wrote: Only the 1st one of each group qualifies right? That sounds bad for Yellow then
Wasn't it two, or am i smoking asspipe.
On August 17 2007 23:00 Kacas wrote: only one? wtf this will be impossible foryellow =(
Nal_Ra, Anytime. CHojja, Gorush...everybody is there omg t_t
he meant 1 per group, they wouldn't put na_ra, anytime, chojja, gorush in the same group or else i'll bloody murder someone. Not that yellow has much chance either way. LOL sorry yellow fans, hes here to make progammers look good only. He does a fine job at that.
On August 18 2007 00:21 Plexa wrote: Man, PuSan and JJu in the same group >.< Also, how many pros won't make it out this time around
jju is slumping way worse than pusan. And hes useless in PL too. Unless he turns around and starts winning again we may see him joining the army or commentating soon.
On August 17 2007 23:00 Kacas wrote: only one? wtf this will be impossible foryellow =(
Nal_Ra, Anytime. CHojja, Gorush...everybody is there omg t_t
he meant 1 per group, they wouldn't put na_ra, anytime, chojja, gorush in the same group or else i'll bloody murder someone. Not that yellow has much chance either way. LOL sorry yellow fans, hes here to make progammers look good only. He does a fine job at that.
kang min gu isn't the mingu that used to be in KTF, CJ and is now in Estro ~_~ the super moving mingu is called kim mingu and he's zerg. so i guess you should just type Kang Min Gu and leave it at that since hes some unknown without an aka right now haha.
On August 18 2007 00:21 Plexa wrote: Man, PuSan and JJu in the same group >.< Also, how many pros won't make it out this time around
jju is slumping way worse than pusan. And hes useless in PL too. Unless he turns around and starts winning again we may see him joining the army or commentating soon.
JJu fucking rules !!!
Anyway, im totally psyched for this tomorrow! except i can watch >.< so i be logging onto tl all day methinks
On August 18 2007 00:21 Plexa wrote: Man, PuSan and JJu in the same group >.< Also, how many pros won't make it out this time around
jju is slumping way worse than pusan. And hes useless in PL too. Unless he turns around and starts winning again we may see him joining the army or commentating soon.
<fanboyism> JJu fucking rules !!! </fanboyism>
Anyway, im totally psyched for this tomorrow! except i can watch >.< so i be logging onto tl all day methinks
the good news is that one of the few games he won in recent memory was vs pusan =)
Right now showing Hiya vs Casy on Monty Hall, Hiya on top and Casy on the bottom.
Casy expoed and has 2 fact, Hiya opted to not expo and is killing Casy's tank w/ a wraith. Hiya with 4 tanks to Casy's expo now, Casy with 2 gollies 1 tank.
Casy's CC under tank fire, it's fully unfunctional now. Casy tried to break free with tanks, gols, and scvs, but Casy repelled it. CC floated, and Hiya's tanks firing on Casy's facts.
Tempest's 2nd gate is now finishing, now with shuttle and presumably dts. He better do some fucking magic with them or he will be behind. Much expands to the 6:30, and does some damage to tempest's shuttle, much now with 1 obs out, 1 dt headed to much's nat. Kills a few probes but no real damage. Much now has citadel and 4 gates
Much storm drops tempest's center nat, killing around 8 probes. Tempest has a considerable army out side of much's center nat and gets a few zealot kills with some storm. And with the HT he gets some probe kills @ much's 6oclock base.
As the armies clash with zeal goon temp and a few archons much manages to push back tempest, however there isnt really one big advantage at this point as tempest is now pusing much back. Then both are content to sit back and macro.
Using a templar on the island tempest gets a few more probe frags on muchs 8oclock expansion.
Both players seem to have an even ammount of gates, and are both content to sit back and macro, penetrated by the occasional storm harassment.
Both players have started to engage eachother, much now w/ an arbiter, even with some great storms tempest has pulled out ahead winning this battle, much adds 2 cannons to his center nat but temptest decides its not worth his time.
tempest is dancing around the middle with his army, much looks like hes going for a recall, however he may need to bull his arbiter back to defend. Much now with cannnons/gooons/temp/zealot/archon vs tempests army with pretty much the same thing.
Much recalls to tempest's island right as tempest attacks much's center nat. However much manages to save a few probes as all of the probes @ tempest's island are doomed.
Tempest now is takinh out much's gates, however much can now deal damage to teh 2 expansions of tempest that the island overlooks, however much at this point is pretty much dead.
Whoever this Tempest is, hes got some really good macro.
Its at this point when I wish someone would give much a nudge and tell him that it is not the proleague, and that he can gg before he has nothing left. In other news much is now cannoning all of his bases, and tempest has regained control of his island.
WIth about 20 cannons/expo and the map being monty much will take his time to tap out, but at this point tempest has about a 99% win chance. so ima stop the reports for this game.
On August 20 2007 15:05 Kaolla wrote: btw is this the same tempest that was in that china tourney with testie back then?? or is my mind corrupting? if it is he sure came a long way
tempest was invited to pgl but he couldnt go because it interfered with one of the offline qualifiers.
Tempest actually manages to put the hurting on all of the cannons @ much's island. however much is being a flaming vagina and wont gg until he gets eliminated.
jy with speedlings and 9ish mutas out, good harass killed like 10 rines and didnt lose a muta. jy's expo at top right main is done, still being obnoxious with mutas tanks out and vessel tech done for pepe pumping mm off 3 rax shitty turret placement lets jy take a few scvs hive going up for jy
irradiate on muta clump jy didnt notice for a few seconds and didnt do a good job splitting it 5-6 lurks + speedlings done pepe needs to move out now or hes gonna be in trouble hive should be done soon.
pepe moves out jy just running away while he masses up a bit more, pepe is in trouble. jy has good econ good mass of units and defilers up, only 3 gas though.
pepe pressuring top right with his army but nydus+lurks+sunks and new defilers will hold it.
jy has way fewer units than he should. he might be going ultra or something, they havent shown.
