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[ASTL] Grand Finals

Forum Index > Brood War Tournaments
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BLinD-RawR
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
ALLEYCAT BLUES50864 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-02-28 05:19:43
February 28 2021 05:18 GMT
#1

2021 AfreecaTV StarCraft Team League Season 2


Sunday, Feb 28 8:00am GMT (GMT+00:00)


(Wiki)2021 AfreecaTV StarCraft Team League Season 2


Casters & Hosts



박상현, 임성춘, 이승원, 이현경


Streams


Korean Afreeca Stream


Matchups and Maps




[image loading][image loading]







Results


+ Show Spoiler [Full results] +








TL.net Vote



Poll: Grand Finals, Winner?

eSport.Fund (10)
 
67%

LOGINmedia (5)
 
33%

15 total votes

Your vote: Grand Finals, Winner?

(Vote): eSport.Fund
(Vote): LOGINmedia





CSS: FO-nTTaX
Banner: v1

Brood War EICWoo Jung Ho, never forget.| Twitter: @BLinDRawR
BLinD-RawR
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
ALLEYCAT BLUES50864 Posts
February 28 2021 08:10 GMT
#2
guess people forgot it starts 2 hours earlier?
Brood War EICWoo Jung Ho, never forget.| Twitter: @BLinDRawR
Pangpootata
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
1838 Posts
February 28 2021 08:25 GMT
#3
it's been 25 minutes and still padding, no games started yet...
alypse
Profile Joined May 2010
2772 Posts
February 28 2021 08:36 GMT
#4
Tuned right into Stock vs Flash! Let's gooooo.
KT Violet 1988 - 2012
nojok
Profile Joined May 2011
France15846 Posts
February 28 2021 08:48 GMT
#5
First time I see a game with tanks spending more team fighting in their unsieged mode than sieged mode.
"Back then teams that won were credited, now it's called throw. I think it's sad." - Kuroky - Flap Flap Wings!
oxKnu
Profile Joined December 2017
1258 Posts
February 28 2021 08:49 GMT
#6
Although this might sound stupid, I honestly felt like that was an APM loss more than anything.

With better multitasking and micro, Protoss should win from that position 85% of the time.
[Fin]Vittu
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Canada507 Posts
February 28 2021 08:51 GMT
#7
I wonder if this flash vs stork game gave stork memories of the GSI and Bacchus OSL slappings he received
The "Finnish Metal Terran"
BLinD-RawR
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
ALLEYCAT BLUES50864 Posts
February 28 2021 08:53 GMT
#8
what a bizarre game, almost impatient from flash, must be the wrist issues
Brood War EICWoo Jung Ho, never forget.| Twitter: @BLinDRawR
MinixTheNerd
Profile Joined July 2019
200 Posts
February 28 2021 08:54 GMT
#9
idk how I feel about that base race attempt by stork, but w/e flash was still in good spot either way
staatbauhaus
Profile Joined February 2020
99 Posts
February 28 2021 08:54 GMT
#10
Organ stated Stork army movement was insane but Flash micro was god tier. Most T's (himself included) would have lost vs P in that push.
BLinD-RawR
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
ALLEYCAT BLUES50864 Posts
February 28 2021 08:58 GMT
#11
miso got a good matchup against soulkey now
Brood War EICWoo Jung Ho, never forget.| Twitter: @BLinDRawR
oxKnu
Profile Joined December 2017
1258 Posts
February 28 2021 09:00 GMT
#12
On February 28 2021 17:54 staatbauhaus wrote:
Organ stated Stork army movement was insane but Flash micro was god tier. Most T's (himself included) would have lost vs P in that push.


Not just you. I think from these spots Terran almost always loses.