3 lurks + swarm defends his main/nat vs a 4 tank + 30 rine army
pepe withdraws and they both run around the center until pepe moves to top right, gets hit with lurk/ling/swarm from both sides and loses most of his army. jy barely lost anything.
pepe expoing to bottom left main with a group of mm above the ramp, jy knows about it and is working on the ramp with swarm + a few lurks.
jy got 4 gases up and switching to hydra lurk.
pepes macro is good but he cant break through jy's defense anywhere, he keeps irradiating defilers when jy moves to attack so neither can do much in the way of attacking right now.
pepe ALMOST killed top right natural, a irradiated defiler got swarm up at last second
jy took bottom left natural, pepe killing it with small mm force now. pepes expo bottom left main is up but he hasnt sent scvs there, he cant really defend it if jy pressures hard.
finally jy actually has an army still small but at least quite some high tech and will finish it soon -_- too bad pepe was so badly behind from the start >.<
jy just made worst attack EVER, wasted like 5 ultas some lurk hydra ling and a defiler.
jy pushing again, some ult ling + 7~ guards and a few swarms. pepe pushed back to his natural, he'll hold but jy should take control pretty easy from here now that hes broken.
Z is going lair with their 2nd hatch, now with a hatch completed @ left nat, 1 vult taking shots @ drones in main, 1 drone killed for now. vult is now microing off quite alot of lings
2 ovies have now entered the void thanks to a wraith, canata now has mined out his center mins Scourge is now out but the wraith isnt doing any shit atm.
Canta has now landed CC @ center nat, Hoejja now has scourge and 3 muta, 1 hydralisk and not much else
canata pushes down left lane with big army, tosky attacks with 6~ lurks 16ish mutas and lots of lings. canata should have owned it but really sloppy marine micro lets tosky win the battle by a few lurkers, both with pretty big new armies.
Well the commenatators were very flattering. They sayd if you ask the KTF coach bout Jja they say he is a very consistant old schooler. And in practice he is very good.
Ontopic. DAMNIT JANGBI. however, I am happy that Chojja jsut won, it'd be great to see the cowboy zerg back in the leagues.
Offtopic. I've been curmudgeoning around on the Kespa site looking at Bisu/Savior's stats. I noticed Bisu in one set of stats had a 73% pvz winrate and Savior's ZvT was about 61%. I suppose they must have been offline/online totals too.
gate first for bestgod. hatch at nat for yellow. they're showing some TvT on monty in a mini-window! i have no idea who's playing. first zealot going for zerg base. lings will hatch in time i think. 3rd hatch next to nat hatch for yellow. 1 gate expo for bestgod. zealot runs home. yarnc sneakily mines out the mineral wall north of bestgod's expo. easily splits up his lings and 2 of them sneaks in while the rest distract the protoss forces. gas and forge up for bestgod. lair morphing. 1 zealot kills a couple of drones at yellow's expo! scouts main, no tech yet.
core up, ling speed too. yarnc making spire. lings harass a bit at expo but do no damage. yarnc making hatch at min only. bestgod kills his own probe to free up food for sair. 1st sair up and runs past a pair of scourge! but gets caught soon afterwards. yarnc has 6 mutas harassing a bit. bestgod has 1 goon 2 sairs to defend. the pylon powering all 3 gateways goes down, bestgod can't make any ground troops!
2 evo chambers and den up for yarnc, he's got lurkers at 7 where he is making hatch at nat. templar tech for bestgod. i was on phone i dont know what happened to mutas. ok they are still alive roaming map. yarnc getting hive. yarnc attacks bestgods min only and loses all his mutas and most his lings to ONE _PERFECT_ storm! bestgod moving into middle now. lings sneak into bestgods min only and gets the warping nexus into the red before dying. yarnc doing the lurk/sunken defense thing. bestgod doesn't know where to strike. yarnc once again sneaks into the min only but the nexus survives! bestgod moving into 7 nat and loses his obs which makes him take a lot of damage. everything dies and 3 goons left. 2 lurkers containing those 3 goons.
This sums up zergs first attack on boxers nat: decaf> I SAW FLANK AND WAS LIKE ALL THE RINES ARE GONNA DIE NOOOOOOOO <TL-H_> Why would you engage boxer in a micro war <decaf> AND THEN ALL I SEE IS BLOOD <TL-H_> Fucking suicide
Maybe he invested too much into the attack. He didn't expo and he had no more units at home, just 5 sunkens, while Boxer still had his nat and a small force of rines and tanks.
i could be wrong but i think boxer just hid his army insatead of fighting off attack on his main with it so that brown would send in follow up attack and get raped. fucking gneious.
btw decaf he didn't hide his army. That very army was what was sent to 9 o clock to halt the expo.
Boxer's original attack had 2 meds that survived. They met up with his later ~10 batch that stopped 9 o clock. Since it was too late to save it, Zergy counters. However, the counter sucks cuz it's mostly lings and a lot of hurt mutas from prior. The lings are dealt with by Boxer's building abuse micro. While his army at 9 finally redevouz as the Zerg's second wave counter, his all in instead of expo, comes.
wtf? Airforce players are allowed to participate in qualifiers again? Well I hope Mummy makes it through, since he was really the backbone of the ACE team last season.
it's because Korean Air Force do not give boxer enough time to practice. I heard he goes to different air force bases for shows and stuff alot. And enuogh with the commercials. Korea becoming more and more like US tv networks.
Yellow has a probe in the right lane, takes two tries to pylon jump into Purp's main, then builds EIGHT supply pylon in the top right corner of the base.
Garim starts 2 gateways, but terran finds him, starts attacking the pylon with scvs.
1 zeal 4 goons for garm, funny mines up outside of garim's nat, he has no siege yet I think, but no matter.
1 zeal 1 goon dies, garim uses some probes to push back the attack for now.
2nd push attempt from funny, garim loses all but 1 goon, LOL goon trapped inside the mineral line by 2 scvs, 2 vults and 2 tanks come inside garim's main now, probes pulled, goons dei, and he is officially fucked hahaha
6 rines 1 scv 1 tank moves out, garim meets it with 2 zeals and 2 goons, goons done have range yet, both go down to deep red hp, horrible control, really.
Garimto's performace was not stellar by any measure. However, i give the guy some credit for trying at his age after years of idleness in playing starcfraft.
On August 20 2007 19:29 str wrote: btw didnt nalra use to say that garimto is getting back in form ...
Garimto is many years older than Nalra, and they are on the same team. YOu don't say shit about someone older than you in KOrean culture man. Tha's just saying "kick my ass" please.