However, Stork's reaver was too late I felt. Maybe he built too many obs.

ggsimida
Profile Joined August 2015
1156 Posts
February 28 2021 09:02 GMT
#13
On February 28 2021 17:53 BLinD-RawR wrote:
what a bizarre game, almost impatient from flash, must be the wrist issues


clearly want to end it earlier going for that 4->6 fact at crossspawn. but like others have mentioned his micro/movement of the army was top notch that made even stork struggled
BLinD-RawR
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
ALLEYCAT BLUES50864 Posts
February 28 2021 09:08 GMT
#14
well, guess its an easy lob from here for esports.fund
Brood War EICWoo Jung Ho, never forget.| Twitter: @BLinDRawR
oxKnu
Profile Joined December 2017
1258 Posts
February 28 2021 09:12 GMT
#15
Did they say Flash got surgery during his break?

I didn't catch the intro.
BLinD-RawR
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
ALLEYCAT BLUES50864 Posts
February 28 2021 09:39 GMT
#16
the double edge of playing crazy zerg
Brood War EICWoo Jung Ho, never forget.| Twitter: @BLinDRawR
BLinD-RawR
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
ALLEYCAT BLUES50864 Posts
February 28 2021 09:57 GMT
#17
this game lol
Brood War EICWoo Jung Ho, never forget.| Twitter: @BLinDRawR
oxKnu
Profile Joined December 2017
1258 Posts
February 28 2021 10:09 GMT
#18
There's no doubt in my mind that ZerO has the best mechanics in the history of Broodwar.

There's no one else that is capable of playing like this. It literally doesn't matter if he is behind or not after a certain point in ZvP.
RowdierBob
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
Australia13409 Posts
February 28 2021 10:11 GMT
#19
Free was playing really well and still at no point did I think he had a chance this game. Zero's ZvP is near unbeatable.
"Terrans are pretty much space-Australians" - H
darktreb
Profile Joined May 2007
United States3017 Posts
February 28 2021 10:17 GMT
#20
What is the format from here? Players can be sent out again?
Zaibakk
Profile Joined May 2017
101 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-02-28 10:25:59
February 28 2021 10:21 GMT
#21
Free threw the game in the attack on Zero's 5th base at 3oc. It was so obvious he was going to be sandwiched, and he lost all army, while also not even killing the hatch. Anyway Zero too good. Glad to see 2-2 for a close series.
whiterabbit
Profile Joined June 2009
2675 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-02-28 10:26:37
February 28 2021 10:25 GMT
#22
Watching competitive BW when I manage but not too much, was just wondering why is there no English cast for this? Arent Tastosis covering BW too?
NUTELLA y u no make me skinny?!?
ggsimida
Profile Joined August 2015
1156 Posts
February 28 2021 10:26 GMT
#23
On February 28 2021 19:17 darktreb wrote:
What is the format from here? Players can be sent out again?



"As previously mentioned, the teams are moving into best-of-7 territory, which should by and large change the dynamics of the tournament. As a refresher (since I can't recall us ever having dealt with a similar format): teams submit lineups for the first 6 games, for sets #5 & #6 teams are allowed to once again send out a player who has played before (only once, no chance of sending the same person out for both #5 and #6) and then if they're still tied they move onto the ACE match, though with a catch - same rules apply as to #5 and #6, meaning if any player has already played twice they can't be sent out again for the ACE."
BLinD-RawR
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
ALLEYCAT BLUES50864 Posts
February 28 2021 10:38 GMT
#24
Huuge upset Rush beats Flash
Brood War EICWoo Jung Ho, never forget.| Twitter: @BLinDRawR
Sorusaba
Profile Joined October 2017
298 Posts
February 28 2021 10:38 GMT
#25
what just happened :0
RowdierBob
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
Australia13409 Posts
February 28 2021 10:39 GMT
#26
So Flash and Zero can play 3 times?

Ugh, Esport Fund are screwed here with Flash dropping that one. Not sure any of them can beat Zero.
"Terrans are pretty much space-Australians" - H
nojok
Profile Joined May 2011
France15846 Posts
February 28 2021 10:39 GMT
#27
Game is harder when you don't hide your race behind cheesy random pick.
"Back then teams that won were credited, now it's called throw. I think it's sad." - Kuroky - Flap Flap Wings!
RowdierBob
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
Australia13409 Posts
February 28 2021 10:40 GMT
#28
Assume it'll be SK vs Zero here.
"Terrans are pretty much space-Australians" - H
Scaramanga
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Australia8092 Posts
February 28 2021 10:44 GMT
#29
On February 28 2021 19:39 RowdierBob wrote:
So Flash and Zero can play 3 times?

Ugh, Esport Fund are screwed here with Flash dropping that one. Not sure any of them can beat Zero.

I think a player can only play twice, so Flash can't play ace
Loda talked about the fun counter, it's AdmiralBulldog on his natures prophet
whaski
Profile Joined December 2012
Finland577 Posts
February 28 2021 10:46 GMT
#30
On February 28 2021 19:38 BLinD-RawR wrote:
Huuge upset Rush beats Flash



Heh give some credit to Rush. All that grinding and practice is starting to show. Other terrans would have been terrified when Flash starts to siege natural but Rush know his production advantage and used vultures beautifully to gain mapcontrol and reduce scvs. Great showing from Rush!
it's not just a music it's something else
BLinD-RawR
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
ALLEYCAT BLUES50864 Posts
February 28 2021 10:48 GMT
#31
On February 28 2021 19:46 whaski wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 28 2021 19:38 BLinD-RawR wrote:
Huuge upset Rush beats Flash



Heh give some credit to Rush. All that grinding and practice is starting to show. Other terrans would have been terrified when Flash starts to siege natural but Rush know his production advantage and used vultures beautifully to gain mapcontrol and reduce scvs. Great showing from Rush!


I'm not taking away any credit, beating flash is always going to be considered an upset.
Brood War EICWoo Jung Ho, never forget.| Twitter: @BLinDRawR
RowdierBob
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
Australia13409 Posts
February 28 2021 10:48 GMT
#32
On February 28 2021 19:44 Scaramanga wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 28 2021 19:39 RowdierBob wrote:
So Flash and Zero can play 3 times?

Ugh, Esport Fund are screwed here with Flash dropping that one. Not sure any of them can beat Zero.

I think a player can only play twice, so Flash can't play ace

Ah crap, I can't read. Was in ggsimida's post. My bad.

Bit of a miscue from Flash not saving himself for the Ace. If SK does pull through here, who plays? I guess you have to play Action and go the ZvZ lottery. No chance Free comes back for round 2 vs Zero.
"Terrans are pretty much space-Australians" - H
Kanil
Profile Joined April 2010
United States1713 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-02-28 10:52:57
February 28 2021 10:52 GMT
#33
On February 28 2021 19:48 RowdierBob wrote:
Bit of a miscue from Flash not saving himself for the Ace.


I mean, you don't want to lose 4-2 without having played your best player twice because you were saving him for a match that never ended up happening.
I used to have an Oz icon over here ---->
Pangpootata
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
1838 Posts
February 28 2021 10:56 GMT
#34
On February 28 2021 19:48 BLinD-RawR wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 28 2021 19:46 whaski wrote:
On February 28 2021 19:38 BLinD-RawR wrote:
Huuge upset Rush beats Flash



Heh give some credit to Rush. All that grinding and practice is starting to show. Other terrans would have been terrified when Flash starts to siege natural but Rush know his production advantage and used vultures beautifully to gain mapcontrol and reduce scvs. Great showing from Rush!


I'm not taking away any credit, beating flash is always going to be considered an upset.


beating flash always makes me upset
whaski
Profile Joined December 2012
Finland577 Posts
February 28 2021 11:01 GMT
#35
Lol Miso, maybe next season.
it's not just a music it's something else
BLinD-RawR
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
ALLEYCAT BLUES50864 Posts
February 28 2021 11:03 GMT
#36
going to ACE match

esport.fund can only field Action and Free(and pusan)
LOGINmedia can only field ZerO and Stork(and bravo)
Brood War EICWoo Jung Ho, never forget.| Twitter: @BLinDRawR
MinixTheNerd
Profile Joined July 2019
200 Posts
February 28 2021 11:03 GMT
#37
looks like a zvz final to me
RowdierBob
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
Australia13409 Posts
February 28 2021 11:04 GMT
#38
On February 28 2021 19:52 Kanil wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 28 2021 19:48 RowdierBob wrote:
Bit of a miscue from Flash not saving himself for the Ace.