On August 20 2007 19:29 str wrote: btw didnt nalra use to say that garimto is getting back in form ...
Garimto is many years older than Nalra, and they are on the same team. YOu don't say shit about someone older than you in KOrean culture man. Tha's just saying "kick my ass" please.
He said that he is developing nicely, and is learning quickly and that he should be fully competitive in a year (which was what... said about 6months ago?)
best goes in with his shuttle to the left nat, it dies before dropping the reaver down, then best moves his mass goons right up to the wall and kills everything that was there defeinding and rapes it.
man... all of ace lost i dont think rage of sunny will win a group either... what suckage T_T; i wonder how boxer lost that last game ffs >.< and ra out as well T_T T_T_T_T_T_T_T when does the new proleague start?
On August 20 2007 20:12 Kaolla wrote: man... all of ace lost i dont think rage of sunny will win a group either... what suckage T_T; i wonder how boxer lost that last game ffs >.< and ra out as well T_T T_T_T_T_T_T_T when does the new proleague start?
wah at least tossgirl lost against the group winner ^_^; buuuuuuuut no boxer no clon no rage no sunny no ACE at all, what a sad day T_T i really need proleague T_T;
group D isnt that wow, although its alot harder than the rest of the groups its not like we got a savior boxer bisu nada group or something like that -_- midas will choke as will xellos so quite ez for the other 2 >.<
its only a minor league, midas might make stupid decisions sometimes but he doesnt choke at this stage. he should make it out 2-0, barring one of those stupid decisoins.
On August 21 2007 03:37 Kaolla wrote: doesnt this qualify for OSL yet? I guess if it doesnt he might not choke >.<
you do realize hes made it to the semi finals of two starleagues, right? ya, he choked when he got there, but qualifiers are a walk in the park for him.
just an fyi because I got confused myself. This OSC/ODT is for the starleague after the next. The 16 players for the up coming starleague is already decided.
Group A Practice, Much. [practice much? ;x] Practice is a fun guy [at least he has his own id. fuck his brother] and much is.. good.
Group B Reach, Jy. Mudang and one of the more interesting ZvTers.
Group C Sync, Flower. Fireworks Terran :DDD
Group D Midas, Anytime. Though I'm fine with XellOs replacing either of them. I want to see Midas get to a finals [though not necessarily to win]. Anytime's style is just so amusing. And.. XellOs is oldschool :D
Group E Yooi, Canata. I actually don't really care if Yooi makes it or not, but Canata better.
Group F Sea, Calm. Best of the group. I don't really like either [sorry steve teapeaarr]
On August 21 2007 05:56 Gokey wrote: man, these offline qualifiers are BRUTAL... so many of our old favorites eliminated... and they STILL have to go through ODT... wow
You mean they have to go through OSC and THEN they have to get through ODT
Zergman getting axed by another Zerg (he's sucking awesome at ZvZ), but I guess ZvZ is finicky like that.
Calm might finally get a chance at a debut in the majors. It will be interesting to see if the proleague ace is worth his weight going up against champions in series matches.
Much was expected. Tempest coming so close only gets me more psyched about that monster.
Casy axed by a Terran, hell, Hiya even coming out of that bracket is a bit of a surprise. Casy has truly fallen back to being a nothing. It's funny cuz he was a nothing for so longer before he hit it big with his awesome control, and now he's a nothing again. o.o
Gorush and GF both face trounced by Zergs. Sigh.
Oov axed by a Zerg. I'll be interested in seeing how NSP_Flower fares.
Kingdom losing to BestGod. -_-
Ra face trounced by a no name Terran. -_-
Boxer losing to a Zerg. -_-
Yellow again going nowhere. I'll get flamed big time for this, but is he even worth his contract anymore? He's probably spending too much time playing poker (seriously, wtf? Get your head in the game and show us that skill that made you a legend! Show us Storm Zerg).
What's with all these guys losing in their stronger match-ups too? Okay, maybe if Boxer lost to an up and coming P or something but... these guys are well known for the matches that they LOST in. And it seems like that's true for every big name who got eliminated.
I don't know what the maps are, so my predictions at this point are just wild guesses based on how strong people are in various match-ups. I'm sure there will be a predictions thread later, but I feel like predicting now, just for fun really.
Group A: 910 has sick TvT and TvZ. My picks from this group are 910 and Luxury. Much seems to be the biggest name from the group, but I don't trust his PvZ. He should be a sure win over 910, but he has to win against one of the Zergs to even have a chance of getting out. Luxury has strong enough ZvT that he can give 910 his all and his ZvZ is also really solid, though that MU is finicky. His ZvP isn't amazing, but should be good enough depending on the map. By.Raid is the wildcard. His results from the group stages though speak well for him, eliminating Boxer in a ZvT. -_-
In other words, it's actually somewhat hard to pick winners from this group as a lot will come down to maps and who's how strong on a given day.
Group B: Hiya is a no name with shit except for TvZ. Up until today I would not have believed him capable of doing what he did. 1-8 in TvT and then he walked through Ggoma, Casy and and Sheis. Granted, Ggoma never really does that well, Casy is slumping and Sheis has fairly average TvT, sometimes beating strong players and other times losing, but still, that's unexpected. However, IMO Yarnc is too much Zerg for him to handle, Jy is a wildcard (a player who IMO doesn't have results that match his level of ability) and Reach is a strong Terran killer. Yarnc is almost a sure thing from this group while IMO it's a toss up between Reach (I don't trust his PvZ and he needs to beat one of the Zergs to make it) and Jy (who IMO is stronger than his shitty record indicates). Then again, Hiya surprised me simply by making it.
Group C: Flower is the wildcard. He face trounced 3 Terrans in a row to come here, one of whom was OOV! Backho isn't a particularly amazing player. Rumble and Sync are the logical bets. I think Rumble will lose to Sync, but will beat Backho and maybe Flower. Rumble is someone I called out a long time ago as underrated when he made MSL. Hopefully, he won't disappoint me again.