I mean, you don't want to lose 4-2 without having played your best player twice because you were saving him for a match that never ended up happening.

Isn’t that what Zero has done though?

I’m not sure this format is best. It’s a shame we can’t see the best two players in flash v zero here. Would’ve been epic.
"Terrans are pretty much space-Australians" - H
Zaibakk
Profile Joined May 2017
101 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-02-28 11:10:21
February 28 2021 11:06 GMT
#39
I think Flash's draft was perfect. First sacrifice Free vs Zero, then snipe Rush. If 5th game vs Rush was a win the match would be already over, without Zero even be able to play twice.
BLinD-RawR
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
ALLEYCAT BLUES50864 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-02-28 11:10:02
February 28 2021 11:09 GMT
#40
On February 28 2021 20:04 RowdierBob wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 28 2021 19:52 Kanil wrote:
On February 28 2021 19:48 RowdierBob wrote:
Bit of a miscue from Flash not saving himself for the Ace.


I mean, you don't want to lose 4-2 without having played your best player twice because you were saving him for a match that never ended up happening.

Isn’t that what Zero has done though?

I’m not sure this format is best. It’s a shame we can’t see the best two players in flash v zero here. Would’ve been epic.

unfortunately teams are too small for this format, I mean its fairly clear there arent enough players in the pool for a proper team league of this caliber, especially if teams get broken off after every season, were it the case that teams stuck together but their sponsors changed maybe we'd get a situation where during the off season teams could recruit some new blood.
Brood War EICWoo Jung Ho, never forget.| Twitter: @BLinDRawR
chongu
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Malaysia2597 Posts
February 28 2021 11:11 GMT
#41
FRIGGIN HECKKK!!!! BUTT-CLINCHING ACE MATCH INCOMING.
SC2 is to BW, what coke is to wine.
Pangpootata
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
1838 Posts
February 28 2021 11:13 GMT
#42
Action ace player for KT, never thought I'd ever see this
Sorusaba
Profile Joined October 2017
298 Posts
February 28 2021 11:19 GMT
#43
Wish the format allowed for some kind of super ace but this is still okay, at least it went all the way
nojok
Profile Joined May 2011
France15846 Posts
February 28 2021 11:25 GMT
#44
On February 28 2021 20:19 Sorusaba wrote:
Wish the format allowed for some kind of super ace but this is still okay, at least it went all the way

So many SC2 nation tournaments have been utterly boring because a single player could play 3 times in a bo5, glad they sticked to 2 times each max.
"Back then teams that won were credited, now it's called throw. I think it's sad." - Kuroky - Flap Flap Wings!
MinixTheNerd
Profile Joined July 2019
200 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-02-28 11:27:54
February 28 2021 11:27 GMT
#45
dang flash did not show up today, I hope his wrists get better
nojok
Profile Joined May 2011
France15846 Posts
February 28 2021 11:27 GMT
#46
Check opponent's upgrades : still 0 0, fight starts, 1 armor upgrade pops.
"Back then teams that won were credited, now it's called throw. I think it's sad." - Kuroky - Flap Flap Wings!
RowdierBob
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
Australia13409 Posts
February 28 2021 11:27 GMT
#47
On February 28 2021 20:06 Zaibakk wrote:
I think Flash's draft was perfect. First sacrifice Free vs Zero, then snipe Rush. If 5th game vs Rush was a win the match would be already over, without Zero even be able to play twice.

Hmmm he left his team exposed if they dropped that fifth or sixth set. I get the strategy but it was flawed
"Terrans are pretty much space-Australians" - H
chongu
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Malaysia2597 Posts
February 28 2021 11:29 GMT
#48
Stork the chronic complainer (last season) wins by being on the right team!
SC2 is to BW, what coke is to wine.
RowdierBob
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
Australia13409 Posts
February 28 2021 11:30 GMT
#49
On February 28 2021 20:09 BLinD-RawR wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 28 2021 20:04 RowdierBob wrote:
On February 28 2021 19:52 Kanil wrote:
On February 28 2021 19:48 RowdierBob wrote:
Bit of a miscue from Flash not saving himself for the Ace.