Group D: Death group. In fact, why does D always seem to correspond to a death group? Is it because the D stands for death? Xellos is in a slump but should never be underestimated, Anytime is one of those gamers who either prepares the right builds and wins it all or tries to play it normally and plays at a very average level (yes, you heard me, aside from the special strategies he comes up with, his gaming is very average -- what the hell kind of player has been in 2 OSL championship matches, won one of those and also won a dual tournament AND IS A PROLEAGUE ACE and yet has a 92-89 50.8% lifetime win record?), while Shark is strong against Terrans (and there are 2 of them in this group) while terrible against toss (lose to Anytime? or will Anytime randomly suck?) and Midas is a monster even on his off days.
Midas should come out, but if everybody brings their A game to the table, it really will be a toss up.
Group E: Jaehoon is a no name as is Hogil. Canata and Yooi (even if he has very low win averages) are the logical choices as they both are past starleague qualifiers (Yooi is even a starleague regular).
Group F: Sea is a monster and none of the others are accomplished. Obviously, he should walk through this group. Skyhigh is a total unknown. Best and Calm both have some experience and it seems like Calm is a strong proleague ace despite not being able to go anywhere in the individuals. I'll put my money on Calm as the #2 man.
On August 21 2007 03:13 Kaolla wrote: group D isnt that wow, although its alot harder than the rest of the groups its not like we got a savior boxer bisu nada group or something like that -_- midas will choke as will xellos so quite ez for the other 2 >.<
As much as I'd love to see it happen, I doubt Anytime will make it through. He's just so incredibly random if he isn't in the Fall season, and even then it's a nightmare to bet on him. I was actauly rather happy to see Kingdom go down to Bestgod and seeing tempest progress thorugh. Those two interest me from what little I've seen of them.
Anytime on his good days (ie where he has an extra special build planned for the map) is not at all over rated and is perhaps even under rated. Anytime on most days (when he's playing a more standard game) is horribly over rated.
Midas may be a choke artist, but this is OSC not OSL and group stages, not Ro8 or Ro4. He has as good a shot as anyone else from that group.
What I'm interested in is seeing how all these rookies will fare. So many... some of them never having actually played in a major tournament (offline qualifiers don't count for shit).
Facts: Anytime has qualified for 2 Starleague finals and is the established proleague ace for his team. Despite this, his lifetime stats indicate a fairly average player (even guys like Yellow and Reach who haven't won anything in ages have lifetime average of like 54-55%). His seasonal statistics have been high against Zerg and Protoss, but...
Proleague PvZ stats: 5-0 (100%) on Nemesis: 2-0 (100%) on Monty Hall: 2-0 (100%) Proleague PvP stats: 9-4 (69.2%) on Nemesis: 5-2 (71.4%) on Monty Hall: 4-2 (66.7%)
Facts: 21 of his 48 games (43.8%) played this season were on Nemesis or Monty Hall. All but 1 of his games played this season have been on Nemesis or Monty Hall.
The reality is that Monty Hall is a map imbalanced in favor of Protoss and Nemesis happens to be "Anytime's map." Simply be being strong on two maps in the pool he has been a force to be reckoned with on the professional stage, but he's not exhibiting the diversity to dominate on the maps being used in the majors despite his ability to put together winning builds.
Anytime stats don't add up to give a cohesive picture of a champion. The reality is that it's difficult to see him as a champion at all unless he puts together those winning builds he's famous for. Otherwise, he is a good but not great Protoss. In straight-up game playing, he is not the image of a champion Protoss as Reach, Ra, Kingdom, Bisu or Stork are, or Grrrr, Garimto, or IntoTheRain were before they retired (Garimto's play in PSL was just laughable).
Anytime's Starleague win was only dramatic because it was a 3 PvT run through Xellos/Oov/Boxer. And even his games vs Xellos were close. Anytime really is just as overrated as Casy. He is not champion level AT ALL. He's a good player, can PvT on some maps and has good builds. But other than that he has nothing going for him at the moment.
Anytime was one of few Protosses who actually managed to win against Zerg for a year or more until Bisu broke through and free started kicking ass. Im not sure what his record is against July, but I think its better than most of the other top protosses.
His playing style is fun, and somewhat unique in these mainstream days, plus he can get on these cool winning streaks and has won some really intense high pressure matches. Everyone loves those, right? So his matches are even more memorable because of this.
So basically he's a good, but most importantly, charismatic player.
Facts: Anytime has qualified for 2 Starleague finals and is the established proleague ace for his team. Despite this, his lifetime stats indicate a fairly average player (even guys like Yellow and Reach who haven't won anything in ages have lifetime average of like 54-55%). His seasonal statistics have been high against Zerg and Protoss, but...
Fact: Out of the last 25 games, Anytime has won 18 of them. How many protoss players can boast that kind of a winning percentage? If you're gonna judge how good Anytime currently is, you need to gauge his recent record. That's a 64% winning record in his last 25 games. How many protoss players can claim that kind of a winning rate? You need to put a lot less emphasis on "lifetime records" and a lot more emphasis on "recent records"
Proleague PvZ stats: 5-0 (100%) on Nemesis: 2-0 (100%) on Monty Hall: 2-0 (100%) Proleague PvP stats: 9-4 (69.2%) on Nemesis: 5-2 (71.4%) on Monty Hall: 4-2 (66.7%)
Facts: 21 of his 48 games (43.8%) played this season were on Nemesis or Monty Hall. All but 1 of his games played this season have been on Nemesis or Monty Hall.
The reality is that Monty Hall is a map imbalanced in favor of Protoss and Nemesis happens to be "Anytime's map." Simply be being strong on two maps in the pool he has been a force to be reckoned with on the professional stage, but he's not exhibiting the diversity to dominate on the maps being used in the majors despite his ability to put together winning builds.
What? Monty Hall is a completely balanced map for PvT. And PvZ wise Anytime has played a grand total of 2 games on Monty Hall. Are you trying to discredit ALL of Anytime's games on Monty Hall just because he played TWO PvZ games on this map?
And the statement about Nemesis is just ridiculous. Zerg > Protoss almost 70% on Nemesis PvT on it is 7-12
The stats for Nemesis are already horrible for Protoss, and if it wasn't for Anytime, it would be a complete graveyard.
Did I hear you right that you're trying to discredit all of Anyime's wins on Nemesis, knowing that it's the most anti-protoss map in the current lineup, just because it "happens to be a map Anytime plays on?"