I mean, you don't want to lose 4-2 without having played your best player twice because you were saving him for a match that never ended up happening.

Isn’t that what Zero has done though?

I’m not sure this format is best. It’s a shame we can’t see the best two players in flash v zero here. Would’ve been epic.

unfortunately teams are too small for this format, I mean its fairly clear there arent enough players in the pool for a proper team league of this caliber, especially if teams get broken off after every season, were it the case that teams stuck together but their sponsors changed maybe we'd get a situation where during the off season teams could recruit some new blood.

I like the 3v3 fastest games from last time. Would’ve been nice to keep a 2v2 or 3v3 game.
"Terrans are pretty much space-Australians" - H
nojok
Profile Joined May 2011
France15846 Posts
February 28 2021 11:31 GMT
#50
On February 28 2021 20:30 RowdierBob wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 28 2021 20:09 BLinD-RawR wrote:
On February 28 2021 20:04 RowdierBob wrote:
On February 28 2021 19:52 Kanil wrote:
On February 28 2021 19:48 RowdierBob wrote:
Bit of a miscue from Flash not saving himself for the Ace.


I mean, you don't want to lose 4-2 without having played your best player twice because you were saving him for a match that never ended up happening.

Isn’t that what Zero has done though?

I’m not sure this format is best. It’s a shame we can’t see the best two players in flash v zero here. Would’ve been epic.

unfortunately teams are too small for this format, I mean its fairly clear there arent enough players in the pool for a proper team league of this caliber, especially if teams get broken off after every season, were it the case that teams stuck together but their sponsors changed maybe we'd get a situation where during the off season teams could recruit some new blood.

I like the 3v3 fastest games from last time. Would’ve been nice to keep a 2v2 or 3v3 game.

They were surprisingly good indeed.
"Back then teams that won were credited, now it's called throw. I think it's sad." - Kuroky - Flap Flap Wings!
itsdaniel
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Austria334 Posts
February 28 2021 11:48 GMT
#51
wrong strat gave LoginMedia the win... thank you ^^
OFFICIAL #1 STORK FAN // Stork:"This past week, there's a foreign fan named Daniel who got caught on the camera a few times. He came from Vienna in Austria to come and see me, and he wanted to be mentioned in one of my interviews."
Zaibakk
Profile Joined May 2017
101 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-02-28 11:58:52
February 28 2021 11:57 GMT
#52
So happy for Zero to still win tournaments uncontested, he is the new bonjua. Anyway the real winner today is Rush, winning both games with Action and Flash.
LpTraxamillion
Profile Joined October 2020
265 Posts
February 28 2021 12:05 GMT
#53
Zer0 #1
staatbauhaus
Profile Joined February 2020
99 Posts
February 28 2021 12:45 GMT
#54
wow Action just revealed Flash was only supposed to play one game today because his wrist is destroyed.
LpTraxamillion
Profile Joined October 2020
265 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-02-28 13:33:53
February 28 2021 13:33 GMT
#55
On February 28 2021 21:45 staatbauhaus wrote:
wow Action just revealed Flash was only supposed to play one game today because his wrist is destroyed.


Feel like it affected him in both his games; he was obviously trying to make them short

M3t4PhYzX
Profile Joined March 2019
Poland4253 Posts
February 28 2021 17:13 GMT
#56
GGs
yzak
Profile Joined February 2021
12 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-02-28 17:30:51
February 28 2021 17:25 GMT
#57
Zero is a beast. No one can stop this man in ASL.

action had a small window to do some real damage. Zero supply blocked at 50/50, but action just ran away and even let the ovie live. that sucked.
Lazyer
Profile Joined August 2011
United States370 Posts
February 28 2021 23:40 GMT
#58
Wow what an insane finals... Everyone is looking good, cannot wait for ASL11 if this is our talent pool.