Seriously, did I hear you right on that?
Anytime stats don't add up to give a cohesive picture of a champion. The reality is that it's difficult to see him as a champion at all unless he puts together those winning builds he's famous for. Otherwise, he is a good but not great Protoss. In straight-up game playing, he is not the image of a champion Protoss as Reach, Ra, Kingdom, Bisu or Stork are, or Grrrr, Garimto, or IntoTheRain were before they retired (Garimto's play in PSL was just laughable).
Okay, so out of Anytime's recent games, which ones were the ones he won because of "those winning builds" that you keep mentioning?
@FakeSteve: that\'s because he miscounted but got the correct percentage. Anytime is 16-9 (64%) in his past 25 games, not 18-7.
LOL! tfeign again...
I remember when you tried to argue that Chojja\'s ZvT was better than Savior\'s. You even got to the point where you were pulling games out of Chojja\'s record saying \"he shouldn\'t have lost this\" or \"this game was unimportant.\" Then who became known as the most dominant player in the world? Savior, duh.
I also remember calling the series between Chojja and Casy exactly as it happened. How? By looking at the statistics from an objective point of view and then using a study of game style (done as objectively as possible, but this is always subjective and therefore subject to bias) to analyze how it would go down. Chojja\'s only hope was to win the game on Peaks, and failing to win that meant basically automatically losing the series.
Now, let us look at your \"objective\" report. You chose to look at the past 25 games. 25 seems like a nice, even, \"unbiased\" number, but is it really? The answer is no. You chose that because it roughly corresponds to the start of the proleague season. To be specific, the only proleague matches not amongst his past 25 games are a win over Hery (26 games ago) and a loss to Iris (30 games ago). Problem: focusing on only these 25 games specifically means that you are focusing almost exclusively on his proleague stats. Why are there almost no individual league games contained in this streak? Because Anytime was not qualifying for individual leagues.
In the proleague, the team places you on the map where you will do best. This means placing a player on not only a map they are good on, but on a map where the most likely match-up is one they are good with for the map (it\'s important to note that we\'re talking about how well the player plays that MU on THAT SPECIFIC MAP, not on any other maps).
For instance, Boxer\'s lifetime record on R-Point is 11-3. In TvP on R-Point, Boxer went 5-2 playing against a pretty damn strong toss line-up (Much, Rock, Reach, Pusan, Foru, Anytime). Boxer\'s lifetime TvP was only 47.3% wins. Obviously, Boxer\'s TvP on R-Point is much better than his TvP on other maps.
Why is this important? Because 21 of Anytime\'s 23 proleague matches played were on either Nemesis or Monty Hall.
You insist that Monty Hall is balanced? PvT 33-28 (54.1%) - that\'s not too bad, but... PvZ 11-5 (68.7%) - whoa, not good! And also... TvZ 17-11 (60.7%) - not good!
Am I going to discredit his wins here because the map favors Protoss? Definitely not. I said he went 6-5 on this map and that means that he went 6-5 on this map. That statement is final, non-retractible.
Going 6-5 on a map good for your race isn\'t particularly amazing, but it\'s still good. Especially since 3 of those losses were against players top 5 in the world (Iris, Hwasin, Stork). I won\'t discredit those losses because those were good players (if I was going to do that, I\'d discredit his wins against newbies), but what this all amounts to is that he\'s solid on that map and plays a lot of games on it, thus his ability ON THIS MAP is dominating a large part of his \"recent record.\" This is BUT ONE OF MANY MAPS OUT THERE! (GASP) A champion is someone who is solid on most of the maps he plays, facing people when he doesn\'t get to CHOOSE which map he plays on and still coming out strong.
Fact: In starleague matches you aren\'t choosing your map for all the games you play.
Anytime\'s performance on Nemesis is an anomaly. It\'s sort of like how Boxer\'s TvP sucks (by top tier Terran standards) on most maps and yet he pwns the shit out of solid toss players on R-Point.
Anytime has figured Nemesis out. He\'s strong on it where others are weak. This is one of those ways where he flashes the brilliance of a championship mind (just like he did with the 3 gate dts vs Yellow), but in the same year he has gone 13-14 on all maps other than Nemesis and Monty. Hell, he is 19-19 for the year on all maps other than Nemesis. Those are not the stats you\'d expect from a champion. Right now, he\'s championing two maps, one in particular, not the full spectrum you need to be championship material.
And the individual results agree with me. In 2007 his stats against KeSPA top 30 gamers are... 1-4 against Stork (Stork is hot, I\'d expect this) 1-2 against July 1-2 against Gorush 0-2 against Hwasin (Hwasin is hot, I\'d expect this) 0-1 against Iris (Iris is hot, I\'d expect this) 1-2 against DarkElf 1-1 against Bisu (good) 2-0 against Free (good) 2-0 against FireBatHero (FBH is kinda weak TvP so I\'d expect this) 0-2 against UpMagic 0-1 against Sea[Shield] Overall vs top 30 gamers... 3-5 PvP 3-8 PvT 2-4 PvZ 8-17 Total (OUCH!)
Anytime is hot right now? -His last 25 games are almost exclusively proleague because he didn\'t qualify for the majors -His proleague games are almost exclusively on 2 maps, so it doesn\'t give a good overall view of his ability -His proleague games, while definitely not all easy, are mostly not against top 30 ranked players, so I\'d expect him to do pretty well in them, especially since proleague is the only league he has to practice for on a week-to-week basis -His games THIS YEAR against actual top ranked players are mostly losses
How do we know if we can take statistics at face value? Are they truly an adequate representation of a player\'s ability? Does it include a broad spectrum of maps as well as match conditions? Is it a broad spectrum of maps? A broad spectrum of opponent races? A broad spectrum of opponent skill sets?
The best place for getting these answers is in the individual leagues, not proleague. In the individuals, you don\'t get to pick your maps (except for some past MSL finals in determining what map would be played twice) and you have very limited control over your opponent\'s race (aside from group selection stage, no control). Since maps in the proleague aren\'t always so well balanced (Geometry, ROFL!), you have a pretty good idea of what race your opponent will be. The only condition that isn\'t directly influenced by the fact that it\'s a proleague match is the opponent\'s playing style, but even then, certain styles are geared more towards certain maps, so you can more likely expect those players on those maps.