G1 - Flash really weaseled his way out of that, Stork had his tanks surrounded just couldn't convert. Also Stork needs to gg earlier .
G2 - Poor Miso. The camera cut to esportsFund team just kek'ing was SO FUNNY.
G3 - Rush played super well. Had a stranglehold on Action and deflected the counter attacks well.
G4 - Free put up a damn good fight against Zero, storms were great. Really fun to see the Archon/zealot drop lmao. Too bad Zero is just unstoppable now days.
G5 - Rush looking like Fantasy with those vultures. Interesting bo from Flash but I suppose the execution was a little off.
G6 - Poor Miso.
G7 - Close game, could not imagine the nerves on both of these players. I would probably have a heart attack going into an Ace ZvZ.
Dante08
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
Singapore4148 Posts
March 01 2021 06:37 GMT
#59
God dam Flash lost a TvT what an upset. Zero looking super scary as usual.
yzak
Profile Joined February 2021
12 Posts
March 01 2021 06:50 GMT
#60
On March 01 2021 08:40 Plume wrote:
Wow what an insane finals... Everyone is looking good, cannot wait for ASL11 if this is our talent pool.

G1 - Flash really weaseled his way out of that, Stork had his tanks surrounded just couldn't convert. Also Stork needs to gg earlier .
G2 - Poor Miso. The camera cut to esportsFund team just kek'ing was SO FUNNY.
G3 - Rush played super well. Had a stranglehold on Action and deflected the counter attacks well.
G4 - Free put up a damn good fight against Zero, storms were great. Really fun to see the Archon/zealot drop lmao. Too bad Zero is just unstoppable now days.
G5 - Rush looking like Fantasy with those vultures. Interesting bo from Flash but I suppose the execution was a little off.
G6 - Poor Miso.
G7 - Close game, could not imagine the nerves on both of these players. I would probably have a heart attack going into an Ace ZvZ.


lol in the pre-game interview where both teams were talking trash, Miso said that out of all the esport fund players, Soulkey was the sweetest honey jam (easiest to beat). It was hilarious to see Soulkey stomp Miso twice =)
PVJ
Profile Blog Joined July 2012
Hungary5221 Posts
March 01 2021 22:08 GMT
#61
I really enjoyed this season a lot even if it might have been because I've been binge watching it for the past 4 days. It's somehow far different than SPL so it wasn't just nostalgia that made me like it. But there's something in the team format of 1v1 games that elevate each single match. It's great to have this back and hopefully BravO gets to play a game in S3!
The heart's eternal vow
Ideas
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
United States8168 Posts
March 02 2021 02:27 GMT
#62
Really fun finals despite the weird format sorta deflating the ace match by denying a flash vs zero game. Really hope flash's wrists heal up. Rush is looking fantastic lately, I think he might be ready to step up the the next level in ASL11. Queen continues to dominate, protoss continue to lose (although can't really blame either of them this time). With flash's wrists in this condition, I think it's pretty safe to consider queen the undisputed best player in the world right now?
Free Palestine
Lazyer
Profile Joined August 2011
United States370 Posts
March 02 2021 07:29 GMT
#63
On March 01 2021 15:50 yzak wrote:
Miso said that out of all the esport fund players, Soulkey was the sweetest honey jam (easiest to beat). It was hilarious to see Soulkey stomp Miso twice =)


LOL I don't watch live (well I also don't understand Korean), but this is hilarious context!!! Thanks!
M3t4PhYzX
Profile Joined March 2019
Poland4253 Posts
March 02 2021 08:39 GMT
#64
I hope they will make the teams a bit bigger and maybe make it a bo7 with 2 sets being 2v2

bo7 all 1v1 would also be cool, but I think the teams need to be bigger a bit

cool tournament overall
oxKnu
Profile Joined December 2017
1258 Posts
Last Edited: 2021-03-02 10:13:18
March 02 2021 10:12 GMT
#65
On March 02 2021 11:27 Ideas wrote:
With flash's wrists in this condition, I think it's pretty safe to consider queen the undisputed best player in the world right now?


I think this has been the case for the past year, maybe less.

This is great for one player though: Bisu.

That PvZ will finally give him great chances to win an ASL if the draw is not too dangerous.

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