Anytime\'s performances in the individual leagues lately have been pathetic. This year, he is 10-13 in individual league games, not passing through the qualifiers for either OSL or MSL.
Is he a bad gamer? Definitely not, however, his lifetime stats paint an adequate picture of his overall ability: he\'s pretty good, but definitely a solid notch (or two) below guys like Kingdom, Nal_Ra, or Reach.
You're now discrediting Anytime's wins because they are Proleague games?
In the proleague, the team places you on the map where you will do best.
AND SO DOES THE OTHER TEAM!
Why is your argument so one-sided? Of course, a team is going to send out their best player on a map he's confident in, but that doesn't happen with one team. That happens with BOTH.
The fact that in the individual leagues, players do not get to choose their maps increases the luck factor, and decreases the skill factor. A player might get unlucky and be forced to play on an imbalanced map that doesn't tell a whole lot. The winner of a game may not always be the better player.
The fact that in Proleague matches, players do get to choose their maps decreases the luck factor, and increases the skill factor because both players are playing on a map they're both confident with. The winner of a game is much more likely a better player.
On August 22 2007 15:24 tfeign wrote: You're now discrediting Anytime's wins because they are Proleague games?
Where have I discredited them? I have not at all discounted them. Merely, I pointed out the truth: individual league wins are more impressive. Simply put, you are stuck spreading your time and energy between multiple maps, multiple match-ups and the full spectrum of player types.
My argument is simple: Anytime does not show himself to be a consistent killer, a player universally dominant across the board. Bisu, Stork, Savior, and Hwasin all are. Anytime shows flashes of brilliance at times, throwing down against the best of them at times, but most of the time he plays at a fairly average level.
Viewing only proleague results and saying that this is indicative of his overall skill is fallacious, since a flash of brilliance can mean dominating one particular map, much like Anytime has done with Nemesis.
AND SO DOES THE OTHER TEAM!
Why is your argument so one-sided? Of course, a team is going to send out their best player on a map he's confident in, but that doesn't happen with one team. That happens with BOTH.
Other players who are considered top tier along with Anytime have LEAGUE MATCHES to prepare for. The fact that Anytime does not gives him a huge advantage over these players. Most of the players Anytime faces who are not in individual leagues are not at all top tier.
In fact, to be precise, I only see one name I'd consider to be top tier in Anytime's proleague results who is not qualifying for leagues: Chojja, who is in a MAJOR slump right now with his stats for this year being 5-12 (29.4%).
The only other player who even might be considered top tier would be ForU, but IMO he has not been remotely top tier for years and so far this year he has only played 5 games, winning just 1 of them. He's past his prime and I would EXPECT a player of Anytime's caliber to beat ForU.
The fact that in the individual leagues, players do not get to choose their maps increases the luck factor, and decreases the skill factor. A player might get unlucky and be forced to play on an imbalanced map that doesn't tell a whole lot. The winner of a game may not always be the better player.
The fact that in Proleague matches, players do get to choose their maps decreases the luck factor, and increases the skill factor because both players are playing on a map they're both confident with. The winner of a game is much more likely a better player.
EXCUSE ME?! ARE YOU SAYING STARLEAGUES ARE WON ON LUCK?!?!?!?!?! If you honestly believe that crap, go commit suicide asap and rid this world of your stupidity.
Playing games on one map does not give you an accurate picture of a player's skills. A gamer who is unusually strong on just one map and not particularly amazing elsewhere is not of the same caliber as a well-rounded player. Not to mention that Anytime only has those two maps he prepares for on a weekly basis while a player in the starleagues is training more strategies and builds for more maps.
That doesn't mean that the "luck factor is removed thereby making it a fair game." What that DOES mean is that Anytime is going into the games with an advantage, especially considering that Nemesis (his dominant map) wasn't even used for either starleague.
Below is a sort of case study, if you will, taking your assumptions about Anytime's form and applying them to Boxer from between mid 2004 and the end of 2005.
What you are doing is akin to looking at Boxer's skill purely based on Requiem and R-Point. R-Point: 11-3 (78.6%) vP 5-2 (71.4%) vT 3-1 (75%) vZ 3-0 (100%) Requeim: 11-3 (78.6%) vP 1-2 (33.3%) vT 5-0 (100%) vZ 5-1 (83.3%) Overall: 22-6 (78.6%) vP 6-4 (60%) vT 8-1 (88.9%) vZ 8-1 (88.9%)
Tell me, do you actually think that this paints an accurate picture of Boxer's statistics?
Boxer's games from Requiem can be found mainly in the latter half of 2004 and his games from R-Point can be found mainly in the latter half of 2005. During this timeframe, (June 1st, 2004 to January 1st, 2006) Boxer's stats were: Overall: 72-52 (58.1%) vP 25-26 (49.0%) vT 20-12 (62.5%) vZ 27-14 (65.9%)
These stats are still very good (even without Requiem and R-Point, Boxer was doing better than 50% wins during this era despite the large number of games played on those two maps), but quite a bit lower.
The most dominant player from this era was without question Iloveoov. His overall stats were 102-64 (61.5%). Throughout this timeframe, Oov was a dominant force on the KeSPA rankings as well as the champion of no less than three Starleagues (not to mention thta achieved 3rd place in two additional leagues). Oov's overall win% is not substantially better than Boxer's was (the difference is statistically significant, but the difference itself is fairly small) and while Boxer dominated 2 maps completely, Oov was more diversified in where he achieved his wins.
If we take Boxer's games only from Requiem and R-Point, his statistics would indicate a player above Oov in caliber, which he clearly was not during this timeframe.
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The difference between Anytime's current results and Boxer's results from this era is that Boxer was playing many games on other maps as well and doing fairly well on them (better than 50% wins). Consequently, Boxer actually WAS qualifying for the majors, played a more diverse map set and opponent set (and dare I say it, a HARDER set of gamers) and doing quite well. His accomplishments during this timeframe (late 04 through 05): 2nd place 2005 So1 OnGameNet StarLeague 2nd place 2004 EVER OnGameNet StarLeague 1st place 2004 G-Voice OnGameNet Challenge League
According to you, we can take Anytime's proleague results at face value and they paint an equally accurate picture of Anytime's current form as Boxer's results over that timeframe indicate for him. What are Anytime's recent accomplishments? Aside from being a solid proleague ace, he has none.
Anytime's past 25 games taken at face value would mean that Anytime right now is a stronger presence on the world stage than Boxer or Oov was for that given timeframe. This is clearly not the case.
You did a similar thing with Chojja. You said that his matches on 815 should be ignored because of map imbalance, focusing heavily on his matches on Rush Hour, a map he was strong on. These maps were used for both leagues, and yet Savior was the player who made all the Terrans shit bricks. Chojja's ZvT on Rush Hour was at least as good as Saviors, but Savior was far more competent on 815, which gave him a huge advantage. In the end, that Savior's more well-rounded dominance in ZvT pushed him through and even today he is the top Zerg while Chojja has fallen out of the KeSPA top 30 as he has failed to qualify for either starleague and produced a very average 5-5 record in proleague so far this year (in fact, ALL his wins from this year are proleague).
It's far, far harder to do well in the starleague as it forces players to diversify their builds and strategies to accommodate a wider map selection and wider opponent selection (both in terms of style and race). Winning an OSL with a record of 12-7 (2-1 group, 2-1 ro16, 2-1 ro8, 3-2 ro4, 3-2 champ, 63.2%) is far, far, far, FAR more impressive than Anytime's 16-9 statistics in his past 25 games. Simply put, you're preparing for too many more possibilities.
On August 22 2007 15:42 Manifesto7 wrote: Are the final result anywhere or do I read a 25 page thread?
Sonuvbob posted the selections for StarChallenge: + Show Spoiler +
◆Star Challenge 2007 Season2 ▶Group A Luxury (Z) vs Much (P) 910[Ete] (T) vs by.raid (Z)
▶Group B Reach (P) vs Sea.Jy (Z) YellOw[ArnC] (Z) vs HiyA[fOu] (T)
▶Group C BackHo[WHITE] (P) vs Rumble (Z) NsP_Flower (Z) vs Sync (T)
▶Group D Shark (Z) vs Midas (T) XellOs (T) vs Anytime (P)
▶Group E Yooi (T) vs HoGiL (Z) n.Die_Jaehoon (P) vs Canata (T)
▶Group F Sea[Shield] (T) vs BeSt[HyO] (P) InteR.Calm (Z) vs SkyHigh[fOu] (T)
RESULTS OF PSL: Group A -> Jy B -> Calm C -> Much D -> Hiya E -> Hogil F -> Canata G -> Flower H -> Yarnc I -> 910 J -> Raid K -> Midas L -> Anytime M -> Xellos N -> SkyHigh O -> Best
"The reality is that it's difficult to see him as a champion at all unless he puts together those winning builds he's famous for"
"In straight-up game playing, he is not the image of a champion"
dude... he is a champion, he won a starleague and came in 2nd in one, there are very few protoss players who have achived more than that. and claiming he cant win straight-up is just plain ignorance, I suggest you watch the two starleague finals he played in then come back here and tell me how many of those games were build order wins.
No Anytime is not championship material anymore. Stop living in the glory days. Sync won a Starleague also but do you see everyone around here claiming he's still one of the best?
He came in 2nd in one and then DISAPPEARED. I'd rate Nal_Ra, Kingdom and Reach far above Anytime in overall skill because he really was just a one hit wonder. Just LOOK at the his stats. Can you honestly believe that's the record of someone with championship material at the current time?
As I already said, Protoss players like Garimto, Reach, Ra, Kingdom and now Stork and Bisu stand head and shoulders above him. He's not the consistent killer that you would expect a champion to be. I have not at all forgotten his SO1 win, but a player who has made two starleague finals and is a proleague ace is not someone you'd expect to lose so frequently or prevalently. He is not the image of a champion.
On August 23 2007 04:03 Ace wrote: No Anytime is not championship material anymore. Stop living in the glory days. Sync won a Starleague also but do you see everyone around here claiming he's still one of the best?
He came in 2nd in one and then DISAPPEARED. I'd rate Nal_Ra, Kingdom and Reach far above Anytime in overall skill because he really was just a one hit wonder. Just LOOK at the his stats. Can you honestly believe that's the record of someone with championship material at the current time?
Kingdom?? I wouldnt rate him far above anytime >.<
Kingdom definitely is a step above. I'd hesitate before calling him two steps above though. But in either case, Kingdom HAS shown more consistency in qualifying for the majors. Anytime, meanwhile, will go on a hot streak and totally disappear afterwards.
He's not a shitty player. But rather than being a true champion (and I don't mean that in terms of being a starleague winner, but in terms of being DOMINANT on the professional scene as a WHOLE), he's a wildcard, pulling off brilliant wins one moment and then getting knocked to the lowest levels of qualification the next. This is my whole point about him and I think a lot of people rate him based on when he's "on" rather than looking at the bigger picture. And as for his current skill level, a good record in the proleague isn't going to convince me that he's "on" at the level he would need to win even OSC, let alone OSL.
Edit: I feel like clarifying something. I don't mean that Anytime is a streaky player, because he's not really that either. NaDa would be a streaky player, but even when he's "off" he is among the most challenging of opponents you could face, and even when he doesn't have a special strategy planned, he's an opponent to be feared.
Everyone has ups and downs, slumps and high points. Anytime will do a lot and then do nothing. In Anytime's case, he needs to pick the right set of strategies out to truly do amazingly well. These strategies don't always include unique builds never seen before, but are often not truly "standard play." The difference though between Anytime doing this and Ra doing this is that Anytime seems to need to practice things out carefully to get the exact timing done, whereas Ra and Boxer are guys who can come up with brilliant plays on the fly. In spur of the moment decision making, Anytime is not a genius. Anytime is not as flexible and not as capable at throwing down a standard game, thus I believe firmly that he is on a tier down from Ra, Reach or Kingdom as well as Stork and Bisu, who are quickly joining those three as solid champions of Protoss.
This sense I have gotten is reinforced by comments he makes during interviews, most notably by his comments about the planning of builds and his practice schedule. He's a hardworker and quite skilled, but he's missing the well-roundedness he needs to truly champion his race (or in other words, DOMINATE).
Unlike streaky players, Anytime doesn't reach the height of his capacity and then stand on top of the mountain screaming "I am the king!" Instead, when he climbs the mountain he slips off and is forced to look for another long, winding trail to the top. His determination to do that more than once is highly commendible and most likely beyond almost everyone else, but until he can really make his stand at the top, I will always have reservations about him.
Anytime is so successful in the proleague because he is solid on Monty Hall and Nemesis he has figured out completely. In the individual leagues, he has faltered. Against KeSPA top 30 ranked opponents, he has often faltered. His KeSPA rank is a fairly accurate indicator of where he stands right now, and it's not top 10.
On August 23 2007 04:03 Ace wrote: No Anytime is not championship material anymore. Stop living in the glory days. Sync won a Starleague also but do you see everyone around here claiming he's still one of the best?
He came in 2nd in one and then DISAPPEARED. I'd rate Nal_Ra, Kingdom and Reach far above Anytime in overall skill because he really was just a one hit wonder. Just LOOK at the his stats. Can you honestly believe that's the record of someone with championship material at the current time?
Kingdom?? I wouldnt rate him far above anytime >.<
Anytime is actually semi usefull in the proleague man. Kingdom sucks balls all around, nal ra has ups and downs, and reach might be reviving himself, but only time will tell.
Also when anytime's 2nd is mentioned, realise that he had a much harder road to the finals than nada, also game 5 nada played a little cheesy.
Beating inter.mind and hery is a pretty big feat, especially for an older progamer such as anytime.
On August 23 2007 04:05 Mortality wrote: As I already said, Protoss players like Garimto, Reach, Ra, Kingdom and now Stork and Bisu stand head and shoulders above him. He's not the consistent killer that you would expect a champion to be. I have not at all forgotten his SO1 win, but a player who has made two starleague finals and is a proleague ace is not someone you'd expect to lose so frequently or prevalently. He is not the image of a champion.
luckily garimto is?? im sure in those days he was the killer as well (well im not but i just assume so) if we look at garimto now... the avg bnet player would rape him >.<
If Casy didn't play Protosses, then what races were Nal_Ra and IntoTheRainbow? -_-
He played them both, losing to Ra and winning against Rainbow. Once he got to the Ro16, there was a cleared path however. But while that's true, had Casy lost to Rainbow, he would have been out of the whole tournament. Not to mention it was Casy who knocked Anytime out of the previous starleague (Shinhan 2005).
Casy was not really *that* lucky. He's not well rounded in his match-ups as a champion should be and I doubt anyone thinks of him as a champion Terran, but during this timeframe Casy's TvZ and TvT were both incredibly, incredibly solid -- enough to make up the deficit for his lack of TvP ability. Comparing Anytime and Casy, they have almost identical overall lifetime win%'s, despite the fact that Casy was a no name pro for years before he ever made it big. So, as you can tell, Casy's TvT and TvZ ability were enough to launch him to stardom. As soon as players studied his style, his lack of macro caught up with him, and now he's almost back to his nobody status.
During this timeframe, 2005 Shinhan through the end of his OSL championship in 2006 Shinhan-1, he was an impressive 28-16 (63.6%) against the stiffest competition of that era. The fact that not many toss gamers were among said stiff competition is not a matter of luck, but a matter of lack of development of toss during that timeframe.
Getting 4th place in one OSL and then 1st place the next does not make him just plain lucky; it makes him skilled.
Am I going to say that he was the only candidate worthy for winning that OSL? No. Luck plays a factor in all games, but you cannot ride luck alone to the top. For similar reasons as to why Casy was not lucky, Anytime wasn't either. The fact is that premeditated strategies or not, Anytime managed to cut through the stiffest competition around during SO1.
Neither Casy nor Anytime is a true champion of their race, however. Anytime could be if he was just a bit stronger at decision making and Casy could be if he honed his TvP at least to the point where he could win 50% of them (however, do not laugh and say "of course a champion must win more than 50%" because Boxer is a champion and he won less than 50% of his lifetime TvP's, and even during Boxer's "era" he struggled in that match-up).
On August 23 2007 04:05 Mortality wrote: As I already said, Protoss players like Garimto, Reach, Ra, Kingdom and now Stork and Bisu stand head and shoulders above him. He's not the consistent killer that you would expect a champion to be. I have not at all forgotten his SO1 win, but a player who has made two starleague finals and is a proleague ace is not someone you'd expect to lose so frequently or prevalently. He is not the image of a champion.
luckily garimto is?? im sure in those days he was the killer as well (well im not but i just assume so) if we look at garimto now... the avg bnet player would rape him >.<
I know that. You know what I meant. Garimto's feats "back in the day" stand out on a different level than Anytime stands out on today.
Casy and Anytime are amazing stylists. STFU. Anytime is a true champ of the race... He out performs many champions including Reach,Zeus, and Kingdom atm.
Casy, whatever, his TvZ and TvT were soo sick. You guys forget so fast. If you look at Casy through Shinhan, he never went down to anyone hard cept Pusan. Every series he dismantled people or fought toe to toe attacking hard, his style.
And Kingdom was an MSL regular until the most recent changes in style. I miss him but to say he sucks ball is ignorance. You can't judge one of the oldest careers in BW due to a moment right now. Even now, yeah, even now, his PvP is mean.
Half a year down the line, GGPlay and Iris are gonna get grilled like no fuckn tomorrow -_-;;
Mortality your arguments are horrible and your examples are vastly biased [I can cite a million different examples that counteract your claims but I wont bother]. I liked how you translated this of post mine:
The fact that in the individual leagues, players do not get to choose their maps increases the luck factor, and decreases the skill factor. A player might get unlucky and be forced to play on an imbalanced map that doesn't tell a whole lot. The winner of a game may not always be the better player.
The fact that in Proleague matches, players do get to choose their maps decreases the luck factor, and increases the skill factor because both players are playing on a map they're both confident with. The winner of a game is much more likely a better player.
Into this:
EXCUSE ME?! ARE YOU SAYING STARLEAGUES ARE WON ON LUCK?!?!?!?!?! If you honestly believe that crap, go commit suicide asap and rid this world of your stupidity.
Don't put words in my mouth.
And yes, it's far more easier and common for players to perform well in Starleagues due to factors of luck than to perform well in Proleague due to factors of luck.
EPT
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